New Haven Independent

Posted by: Bruce | March 2, 2007 8:29 AM

Tax, spend, tax, spend, tax, spend, tax, spend... will it ever end?? How about some relief for the regular folks? The mil rate reduction is a joke. Instead of residential taxes going up 88%, they're going up 85%. That is outrageous. It's time to start taking drastic measures.

This is not just a matter of me personally not wanting to shell out more cash, but we as a city compete with other communities for homebuyers. Why would anyone pay twice the price to live in New Haven as they would in neighboring towns? The less people who live here, the smaller the tax base and the higher and higher taxes will go. I am truly concerned about the future of this city.

I beg the aldermen of this city to deny this increase. Lower taxes. Cut spending everywhere immediately. Fire people. Do whatever you have to do to save the city from sliding further down the slope.

Posted by: Josh Erlanger | March 2, 2007 9:28 AM

I love reading the independent but you guy really leave out key facts sometimes. The mill rate of 44.85 does not take in to account the revaluations. With the revals the mill rate would be closer to 29.9 they way this article is writen you may give some people a heart attack.

Posted by: TZ | March 2, 2007 9:55 AM

Josh all they are doing is phasing it on over the next few years. Trust me you will feel the full brunt of the Mill rate and reval in just a few years.

Posted by: elmcityview | March 2, 2007 12:24 PM

It simply amazes me that a “permanent” taxes freeze for seniors, in which the city would forgo about $2.7 million in property tax payments each year, would be considered in the same budget year as an additional $1 million expenditure on police. Everyone deserves tax relief, and signaling out this one group of people for is not only unfair, it will have an adverse and long-lasting impact on the New Haven housing market since this policy once enacted will be almost impossible to ever rescind.

New Haven will become an attractive haven for asset-rich (and some even cash-rich) retiring seniors in the region to purchase million dollar condos/homes, hide their income on paper so it’s under $50,000 year.

The city will become an unattractive area for first-time homebuyers, young professionals, artists and people needing affordable housing given this city policy which effectively shifts fiscal responsibility from everyone who enjoys city services to everyone under 70 years of age who can pay for the increasing and exponentially-escalating cost of city services.

Issues affecting seniors and property taxes should be addressed using market solutions (none of which the city seemed to have explored or investigated) rather than through the creation of market inefficiencies with major accompanying negative externalities.

The city’s forgoence of $2.7 million a year in property taxes given the annual fiscal deficit and tax increases is not sound fiscal or social policy in the short- (except for elections) or long-term.

Posted by: Josh Erlanger | March 2, 2007 1:01 PM

TZ, I understand they are phasing it in but as they phase in the revaluations the mill rate will drop. Its really all the same your payment won't change either way. All phasing in the assessment does is make people more comfotible with the assessment it dosent change your taxes at all (going forward). If you go by what is writen here an assessment of 300,000 would pay $13,455 in taxes when the truth is the payment would be more like $8,970.

Posted by: bottom line | March 2, 2007 1:53 PM

I recall reading a comment that the new budget would be almost $30,000,000 more than last year, so I guess that was correct.

This is what happens when the elected leader of the city, ignores it while running for another office, leaving the city in the hands of unelected people. All of New Haven needs to rally around a new mayor. A person that has the guts to do the job.

Now watch property values drop like a lead balloon. People will sell, rents will get out of control, prooperty will becom blighted. Finally, based on comments on the noise issue, the $500,000 condo's in downtown aren't as wonderful as the purchaser thought, not realizing the havoc in the streets Thursday thru Saturday at 2:00am. Those value will drop as well. But the owners don't even pay close to what most residents pay since the property taxes are deferred, and are now going to be phased-in, a double benefit, but most likely not enough to off-set the noise and distruptions downtown. It makes it very clear why so many people resigned from the city over the past two years. Maybe they saw what was happening and knew they could do nothing.

Posted by: Josh Erlanger | March 2, 2007 3:00 PM

Bottom line,
I guess that’s one way to look at it. I prefer to see tons of new development. The coliseum is down. The Macys building will be down soon. Gateway will move downtown bring 8000 new people with it. Even the new haven Varity store building was sold recently hopefully ensuring that blemish will soon be erased. Starbucks moved in to the corner of church and chapel and the shatenburgh site deal is moving forward. All this in a 3 by 3 block area and half of that is owned by Yale. Given all that I don’t see how property values could be headed downward in the long term. As for noise it’s a city there is going to be noise. I agree that the salty dog probably should be moved to a more appropriate location but if you live downtown in any city its going to be nosey when the clubs let out.
Also the $500,000 down town condos are great. Next weekend owners will be able to see the parade from there huge bay windows and the views of the x-mas tree on the green were nice this year as well. I for one can’t wait to see the mayor at the FREE concerts on the green this summer and let him know I think he’s doing a great job.

Posted by: Bottom line | March 3, 2007 4:23 PM

Josh, I believe you are wrong n you anaylsis of the impact of a phase-in. Taxes are going up across the board due the 30M budegt increase. Regardless of the phase-in, which is smoke and mirrors, and increase in the city budget of 30M means every property owner will pay more. The only benefit is that a higher Mil rate generates more revenue from perosnal property and motor vechicle. The mil rate would only have dropped to 29 something if reval was put in at 100% andf the budget not had the big hole.

I would love to agree that downtown will retain value, but I have watched the history of poor development in New Haven for years and feel very confident, although saddened, that downtown is now overbuilt with "luxury" units. The demographics don't support the need for all these units, thus simple economics supports a decrease in value. Shartenburg was recently rejected by the Mayor who cited density issues. Gateway and the Coliseum are not profit generating. The land is now tax-exempt. Long Wharf Theater willnow have no taxes. They at least paid the pro-rata share of tax in the long wharf location. The city will lose that. The Gateway 8,000 new peopel are not a population that will support local business. Plus it creates a parking and raffic nightmare. Combine that with the new school on George and College and you will se we are losing, forever, very valuable land and all potential revenue. You also need to look at how small the tax revenue is on all the new downtown development. The taxes are frozen for two years and then pahsed-in, on top of the phase-in for reval.

The financial crisis in New Haven is directly related to the failure by the Mayor and his staff to responsibly run this city for the past few years. Bringing thousands of students downtown will not create new revenue. Development of the coliseum site will take years, mainly due to the fact that now the city is not attractive to any developer, unless they get a hugh tax break. I hope you are right. Only time will tell. But if you know the history of redevelopment in New Haven you would know that putting schools downtown, ie the old Lee High, tends to make the city less tolerable for businesses. Why do you think the business district moved to Grove St years ago. It was to get away from the masses of students that act completely disrespectful as they walk around downtown. I believe we are about to see New Haven hit a very bumpy patch in the road. Poor planning, poor administration. I urge you to look at how many good people left the city due to the fact that the so called leaders left in charge while the Mayor pursued his personal dreams, were ignorant. Time will tell and I hope you are right. Bt history tends to repoeat itself on those that don't learn from the failures of teh past. What was so wrong with Gateway where it was. Or why couldn't it be located in North Haven. They have no colleges or hospitals and aren't subject to getting short changed by the State in the reimbursement program. The city for College and Hospitals alone has been shorted and average of close to $15M a year for the past five years, and we are now going to get even less. The city debt service is way too high, just look into it. That is what is driving the debt and resulting in lower bond ratings.

Posted by: robn | March 4, 2007 11:09 AM

To Josh Erlanger,

By my calculations, even with the mill rate slightly adjusted downward, the reval on my house will increase my property taxes by 80%. This has happened to a majority of my neighbors with whom I've spoken. I understand that this is going to be phased in over 5 years (meaning we will pay 20% of the increase in the first year, 40% in the second year and so on...)However, I've not seen anything from the mayors office or the Board of Alderman stating that they intend to drop the mill rate incrementally in the next 5 years to neutralize the reval and flat line our tax payments. Could you back up your claim and show NHI readers where you got your information? If its carved in stone legislation, that would be quite a relief.

Posted by: Josh Erlanger | March 4, 2007 1:12 PM

Bottom line, I guess we just disagree. I Don't think the market is flooded with luxury units. If you go to realtor.com you will see there are about 13 units for sale right now if you include the gables in Wooster square. I do think that the Residences and Shoppes at College Square plan will however flood the market 272 units would be way to much for this area but who knows people use the word luxury for everything these days. If the units start around 250M that might be OK. I think you just wrong about the shattenburg site. Its my understanding the city sold the land
On Feb. 13, city officials chose Becker and Becker of Fairfield. As far as gateway goes I think you'll find many of there students are adults and will spend money downtown. I belive you'll see the old mall retail space on church fill up with sotres looking to cater to them. I think the wine theife and the new starbucks both had this in mind when chooseing there new locations. the 30mil tax incress is an increase i dident mean to sujest it wasent. I was only trying to say that the phase in has no impact on the amount of money the city will take in from the grand list and thus out of our pockets.

ROBN, as far as spcifics go it gets a bit more compicated. First of nothing is for sure yet as this budget hasent been passed. Secondly as long as your assesment is equal to the reassment average you taxes would only change by your share of the 30M increase. The indipendent had a good articlle with a spreadsheet on this a few months ago. I belive downtown Condos took the hardest hit going up something like 200% I think the average increase was something between 60% and 8o% percent but you should be abel to find the articel on this site. Perhaps Mr. Bass could provide us with a link to that spreadsheet as its a great tool.
As far as droping the mill rate incremently you can read this from the register it says "Finance officials last November presented the aldermanic Finance Committee with tax rate options based on new assessments. Alternatives were lowering the tax rate to 29.9 mills and immediately factoring in the full assessment values or using a phase-in schedule with one of three options: 40.50, 42.80 or 36.85 mills, based on different formulas.
" http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18026576&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=590581&rfi=6

Its really simple math though
445M = new assesment X 29.9 new mil rate

last year was
415M = the old assesment X 44.85 old mil rate

Posted by: TZ | March 4, 2007 4:21 PM

The truth of the matter is that in five years the full brunt of the taxes will be upon us. As someone above said, its all "Smoke and mirrors" to build up to it. I own a moderate house in East rock and luckily my tenants help pay a majority of my expenses. But with my taxes now reaching about $7000 and increasing thereafter to probably around $10k to 11k in just a few years, how are people supposed to afford it? Either rents are going to go way up or people are going to have to start selling. And if they start selling its going to be at a discount due to the intolerable taxation of this city. Who in their right mind would want to buy my house when the taxes are almost $1000 a month in a few years?

Posted by: cedar hill resident | March 4, 2007 5:53 PM

robn
I know our Alderman said that the mill rate would be ajusted. they were waiting for the final budget and then they would be able to tell us what it was going to be.

But everyone had the right to go in and protest the amount there houses were reasst at and the city said very few people showed up to do that. And then alot of people that did show up came in and said this is not right with no proof to back up why it was not right. They wanted proof, pictures and facts.

the vision site had how to do that step by step

Posted by: Bottom line | March 5, 2007 10:51 AM

There are approximately 1,700 appeals filed. That is more than 2001. People didn't bother with Vision hearings because it is common knowledge that those meetings seldom result in any thing

Posted by: bottom line | March 5, 2007 11:27 AM

Josh just one thing on those mil rates cited. They were all based on keeping the budget the same $415M. None of them reflected the budget increase to $455M, so they aren't really accurate. The benefit of pahse-in is simple, as stated, it generates more revenue from personal property and motro vehicles. Hopefully, over the years, you are right and the apartments and condo's retain value. If so as the deferral is phased out more value will be on the Grand List contriucting to hjelping the mill rate become stable, but not if the spending isn't addressed, or if proprty value do fall.

Posted by: Josh Erlanger | March 5, 2007 12:05 PM

Im only giveing this one more go.
Reassessments don’t raise your taxes unless your property value went up faster then the average property in the city. Taxes this year are going up by about 7% so for tz yours should only change about $40.00 a month. in five years with or with out phaseing in the assesment if the budget and grand list stay the same so will your taxes.

Posted by: Bottom line | March 5, 2007 7:21 PM

Josh,

At this time it would be impossible for you to conclude only 7% increase. What pahse-in optioon is being considered. Is there a base increase per general statute passed last year. If so that has not beenn decided by the BOA. How many years for the phase-in? Not decided yet. You're calculations don't appear to reflect the public acts passed on phase-in scenarios. And could not be based on decisions not made by the BOA yet. Connecticut General Statutes and Public Acts regarding reval and phase-in are available online. Taxes are gong to increase significantly, especially with the elderly freeze and if the veteran's exemption is increased by local option. Something members of the BOA have been wanting for the past few years. The truth will come out when the phase-in optio is decided on and the mill rate set. The hardest hot will be condo's which had a median selling price of about $89,000 in 2001 and now about $220,000 in 2006. Fair Haven will be hit also, but only the houses that were purchased an renovated since 2001. However, the unrenovated houses will suffer in this area, since the value are based on the sales of the renovated houses, moreso than on the actual conditio of the property. Remember we have not doen a full list and measure in New Haven for years. They are claiming taking pictures in 2001, by non-qualified people oin the area of valuation was a physic al inspection. It was not, and our alders should demand the assessment office begin a full inspection starting now for the 2010 revaluation. It might also reveal some serious errors. I saw a gutted house on Winchester Av valued at almost $200,000, how could that happen if there was quality control by the assessment office over Vision. What is the response from the Real Estate Assessor. I think that job is the one responsible for working on property value, and reorting to the city assessor, who is more and administrator.

Posted by: Josh Erlanger | March 6, 2007 11:37 AM

Bottom line,
The city collected 415M last year this year they want 445M. given the same or larger grand list explain to me how everyone can pay so much more and have the city only collect only 7% more. The phase in dosent matter because as the assessment goes up the mill will go down. Its like saying 8 x 10 = 80 or 4 x 20 = 80 either way its the same 80. You are absolutly correct condos got killled in the reassessment but when taxes to go up on condos someone elses will go down. So yes during the phase-in the brunt of taxes would slowly be shifted from whoever did well in the reassessment to condos mostly in the downtown area but the total taxes collected is only goin up by 7%. so if your the average person you shouldent see a big change. Mabey some people out there could give us some real world examples. My new assesment for example is around 340,000 so ill be paying around $10,000 unfortunately i dont have an old assessment to comapire that to but perhaps some one else will share there new and old assessment so we can see what was and what will be.

Posted by: robn | March 6, 2007 1:09 PM

Josh Erlanger,

Your Reg link is dead and there is nothing in your Reg quote to reinforce what you earlier wrote..." I understand they are phasing it in but as they phase in the revaluations the mill rate will drop." Its qvery simple, either the Mayor or an Alderman with significant backing has committed to this or not. If not, your assertion is really only speculation.

Likewise, your acceptance of the reval has two fundamental flaws:
1) Vision Appraisal did a poor job assessing homes in my area, completely discounting new renovations on some homes (which raise resale value) and ignoring needed repairs on other homes (which drop resale value). I agree with "Bottom Line" that there are vast taxation inequities caused by the shoddy work which Vision Appraisal performed for the city. If nothing else, the City should reconsider whether this company should be paid for their work or be given any new contracts.
2) The assessments are based upon sales prices in a market peak (some say market bubble) which has passed.

Posted by: TZ | March 6, 2007 6:45 PM

Josh you say as they phase it in the mill rate will drop. Where is that coming from? What happens when next year they put in a budget that increases another $35 million +?

Posted by: bottom line | March 6, 2007 6:57 PM

Josh,

The budget was 415M The city over spent by 4.6M whihc was not collected and we have a deficit. Where do you get your numbers?

Posted by: Josh Erlanger | March 8, 2007 2:07 PM

robn, You are correct that if in your area your the prop val went way up more so then the average in the city your taxs will go up. Here is the link again seems to be working fine for me. http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18026576&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=590581&rfi=6

TZ, If they raise taxs another 35M then taxes will go up another 35M as far as the mill rate dropping you can read my past posts but the grand list went from 4m to 6m the taxes went from 415m to 445m so the only varible left is the mill rate.

Bottom line, My numbers came from the mayors new (yet to pass) budget.

Posted by: Josh Erlanger | March 8, 2007 2:18 PM

Here is a really simple example.
If there is a city that collects $10 in taxes per year and there are 10 homes in the city.
All of the homes are valued at $1 and Pay $1 in taxes.
We will say the tax rate is 100%.

If the value of the homes goes to $2
To collect the $1 from every home to collect the $10 budget the tax rate would have to drop to 50%.