New Haven Independent

Posted by: Ralph Rechtenberg | May 8, 2007 8:30 AM

Anti-immigrant fervor? Please! Choose your words wisely: ANTI ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT FERVOR.

No government issued ID card from any division or department should be made available to any illegal immigrant.

If they choose to be illegal, let them live here without the benefits of lawful residence.

Posted by: KAMB | May 8, 2007 8:43 AM

I thought Connecticut residents get valid real I.D.'s from the Dept. of Motor Vehicle. You can get a driver license and if you're under age or you dont want a drivers license you can get a valid legitimate CT ID from the DMV. Why would the city produce costly ID's to tax payers and in addition to that hand them out to ILLEGAL immigrants. People of New Haven can use a DMV ID with their New Haven residents address on it to get the same benefits and usage as these bogus New Haven ILLEGAL Immigrant ID's. And how does one get an ID? What type of valid credentials must be produced to obtain one to prove the person is who they say they are? i.e. What type of ID would an ILLEGAL immigrant need to prove they are who they are to get a city ID? All in all it's a joke that the city and the mayor would agree to use tax paying dollars to produce something for ILLEGAL immigrants under the guise that its an Elm City residential ID for library usage, downtown shopping usage, etc., when the lawful legal New Haven residents can use their CT DMV license or DMV ID with their New Haven address to get the same benefits as the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ID.

Posted by: JE | May 8, 2007 9:41 AM

You should have to at minimum show a tax return to get this card. That way at least we know we are helping illegals that really do want to contribute.

Posted by: christine | May 8, 2007 9:46 AM

I like how DeStefano made himself 28 years old.

Posted by: Please vote | May 8, 2007 10:34 AM

Please everyone get out and vote against this mayor. He is out of his mind, This is not a legal action. The post about DMV and what credentials are needed is right on. Will they begin a fund to have the ILLEGAL WORKERS pay in for social security, education, taxes that we have to pay due to them using out city services. You know they mostly get paid cash, so no taxes but plenty of services. So now we will pay for the elderly and the ILLEGAL. Soon nothng else will be left in this vibrant city we hear so much about. Fair Haven isn't vibrant, The Hill isn't, New Hallville isn't, but may get some attention, Beaver Hills? West Shore? Almost 60% of buildings and land in vibrant downtown are either exempt or in a tax deferral program. When will the city release the deferral report. By City Charter it is the BOA is supposed to get a report every year of all new and existing property in the deferral with approval dates and construction start dates. Anybody please ask, and I am asking, any BOA member when they last saw that report. I think it was told not to be provided, and since John owns the BOA they never did, It is filled with contributors. He gave downtown away for money.

Posted by: charlie | May 8, 2007 12:01 PM

This is one of the best ideas I have ever heard of.

To all the people who hate immigrants, get a life.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | May 8, 2007 1:14 PM

First I do understand the fear that if we become a immigrant sanctuary city that our resources will be sucked up. Not just by our existing immigrants but by the ones that will want to be part of our city. These cards are not intitlment cards they just give them a few basic must haves.

And I am no expert on the subject so I hope someone that knows more will post...but I am not really sure about the comment that "they" all get payed in cash is a true one. The ones I am friends with pay into SSI, and Medicade and state and federal taxes but have no rights to that money because they are illeagl.

Posted by: hipcircle | May 8, 2007 1:43 PM

There are an estimated 12-20 million illegal immigrants in the USA, and an estimated 10,000 in New Haven alone. As American Citizens, you must know that we do not have our soverienty protected on any level of government.
As for the policy that was developed by the City, I don't remember voting on a referendum, on this policy towards illegal immigrants, do you?
Although this money is to come from a grant from the New City Fund Bank, guess who is on that board? Yep, you guessed it, Yale Law School.
As for doing jobs that nobody else wants, well go talk to painters, landscapers, and others in the construction field...this saying just doesn't hold.
Breaking the law by breaking through the border is illegal, last I checked.

Posted by: Ralph Rechtenberg | May 8, 2007 2:24 PM

Charlie, if we should get a life, you should get reading glasses (at a bare minimum).

This has nothing to do with hating immigrants.

Illegal (for your benefit I stress the term) immigrants are here unlawfully. Let them adjust their own status according to the law of the land.

You don't like that idea?

So you'd agree it's ok to drive a car after a DUI conviction and license revocation? Probably not. Too harmful, right?

You'd agree it's ok to swipe a candy bar off of the shelves just because it's a buck or two? Probably not. But where's the harm?

What about people who've entered without documents or overstayed visas. That's ok with you? So the law should apply to some but not to all? Doesn't the law mean anything to you?

Posted by: CT Lawyer | May 8, 2007 3:09 PM

The hateful anti-immigrant bashing is disturbing and no doubt comes primarily from people who don't call our great city home and probably hate the rest of us for other reasons. I have neighbors and friends who are immigrants (some no doubt undocumented) and they have helped build up this city. I am tired of the people who tear New Haven down all the time anyway attacking my neighbors.

CedarHillResident: you are right that most immigrants do pay taxes and are usually not paid in cash. They do not however frequently have bank accounts (often because they lack id) so they immediately cash their checks (at check cashing and wire transfer stores that do not turn up their noses like banks but do charge high fees) and thus carry large sums of money. Anything that decreases their risk of getting mugged is a good thing. If this helps folks get bank accounts -- GREAT! A reduction in crime benefits all of us who actually live here.

I am proud that the Board of Aldermen, the Mayor and his staff all appear to support this resident id. I think it is great that they are combining all of the different things I now need to carry (library card, parksmart card, sticker for park entry, etc) into one id. It is also about time that kids get a solid id. This will help in lots of ways including child safety.

Spend some time hating in your own towns. If you do live here, please do not identify yourself and let me continue to believe I live in a tolerant place.

Posted by: frank | May 8, 2007 3:31 PM

To the people who hate immigrants, remember this words:
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door

AND ALSO REMEMBER, IF YOU ARE NOT AN AMERICAN INDIAN, YOU ARE AN IMMIGRANT!!!
GOOD FOR MAYOR DESTEFANO AND FOR THE GOOD PEOPLE OF NEW HAVEN, WHO BELIEVES ON THE GREAT CONTRIBUTION THAT IMMMIGRANTS MAKE TO OUR CITY.

Posted by: Caridad | May 8, 2007 3:59 PM

Kamb: This ID would provide benefits beyond those of the non-driver's ID from the DMV. Can you use your non-driver's ID to pay for parking, check out library cards, or buy some food? I think the city has done a great job in making this card truly useful, and would love to get one so I don't have to constantly carry around change in my car for parking meters (why carry around a library and parcsmart card when you can have two in one?).

Your concern about what documents would be required to establish identity is a good one; it could be birth certificates or social security cards from residents of the US, or visas, consular IDs, etc. from non-residents. I look forward to seeing the details, though.

Please vote: if you go to the link in the article, you'll see that the Yale Law School has done an extensive study on the legality of this issue. It is legal.

Also, concerning the tax issue that several have brought up: Many immigrants pay taxes through using an ITIN number (whether they are paid in cash or in check with taxes deducted), and I was surprised to find out in a New York Times article a few months back that undocumented immigrants are actually baling us out of our social security crisis by paying in billions of dollars to the social security system that they will never see paid out to them in the future. Also, don't forget that they still pay sales tax. It's actually beneficial for undocumented immigrants to pay their taxes by establishing residency and showing that they want to be a part of our community, so I hope people will continue encouraging them to do so.

Posted by: New Haven | May 8, 2007 4:20 PM

Just have to chime in here. Some people are attacking the people that are talking about Illegal Immigrants.

The Key word being ILLEGAL. These are not people that went through the process of getting here legally. These are people who climbed a fence, dug a hole, overstayed a visa etc.

I am the sone of two migrants that immigrated here.

There is a huge difference between someone here legally and one who is not.

Posted by: Lorca | May 8, 2007 4:21 PM

That's Great!!!! NEW HAVEN A SANTUARY CITY, ID for every one. Good Idea!!! This country has always been represent like a symbol to the point people come here. Why people don't go to Africa or Brazil? is because what this country is all about. To all That Anti-Immigrant and RACIST and Ignorant People, get over and bee more OPEN. This world is no a square that so fanny that people is blaming all the time to an immigrant, but lets talk about what is NAFTA... lets talk about the guest worker program, lets talk about how much money is spending those republicans to the WAR in Iraq. $ 10.000. dollar an hour, that so sad your so self fish and so ignorant about the really life to be an immigrant this country is a country of Immigrants. Good for the Mayor i wish he will become a President in a Future!!!! Viva los inmigrantes....!!!!!!!!

Posted by: bexter | May 8, 2007 4:40 PM

Hey, lets be real. New Haven was founded on the blood, sweat, and tears of immigrant workers, both with and without papers. To discuss the issue of immigration intelligently, we should first examine the ACTUAL law and the ACTUAL situation on the ground. First, it's not a criminal offense to come into the US without documents. Second, most immigrants pay taxes. Third, the economy is heavily dependant on immigrant labor for it's very survival.
Just take a second to consider the orwellian logic that goes into believing that immigrants are a threat or a burden on our society. Anti-immigrant bigots like to claim that immigrant workers steal the jobs of native born workers. That's a silly enough statement on it's own, since employees hardly ever get to decide where they can find a job. It gets even sillier, however when it is simultaneously concluded that immigrant workers take massive ammounts of money in social services. How is it possible that immigrants could be responsible for both taking all the jobs and taking all the money from social services? Since neither statement holds up to the light of critical thought, it's easy to conclude from this exercise that even if one could believe one of these lies, they can't both be true.
The city-wide IDs will help to protect some our city's most vulnerable residents. It will allow people of all backgrounds, immigrant and native-born alike to participate more fully in our community. I live in New Haven, and I plan on getting one these IDs as soon as they're available.

Posted by: Edward_H | May 8, 2007 4:49 PM

Another pitiful election year ploy from the mayor. First his tax freeze for the elderly, now he is courting the votes of legalized American citizen voters, their families and those who prefer an open border policy. Kudos to the left wing press for helping the Mayor and others blur the distiction between legal immigration and illegal immigration. What is next on your liberal agenda? How about calling drug dealers "unlicensed pharmacists". In many circles drug addiction is labeled a "disease". Aren't these young urban entrepreneurs just providing medicine to the sick?

Charlie
"To all the people who hate immigrants, get a life."

Not one person before you has posted anything hateful about immigrants. People are posting valid concerns about illegal immigration. Do you understand the difference?

Posted by: Ralph Rechtenberg | May 8, 2007 4:56 PM

The accusations of hatred for immigrants are extraordinary. If there is anything we "hate," it is illegal activity.

For the benefit of non-voting law-dodgers, the city of New Haven would flout federal law. We should instead see the Mayor's administration being pro-active about DENYING benefits to illegal immigrants.

Posted by: Martin | May 8, 2007 4:58 PM

If you want to see an example of political courage, look no further than these ID cards and Mayor DeStefano.

Kudos to Kica for getting it done.

And shame on all the haters who don't realize - or don't care - that they're essentially just a cliche... projeting all their anxiety onto our newest neighbors and blaming them for all of society's problems.

Posted by: nfjanette | May 8, 2007 5:30 PM

And shame on all the haters who don't realize - or don't care - that they're essentially just a cliche... projeting all their anxiety onto our newest neighbors and blaming them for all of society's problems.

Tell me - who are the "haters", the people that have a position against illegal immigration, or those that have been insulting them and making up absurd lies about their position?

First, consider this: what if some people, such as myself, are against facilitating illegal immigration because we believe the best legal protection for someone can only come through properly obtained residency? Where is the hatred in that position?

Now, consider this: what if some people, such as myself, are against facilitating illegal immigration because we believe it allows businesses to exploit both the illegal and legal residents by driving down wages and working conditions? Where is the hatred in that position?

Finally, consider this: the claim that illegal workers are a net gain into the tax system / budget is an absurd idea. When making such a calculation, one would also have to include the illegal economy (cash wages - therefore no tax revenue) that can't be tracked, and also the impact of job loss for native workers - often minority urban residents - as a cost of social services that are paid for by the federal/state/local budgets. Where is the hatred in that position?

Posted by: guest | May 8, 2007 5:55 PM

I have put this concern out there several times and no one is answering it at all.

What kind of due diligence was done on this????
Did everyone do their homework thoroughly?

Did everyone ask questions that covered as many possible scenarios as they could think of to see if there was a chance that the card put immigrants at risk???

Did any lawyers go over this, lawyers in different practice areas?

Was it submitted to any legal association, or the Yale law school, (since some of the activists backing it are from Yale)?

Some questions I have are:

Under what circumstances would the city's repository of ID records be disclosable?

Under what scenarios would they be likely to be discoverable in legal proceedings Immigrants might be involved in?

Can Homeland Security legally require the city to hand them over?

That is just off the top of my head without researching anything and I would like to hear the backers of the ID talk about it. So far, I am hearing baby talk instead of real hardcore disclosure about the risks or about the protections against certain risks, if any are in place.

If a thorough due diligence was done, disclose it! If it hasn't been done, how irresponsible!

Posted by: guest | May 8, 2007 6:32 PM

To those who are hooking their arguments on the issue of "illegal" immigrants.

You should know that this argument is somewhat erroneous.

For instance, immigrants seeking political asylum who can't get it before they get here, get here any way they can, legal or not.

They apply for political asylum after they get here.

Despite clear procedures for determininig who should qualify for asylum, the incompetence of many of those determining it are well documented as is the cultural resistance to granting legitimate cases within the agency. The illegal use of quotas applied to asylum occurs too.

That's just one example. You should understand a little more about what pepople go through to get here, and how the law can play tricks. the barriers are daunting.

I am the same person who posted the query about doing due diligence on the ID cards. I am concerned about it. Why has there been no discussion of this from those sponsoring the card? If these organizations are reading this, please address it. Thanks

Posted by: guest | May 8, 2007 6:44 PM

OK, one more comment, then I am done.

We should all be aware, that this ID effort is happening during a time when almost unprecedented raids are going on in other parts of the country to round up illegals. Google stories on this out west, and elsewhere. The target is Latin Americans, and it is happening in cities that are totally against it, so don't think that our intentions necessarily matter -- these are federal issues not under local control.

Google Raid, El Paso, immigrants and read how angry the mayor was about a raid there. New offices were opened up and staffed to perform these intensive raids, so, yes, I am concerned that the good intentions behind this ID card could put people at risk, and again, I harp on due diligence - I think everyone has a right to know how thoroughly the risks were analyzed.

Don't forget that a couple years ago, it was discovered that Connecticut was being used as a pilot project location for detaining immigrants who in the past would not have been detained. This went on for a while before it was discovered and reported.

Thanks.

Posted by: Wjay | May 8, 2007 6:59 PM

This is the jeopardy answer:

The city's new plan for a municipal ID, unveiled in a broadly re-imagined form, will be everything to everyone -- a debit card, credentials for minors, a way to pay the parking meter, take out a library book, or get a discount at the golf course. Oh, and it may help immigrants avoid being robbed.

This is the jeopardy Question for $2000.00:
John... who is featured on the face of this card?

Why does it not mention assist in applying for legal status??

Since when does complying with federal and state law make one a HATER?

Posted by: Brenda | May 8, 2007 7:11 PM

I am new to New Haven, so I know very little about the political games or social ills here. However, I do believe that giving i.d. cards is not going to make the situation any worse. If you are worried about illegal immigrants, what exactly about these i.d. cards is going to make the situation worse in your minds? Illegal immigrants are here - that is a fact that you cannot change. Do you believe that not allowing them to take a book out of the library is going to make them think twice and go home? Do you believe that allowing them to get a book from the library might actually help improve their lives and therefore the lives of others around them?

I realize that I am only addressing one minor issue, but I just don't understand what denying them this card would do to further the cause of "anti-illegal immigration".

I also want to address the issue of "flout[ing] federal law." If you read the excerpts from the Yale study, you would see that the i.d. cards are not contrary to state or federal law. I'm sure that there are many other issues that could be addressed intelligently by someone who is actually versed in these issues - please, step forward and write a comment.

Posted by: pinkbicycle | May 8, 2007 7:26 PM

I imagine if this were say the early 1800's when this Country was debating to end slavery. There were some who thought slavery was a bad thing and set out to do so against great personal expense. The cause was so great that America in it's infancy stages went to war with herself. Two sides of the same coin. Slaves aren't human, they are property. Why should they have rights and freedom--send them back to Africa. Fast foward into a new millenium and we still have not learned the lessons of the past...we only have to look back to see that we are so wrong on this immigration issue. America is a country of users. We want them--immigrants to work in our restaurants, on our farms, vineyards, clean our homes, rent our dirty nasty unsafe housing, we want to deny them access to anything we believe they don't deserve and yet we wave a flag in support of a mighty nation who's very existence was built on the backs of immigrants.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | May 8, 2007 8:22 PM

nfjanette great post and you are right.
CT Lawyer thanx for you comment and Frank thank you for the reminder!

but on a moral level are we suppose to kick out all the immigrants that are here illegally?? That is never going to happen there are millions. Nationally they are trying to figure out a way to allow them to stay. This is not to far down the road.
In the Meantime we have people (flesh and blood) being robbed, raped and being taken advantage of on so many levels. Can we just sit back and let that happen? All this is, is a card that lets them put money in a bank account so they are not targets. It give them a sense of belonging so that they may not be afraid to call the police if they have been harmed. That is such a small thing to us but it is such a big thing to them.
I do understand the argument "the key word is illegally" but they are here and they have had children here a lot of our immigrants that are here illegally have lived here for years and are now part of our communities, can not turn our backs on them.

Do we need tighten the boarder ...yes
Do we need to keep better taps on people that come here with student and worker visas yes..

But to tell people that I have live here for years who's children go to school with our children, sorry you have to go ...that just does not sit well with me.

Posted by: mike star | May 8, 2007 8:42 PM

I am all for the card and for this City being an immigrant sanctuary. This whole illegal immigration debate hinges on relativity. Many years ago this country - the one so many of the previous responders allegedly stand for- was pushed forward by wave after wave of illegal immigrants.

That the City of New Haven (there is so much to a name, isn't there?) is now moving forward with this, shows that there is a political will to reverse the hemorrage of "former" residents moving out of this state in droves by allowing a population that is eager to work for the City and the State, not to mention the Country. Besides, this whole concept shows more than just political will, it shows a political intelligence that is seeking to legalize the next important tax base for this City.

Mike Star

Posted by: Esbe | May 8, 2007 9:36 PM

This move by the mayor takes real political courage -- and if you don't believe it just re-read the comments on this page.

Border control is a good idea, but illegal immigrants are human beings living in our midst, mostly doing society's scutwork. Their children, often American citizens by birth, go to our schools and will grow up to be our neighbors and co-workers. Our urban neighborhoods are being keep vibrant by immigrant populations, legal and not. Since the fact is that -- unless we turn ourselves into a police state -- they aren't leaving, I am in favor of city's sensible and modest plan to offer access to libraries and basic city services.

Posted by: carolina | May 8, 2007 10:25 PM

I'm an american citizen and immigrant as many of those who attack the illegal migration to this country. But I understand that many of those who cross the border are the poor -colateral damage- created by the Free Trade Agreement that destroy the agriculture down south and jobs in United States. Them, why we should closed our doors on them, if they are the creation of our "American Way of Life".
And of course, the argument by "some"against our brown brothers and sister is racist. If those "Illegal" were white as many illegal Canadians and Europens, I guess it would not be much discussion about a simple ID.

Posted by: Fair Havener | May 8, 2007 10:52 PM

I applaud the city for doing something positive to deal with the current immigration situation as it has affected our community. As someone who works with documented and undocumented immigrants on a daily basis, I cannot express my full frustration at an immigration policy that contradicts itself over and over again.

Our country undeniably needs low-wage workers to fuel our economy and yet we severely limit the number of workers that can apply for residency to work those kinds of jobs. Employers, on the other hand, provide jobs everywhere to undocumented immigrants at ridiculously low wages if they pay them anything at all. At the end of the day, undocumented immigrants are not here to take advantage of tax payers. They are here to work. The common 70+ hour jobs that they take prove it. Not to mention the fact that we, Americans, are partly responsible for the mess that is Latin America and some of the other countries that force immigrants to look for economic opportunities elsewhere. We are all complicit in the neoliberal policies that have, for the most part, only perpetuated a history of oppression, exploitation, and racism in many countries.

How can we not support a simple Municipal ID that can help protect hundreds, if not thousands, of our immigrant neighbors (yes, undocumented immigrant neighbors) from robbery? It is preventing crime in our city and does not claim to legalize them in any way! The card can also make all of our lives a little bit simpler.

As for those who still question the tax contributions made by immigrants, I recommend reading the recent NYTimes article on the rise in ITIN numbers. Between 1996 and 2003, over $50 billion have been reported in tax liability by ITIN filers and that number just keeps on growing. Also, as someone who has helped ITIN filers pay taxes, many many workers earn cash but still report those earnings and pay taxes every year.

Posted by: Linda de Rivera | May 8, 2007 10:53 PM

My grandfather, on my father's side, was illegal. But at that time no one cared. Everyone had to work hard for a living, and every other person was illegal too or knew one!! They didn't have personal computers in their home, DSL internet, and hours to spend free each day spweing off their not so constructive ideas in an electronic ether called the internet. He worked hard, was a productive member of society, his union, his family. He paid for his son's college education, the first kid in the family ever to go to and complete college, my father, who went on in CT to build the first modem and provide thousands of jobs doing so in the high tech industry in CT. My father later went on to support me, the first woman in the family to go to college. And I knew and loved my grandfather BECAUSE NO ONE EVEN THOught to deport him.
Then, in my grandad's age...they didn't spend too much time worrying about who was legal or not because every one except the Native Americans were immigrants and the vast members of communities and families were not "with papers." Need I remind any of you 'anti-ID card nuts' of the lovely term "WOP." "With Out Papers" a.k.a the "illegal immigrant" of the early 1900s.

But you know what, despite ALL of the many industrious "illegals" of my granfather's age, in fact because most of them, we have, a legacy of organized labor in this country. Notice most of the largest and powerful unions which created true improvements in working people's standard of living in this country were from the "bookends" of the US, the coasts and the ports. New York, Boston, up & down the eastern seaboard, and in California. Immigrants from other countries, legal and not legal were the shoulders on which strikes were taken together and won. Same with the factories in detroit, Lawrence, Ma, and throughout the Midwest. Without people from other cultures and other countries with already developed labor movements, the US would have even lesser of a labor movement and thereby have lower wages and benefits. That would leave us working people who are now considered "legal" and supposively "assimilated" children of immigrants, NONE of us would have a weekend to enjoy with our children, a 40 hour work week, pensions and high wages in construction, meat packing plants, the auto industry, or most of the higher paying trades in any port and industrial city on the coasts of this country. Immigrants, legal or not, built the labor movement in this country significantly. While some people then, like now, gave into the concept of concentration camps for Japanese immigrants, (now - it's detaining immigrants without papers indefinately & waiting for the "Shangrila" of mass deportation of millions of undocumented people) the country finally realized that such things just didn't work. And didn't make agri-business rich either.

So look, legal/illegal. Let's be real. It used to not be LEGAL to consider black people full human beings in the US, and therefore OK to beat black people when people went to register to vote. It was LEGAL to bar me, a woman, from voting. People have ALWAYS come to this country illegally. The question isn't what is currently LEGAL. The question must be by what morals are we going to construct our laws? Let us discuss this, not just "legality." Just because there is a moron as President who gives police the enthusiasm (and legal permission/amnesty to violate constitutional rights) to unilaterally abuse protestors rights to free speech in this county by encourging the behavior we saw last week from the Los Angeles and New York police, it doesn't mean we should allow such crass inhumanity to make us think the only question is do these people have papers stamped by some- regular-Joe-of-a-border-patrol-man in San Diego whose own mother is probably Mexican, not exactly legal, and father whose anglo and is an american citizen. Come ON.

The vast majority of illegal immigrants in this country pay sales taxes, gas tax, AND the medicade taxs and SSI taxes of the AMERICAN CITIZENS who sold them their social security number. They build strong communities, are very children oriented, work long hard hours, don't rely on government hand outs BECAUSE THEY DON"T HAVE ACCESS TO MUCH OF ANY, and raise children who are eager to participate in this country, its culture, and economy. So let's make all of us safer, more secure, not walking around with wads of cash for other actual citizens to rob, and work on making this country free of war and better for all of our children. And let's make sure the 40 hour week COMES BACK.

If you really care about the wages of american workers you should want illegal immigrants to have a path to citizenship and an ID that keeps them from feeling unsafe in their own neighborhood. If a person feels the constant fear of deportation, like he or she does NOW under Bush and these stupid anti-Latino raids from ICE, she's not going to join you in a fight to better your wages or hers, her medical benefits or your pension. AND YOU CAN BET THE BOSS IS HAPPY ABOUT THAT. And making Millions of illegal immigrants leave the country just to enter legally will cost more than the stupid war in IRAQ has already cost, monetarily - it ain't happening. Get real. Give a real pathway to citizenship, the ID is a helpful step that makes our communities safe. Besides, I welcome an ID for me too, so I can toss the library card, may quarters for the meters, and hopefully dodge that miserable BOOT which tags my car downtown from time to time.

Posted by: KAMB | May 8, 2007 11:24 PM

Once again, I don't understand how the majority of posters on this topic can't read. WHO HATES IMMIGRANTS? Not me. Who hate ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS? Me. Thats right, I do. I am the offspring of leagl immigrants who have legally come here and my failoy has worked their was up through the chain and chased the American Dream. I was taught to obey the law. These ILLEGAL immigrants already got off on the wrong foot when they've come here ILLEGALLY.

my original post.
I thought Connecticut residents get valid real I.D.'s from the Dept. of Motor Vehicle. You can get a driver license and if you're under age or you dont want a drivers license you can get a valid legitimate CT ID from the DMV. Why would the city produce costly ID's to tax payers and in addition to that hand them out to ILLEGAL immigrants. People of New Haven can use a DMV ID with their New Haven residents address on it to get the same benefits and usage as these bogus New Haven ILLEGAL Immigrant ID's. And how does one get an ID? What type of valid credentials must be produced to obtain one to prove the person is who they say they are? i.e. What type of ID would an ILLEGAL immigrant need to prove they are who they are to get a city ID? All in all it's a joke that the city and the mayor would agree to use tax paying dollars to produce something for ILLEGAL immigrants under the guise that its an Elm City residential ID for library usage, downtown shopping usage, etc., when the lawful legal New Haven residents can use their CT DMV license or DMV ID with their New Haven address to get the same benefits as the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ID.

Posted by: Charlie Pillsbury | May 8, 2007 11:30 PM

I think municipal ID cards are a great idea and an excellent way to welcome the stranger and sojourner among us. New Haven has been welcoming immigrants (both documented and undocumented) since 1638...369 years, and I hope we continue to do so for at least another 400 years. None of us would be living here if either we or one of our ancestors had not been so welcomed. This initiative makes me proud to say I'm from New Haven.

Posted by: bugupit | May 9, 2007 12:08 AM

Now the City of New Haven is giving its subculture official status, great. All this (laminated color photo card), falling home values and a tax increase too? How special, thank you John and Carl! I see this as just more contortions to accommodate those who refuse to join us in society and fail to raise their kids with any sense of social responsibility. They issued downtown money a few years ago, to give to panhandlers that they could spend on non-alcoholic sustenance. Didn't it fail from lack of interest on the part of the recipient? Hey, the bus goes to DMV in Hamden, right? My tax dollars already paid for their ID program, why another? I am pretty neutral on the "Illegal Immigrant" debate, but special programs that continue to divide us in an effort to make groups feel special in this city where every time you turn around one group or another is saying they are Disrespected, this does endear me, nor does it move us forward, it is not Progressive.

Posted by: nhrr | May 9, 2007 12:50 AM

Several concerns about "the card"

1) If this card has sophisticated anti-forgery features, I find it hard to believe that the card can be produced, distributed and administered for all city residents for only $236K. The example looks like nothing more than a simple laminated card. Easy forgery would make this card another avenue for illegal activity, especially if one can open a bank account and purchase goods with one. Who guarantees the losses to a business if the card is forged?

2) How can you open a bank account without a social security or tax ID number. Even kids doing school banking have their accounts linked to a parent's social security number. Without proper safeguards, I can imagine several ways that this idea can be twisted into supporting an illegal underground economy within the city. If you are "illegal", what documents do you possess that guarantee your identity...and how adept will City of New Haven officials be at spotting forged foreign IDs?

3) If one assumes that ILLEGAL immigrants want to "become an integral part of society", then this card should be the beginning of their road to legal status. I disagree that their information should not be shared. Refusing to share this informaiton will perpetuate their illegal status and provide no incentive to move to a more responsible and legal status. Share the information with agencies that will help to move them to legal status. Also, wouldn't it be illegal for the City to collect and possess information about illegal immigrants but not share it with the Federal government?

4) The mayor's name should not appear on the card (except his own). The City of New Haven is providing the card and status...not the mayor.

5) Can anyone in city government absolutely guarantee that this is completely legal within the current Federal statutes? Would hate for New Haven to invest $$$ in this program only to have it stopped dead in its tracks by a Federal injunction.

Posted by: An Immigrant Myself | May 9, 2007 6:49 AM

I am an immigrant myself, AND a legal US citizen. Rather than spend money giving illegal immigrants a crutch, why not spend the money in a way that will help people become legal immigrants? We should not continue to develop new laws a policies for people who do not follow the current ones. We should help fix the problem, not put a band aid on it.

Posted by: Stephen | May 9, 2007 7:45 AM

If people would simply consider the proposal for what it is - a commitment to the safety and dignity of all citizens - then some of the frenzy around it might be ended. Of course, there are those for whom the frenzy is the only thing that matters. For the rest of us, this municipal identification is a means to community in the best sense.

Posted by: ZZT | May 9, 2007 12:40 PM

If I were an illegal immigrant, the last thing I would want to do is to give the government, any government, my personal information.

Databases are "lost" or stolen all the time from the government. Remember the VA computer that was stolen? There were massive warnings to check our credit histories because someone stole a laptop from a VA official's home. Current amry soldiers in Iraq were warned that their information was stolen. Funny, we are protecting the world, and the government could not even safeguard our personal data.

What would stop Bush from ordering the INS to come in at lift that database from the city? Didnt the nazis use machines manufactured by IBM in their round up of Jews?

People who dont want these illegals to get the card are getting all worked up. Do ya think the illegals will use these id cards? Common, dont get all worked up.

Posted by: NoMoreBlatherDotCom | May 9, 2007 1:14 PM

Could the NHI explain why it keeps deleting my comments, especially since the content of my comments was based on a previous NHI article? You can see the comment I left here.

Since the NHI apparently doesn't want to do real reporting on this issue, I urge everyone else to fill the gap.

Posted by: bexter | May 9, 2007 2:25 PM

I find it alarming that so many people are for increased border security. Right now, the government is building an 800 mile fence along the US Mexico border. In spite of recent measures to increase border security like Operation Gatekeeper, the number of people crossing into the US hasn't gone down. Unfortunately, what has occurred as aresult is the deaths of over 2,000 people within the last decade, attempting to cross in more and more remote and dangerous areas of the desert.
I agree that we should talk about how people can come here legally, without risking life and limb, and provide a way for immigrant workers to obtain citizenship and legal status. The thing is that in the interim, we have a choice between deporting everyone who doesn't have papers, which would be both barbearic and impossible, and finding solutions for people who are here, who live in our neighborhoods, participate in our communities, and deserve to be treated like human beings. People keep talking about the "problem" of immigration as if undocumented immigrants themselves are the problem when the real problem is that our government, which is heavily dependant on the labor of immigrants, hasn't seen fit to grant our immigrant sisters and brothers basic human status.
We should be a community that welcomes immigrants,and we should be proud that our city has taken some steps to ensure this.
No human being is illegal!

Posted by: cedarhillresident | May 9, 2007 2:44 PM

NoMoreBlatherDotCom So are all illegal immigrants Mexican??? hmmm at least that is what I got out of that post. lets see..... they are not chinese or korean or polish, african, jamacain, south american ..this list can go on. Your comment singles out a people and I found it to be a little bit off.

Posted by: NoMoreBlatherDotCom | May 9, 2007 3:08 PM

cedarhillresident: I suggest you read the post again and again, because you clearly did not understand anything I wrote.

On a side note, why is cedarhillresident's link regular, and mine is nofollow'ed?

Posted by: Ralph Rechtenberg | May 10, 2007 7:47 AM

I asked the forum administrator to remove the ad hominem attacks made against me by Linda De Rivera. However, that was not done. More concerning to me is that my post requesting removal was not even put up on this board.

Posted by: Paul Bass | May 10, 2007 9:05 AM

Ralph -- I tried communicating with you about this via e-mail. The e-mail address you listed with your comment didn't work; my message was sent back. I'd like to discuss it if you could type in your real e-mail address.

Posted by: guest | May 10, 2007 8:00 PM

Paul -- Can you do a followup story on the due diligence issue?

I am the poster who posted the three prior messages from "guest"

There are pro-immigrant people worried about the downside of this card.

(not to mention citizens who aren't keen on using one card that allows city hall to track your whereabouts by checking where you parked in the last month, from swiping the card in meters. Also, citizens who want to know if city hall could access your card record at the library, which would be huge no-no. )

Posted by: guest | May 10, 2007 10:26 PM

I would like everyone on the board to drop this pro and anti immigration squabble long enough to look at far more important issues this ID card is raising. Then everyone can return to the squabble better informed.

Paul Bass provided a link on this page to the 2005 report by La Junta which contains the due diligence analysis of the card that I have been asking about. It is the link highlighted as the "original idea" above. There is only one comment on its page, so I guess many of us didn't click on it. I spologize for not noticing it.

I think the central issues in the report should be more in the forefront of articles covering this card. Most of what I have read has been reports on publicity promoting the card. The report is a serious essay advocating for the card. It lays out serious concerns and a moral and political argument.

If Americans don't want the only publicly broadcasted theories on moral philosophy to be coming from fundamentalist religious literalists, then maybe they should be more courageous and more trusting about putting forth moral political arguments to the public instead of wrapping them up in simplified, and even deceptive propaganda.

Let's look, for instance, at claims about the security of the ID database in city hall. There are no guarantees, the report states, just the probability that Homeland Security will not make a blanket request for the info, for instance. This likely is a good guess, as far as is foreseeable. Democrats are back in power, the Bush era fanaticism is waning.

As always, federal, state and local law enforcement will have an almost unconditional right to access individual information as they always can in conducting investigations of individuals, citizen or not, and the ID card will be no exception. The report acknowledges this. Other than that, there will be some abuses and compromises of information; there always are.

The DOJ was heavily criticized earlier this year for abusing its powers under the Patriot Act after a self-published report listing its own misuse of National Security letters to investigate people it had no business or reason to investigate. Its just one more bit of information obtainable in any legitimate or illigitimate investigation and we know both kinds of investigations go on.

But with that kind of authority, we might as well be fatalistic about it. You don't know, you can't know, until we can get these powers rescinded, might as well not sweat it every day.

It is clear however, that if it were not for its assistance to immigrants, the advocates of this card might be against it as a mild negative, yet another government ID card. I wonder if some of the advocates resist grocery store cards because they chip away at privacy. It is unusual for progressives to advocate for more ID cards. There are no shortage of essays in American history of progressives attacking ever increasing government data collecting.

The report makes a good point that in the case of an investigation of an individual, they would be accessing lots of other data on the person, such as bank accounts, property holdings and so on. The info on the card is nothing compared to what else is available under such a scenario.

City Hall would not be in the position that libarians are in. It would not take an activist stance against law enforcement requests for information on individual cards, only if there was a request for all or most of the databse.

It is too easy to erroneously read an assumption into the report that the DOJ or Homeland Security only conducts legitimate investigations of individuals. I don't mean to suggest that the report maintains this, it simply doesn't address it. It isn't really an omission -- it is not the focus of the report, but still, people ought to know.

---I understand what they are trying to do, and I think at bottom it is a good project. But lets say what it actually is.---

---It basically is an activist project. New Haveners are being asked to engage in activism or moral action. Let's appeal honestly.---

---We have heard a lot of this: This is a library, banking, parking and debit card that makes life convenient to New Haveners and is totally secure.---

---The truth, in essence, is this: We are appealing to New Haveners to stand in moral solidarity with immigrants in our midst by getting the municipal ID card, which has pros and cons for you.---

All we got about the risks, was that the info will be locked in a file cabinet. People deserve more than statements that manipulative and misleading.

Of course, thanks to Paul, there was the link to the report. Thank you Paul.

When is politics ever justice?

Posted by: carolina | May 11, 2007 4:32 PM

I believed that "guest" or I should said -Philip E. Berns- is upset because no one ask him his opinion or permission about the city ID. With all his opinions, looks that he is working on the side of the anti-immigrant groups. And that is a shame. I remember when he was working for the right for immigrants to have a driver license or the last campaign for the instate tuition for immigrant students and what I don't remember is Phil asking all this questions that he has in the New Haven City ID project. You should know that this idea ( the ID) came from the New Haven community and not from the activist community. Maybe you should be doing the same thing or something in Stamford and not trying to divide our community. What about the project with the jornaleros, that according to some sources from Stamford, your have destroyed. What about your relationship with all the immigrant groups from CT? Why they don't like anymore? Maybe you should be more humble and apologized for your attitude so arrogant that insult our community.

Posted by: Bill F. | May 11, 2007 10:34 PM

Where does this Mayor get off? He is violating at least five different sections of USCODE! He is betraying the entire working class indigenous population of this region by ringing a virtual worldwide dinner bell! Undocumented workers not yet in this country and many who are; will flock to New Haven with the spectre of getting this one of a kind , "legitimate ID". This massive influx of cheap labor will drive down wages, flood the labor pool and knock many more Americans out of their current jobs. This ID is rewarding illegal activity on an official level. Afterall these people have broken 2 or perhaps three laws just to be here. 1) Crossing the border illegally-- A FELONY, 2) Remaining here - A MISDEMEANOR and 3) Likely Identity Theft --also A FELONY. Isn't it likely that City Hall's passion towards this issue has clouded its collective judgement?

Posted by: Wjay | May 12, 2007 5:46 PM

Let's see if we can put an end to this raging debate. Below you will find the edited Federal law regarding this subject. The federal law was passed in 2005, however it will not have enforcement tolls until 2009. Sorry, even my edit is lengthy.

The REAL ID Act of 2005 is Division B of an act of the United States Congress titled Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for Defense, the Global War on Terror, and Tsunami Relief, 2005, Pub.L. 109-13, 119 Stat. 231, enacted 2005-05-11). This legislation was intended to deter terrorism by:

Establishing the national standards for state-issued driver's licenses and non-driver's identification cards;
Waiving laws that interfere with construction of physical barriers at the borders;
Updating and tightening the laws on application for asylum and deportation of aliens for terrorist activity;
Introducing rules covering "delivery bonds" (rather like bail bonds, but for aliens that have been released pending hearings);
Funding some reports and pilot projects related to border security; and
Changing visa limits for temporary workers, nurses, and Australian citizens.
Contents

[edit] Legislative history
The Real ID act started off as H.R. 418, which passed the House[1] and went stagnant. It was then attached as a rider on a military spending bill (H.R. 1268) by Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner (R) of Wisconsin (the author) and was voted 100-0[2]) . It was signed into public law on May 11, 2005[3].

On March 2, 2007 it was announced that enforcement of the Act has been postponed for two years[4]. The provisions of the bill will be delayed from going into effect until December 2009.

[edit] Minimum nationwide standards for state driver's licenses or ID cards, employment, and banking
In the United States, driver's licenses are issued by the states, not by the federal government. States also issue voluntary identification cards for non-drivers. States set the rules for what data is on the card and what documents must be provided in order to obtain one. States also maintain databases of licensed drivers and ID-card holders.

Driver's License Implications

The REAL ID Act's implications for driver's licenses and ID-cards is detailed in Title II of the Act. Title II of REAL ID--"Improved Security for Driver's License' and Personal Identification Cards"--repeals the provisions of a December 2004 law that established a cooperative state-federal process to create federal standards for driver's licenses and instead directly imposes prescriptive federal driver's license standards.
The NCSL's REAL ID Act of 2005 Driver's License Summary[5] details the following provisions of the Act's driver's license title:

Repeal of 9/11 Commission Implementation Act DL/ID Provisions
Minimum Standards for Federal Use
DL/ID Document Standards
Minimum DL/ID Issuance Standards
Verification of Documents
Immigration Requirements
Security and Fraud Prevention Standards
Data Retention and Storage
Linking of Databases
Grants to States
Authority
After December 31, 2009, "a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a state to any person unless the state is meeting the requirements" specified in the Real ID Act. States remain free to also issue non-complying licenses and ID's, so long as these have a unique design and a clear statement that they cannot be accepted for any Federal identification purpose. The federal Transportation Security Administration is responsible for security check-in at airports, so bearers of non-compliant documents would no longer be able to travel on common carrier aircraft without additional screening[6].

In addition, the federal Social Security Administration, (42 U.S.C. § 666(28)), requires the States to maintain a new hire directory. Employers would no longer be able to accept, or ultimately hire, bearers of non-compliant documents for employment.

Also, financial institutions are required to assist the Federal Parent Locator Service, ((42 U.S.C. § 666(17)). Financial institutions would require compliant documents from all customers. Bearers of non-compliant documents would be denied financial or banking services.

Additional federal and state agencies who will require compliant documents are listed, in part, in (42 U.S.C. § 666.

The national license/ID standards cover:

What data must be included on the card;
What documentation must be presented before a card can be issued; and
How the states must share their databases.
Strictly speaking, many of these requirements are not new. They replace similar language in Section 7212 of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 (Pub.L. 108-458), which had not yet gone into effect before being repealed by the Real ID Act.

[edit] Data requirements
Each card must include, at a minimum, the person's full legal name, signature, date of birth, gender, driver's license or identification card number. It also includes a photograph of the person's face and the address of principal residence. It is required to have physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes.

It will use common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements (the details of which are not spelled out, but left to the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of Transportation and the states, to regulate).

[edit] Documentation required before issuing a license or ID card
Before a card can be issued, the applicant must provide the following documentation[7]:

A photo ID, or a non-photo ID that includes full legal name and birthdate.
Documentation of birthdate.
Documentation of legal status and Social Security number
Documentation showing name and principal residence address.
Digital images of each identity document will be stored in each state DMV database.

[edit] Linking of license and ID card databases
Each state must agree to share its motor vehicle database with all other states. This database must include, at a minimum, all the data printed on the state drivers' licenses and ID cards, plus drivers' histories (including motor vehicle violations, suspensions, and points on licenses). Any state that does not link its database, containing records on all drivers and ID holders, to the database of the other states loses its federal funding.

Posted by: Luz | May 13, 2007 9:02 AM

Bravo! Finally those who work hard have access to some real services. I am happy as a New Haven resident to take part in this plan, and hope to see more services added in the future. Many of the people I work with who have overstayed on their visa work hard and put their two cents in as I do and don´t have access right now would benefit greatly from such a program. Congrats to those who have made it possible.

Posted by: bexter | May 14, 2007 1:33 AM

While it's true that there are laws against being in the US without extreemly difficult to obtain documents, some laws are so unjust, so unfair, so harmfull, and so frequently used to infringe on people's civil rights that they must be struck down. We used to have laws that allowed one person to own another person, that prevented women from voting, and that prohibited inter-racial marriages. Thank goodness these laws were struck down.
If we want to avoid a "race to the bottom" for wages (although it's highly unlikely that the city ID progam could cause this), we should not begin by scapegoating our sisters and brothers who come here to work. We should begin by demanding full legalization and the right to citizenship for ALL US workers. Wages are dragged down not by immigrants, but by bosses who exploit the fact that undocumented workers don't have the same rights as citizens to increse their profits by paying these workers lower wages. Instead of allowing ourselves to be sucked into a divide and conquer strategy in which we all loose out, why not bring back the phrase that won US workers so many gains in the first place? "An injury to one is an injury to all!" As long as we allow ourselves to be tricked into blaming our immigrant sisters and brothers for low wages, we will continue to clip our own wings, cut off our noses to spite our faces, and recieve less and less in exchange for our labor. As Benjamin Franklin put it: "We must all hang together, or we shall certainly all hang seperately."

Posted by: Bill F. | May 14, 2007 11:59 AM

Bexter...If wishes were horses beggers would ride.In a perfect world you would be right..However, and I don't wish to sound condescending, I certainly am not that way , but at best you come off as being naive at worst sanctomonious.Regardless of who triggers an economic crisis and makes blue collar wages plummet; trust me they will plummet... It's a pattern peculiar to sanctuary cities and particularly those industrial segments favored by illegals (construction, trucking,landscaping,meat packing et al.)
I accept part your statment as true... there are those who lose sleep at night trying to contrive ways to divide us.I however am not a globalist and I believe borders are there to protect us. I am a common man I live in a region of country where a common man can still make a fair wage.This is because we (Americans) share a similar lifestyle and have a relatively low population density and we have a robust enough (to a degree) economy to support us all.If we put say...20,000 new workers into that region, who are willing to work as hard for less pay (and please don't insult my intelligence by telling me they won't.) can not help but drag our wages down.
If America needs people she will welcome them... the people we're talking about are here illegally! We have enough problems already and we don't owe the world a living and if you feel differently feel free to give an illegal YOUR job..Do not feel free to give him your neighbor's job or mine!
Bill F. SCtIR

Posted by: guest | May 14, 2007 12:35 PM

Re Carolina's comment to Philip Berns, allegedly aka "guest"

I am not Berns, whoever he is.

I believe the ID Card is at bottom a good project and I am considering getting the card, to stand in moral solidarity with immigrants in our community, who, for lack of an ID, are vulnerable to crime and so on.

I had concerns about whether the card made immigrants more vulnerable. I finally found the report on this and wrote about it, above.

I think the PR spin on this card didn't provide an intelligent person with enough information to make a decision on whether to get the card, and I wrote about that.

The claims about the security of the information in the publicity on the card were simply false, but the report on the card by the advocates who proposed it, contains an accurate description of the legal safeguards and risks of the card. I am satisfied with that.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | May 14, 2007 3:30 PM

I agree with a lot of your last comment bexter but one.....to open the boarders for all to come in will not help the wages as far as I can see.

I am pro citizenship for undocumented workers presently in the states and I do feel by allowing them legal status, at the least would stop some of the abuse. But just because they become legal does not mean the jobs out there are going to change. They will have a legal right to fight it, but if there are no higher paying jobs they will still work those jobs. And then to allow a free flowing boarder please there will be even lower paying jobs and the jobs they have now will be good jobs.

Not even Canada has free flowing boarders. At least I don't think so.

If we open the boarders it would not be just Mexico .. it would be to china, Africa, south American. All places people would leave in a heart beat to come here just to work for our minimum wage. If we opened them it would be to all not just one group. And our country could not handle that.

Example: How would you feel if you were in there shoes.........

THEY (meaning the 100's of 1000's that come here the right way and the ones that are waiting to come here the right way)

THEY do not have the conventice of the boarder being right at there door.
THEY have no choose but to follow the rules and wait there turns. And then the people who cut in line get to stay in the front of the line.

If you were in the store in line a really long line and someone came walking by all of you that have been waiting there for 25 minutes would you be mad?? Would you or at least one person in that line say somethings???

Just wondering.

I always try to look at thing the way others may see them even if I do not agree.

Posted by: Mike | May 18, 2007 12:12 PM

I lost my passport, I don't have a driver's license, my student ID just snapped in half, and the DMV is a pain in the butt. I could really use a municipal ID :)