New Haven Independent

Posted by: nell blydeux | October 30, 2005 7:22 PM

At 10:09 am on October 30th, I was in a classroom with a half-dozen teenagers. Team teaching with another grown-up on the various ways they can be lured into dangerous situations and what to do about them. It can be a mean world out there and we want the youth to feel they know where to turn to when they are overwhelmed.

Teachers (the grown-ups, the mature ones) know not to call down the hallway at someone. Reread your diary entry for 10/25. Are they the real names or do you make up code names?

It is not up to your pupils to teach you about gang violence. There are many ways that responsible adults can be brought up-to-date by other adults. Perhaps you should discuss this issue with the schools SRO.

I know that you do not teach at my daughter's school. Because with all the talks that are needed at a school there is no such thing as a great conversation about gangs. Hopes and dreams for the future and how to expand their horizons should not include advancing in a gang.

I also know that you cannot put the comments of the three "more talkative" kids in your advisory period into your blog. Why? You need both their permission and that of their parent and/or guardian.

What kind of an example are you? You take a job that should have included being at Parent Teacher meetings. How dare you write about one PTO meeting when you admit that you have blown them off for two years because you had something better to do? It seems to me that the only teacher at my child's school that wasn't at the first PTO meeting was the parttime teacher that was recovering from an accident. This sets an example by individual and by school team.

You teach children how to act by acting properly, how to speak by speaking correctly and how to dream by leading the way.

Posted by: ben | October 31, 2005 11:51 AM

Shorty Doo Wop,
An elaboration on my comments regarding your bathroom piece would have been very similar to the words of Ness.(See Above) If you are more concerned with the way the students affect you, than the way you affect your students than you are probably not cut out to be a teacher. Also...I do not believe that the discussion of gangs is an inappropriate one for the classroom if it is a part of the majority of your students' lives.(Same reason that sex-ed is taught.)
I do however believe that this discussion can not be adequately monitored by a person with complete ignorance to gravity of the situation. Are you going to know when one students words constitute something more serious than where their from?

Posted by: Miss | October 31, 2005 4:40 PM

Ben,
Thank you very much for writing back to me. Your comment was unsettling before without clarification. Now I understand what you're talking about.

I would like to disagree, though, when you say "If you are more concerned with the way the students affect you, than the way you affect your students than you are probably not cut out to be a teacher." I do fully believe that it is my job to teach students that we (people in general) are affected by each other's words and actions. I don't want them to believe that they can go through life doing whatever they please and speaking however they please without having any affect on anyone. Many of my students don't have strong relationships with their parents, who I would assume would do most of the teaching about behavior. I do fully believe that among the myriad of things I'm supposed to be teaching, appropriate behavior and compassion are right up there. The best way I know how to teach them about behavior and compassion is to *show* them when their words affect both me and other students--in positive and in negative ways.
You're right to point out that Ramon (not his real name--none of my students' names are real in this blog for obvious reasons) was standing up for Taquaya by prompting me to allow her to go to the bathroom. Yes, that is compassion. But there is more to the situation than what I wrote about--his tone of voice, his history of behavior in the classroom,etc...that made me react the way I did.

And please don't think that my concern is *more* about how they affect me than the way I affect them. I don't think that's a just assumption. On some days, behavior affects me more than other days. Maybe you can relate....? Ever have a bad day at work because someone spoke rudely to you? (And ever let that comment color the rest of your day, whether you wanted to let it or not? Same thing here.)

In response to your comment about my not being cut out to be a teacher...ouch. I'm sure you would feel the same if I--or anyone you don't know--were to say that about you and your profession. I'm not sure that it's a very fair comment to make. I will argue that no teacher ever knows if he or she can do it until he or she is actually in the trenches. This is a hard place to be. And it's hard to identify with--and therefore easy to critique--being in the trenches unless you've been in them yourself. I'm not saying you're not qualified to critique me. I *am* asking if it's fair to make that kind of statement when you're not closely involved with the situation.

Posted by: Joe | October 31, 2005 4:59 PM

Nell,

I am of the opinion that it is possible to have a conversation about gangs. As a techer in the classroom, I have a learned that conversations can be rewarding and beneficial regardless of the topic. Learning to express and communicate an idea are at the core of being well educated.

Perhaps the specific topic of gang violence is unpleasent to some, and certainly as a teacher I discourage my individual students from becoming involved in a gang. However, the fact that gangs exist and students do belong to them is real, and must be acknowledged and discussed. It is unfortunate that too many people in our society want to sugarcoat and protect our youth from the realities that they face on a daily basis. Life is hard, life is difficult. The most powerful and meanigful lessons and units that my students have encountered have been the ones that dealt with "hard history". The conversations around these difficult topics (i.e. lynching in the south, the holocaust, the eugenics movement, genocide in Rwanda), have been the most powerful and engaging. Students felt as if they had something at stake, something invested in the curriculum.

And yes, everyday I learn from my students. I learn a great deal from the knowledge and experience that they bring to the table. Education is not a one way street. In the classroom, learning is a community activity, I from studetns, students from me, and always everyone from the subject (that is the essence of the subject centered classroom).

Perhaps, before commenting on the ability of a teacher to teach effectively, one should not purport to understand education.

Posted by: Miss | October 31, 2005 6:47 PM

To Nell and Joe:

First, thank you both for responding. It's interesting for me to read two people's opinions who seem to be on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Second, I am in complete agreement with Joe about taking the opportunity to learn from students. In my classroom, the more students can bring themselves to a lesson, the better and more fulfilling the lesson will be. Rather than sitting back and accepting all of the stuff the teacher "dumps" into them, they have the opportunity to call on all of the experiences they've had to inform how they understand any new material the teacher presents. (See Friere's Banking concept of education...) It seems to me, as Joe said, that the more a student can invest him or herself in a curriculum, the more likely it is that the student will be aware and engaged in a classroom. In our school, a "great" conversation means one in which everyone listens to each other, backs up their statements with evidence--either textual or experiential--and one that involves the free exchange of questions and ideas between all members. It doesn't matter the topic.

Third, I am in complete agreement with Nell about the gang stuff. Students these days do lead very hard lives, and, as Joe has said, they are involved with gangs. That's the reality. I agree with you, Nell, when you say that educators have to provide students with the resources (adults/teachers/family) to turn to when they feel unsure about which path(s) to take.
But I'm not going to lie-- I am also incredulous at your assumption that I would be advocating for students to "expand their horizons" by "advancing in a gang." I don't know a single educator who would advocate for that. I certainly don't and never will.

Finally, here's a hope I will broadcast to the world concerning comments getting posted on this blog: My hope is that people feel free to write comments, to ask questions, to critique, and to challenge me and anyone else who writes in with comments. My hope is also, though, that we are all able to respond to each other in a respectful way, in a way that does not insult or belittle anyone. I don't stand for it in my classroom and I don't want to support it here, either.

Thank you again, both of you, for providing me (and hopefully others) with some more food for thought.

Posted by: Jen | November 1, 2005 11:27 AM

Everyone fights for respect. It's just that some people use words and some use actions.

Posted by: keith | November 1, 2005 11:35 AM

NELL- You worked in a class of a half-dozen students? Try teaching 27 on a daily basis and see what kind of impact that the experience has on you. You are totally out of touch with urban education and the hardships that exist. As city teachers, we have classrooms that are over-crowded with students. A majority of those students know little about life outside their respective neighborhoods as they do not have the means to travel or experience other places. The term “gang� that MISS uses has interpretations here in New Haven. The first is that of a stereotypical gang where members are fighting for respect and end up being a threat to themselves and the public because of illegal behaviors. The second interpretation uses a name such as the ‘Ville or the Tribe to represent a neighborhood in the city. Most of the citizens (both children and adults) associate themselves with the neighborhood in which they live. This is much like Americans, to speak in the vernacular, can say we “rep the U.S.A� while citizens of another country feel the same about their home. Most students make an association with the neighborhood where they live because they know nowhere else. This doesn’t mean that they are in gangs, just that they want to feel like part of a community. Unfortunately, due to the gang that uses the same name, students can come across as being involved in illegal behavior when in reality most are not.
Understanding where our students are coming from and being able to relate to them and empathize with them gains their trust and respect. Having a good rapport with your students allows you to help them make healthy decisions – both in and out of school.

BEN- I don’t care what profession you are in, there are always people or groups of people who will affect you – whether it be in a positive or negative way. It is human nature to be affected by this. Some people talk about their day at dinner while others may keep a journal or write a blog. It is unhealthy to not vent your frustrations. I don’t take Miss C’s column as her complaining about how her students affect her. She comes across as caring very much about her students and working hard to teach them – both about literature and life. I get satisfaction from people who mock teachers and belittle the difficulty of the job when they step into a classroom and try to control 27 kids, never mind teach them something. There is no way in hell you can do it without being affect in some way or another.

MISS – Keep working hard… the good days far outweigh the bad. Your students may tease you about being older and shorter than they are, but it is their way of forming a relationship with you outside of “you teach and I’ll listen�.

Posted by: MMDUKE | November 1, 2005 8:01 PM

I heartily concur with Keith's remarks. Learning is a 2-way sreet - and for people to want to go down that street they need to feel trust - so they can be open to what comes their way. I've been reading the articles in this site since its beginning, and it is apparent to me that Miss has been working extremely hard to develop that kind of relationship. I cannot believe that anyone who has been following these articles all this time could question either Miss' committment to, or feeling for her students.

Posted by: Aldon Hynes | November 2, 2005 9:38 AM

I’m a big fan of Gina’s writing and from that writing, what I assume to be her teaching style. What is it that makes someone’s writing great? This is an important starting point and one that I hope she discusses in her classes. I would like to suggest that there are three important factors in great writing which Gina has been touching upon.

Good writing is vivid; it is eye-catching. When I read Gina’s posts I get a strong sense of what it must be like to be in those halls and those classrooms. I hope her students are developing the skills to help people like me get a better view of what it is like to be growing up in a place like ‘the ville’.

Good writing is authentic. It doesn’t pretend to be something it isn’t or pretend to have knowledge it doesn’t have. It shows feelings, hopes, fears, and uncertainties. Gina’s writing sure feels authentic to me. The glimpses of students’ lives sure feel authentic to me. I know that high school students can smell false pretenses a mile away. Gina is courageous in her ability to be real with people, both in the classroom and in her postings here. As with vividness, I hope that her students are learning the courage to be real and talk about what is really going on, and not simply what others expect them to say.

It is this sort of authenticity that is a powerful antidote to the peer pressures that seem to drive a lot of gang activity. This leads to the most important part of good writing. Good writing should be life changing.

I hope that Gina’s students are having their lives changed in a positive way be reading stories about how other people have struggled in their lives and overcome adversity. I hope that Gina’s students are finding their voices and this self-expression will empower them to successes they haven’t even dreamed of. I also hope that all of us reading Gina’s posts will gain new insights into what really goes on in public high schools, understand more about the pressures today’s youth face and find new ways to help out.

This does not mean I am unable to be critical of her writing or teaching. At times it seems as if she doesn’t appreciate how difficult the choices some of her students have to make is. Her comment “It seems to me that fighting over respect is a counter-intuitive and counter-productive activity� seems to miss that the fight for respect is a core part of the human condition that we all participate in. Whether we are fighting for respect of our parents by getting married and bringing them grandchildren, fighting for respect of people around us by doing our job well or trying to make the world a better place, we all fight for respect.

Gina has my respect for her writing and her teaching. I hope her students can find new ways, perhaps through their writings to seek respect of the people around them. Finally, I hope we can all learn from one another.