New Haven Independent

Posted by: Daniel Sumrall | April 26, 2006 6:28 PM

Whoever the English teacher is for these kids deserves to be beaten with a thick stick.

Posted by: darnell | April 26, 2006 7:42 PM

We must put our youth first, that is why I proposed a comprehensive education and employment program for New Haven. Read http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2006/03/ceta_redux.html .

Posted by: JSJ | April 27, 2006 1:53 PM

"There's not going to be any way to unify on the lower level."

"Unify"? "Lower level"? What is this, Xerox Corp.?

Darnell, how do you introduce non-violent "normalcy" to kids whose vocabulary is studded with phrases like "clap you", "clashin'", "pledge loyalty" and "hoods jump"?

CETA is, in theory, a great idea. But given the voluntary nature of the program, how do you ensure that kids will take advantage of it?

Posted by: Lovebabz | April 27, 2006 7:30 PM

I really hate the fact that no one ever really listens to kids. How dare you insult them by dissing there conversation style. So by saying their english teacher ought to be physically harmed because they speak in a manner that is acceptable to their peers--does what for the overall problem? There is no one single answer, just like there isn't one type of kid. I do know that we need to allow them to express themselves in their own manner. And really HEAR them. I am so tired of so called know-it-all-adults putting their F-upped spin on everything pertaining to young urban youth--aka Black & Latino kids. Everybody has a plan, but nobody is doing the work. Everybody has a rant, or slant on how to "deal" with kids--but I don't see anyone out there meeting kids where they are. Talking to them and making friends with and mentoring them. We look for answers everywhere--as if some magic program exists out there to cure all the wrongs and ills of teenage angst--or better still dangerous Black and Latino kids with nothing on their minds but murder. Talk is cheap! If you really want to help kids- go where they are and face them and engage them and love them. Volunteer in a classroom on a regular basis, adopt some kids from DCF, become a foster parent, start a mentoring program, give money to existing youth serving organizations so they can do MORE. But please stop talking Sh--t!

Posted by: darnell | April 27, 2006 9:03 PM

JSJ,

These kids have their own language, music, dress, just like we did when we were 14 yrs old. I don't think it is a reflection on the skills of their teachers. I must admit, I didn't understand half of what was printed, but my 14 year speaks the same language, to them. At home it's a different story, and whenever he slips into that street vernacular, he gets a kick slap across the back of the head, and a reminder of where he is.

That being said, yes, CETA is a theory, as all ideas are at the beginning. I don't know if you are old enough to remember the old CETA program, but in those days, we were plenty busy during the summer, to busy to get into any real trouble. First we were making the money, then spending it. The problem was that CETA was never tied into anyting else, like grades and school attendance. It was a big society make work program. I say, let's do it again, tie it to good behavior, grades, attendance, and better yet, don't raise any additional funds. Let's use what we already have, reduce the overall state budget by 0.054%.

The kids will flock to this program. I could give you names of 300 kids right now who are begging for jobs and the hope for a future through college.

All big things start as dreams.

Posted by: JSJ | April 28, 2006 7:38 AM

Darnell,

I hope you & Babz haven't misunderstood me- my question concerns the actual content of what they're saying; that, at least to me, indicates trouble. Street vernacular, fine. Dialect of violence, not fine.

I live in the Tre. I see the kids, I talk with them, I see how they dress, who their friends are and what they're listening to. And that's the lighter side of it.

On the darker side, I've seen them running from bullets at 11:30 at night. Now, how are we going to raise kids that can handle the ongoing challenges of life- into adulthood- and thrive!- when they're out in groups of 20 eight- to sixteen-year olds at 11:30 at night thinking someone wants to kill them? Try wrapping your brain around that one!

I want to know about that group of 300 kids, Darnell. I want everyone to know about them. I wish them success, achievement way beyond their wildest dreams and I hope they'll want to serve as role models so that no other kids in their neighborhood think that the best they can hope for in life is to join a group, wear the colors and not get hood jumped.

Posted by: Ned | April 28, 2006 8:23 AM

I always wondered if these kids use the vernacular at home or at job interviews (in which case they would be at an automatic disadvantage vs. someone speaking standard English).
If these kids had other options, like wealthy kids, such as summer study abroad, connections to get summer jobs and the certainty of financial assistance for college, I think the problems would all evaporate; however, with 300+ billion dollars spent killing people in Iraq, where's the money going to come from?? Also, if these kids had a chance to do something better, than what is currently offered to them (apparently very little) who would fill all of the for profit prison beds??? The kid who mentioned Scarface, brought up a good point in that a lot of the violence is directly related to the "Drug War," aka, Prohibition - same story from a different era.
Also check out the book: The Nurture Myth. An interesting take on what makes good kids go bad.

Posted by: darnell | April 28, 2006 12:14 PM

Babes,

Sistergirl, you know I love you, so please don't take anything I may say personally. You, as an alderperson, must take responsiblity for what is happening on the streets and in our schools. While you guys sat around and argud for months about who would be president of the Board of Alderman, our kids were dropping out of school and shooting themslves to pieces. While the Mayor proposes a new budget that raises taxes by 9%, including a more than $20,000 raise for one of his staff people, our kids were scoring less than 50% on the CAPT tests. Where is the real commitment from the Board. You guys talk a good game, you meet with kids to hear their grips, and then you go back to fighting your usual political battles, while an entire generation of kids drown. Besides my own children, I have scores of nephews and neices I mentor. But it is difficult, when your 17 newphew comes to you asking for assistance to get a job, and you can't direct him anywhere, because our leaders have failed to provide leadership. When I was at CAA, I started and grew a youth academic and job program that started with 10 kids, and grew to 87 over three years. I made a commitment to redistribute our funding to provide for this initiative. Then, politicians came in and put their kids in the program,effectively killing it.

You may be tired of hearing the sh--, but as a leader, we are going to keep pushing you to do the right thing. There is no reason why in a city with a budget of over $500 million, we should be only putting several hundred kids to work. There is no reason why with such a bloated Board of Ed budget, our kids are failing miserably.

If you can't get it done, move out of the way and let someone else try.

You know I love you.

Posted by: Daniel Sumrall | April 28, 2006 12:45 PM

The content of what these kids have said is strong. They demonstrate a genuine grasp of their social context and they are obviously seriously thinking about their lives.

No one, Babz, is picking on the kids so just cool it. I teach English at the collegiate level and I've taught at the high school level. All of my students (white, Latino, African American, and ESL students) are routinely unable to speak properly. If you can't speak properly then chances are you can't write properly, which means your upward mobility is dampened.

You can be street all you want in your personal interactions but when it comes to communicating in a broader social context you need to know how to properly express yourself.

Posted by: Lovebabz | April 28, 2006 3:02 PM

What the hell is standard english? Are you kidding? This ain't about speaking english. These kids would have the same advantages if we have the will to make it so. Is this a class issue...yes! Is this a race issue...yes! You seem to overlook the fact that urban youth aka Black and Latino Youth drive the fashion and entertainment industry. Everybody from The Donald to Martha Stewart is hangin' with and being seen with Rappers, Hip Hop artists, B-Ballers and other professional athletes of merrit. It has always been way cool to be on the edge and Black and Latino Youth have always lead the way. Cool began with Black and Latino Youth. What is twisted is the fact that in an effort to make money off "Being Cool" we have allowed things to go too far. I hate the fact that people always believe that where a kid is from is a given disadvantage. It is not! Affluent kids are at-risk too! Those Columbine kids were affluent kids. We focus on poor kids because--one, its easier and, two, poor people are always penalized for being poor. Iraq is a good example of turf wars--and yet we don't see it that way at all. Somehow youth violence in our backyard looks different than violence a world away and we are willing to help a world away. Do you think Iraqi youth want to fight everyday? Don't you think they want to go school and have a decent place to hang out, maybe a decent after-school gig to keep a little pocket money in their hands. Not so simple is it?-- but yet we are so ready to wrap our brains around violence in other places, but fail to understand it right here. These kids aren't violent because they are born that way, but because violence is an acceptable way to settle a dispute. History bears this out over and over and over and over again! Why is this so hard to figure out. Do we really think that kids could settle their disputes any better than a society full of the best and brightest minds in the world. Come on, the movies just sells us back what we're already doing and have done...with better clothes and lighting.

Posted by: darnell | April 28, 2006 10:46 PM

Ned,

Bravo!!!

Posted by: darnell | April 29, 2006 11:03 AM

Babz,

You know I love you sistergirl, so please don't take anything I say personally.

First, I must agree with you on the violence thing. If our leaders are talking about using violence on a daily basis, why not our youth. Bush and Cheney make it cool to "bust a cap in your a--". Wiseguys are cool, rappers get rich through songs about violence. But it still doesn't make it right.

My concern, is that our "leadership" have failed miserably, and the kids are smart enough to see that these adults don't give a damn. While you, the Board of Aldermen, a good part of 2005 and 2006 fighting over who would be Board President, kids were dropping out of school, failing the CAPTs, and not getting jobs. You guys talk a good game, but we don't see any results. This summer, 75% of our kids won't have jobs, and while the city burns, somebody continues to fiddle.

Raise our taxes by 9%, yet 35% of the kids at Hillhouse don't graduate. That is a serious system problem, and like it or not, you are part of the system.

I have scores of nephews and nieces who are now teenagers, and whenever I visit, the first thing they say is that they need a job. I have bought them job hunting, I have bought them to the library to use the computers. Nothing. All the while, you guys continue to create city jobs that go to suburbanites. You pass a budget that has exorbinant raises for city staffers (several people on the Mayor's staff are getting $20,000 + raises). And, guess what, how many Aldermen either work for the city, the Board of education, or have a immediate relative who does?

If you guys can't get the job done, then move aside for someone else to try.

Posted by: Lovebabz | April 29, 2006 4:41 PM

Hey Daniel,

You are picking on Black and Latino kids and I will not cool it--your not the boss of me!. I too teach on the college level and I teach high school students---kids who are on probation and parole. Learning english isn't about speaking english--it is about learning to communicate with the masses here in the USA. However english is not the "official language" it is not written into the constitution, or the bill of rights as such. When these kids interview for jobs they know what to do--many of them work or have worked. They were sharing their thoughts about what was happening in their neighborhood, not getting ready for a job interview. You, like a lot of well meaning folks missed the magic. These kids shared something that was important to them--something that no one ever asked them about, and they answered in their own words, in their own style with as much dignity and grace as any could. So, I am sure in your world everyone speaks the King's english--but last time I checked, America is not run by a monarchy--and George W. Bush...well you know where I am going with this. I guess we all can't be as well spoken as our President.

Posted by: Jeff Klaus | May 1, 2006 3:30 PM

LoveBabz,

Except for being an entertainer, a profession in which only one out of several thousand can make a decent living, can you think of another area of employment where street lingo is acceptable? The only area that I know of is manual labor, an occupation where speaking or using your brain is not what you are being paid to do. I am sure that you are familiar with the statistics which point out the income differential between someone with a high school diploma, an undergrad degree, and a grad degree.

Instead of focusing on changing the "will" of society to accept these kids and their vernacular, wouldn't it be more productive for you to use your formidable power as an elected official to call for our public education system to meet these kids where they live, and lift them up towards college and a better future?

Posted by: Lovebabz | May 2, 2006 1:27 AM

You are missing the point. The reporter was talking to them on their time, on their turf. This wasn't an article about jobs. It was about what was going on in their neighborhood. If you soley focus on how something was said rather than what was said --you missed the whole point. Listen everyone speaks street lingo--or want to. Everyone wants to be hip and cool. Do I think we have an education crisis...YES. But that is just one part of the puzzle and it is big and wide and overwhelming. There is no either, or--for me it is both. I do want to change the "will" of society and I do press for a better education system. If you want to be right about your point of view---there you go---YOUR RIGHT! Now what has changed now that you are right? What have you done to make this better. What kid have you mentored. Oh yeah leave it to the the teachers, or their parents. Yeah, I know, sit on the sidelines and quote statistics. When was the last time you volunteered to tutor or help a teacher. So how many Board of Education meetings did you make? The differnce you can make isn't some grand sweeping gesture. It is the time you give---pick one aspect of the bigger problem and make that your life's work. For me--I hate the fact that there are children without a home and family--that is why my husband and I adopted 4 kids--I am lobbying for one more. The thought that there is a child out there without a mother and father rocks my soul and I rest uneasy. And I am not talking about kids from a foreign country--God knows they need homes too--but kids that are thrown away right here--in CT.

As for you Darnell, I get you need to drum up support. Listen, I've been elected twice, I know what it takes and I understand you need to try to make yourself out to be the lone voice for justice, change and innovation, regardless of how hollow it rings, you gotta do it. I know it is hard for you to speak on issues that you have no real grasp of. And Yep, there are a few of us that work for the Board of Education, Charlie Blango works in Truancy--you know making sure kids get to school and if not going to their homes and finding why they aren't in school. Katrina Jones, Adult Education--works to get kids into college with GED's and Adult Ed High School Credits and Me, I work at Adult Education--working with students who are on parole and probabtion. No one else works with these kids--in all of New Haven. Toni Thorpe--a retired DCF social worker and myself see about 75 kids each semester who are on parole or probation. We work with the Courts, probabtion--both juvenile and adult to help ensure that they get their education and jobs and other support services. I got this job, because Toni Walker asked me to pull together a pilot program that would address this population--I did. She had asked Toni Thorpe too who had just retired from DCF working directly with children who were older in the system. Adult Education started seeing increased numbers of students who were on probabtion and parole who could not for whatever reasons go back to their High School. We created a program that functioned like a safety net--linking students to supportive programs and jobs. I would suspect we all would be doing this work even if we weren't Aldermen--we are not getting rich--we're not even well paid--I work part-time 10-19 hrs per week--no benefits. I love it and I love my students.

About the budget, well it is what it is. We are working hard and long to be responsible to New Haven. CT is dependent on property taxes to fund education. Until we have property tax reform, the only way to raise money is raise taxes. I have had the pleasure of traveling to every state in the US except Alaska and Hawaii--I hope to go to Alaska in June. I have seen what cities and towns are up against--you haven't seen poor until you spend time in Appalachia, or low-country--Mississippi. I have travelled abroad and have seen unimaginable proverty. But New Haven with all its ills and problems and crazy people still is a wonderful place. A very manageable place. So while you are lamenting all her ills and problems and dissing those of us that serve, think about your role in all of this and what you could be doing instead of bitching.

Keep the faith.

Posted by: Jeff | May 4, 2006 8:44 AM

Babz,
I don't think I am missing the point. The point is that these kids shouldn't have to grow up in New Haven, CT. and have to worry about turf wars and who gets shot. The point is that education breaks the cycle of poverty. It isn't just part of the puzzle, it is the entire solution to the puzzle!! The point is that the political leadership has the medicine, but they aren't willing to distribute it to the children. Part of what WE have done together to make this better is to start to talk about it. The next step is to get more people involved in the conversation. The broader this conversation becomes, the more relevant it is to the political process. If our current leaders aren't going to listen to the arguments, aren't going to act with any sense of urgency, are satisfied with maintaining the status quo, are more interested in concocting short-term fixes that treat symptoms and not causes,...then maybe it's time for someone else to step up to the plate and try to win the game. Also I love your passion on these issues, it's not typical for a politician to wear their heart on their sleeve. I also agree that you can't simply yell from the sidelines, you need to walk the talk and get personally involved. Lots of us do.

Posted by: Tiffany | May 23, 2006 9:41 AM

The community itself isn't doing anything to help or try to prevent the gang violence. All the community does is critiscize the youth. The community is of no holp at all.

Posted by: Nae-Ez | June 20, 2006 4:05 PM

i agree 100% with lovebabz. Im a 14 year old child raised in the TRE and when its time for job interviews we know how to dress and speak but when something so devistating happens like this we say whats on our mind the way we please. So please dont take this personally anyone but stop being racist.Black people out there these days act like they dont know where the came from we had to speak our own language for us to be free and we're still not all the way free but we were on our way till PEOPLE judge us by the way we speak. Now all that was proper talk now this is hood talk. so if u think u da shyt u aint dont judge me cuz u dont kno me get a lyfe.jus cuz u proly could afford to send ya kidz to private high skoolz n shyt ya try to look down on us it aint goin down like dat well atleast i aint goin 4 dat.so all of dat was 4 ya 2 no dat we been livin in this community 4 a minute(LONG TIME) now and we jus try to have fun with our friends but by ya sayin this stuff kids/teens think its too late to change and do wat dey believe in.

Posted by: Motivation | September 3, 2006 4:53 PM

The content of what these kids have said is strong. They demonstrate a genuine grasp of their social context and they are obviously seriously thinking about their lives.

No one, Babz, is picking on the kids so just cool it. I teach English at the collegiate level and I've taught at the high school level. All of my students (white, Latino, African American, and ESL students) are routinely unable to speak properly. If you can't speak properly then chances are you can't write properly, which means your upward mobility is dampened.

You can be street all you want in your personal interactions but when it comes to communicating in a broader social context you need to know how to properly express yourself.