New Haven Independent

Posted by: concernedinct | November 16, 2006 3:32 PM

Tax and Spend, no wonder John D could not get elected Gov. We have been trying to sell our house in New haven for 6 months, it is new construction, only five years old. No takers, folks are too afraid of the taxes in New haven. The police spend 3 quarters of their overtime budget in the first quarter of the year. Now they want to hire another 45 cops. Don't get me wrong, I respect the police and the jobs they do, I have several relatives, and many friends who are on the force. But come on, who is supposed to pay for this? What cuts will be made in he city budget to accomodate this request? My bet is that there will notbe cuts, but instead an increase in taxes.

When are folks going to say enough is enough? We have already, and we are running as quick as we can, as soon as the house is sold.

Posted by: concerned in ct | November 16, 2006 3:37 PM

By the way, Tax and Spend John D wants to expand the police dept by 81 people. Police statrt at $45,000. Total cost, $3,645,000. WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR THIS????

Posted by: charlie | November 16, 2006 3:53 PM

What's wrong with going after low-level street criminals? A criminal is a criminal. In my opinion, cops should be deployed to arrest anyone driving more than 5 miles over the speed limit.

Posted by: Esbe | November 16, 2006 4:49 PM

Excellent. More police and a renewed emphasis on real community policing is exactly what the city needs. If current trends in the perception of crime continued without a reaction from the city, much of what DeStefano has accomplished here would be at risk.

Consider also that Yale has a large force of sworn police officers (about the size of Hamden's entire police force, if I recall correctly.) So the combined New Haven/Yale force will be very much larger than in any other CT city.

Now, we need some real outreach to youth -- more summer programs and a way to get kids to believe in their own future.

Posted by: me | November 16, 2006 5:17 PM

Why is it that Chief Norwood in Bridgeport has a successful community policing program with the same number of cops the NHPD has now? Maybe the NHPD is mismanaged, anyone ever think of that?

Posted by: concerned in ct | November 16, 2006 5:36 PM

Hey, don't forget, that $3.6 million is salaries only, it doesn't include the fringe benefits, such as health, dental, life insurance, disbility, etc. These costs can easlity top $1.5 million. Total, at least $5 million. WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR THIS?????

Posted by: Carol Evans | November 16, 2006 6:06 PM

11-16-06
We need to stop blaming the police and other organziations, and start being real parents. we all know that these kids are not being raised right. why should the police have to take on you as a parent job. if some of you stop getting high and getting high right with your child. then there wouldnt be a problem. as a black female I get so sick and tired of you blaming the police. do you own job. or dont have no kids. thats all to it.
Carol Taylor-Evans

Posted by: Carol Evans | November 16, 2006 6:07 PM

11-16-06
We need to stop blaming the police and other organziations, and start being real parents. we all know that these kids are not being raised right. why should the police have to take on you as a parent job. if some of you stop getting high and getting high right with your child. then there wouldnt be a problem. as a black female I get so sick and tired of you blaming the police. do you own job. or dont have no kids. thats all to it.
Carol Taylor-Evans

Posted by: cedar hill resident | November 16, 2006 6:32 PM

I am dancing!! I just HOPE that my area gets some of these police! And not just one that comes in the area for five min, and then spends the rest of the time somewhere else. I HOPE that they are monitored on where they spend there time. I am HOPING that the higher crime areas with the drug dealers are the areas that get some officers. I am HOPING that instead of guarding the better areas from the bad areas they realize that you need to get rid of the crime in the bad areas and then the good areas will be safe. I know that I used the word hope a lot but sometimes that is all we have left is hope.

The youth really is a big issue in my area, it is so scary to think that children are even thinking in such violent ways. The parents of these children need to start being held accountable for some of there actions start fining them, give them a day in jail, make them do community work, better yet make the kids that are out there causing trouble have to do community work in the streets were they live. Have them pick up the trash let them learn a little respect for the place they live in. Lack of disapline The basic morals are not taught at home anymore. They have no idea what thank you and please are. There are no after school programs. These children have no goals. No dreams. No hope. I can hear it now, it is the citys fault. COME ON you can go to any poor area in the country and see bad kids running the streets but among those bad kids are good kids living right next door why are they good they live in the same area they have the same income go to the same schools. It is the parents sometimes I will admit you as parent can only do so much but come on I know if my kids are up to no good! When you go up to a parent and tell I saw your child doing something bad THEY GET MAD AT YOU ! I was just trying to help I thought you would care to know that your kid is hanging out with bad kids doing bad things. And I am the bad neighbor for caring!!

COMMUNITY!!! When I was growing up in New Haven if I did something wrong I knew that it was going to get back to my parents because neighbors use to care about eachother!! They use to look out for eachother. Now my neighbors use the kids in there crimes and the neighbors are look outs for the drug dealers it is not just New Haven it is the worlds lack of caring for one another! ok I better stop I can go on for pages. :0

Posted by: Yair | November 16, 2006 8:13 PM

1. ConcernedinCT: if there's anything that could hurt the housing market in New Haven, as compared with the burbs, it is crime, not taxes. Spending money to reduce crime is a very good investment.



2. About that money: The "starve government" Republicans are responsible for having removed all the federal support of community policing in the first place -- not to save it, but to send it right to Iraq. Now that the Democrats have some measure of power, shouldn't we be able to see some of that federal support come back? Joe L., our duly elected Senator: how about it?

Posted by: Bruce | November 16, 2006 8:19 PM

ConcernedInCT: People may be afraid of taxes, but they're more afraid of getting mugged or shot. I won't deny that Mr. Destefano has a spending habit that needs professional treatment, but we need to get rid of our reputation as a dangerous city.

Posted by: concerned in ct | November 17, 2006 2:12 AM

I've lived in New Haven a good part of my life. Lived in other large cities, including LA, Greensboro, NC, Atlanta. What reputation as a dangerous city? Come on, New Haven does not have a reputation as a dangerous city any more than any other major metropolitan region, except maybe in the imagination of some folks that have never experienced the "dangerous city". I ask again, who will pay for this $5 million + initiative. Bruce, do you own a house in this "dangerous city"? Do you pay auto taxes to this "dangerous city"? If so, and you are willing to pay the tab, more power to you. I'm not, I work to hard to give more away. I'm done. You stay, you pay, and more power to you.

Posted by: concerned in ct | November 17, 2006 11:22 AM

GOOD NEW FOLKS. To all of you "crime fighters" out there, the city is already $5mill over its projected budget, and Big John wants to add another $1mill a year for more cops. Let me see if I understand this correctly.

1. The city is losing population each year (according to the census)
2. Crime rates are supposingly dropping every year (according to Big John and the police department)
3. Taxes were raised last year
4. The city is over budget
5. Big John wants to add another $5 mill + to the budget over the next 3 years (conveniently just before the next gov election, so that he can be called "Mr. Crimefighter")

And all you guys agree with this logic?

You can stay and pay, more power to you.

Posted by: Cedar Hill Resident | November 17, 2006 1:11 PM

I love this city and yes things need to change on alot of levels. There are alot of things that I am not happy with. But if I have to pay a little more to get the crime out then so be it. But I still think that the youth issue is something that needs to be addressed as well and I am going to say it again if these kids parents cared they may not be acting the way they are. We make men go to anger management class in DVS cases. These children are in some kind of neglectful situation. If they get in trouble how about the child and at least one parent must go to family classes. Anything that will teach them that what they are doing is wrong. The law and the parents are not punishing them. So how are they to learn it is wrong??? I am serious how??? You can't blame them if no one is teaching them.

Posted by: concerned in ct | November 17, 2006 1:22 PM

Hey Paul,

Love your work, but come on, there is nothing bold about spending other peoples money. We had community policing in the past with a smaller police force, why can't we do it again? As a poster wrote earlier, someone is mismanaging something somewhere.

Building armies and police forces does not change society ills, all it does is put more non violent offenders in jail. You know once they add police, they have to increase arrest rates to justify their existence, so folks jay walking will be subject to harrassment. I know some of you folks will say, "they are jaywalking, they are breaking the law, so sure they should be harrassed". But really, is Big Brother the kind of world we want to live in. Everybody breaks some sort of law during their everyday travels through this world, wehter is crossing against the light, driving 2 miles above the speed limit, double parking for five minutes while we go into City Hall to pay that parking ticket. Where will we draw the limits?

If you truly believe that the Republicans are wrong-headed for spending so much for the military build up, while cutting soical services, what makes the paramilitary build up in New Haven so right?

Posted by: charlie | November 17, 2006 1:24 PM

Actually, the city is massively gaining in population each year according to the census. There was a drop in population after the 1990 census, but the population bottomed out in 1995 and has been growing rapidly since (and VERY rapidly since about 2001). If you don't believe this, compare Fair Haven five years ago with Fair Haven now. There are at least 10,000 more immigrants living there now than five years ago.

Also, crime rates are indeed dropping. And New Haven is far from a "dangerous city" - it's actually one of the safest cities in the country. Of course, there are a few bad neighborhoods that can be unsafe. But overall, compared with anywhere else in the U.S., the city is very safe. Of course, if the city can afford it, which it probably can, more police never hurts!

Posted by: concerned in ct | November 17, 2006 7:36 PM

So Charlei, do you think the city can afford it?

Posted by: Yo Mamma | November 17, 2006 8:05 PM

First of all you do not need 490 cops in a city the size of New Haven. Also, as stated above, New Haven is supplemented by a fairly good size police force, YALE. Manage and deploy your resources better, that will solve the probrem. Secondly, unless everyone is an idiot they should know that the City has no intention of hiring that many police officers. They need an excuse to raise taxes to cover the illegally spent money from last year that was never authorized to be spent and continue the waste of money due to the morons that run most of the City departments. How do you accomplish this, scare the public into thinking they need more cops than any other city their size so you can raise taxes through the roof and stave off the political backlash. In the end they will never hire that many cops but they will still raise the shit out of your taxes. SCARE THE PEOPLE, GET WHAT YOU WANT, IT'S CALLED GEORGE BUSH POLITICS!!!

Posted by: JPE | November 18, 2006 1:17 AM

As far as I can tell the cops in this city don’t really care. I live above dunkin donuts and the cops are in there none stop. Every Thursday - Sunday people park all over the place on my street in front of fire hydrants, on the side walk, in no parking zones, basically any where they want. If I say anything to them they turn there backs and tell me to call the station. If they just ticket these please they could pay there salaries 10 fold but I guess the bars pay them over time to they look the other way. As for taxes I think they will always be high in a city where 60% of the land is non-profit and exempt from chipping in.

Posted by: Ned | November 18, 2006 10:02 AM

According to the most recent U.S. census estimate, (www.census.gov) New Haven has added only an estimated 1165 people. So, unless there are thousands of undocumented immigrants the population of New Haven has hardly grown at all. Also, I'd have to agree with Bruce that crime would make me leave the city faster than an increase in taxes would (although the added cost of commuting might equal a tax increase). I'm already looking over my shoulder at night, when I walk my dog, and crossing the street to avoid strangers, and unfortunately "kids" on bicycles are strictly avoided. It sucks. Is DeStefano repaying the "debt" to the union representing New Haven police, for their endorsement of his gubernatorial candidacy?

Posted by: cedar hill resident | November 18, 2006 10:28 AM

We have 409 officers, lets take 109 for in house work; because they have a lot of civilian people working in there as well that covers the admin end of it.
So you have 300 officers about 100 per shift
10 policing districts
at least 3 of those districts have the Yale Police forces working in them to.
Now you take that 100 pre shift and divide it by the 10 districts and we should have 10 officers per district pre shift

If you take a few officers from the 3 district that are covered by the Yale police as well and you have more in the areas that need them.
So most of the time each community Should have at least one officer in it. Of course unless something big has happened RIGHT???
Yet when I have talked to people they all said they have at the most seen 0 officers.
My point at the meeting that we had with the police is if you go downtown on a Friday and Saturday night and stand on church and chapel you can count a cop car driving by at least every 3 to 4 mins. (I did it) and then go to the drug areas on a Friday and Saturday night and not even see one!

Someone above posted management!! that is one of the problems.

I called the police last night about a drug transaction on my street they were dealing for at least a 1/2 hour when I called it in. I gave the woman the plate number, at the end of the call I asked for her ID number and then asked her to repeat the plate number I gave her she couldn’t??? She did not even record my call!! Could that be why the crime rate is down!!

Posted by: BFair | November 19, 2006 11:24 AM

Yes, let's blame the "BAD"kids and the"BAD" parents for why New HAven is under seige and why taxes must continually be raised.Taxes must continually be raised because the bulk of the workers who are taking home fat paychecks do not live in this "BAD" city and those who do live in areas where they can distance themselves from the city's social ills.(Westville, Amity,Prospect Hill etc. Quite a few of the big paychecks are going to people who live outside of New HAven and they pay no taxes to the "BAD" city of New Haven. They can afford to live in the suburbs because they are making so much money in "BAD and DANGEROUS" New Haven.FACT: There is high unemployment among New Haven residents. I am always amazed at how New Haven is portrayed as this "BAD and DANGEROUS" city yet people from the "SAFE SUBURBS" come here and work everyday and fill the clubs and restuarants every weekend. A huge problem is that certain areas of New Haven are built up while others are left to crumble. The only plan that "Big John" can cristalize to reduce crime is to deploy more officers to the streets; officers who have no respect for the community members, who contain certain neighborhoods harrassing youth and then you wonder why the youth are so angry. As a community there is a need to empathize, not criticize those "BAD" parents that are forced to work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet. There are many parents out there working their butts off so they can pay the out of control rents and taxes in this city and yes, some of them will lose control of their kids and would be amazed at what their kids get into. Take my word for it there are also parents out there who think their children are perfect little angels who would also be surprised at what their kids are doing. What is needed in New Haven is a sense of community and a mayor and city officials who care about those whom they have PLEDGED to SERVE and PROTECT.More cops, more taxes as a solution to the city ills does not come from a creative force, it comes from one that lacks creativity and sensitivity to the needs of the community.Our city was so much better off when everyone felt connected to each other. Take a look at who has been running the city for over a decade and their lies the starting point of the problem. John D may not be a "BAD" person but in my opinion he lacks the durabilty, creativity and sensitivity to govern and bring together a city that constitutes affluence alongside abject poverty and he refuses to listen to the voices of the oppressed segments of the city. Those factors lend itself to "BAD AND DANGEROUS" government.

Posted by: cedar hill resident | November 19, 2006 2:20 PM

Ok a little back ground
I live in the city. I live in one of those bad areas! I am a single mother of 2 that works 2 jobs sometimes 3. And I deal with kids that slice my tires steal my plates I have had sevearl windows broken I have seen peoples homes spray painted and shoot at with BB guns my sons friends have been mugged coming home from school and they are out on the streets at 1 in the morning dealing drugs at the age of 13. And I as a concerned HUMAN have no right to say that the parents of these children may not be putting the time in?? Are your children on the streets at 1 in the morning?? I have had my share of problems with keeping my kids with a good crowd, I know how hard it is. But I will NEVER USE my station in life as an excuse.I will never let my children learn that it is an excuse to not try to make a better life for them selves. I as a parent have taught my children that they do not want to have to work multiple jobs to feed there families. I take the time out to get them in the programs that are out there and teach them that education is a way out.
On top of my jobs and my kids I am a member of several community groups who's goal is to make it a safer place to live for these same bad children. I have had these same kids come up to us and ask us why are you planting flowers and picking up the trash, is the city paying you?? We tell them no, just because we are in a poor area does not mean that we do not deserve to live in a nice looking area. 9 out of 10 times these children will start helping us. For the longest time they did not respect our community work but years later they are starting to learn that it is ok to care about others. We have given the papers and info to there parents on programs that the city has to keep them busy and to better there lives. Which they are not taken advantage of. We have gotten help for the kids only for the parents to pull them out. These children are our groups MAIN REASON for all the work we do. We are fighting for some kind of grant money to start a program in our area for these children. My point was that we are going to spend this money on police to stop crime but we need to remember that the children that are in these areas need help to. Some times when people are in a situations for a long time they do not relize that it is not good or right (this is from my own experices that I speak) We may not save all these children but if we can save a few how wonderful would that be. We need to educate the children but we need to educate the parents to.
It takes a village to raise a child!
I own my own home it is meager and a bit of a whole in the wall but I have to pay the outrages property taxes to. My taxes are more then my mortgage. So I am feeling the crunch to. But my hope is that in the long run that all the work and money being put into new haven will attract jobs and companies that will pay taxes.

Posted by: Bruce | November 20, 2006 12:24 AM

CinCT: Yes I own a house and a car in this city. No I'm not willing to foot the bill. I'm getting out of here as soon as I find a house. I pay way too much to deal with the muggings and danger people face here daily. I live in East Rock, which is probably considered one of the safest neighborhoods in the city. Still, my car has been broken into twice, my next door neighbors were held up at gunpoint on their front porch, and my friend got knocked off his bike and robbed on the way home. That's just the start of it. If I'm going to be paying among the highest taxes in the state, I might as well live in a safe place.


Like I said before, I will not argue that Destefano is a tax and spend Dem. He would be buying ice cream cones for 10 year olds on my dime if they could vote. But we need to keep things safe or the exodus will continue.

Posted by: me | November 20, 2006 2:28 AM

All of you should wake up! In 2003 the city boasted the lowest crime rate in 40 years, and the PD had only a handful more cops than it has today. Then Chief Wearing retired and Chief Ortiz took over, immediately turning the PD upside through "black friday" transfers and forcing good cops to retire rather than deal with his nonsense. Ask yourselves what is different about the PD now than in 2003. IT IS BEING MISMANAGED. Don't hire 100 more cops, hire 1 good chief.

Posted by: concerned in ct | November 20, 2006 11:59 AM

Bruce wrote : "Like I said before, I will not argue that Destefano is a tax and spend Dem. He would be buying ice cream cones for 10 year olds on my dime if they could vote. But we need to keep things safe or the exodus will continue."

LOL, now, that is funny, and very true.