New Haven Independent

Posted by: charlie | January 2, 2007 1:27 PM

How about doing a few stories about the dozens of teenagers being mutilated and killed in car accidents around the state every week, including two on I-91 North last week? A couple of muggings in a neighborhood of thousands of residents is nothing by comparison. If you are not into drug dealing, you're hundreds of times more likely to die or be injured in a car accident than in anything like this. Not to mention that a car accident will cost you much more than having your Ipod stolen. Move from a beautiful neighborhood in New Haven, the most historic city in the United States (measured by the % of areas that are part of National RHP districts), to a bland, unwalkable suburb? Yeah right. I wish the news media would give a more realistic perspective.

Posted by: jade | January 2, 2007 7:42 PM

Charlie, I don't understand your point. Are you downplaying the importance of raising the awareness of gun-related crimes among our youth? Let's not compare the tragedies...teen related car accidents certainly are sad and important and deserve attention but that is not what we're talking about here. We live in these neighborhoods where guns are being brandished. There were more gun related killings here in New Haven in '06 than in years, and too many youth were involved. Even ones that "are not into drug dealing".

Posted by: nfjanette | January 2, 2007 8:57 PM

Charlie: why choose which problems to publicize? Dangerous driving - by drivers of all ages - is an epidemic on our roads. But lately, so is violent crime. Both need to be dealt with swiftly and surely by law enforcement.

What I want to know is: where does the left wing press that constantly complains about young criminals being "locked away" as injustice stand on this issue now that it's Westville being stalked by armed criminals? That teenage criminal with the gun locked and loaded was one trigger pull away from committing murder - and it wasn't even his first time as a criminal! Why wasn't he put away the first time ?!?

Posted by: Cedar Hill Resident | January 3, 2007 10:55 AM

OK We meaning Cedar Hill have been complaining to ALL OF THE HIGHER UPS I mean everyone of them from the mayor to the alderman to chief of police and down the line about a house on Cedar and May. They sit in lawn chairs dealing.!! and yesterday 2 of them finally ended up shot. But quess what that corner is filled with young childern too. This happened in the day time. It could of been one of them getting hit by a stray bullet but does anyone listen??? NO!
Then we ask why are these kids doing this... Well here is a corner of drug dealing (for Years same group of people) they are paying a minimal amount of punishment for there crimes if any at all. The police know about it and yet they have been there for how long. These kids see that there is no real punishment for comminting crime where they live (meaning the bad areas) so why not do it. If you want it to stop you need to go into the bad areas and fix them and stop guarding the safe areas from the bad areas because that is not going to work. It is that simple.

Posted by: charlie | January 3, 2007 12:41 PM

The point is, even minor crime stories are always front and center. How come massacres on the highways are relegated to footnotes on the WTNH.com site - if even that?

Posted by: Cedar Hill Resident | January 4, 2007 10:03 AM

Charlie
Just my thought but this site I thought was for local news "neighborhood news" or news that effects our area. I come to this site so I know what is happening in New Haven and how it is going to affect my area. I come to share my thoughts with others and learn from others and sometimes just to vent. That may be why it is not always on this site.
As far as the news stations go I can guess that there must be hundreds of stories everyday and they have to decide which ones to cover. Plus they have to keep there ratings up for the advertisers.

Posted by: greg neagle | January 4, 2007 10:49 AM

charlie, got any children of your own? what dont you understand about gun violence? why compare general violent traffic deaths to neighborhood violence? is there some kind of scale the rest of us dont know about? what if the stolen ipod comes with a a gunshot to a neighborhood kid? charlie, get off your computer, get out of the house, talk to parents in Westville.You are blissfully ignorant about your "beautiful neighborhood "

Posted by: charlie | January 4, 2007 7:04 PM

Sure thing, Greg. Now, how about the fact that every study shows urban neighborhoods are several times safer than suburban ones, due to the incidence and speed of traffic. And if you aren't a drug dealer or prostitute, it's more like 10 to 100 times safer (or more) to live in a central city, even a poor area of one. Compare that to the answer you get when you ask the average person which is safer. The disparity is due entirely to the news media, which is sponsored by car commercials and simply has a tradition of reporting crime front and center. Unfortunately, even on this site, which is not sponsored by Nissan, the misinformation (or at least the lack of information) continues.

Few people are willing to admit something that's right in front of their face, just as few are willing to admit that they are safer flying to Hawaii 1,000 times than they are driving a couple times to the local airport.

Posted by: charlie | January 4, 2007 7:27 PM

Also, Greg, speaking of "what abouts", to turn your phrase around, what if your ride from Westville to the local mall to buy that Ipod comes with a car engine through your heart? If I recall correctly, several hundred Ipods were stolen in robberies last year in New York City, many on the subways; none of them resulted in someone being shot to death. And "what about" the parents of some of the 150 some odd people killed every day in car "accidents" in this country - almost all of which would be preventable if we had different policies? Do they have feelings, too? How about the widows or orphans of the tens of thousands of people killed in a car last year?

Posted by: cedar hill resident | January 4, 2007 8:15 PM

Charlie, do kids in your area wake up with no heat or lights go to school with no socks in the winter or even worse the only food they get are from the breakfast and lunch program in school??
Charlie I would love to hear where you are getting this info can you please post it?? When your kid walks out the house do you have to tell him to hide any nice gadget he may have on him. Better yet have you had your kid come home crying because it was taken?? My neighbor bought her kid a nice coat for Christmas and she (the kid) told her mother if I were this to school I will get jumped for it. What you are talking about are reported things most of inner city muggings and petty theft in New Haven are not on record. one of my neighbors cars were broken into last week and you know what she got when she called the police "why do a report there is nothing we can do about t now she had to insist several times before they would do a police report. Come to Cedar Hill for a week live it!! bring your family!! Just remember the fraise duck and cover.

Posted by: greg | January 5, 2007 10:00 AM

charlie,OBVIOUSLY, YOU HAVE NO CHILDREN! once again, you're missing out on the issue. Lets assume you're correct with your stats about traffic violence. maybe someone died in your family or got hurt. simple question for you ;why compare tragedies to Westville parents whose CHILDREN!walk in your beautiful neighborhood? Again, its apples and oranges to those of us whose CHILDREN might get shot in your beautiful neighborhood.Parents are frightened beyond belief that your beautiful neighborhood might have gun violence towards any CHILDREN!.We are less concerned about stats,or your anger towards the auto industry, or the media, particularly when you insist that this issue is more important than what you label as "minor crimes". CHILDREN who are threatened by a gun are traumatized to some degree. some more than others. none of this is "minor" You should take your issue,which i assume you are correct with your stats, to the Conn. State Dept of Transportation,or the State Police,or other agencies that may relieve your angst about car accidents involving kids.Those of us raising CHILDREN realize it is not against the law to walk on West Elm or any street in Westville on a Fri. night You are not happy about local coverage of our CHILDREN getting stuck up with loaded guns? not enough blood for you? Stop and think! maybe you'll surprise us and understand what local parents are concerned about, but i dont think you care! Charlie, re:your blood and guts teen highway accident stats, how many Fords, how many Chevys? maybe you can run a spread sheet for us uniformed folks stuck myopically in your "beautiful neighborhood". Why dont you drive an ambulance? then you can give Westville parents updates. You might title it" Charlie's Highway Accident Stats". Need an agent? let me know!

Posted by: charlie | January 5, 2007 4:06 PM

There's no problem running human interest stories on robberies, violence, immigrant overcrowding, etc., but I'm asking, where's the balance in all of it? Isn't the media supposed to be balanced? If so, how come a huge number of front and center stories are about crime?

Greg if you're so concerned about children, how about considering that there are many more child victims of car crashes than child shooting victims? And Greg, don't you agree that part of the reason people are "traumatized" by violence is because they think (from reading so many front-page crime stories) that it's somewhat likely to happen to them?

I think we can both agree that people aren't as worried about car accidents in the same proportion as they should be (the opposite side is people living in "gated" apartment towers in very large cities, who don't get micro-local news like this, and tend to think they live in complete "safety" even when people down the street are getting shot regularly - simply because they don't hear about it in their news sources and don't socialize with anyone outside their ultra-rich circles of friends). If they were, don't you agree that there would be less urban sprawl? Don't you think people would walk more, look both ways when driving through an intersection, and think twice before driving above the speed limit? And wouldn't that benefit everyone? My point is, why isn't anyone else asking about this? Doesn't anyone care that our news simply doesn't do a good job when it comes to fairly reporting about the things that are truly bad for us?

Posted by: knuckles | January 6, 2007 10:43 PM

All this is besides the point.

What can Westville residents do to stip this from happening? Has there been any progess with the Owl's Nest bar off Whalley?

Posted by: cedar hill resident | January 7, 2007 4:13 PM

knuckles
I was at a city meeting where the bars that are causeing problems in the city are being addressed. Big problems take time but they are not forgotten. Your area and other areas are having problems with some buissness in the communities. The city is working on it, at least that is what I heard.

Posted by: greg | January 8, 2007 9:01 AM

these are 15 and 14 year thugs with guns robbing other kids 15 and 16 years old on the street. Not the same crowd as the Owls Nest, but guns nonetheless. The guns have got to go and the police need as much help as possible. perhaps more undercover work on the street? Anything to get rid of kids with guns, including ramdom/specific searchs anywhere on the street.

Posted by: F.C. | January 8, 2007 11:44 AM

i moved to westville because i wanted my girlfriend and dog to be safe, while still living in new haven. it's a bad town, but i was born and raised here and want to stay here. i live on central ave, and i'll be honest, i wouldn't ever consider the hill, valley st. dixwell or dwight because it's dangerous. now i gotta think about protecting my own, and i'm going to take action. i voted for lamont, i believe in higher taxes to help social programs, i hate fox news. and i'm enrolling in pistol classes with the idea that in a few weeks, i'll be carrying a loaded handgun when i walk my dog and accompany my girlfriend to westville market. if its me or them, i choose me.
the new haven police are just not effective enough for me to leave our lives in their hands, and i won't be a prisioner in my own apartment.
perhaps i'm the beginning of the new "liberal gun owner" demographic. again, nothing personal, i'm just protecting myself and my loved ones. what would you do to protect your spouse / partner / children?
f.c.
westville

Posted by: Cedar Hill Resident | January 8, 2007 4:51 PM

F.C.

Wow!!! Is that the answer I think that would put you in more danger having the gun. (that's just me!) I to do not rely on the police anymore I call I am a thron in there side. But the ones that know me know I am out on the street stoping the crime myself with the people on my street. We called and called for 4 years! and not a thing. We go up to people ask them are you lost, is your car broken down can I call a tow truck and they in most cases will move on. Then you do have your scary guys that we do call the police on the ones that out right dealing and they never come. but at least we are slowing them down alittle. The police tell us not to do that. But if we did not the crime would be at the least 50% worse on my street not including the streets that are around me that I will not even walk down unlsess I am with a group.
So I feel your pain. But really think about the gun.

Posted by: Edward_H | January 9, 2007 11:33 PM

F.C.
I totally agree with you. My wife and I both became legal gun owners after moving to New Haven from New York City and becoming victims of crime for the first time in our lives. The rampant criminal behavior that is allowed by the parents of these young savages is appalling. We would love to rely on the police, however that is unrealistic considering the NHPD is undermanned and underfunded. Not to mention the hands of the police being tied by the spineless liberal politicians who run this city. Remember this is the city where the police were almost held responsible for a girl having an aneurysm during a traffic stop. How can you expect cops to be proactive in such an atmosphere? I for one hope things change now that the mayor has remembered he has a job to do other than running for statewide office but I will not leave the protection of my family in his hands. Get your permit and practice often. Good luck!

Posted by: greg | January 10, 2007 1:32 PM

F.C. you are an adult, you have the legal right to bear arms, if you choose. if there is an incident on the street involving you and a kid with a gun, better you be VERY CAREFULL. Remember,no good deed goes unpunished. i'm all for protecting my family like you, my kid is already a victim, just be careful in new haven using your weapon. somehow, you will be at fault,i'm afraid. good luck.

Posted by: dangerous precedent | January 20, 2007 12:18 PM

2 things:

The first and most important. There is a culture of non-enforcement in this city. Symptomatic are both the "no turn on red" signs that are ignored countless times daily (with cops in plain view), red lights run, speeding drivers through residential neighborhoods, jaywalkers and double-parkers on whalley and elsewhere who create dangerous situations, and cops on their personal cell phones while driving. (Maybe they don't have to follow the law.)

The point remains: how can you expect anyone--ANYONE--to have respect for the law if it is left blatantly unenforced. It sends the message that laws are there to be seen and ignored. Maybe some laws are bad, but until they are repealed they ought to be enforced. Check out Abraham Lincoln's Lyceum Address:

"When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws, nor that grievances may not arise, for the redress of which, no legal provisions have been made.--I mean to say no such thing. But I do mean to say, that, although bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible, still while they continue in force, for the sake of example, they should be religiously observed."

I never thought I'd say it, but give me a Giuliani over a DeStefano any day. I think law-abiding citizens in this city need to make the police force accountable. In my 3 years of living here I've not once seen them pull anyone over for a traffic or jaywalking violation. They'll take credit when crime goes down, but will they take credit when it goes up? (My apologies to the many good cops out there.)

Also, in light of some of the comments above, it's interesting to note that the gun in the incident described in the article "had been reported stolen in a prior burglary." Probably legally owned. Just something to consider.