New Haven Independent

Posted by: Ned | January 2, 2007 2:47 PM

Are all of these people crazy? "I've been in jail with killers. They're not bad people." No of course not, I'm sure they're marvelous people - once they wash the blood off. Followed by the understatement of the year that killing someone is just a "bad decision" like eating extra dessert. Also the suggested "no killing zones", is that like a no parking zone? which seems to imply that there will be one and two hour killing zones. Maybe these community "leaders" can just shoot (haha) for a year of "no bad decisions, made by not bad people, in killing zones" If you think the government is here to help, just look at the "help" that was provided to New Orleans. The parasitical "ministers" who's churches don't pay taxes and don't create any economic activity in their neighborhoods have a lot of nerve talking about providing jobs - their line of work is basically talking s--t anyway. One last comment on the "employment tip," "As long as there are zero jobs, there won't be zero killings." Give me a job or I'll shoot.

Posted by: Gary Holder-Winfield | January 2, 2007 6:52 PM

Ned I have a question: what would you suggest? I hear your issue with what was presented but I just wonder what you think should happen.

Posted by: bjfair | January 2, 2007 8:34 PM

Gary, Some comments are just not worthy of response.

Posted by: Ned | January 2, 2007 9:55 PM

Before someone gets a job, he has to be employable, that is, educated to at least the same level as the competition (white suburban kids), which apparently isn't happening for a lot of kids in New Haven public schools. How about instead of paying to pay a minister or maintain a church the money goes to pay tuition or a tutor? "Nothing fails like prayer." The city government could be more open to economic development and job creation. Encouraging people to have smaller families or delay having children until after they're financially or educationally established would help a lot. Relocating some people (heresy) to safer suburbs, with better school systems seems to make sense, but requires a certain risk taking outlook - wanting to leave the familiar, but dangerous and limiting neighborhood behind. Encourage people to make good decisions - that's within their power.

Posted by: Gary Holder-Winfield | January 2, 2007 10:23 PM

Perhaps, but the thinking behind the comments should be addressed. I could sit at home and lob bombs all day but it really means nothing if I can't actually provide an alternative way of approaching the situation (or at least the beginings of some real thoughtful approach). I for one am extremely interested in what all have to say. I know that I do not have the answers (that is one thing I am sure of). I do know that no matter what we call for; programs, better parenting, money on and on we cannot do anything real if the ear of the street is not ours. This means, to me, that we need to be out there and that seems to be what forms the real question here. Are we going to make an effort to be where these kids are? Are we? Or will we continue to walk by them without looking at them because we are afraid to provoke them? The hard work is not to call for zero-killings it is to move from our safe zones to those streets.
But that is just my opinion. I think I am right because hen I am out there speaking to these kids I hear refected back to me a need not to feel invisible. The truth is though that I don't really know and maybe Ned when he is done throwing bombs has something constructive to offer. So, I think that maybe it might be worth addressing the comments to see what he really has to offer to move us forward.

Posted by: TSN | January 2, 2007 10:43 PM

The lack of a stable family, a man, woman, and child(ren) will continue to be the real problem of the community. Parents, particularly mothers, stop treating your boys like princes. Hold them accountable from the age of being able to tell the difference between right and wrong. If we are going to have a serious conversation about youth and youth violence, it must include a serious conversation about parental responsability.

The same old same old approach has failed. Hold as many of your rallies that want, write as many slogans as you want (ZERO KILLINGS is a pretty dumb slogan).

The Black male community leaders have failed their families, their youth, and their community. How sad. Such powerful preaching, awesome words, but it has produced no good fruit.

Posted by: shelton tucker | January 3, 2007 4:14 AM

I wasn't saying that all killers aren't bad people. I know some good kids from decent homes that killed someone in the heat of the moment and had to spend the rest of their years or the best of their years in prison. Some got in with a bad crowd and broke under peer pressure. this is not in every case, but most of these killings were committed with the intention to harm or maim and the victim unfortunately died. I know what I speak of because I've lived it. And yes, jobs do create oppurtunities for people to support themselves and their families; thus,taking away the need to commit crime to accomplish this. you sound very disconnected and miseducated.

Posted by: Ned | January 3, 2007 8:04 AM

Maybe you'd like to comment on this article? I could easily see this happening in New Haven too.
http://www.keithboykin.com/arch/2007/01/02/six_men_shot_at

Posted by: jane mills | January 3, 2007 12:32 PM

The call for parents to be accountable for their children is a good one, because as anyone who deals with certain families in the system knows, the parents are very often the problem. These leaders know there is a culture of multigenerational families burdened with deep moral (and I don't mean religious, I mean religious or secular moral) confusion and rootlessness and regular criminal activity. As a community, this is the fundamental unit of our problem. What do you do to turn a family like that around? What do you do to save one member? What should you do? Is there a point where a city can only do so much, and after giving chance upon chance, finally yanks the programs many of the same families depend upon? Take just one of these families that community leaders are calling out to in the article above -- and the police know who they are beause they are constantly dealing with them -- and study its history in the public records, all the chances and hands up extended in help over decades. New Haven like few places anywhere gives opportunities to those who need it. I did this. I studied one family, and what I found was breathtaking. Try it yourself. I found a family that has been subsidized for decades and threw every single opportunity away. Not just one opportunity, but just about every one. After blowing it several times, it's members continue to commit new crimes and prey upon their neighbors. As we speak, this family is enjoying its latest helping gestures from New Haven's programs and from employers too, who hired them despite the criminal convictions. What are they doing with the almost free rent, the good jobs and the benefits? They are still preying on their neighbors, commiting new crimes and tying up the courts and jails. The public records, available to anyone, were not inches thick, they were several feet thick. A portrait of this family emerged out of voluminous records going back decades. It's members seem to have a proprietary sense of entitlement to help and a culture of predation that will not stop and that was after discarding any police report in the pile that appeared to have any chance of being bogus. In cases like this, should the city pull the plug? There are some laws that do this already, such as yanking public housing from drug dealers. We are not immortal gods, we are simply people trying to maintain community. My heart says keep trying and never quit but my head knows there is a limit, we are all only human and have only so many resources. Individuals, neghborhoods, churches, community groups and the city should keep on trying, but each has its limits and we need to acknowledge them before we call for and institute even more extreme sentencing laws. Better this shunning than to establish draconian law and order reforms that will put kids in jail for life. In light of New Haven's generous, liberal minded programs, how can we be blamed for throwing in the towel on some families? We tried, and we tried really hard. In some cases, we have tried for generations. In the end, if you study any such family as I did, you have to acknowledge a recalcitrant ill intent when you see it and question the wisdom of letting city programs bleed money to them when it could make more of a difference with another family. It seems to me that would be a gentler way of addressing the problem, even though it forces the family elsewhere where services would be initiated for them again there. Warehousing kids or very young adults for life or nearly life in jail cells (most of them Black, by the way. Aren't there enough Black kids in jail?) strikes me as sure to fail and even make things worse.
We have an adversarial system of justice, but wherever possible, in each program where it is possible, can we not try to adopt a fact-finding model instead of an adversarial model and try to apply our help more intelligently and effectively?
I commend the leaders in the article above who are calling out to parents. I hope parents hear the message. And I think Mr. Tucker is right when he criticizes sentencing proposals and he speaks with a veritible mountain of evidence behind him. It costs about $80 a day to house an inmate in Connecticut, according to the Connecticut Department of Correction. As a solution, it is a desperate one that will accelerate the already frightening rate of disenfrachisement of citizens in America, especially Blacks.

Posted by: cedar hill resident | January 3, 2007 6:40 PM

Gary I think of myself as a person that does in my community.
If you read all the articles from the past month about the curfew you will see that there are solutions in motion. Do you know what those KIDS asked for ...do you... they asked for there parents to be more involved in there lives... to find the time for them. Hmmm not to make excuses that the world is not fair. No the world is not fair. We can not change the damage that is done but we can change the future.
If you tell someone all there lives they aren’t ever going to get anywhere, that there are no jobs out there because of who they are and say the only way we can feed our families is to commit what ever crime, guess what they are going to think, that is the way the world is. The “suburban� kids are taught you need to stay in school you need to get good grades or they are grounded, they have rules to follow and education is the most imporant thing.. That is the difference...(come on.. I feel the hate because of that comment). Let me ask does anyone have the numbers of how many Non-New Haven kids are in our school system?? How many people pay New haven Taxes, Bus fees plus there own taxes just so there kids can be in some of New haven schools.
Do you know why I moved back to New Haven for the schools. I work 2 crappy jobs 7 days a week to support my children. I made hundreds of phone calls (and I mean hundreds) to find programs for my children. Now that is still no guarantee that they will grow up to be lawyers they may grow up and work at Walmart but I made sure I gave them that chance I gave them the tools and taught them there is no excuse. If the world is not fair the that means you just have to work harder and not give up.

It starts at home, values and basic common curtsies what is right and what is wrong. The school system is there for one reason and it is not to raise children it is there to teach them Math English and Science it is the parents that need to teach the rest. And a solid community is a must. I do not know how old you are but when I was growing up everyone watched everyones kids. Parents need to get over themselves and realize that when a neighbor is telling them that there kids are up to no good it is not for another reason but to help the kids. And for the comment that killers need a chance to; I have to admit that I laughed when I read it. Listen, ok they payed there dues, but you are not going to get out of jail and find a great job you need to start at the bottom and work the crappy jobs and you need to work harder than anyone else and do work that you are not being payed to do and yes even a bad guy turned good will get a chance if he really wants it.

Every negative has a positive stop teaching the negative an start teaching the positives.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | January 4, 2007 11:36 AM

Every One Is Calling For Parents To Be Accountable
For Their Children Behavior, I Agree That Parents
Should Be Held Accountable As Long as The Rich And
Wealthy Parents Are Held Accountable For There Kids Behavior.But There Is a Double Standard When
We Call For Parent Accountable. Look At George Bush Look How His Parents Raised Him To Be The Biggest Liar and Thief. What Kind Of Parents does Paris Hilton Have? Bill Cosby Who Is Talking about
Parent Accountable Him Self Was Force to Pay a Civil Lawsuit To a Woman Because of Bad Behavior.
So I Do Agree That Parents Should be Held Accountable for There Children Behavior as Long As
We Base Accountable On All Because It Look Like
We are Just Singling Out One Group Of People.
Second As Far as School Read DR. Jonathan Kozol
Book Savage Inequalities Who Said That Nothing Has
Change Since He Wrote This Book, Also In New York
Ex-Govner Patiek Took all of The Lottery money And Sent It To The Suburban Schools And Not One Dime Of That Lottery Money Went To The Incites.A
Lawsuit Was Filed And It Took Ten Years to Win
The Ten Million Dollars And Till This Day The
Incites Are Still Wait To Be Payed This Money!!To
Cedar Hill Resident The Reason Why You And Others
Are Working Two And Three Crappy Jobs are Because
Of Outsorceing And The Corporatist Who Will Tell
You That We Can Hire Immigrants To Do These Jobs!!
Education Collage Has Be Come Nothing More Than A
Loan Shark Operation In Which The Collages Work
Hand And Hand With Banks That Give Out The Student
Loans and When The Students Get The Degree And Can not Find Work They Are Then Stuck With That
Student Loan. I Know This First Hand Because I Have Friends In New York Who Have PhD And Master
Degrees Who Work Crappy Jobs And Drive Taxicabs.
And Still Live With There Parents Because After
Paying Everything Off They Have No Money Left.So
This Is Why I Always Say That Blame Must Go Around The Table.

Posted by: Fix the schools | January 4, 2007 12:25 PM

If we as a community ever decide to imbue all of our kids with the knowledge, character, and skill set necessary to navigate the contemporary world, we will see crime rates fall, property values go up, hope grow, and poverty lessen. Lets stop moralizing and blaming parents. Let's fix the schools and send kids to college. How? Listen to, and watch Dr. Adamowski, the new school's supt. in Hartford. If Mayor Eddie Perez survives the next election and the unions don't drive Adamowski out of town, watch and see what happens to Hartford's school district results and reputation. Then watch Hartford start to thrive.

For a hint of what is to come, two weeks ago Adamowski uncovered the lie behind the Hartford Board of Ed's supposed high school graduation rate stats. The Hartford BOE had been claiming that 85% of students graduate from Hartford public schools. However according to Adamowski, who is a researcher, the actual graduation rate was really under 30%! Where was the huge discrepancy? In it's calculations, the district had decided to count as "transfers" all the kids that they shove out the door to adult education every year. Adamowski pointed out that adult ed doesn't provide a college ready degree and therefor all students who transfer to adult ed really should be counted as drop-outs. Quite a dose of reality. The surprising good news is that the BOE was thrilled to hear the truth, and they plan to do something about it.

Conversely, today I read in the Register in an op-ed piece by the New Haven Supt. that unlike Hartford, our city has a "6.4%" drop-out rate, (if my NHPS math is right that is a 93.6% graduation rate!). I wonder how the numbers would come out if we applied Adamowski's formula instead? How would our BOE react? Would they even release the numbers which allow for an objective Adamowski-style analysis? Parents, kids, and every citizen deserve the truth. How can we start fixing the problem if we are fed nonsense? Preparing our kids for a college education is the only sustainable way to reduce crime and poverty. Who is going to lead?

Posted by: Gary Holder-Winfield | January 4, 2007 3:13 PM

Drop out rates have always relied on how they are calculated. Some do what was done in Hartford others do a similar thing with those who "promise" to go for a GED and on and on.

Posted by: Fix the schools | January 4, 2007 9:11 PM

Do you think the general public realizes that the real graduation rate is actually far less than what the official leader of the school system says it is? The bottom line is that violent crime and gang violence would go down if the public schools were equipping 12th grade students with 12th grade skills. We can't look to parents, who themselves were the victims of an unequal education system, to lead their kids down a path that they themselves have never travelled. The Board of Ed. and the union leadership cry for parent involvement. They should be careful what they ask for. Parents should heed their cry and get involved - by showing up at the next BOE meeting and demanding to know what the real graduation rate is, what the content of the "Advanced Placement" curriculum is, why teacher union leaders fight tooth and nail to hold onto a 6 1/2 hour school day and 2 1/2 months off a year, and won't allow differentiation between good teachers and lousey ones. Why don't the leaders of this city stand up for the children, and by doing so stand up for all of us? If the leaders of the city and the schools continue to hide the truth about the quality of education in New Haven, then how can citizens ever start to rectify the situation?

Posted by: OH WELL | February 7, 2007 10:01 PM

Sometimes you can be the best parent and the GOATHEAD children will not lisen to you.Some are more impressed with what their peers you talk pray and lead by example and you can still lose a child to the evils of the world.You teach them that education is the road to sucesss(SUPPOSE TO BE) Door's that shut in your face because of your Color and not your worth that is there lost.You have to live in this cruel world, So we all can play the quessing game of where the drugs and guns come from?but the black on black crime static is not a guessing game SO WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

Posted by: Willie Williams Jr | February 25, 2007 10:35 PM

The Paradine Is To Long To list As To Why Black Youth and Men Are Shooting Each Other. Right Now Science and Technology Cannot Read Minds. Example: The Company You Keep, Idol Mind and Time, Being In The Wrong Place At The Wrong Time, Personality Conflicts, Neighborhood Control of A Street/Block, Ignorance. As Far As Jobs and Employment Is Concerned, Everyone Does NOT! Have The Drive or Driven To Seek Employment, ALL Black Males Cannot Function In The Society As A Productive Responsible Citizen. The Answer Could Be Volunteer Family Advisors To The 200 Families Whom Have Been Identified By The Board of Aldermen. Yes! You Can Feed People and Even Teach People How To Fish...Everyone Cannot Learn. Some People Need Constant Direct Supervision and Motivation. Decades of Non-Productive Behavior Has Fell Upon Black People. Read The Story About Anna In The "Study of Sociology"...You Might Learn Something.
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