New Haven Independent

Posted by: charlie | June 13, 2007 10:40 AM

Great story. And I agree, the government should stop giving so many handouts to people who don't work and don't deserve it. New Haven gives out way more than its fair share and it's time to stop.

Posted by: eli | June 13, 2007 10:52 AM

yeah, great story. first, i'm sorry you can't afford to take care of all of the children you fathered back home. use birth control, and blame the catholic chruch for not encouraging responsible sexual activity. i've been practicing birth control now for over 20 years and don't have children i can't afford to take care of. second, we all want to make a better life for our families, that is why it is bad for my family that benjamin and his bretheren come here and use up my family's resources. third, you could at least keep the money made in the united states in the united states. and finally, you laugh at the fact you can't be kept out of the country, which is precicely why we need better enforcement. i feel for the families affected by the raids, but i feel more for my family. i support the raids, and hope they continue.

Posted by: concerned | June 13, 2007 11:23 AM

Charlie: I'm confused by your comments. What handouts are you talking about? And who isn't working hard? The story elaborated on how immigrants will do any work necessary and mostly of the worst kind - construction, cleaning, etc. No handouts have been given to this community, they're not eligible for financial aid for colleges, they still pay taxes on their income, and are unable to use many services. The only thing the ID program does is give them a form of ID and a chance to safely save their money in banks so that they won't have to worry with the threat of robberies. I don't undestand how this could be considered a handout and why it can be seen with such disdain.

Eli, please be more sympathetic with your remarks. I understand your concern for your family, and I ask that you understand this man's situation and his commitment to his own family. He might not have had access to such health services like birth control in Mexico, as many people go without any form of health care. He grew up barely having enough money for food, how could he provide himself with birth control? Also, how is he using up your family's resources? What money is he taking away from you? What services is he stealing?

You also talk about keeping the money made in the U.S. inside the country, I feel that this is unreasonable. Imagine working to provide for your family who is in another area or region, wouldn't you send the money that you could to them in order to support them? I feel that you have a strong commitment to your family and I would hope that you would do the same in that situation, and I wouldn't criticize your actions in trying to help them.

Lastly, I respect your opinion about the need to increase enforcement, but please recognize the ramifications of this. Read the sentence of the article again that says how many people die each year attempting to cross the border. Recognize that deporting all of the undocumented immigrants is both impossible and inhumane. I don't support the raids and I don't feel that you should either. These people are trying to do the same thing you are, provide for their families, and these raids and deportations only keep them from doing that.

Posted by: Simone kelly | June 13, 2007 12:10 PM

As I understand that, as human beings, we want the best for our families. It disturbs me, however, that the city government and many others advocate illegal immigration, government support and jobs for these immigrants who have committed a criminal act, while ex-convicts, parolees, etc. have committed a criminal act- many who have simply made mistakes and are looking to change their lives- are denied some jobs that are given to illegal immigrants.

There are many ex-convicts who are willing to work for those low wages and are still passed over for an illegal immigrant for the jobs. I have witnessed it many times.

Why is it that we condone the illegal acts of immigrants, yet provide no support for those Americans who have made mistakes? There is no second chance for many. It's a double standard that should be addressed.

Posted by: Bruce | June 13, 2007 3:22 PM

Now that is a brave man. Blame the government for not keeping secure borders if you have to, but don't blame people for trying to give their families a better life.

Posted by: westvillecharlie | June 13, 2007 3:35 PM

Dear Concerned, i believe the resources Eli refered to are police & fire(the more humans there are here, the larger the police presence needed & greater need for emt's and firemen) educational (we've got to school all of these children born to immigrants who do not practice birth control - which by the way they can learn while here.) The roads (ever try to quickly drive down grand avenue? we'll now you can, and you know what - it's kind of nice) the housing stock (more people + same amount of housing = higer rents for everyone) and yes, crime.
that's just off the top of my head. those of us with families to take care of can appreciate what it means to see them safe and healthy. i really can. but you have to take care of your own first. that means i can't have these folks here, the country can't have these folks here. why aren't we putting efforts to make mexico a more desireable place to live, and if the people are sending their money there, it doesn't get spent in new haven stores, there's no income tax collected to help maintain roads, schools, safety officers and such.
there's no vacancy right now. try back in 20 years or so. perhaps you can try china.

Posted by: Come On | June 13, 2007 4:59 PM

WestvilleCharlie,

If you even are from Westville, I have one thought with regard to your unbearable post. This quote "ever try to quickly drive down grand avenue? we'll now you can, and you know what - it's kind of nice," makes no sense whatsoever. IF you live in this city how can you believe that it is a good thing that a major commercial district is empty?

IF you live here how can you think that these businesses going under is going to be good for our tax base?

IF you do live here, think again, and you should be ashamed. If you don't live here then stop lying to us.

Posted by: concerned | June 13, 2007 7:15 PM

WestvilleCharlie,

Thanks for the response. I think you make some good points and I appreciate you elaborating on your concerns for the resources.

I have a lot of experiences with what you're talking about, and I'd like to offer my perspective. As far as education and health care, I mentor undocumented students at a local school and I volunteer at a local health clinic to assist undocumented immigrants without health insurance. I understand the difficulties faced in the health and education systems, and I also recognize your other concerns, but I don't think that the approach of "no vacancy" is a solution. Your comments on "learning birth control while they're here" are misleading. When they work such low-income jobs and barely have enough money to survive, there is rarely any ability to receive health insurance or means to receive birth control. At the clinic where I volunteer we provide those services to patients, but there are many more that don't have any access. You also speak about paying for services, but immigrants do contribute by paying taxes as well. That's why they have tax identification numbers. Yes, these services need to be provided, and we pay for them through taxes, but I don't believe that paying those taxes is too much to ask in order to provide services throughout the city.

I understand your desire to take care of your own, that's a normal response, but that desire shouldn't mean that you must get rid of so many other people. To say "this country can't have them here" is a very harsh response, and it doesn't offer any solutions. This city has a history of immigrants coming in search of better opportunities, whether from Italian, Puerto Rican, or Latino backgrounds. There has always been vacancy. To repeat, the idea of mass deportations of all of the undocumented immigrants is impossible and inhumane. I also feel that your other proposals such as "trying china" or "improving the situation in Mexico" aren't feasible either. There is already outcry over federal spending and the budget, how would people react to efforts to put money into Mexico directly? And I don't feel your facetious remarks about "trying China" are much appreciated, since this is a serious issue that involves many people throughout the city.

The fact is that we can have these men and women here, they are already here, and we can use programs like the Municipal IDs as solutions to improve the situation in our city. The use of IDs can lead to use of bank accounts, which can decrease crime and robberies, which can decrease crime rates and policing. With increased rights and savings can lead to better income, and with that can come increased ability to pay for taxes and services such as education and roads. With increased income can come better access to health care and options like birth control. I'm not saying that these results will happen automatically or easily, but they are a step in a positive direction. Responses such as stating that there is "no vacancy" or calling for raids and shouting "deport them" are not solutions - they do not solve any of the problems that you are concerned with. I feel that they only get in the way of attempts to provide help. It's time to stop acting selfishly and to react with compassion and a desire to improve the conditions of all people in the city.

Posted by: westvillecharlie | June 13, 2007 8:07 PM

hey come on!
alden ave, ten years now. born at st. raphael's in 1968. i work in fair haven heights, and it sucks to drive down grand ave anytime it's light out.
i made it home in 12 minutes yesterday, 13 today. yeah it's kind of nice.
i am not ashamed. it's my priority to take care of my family, then my neighbors, then my countrymen, then maybe the rest of the world. in that order.
i've yet to get past point a (my family) yet.
you should get off of that perch of yours and take care of your family. unless you've entered the u.s. illegally. then you should leave because you are commiting a criminal act.
xoxox
Charles

Posted by: Taxed To Death | June 13, 2007 11:34 PM

I'm glad his kids all got good educations and he was able to afford it because he's here illegally and working at better wages than Mexico. That doesn't change the fact that he's illegal or that he crashed our border, invaded our country so he could get better wages to send home. When his kids are grown and they're all educated, he'll leave and go back to Mexico. In the meantime, he will have been illegal the whole time, never lifted a finger to defend the country, paid little in taxes most likely except sales tax and maybe gas tax if he has a car. So how is that a good thing? And why should the City of New Haven embrace and condone such illegal behavior?

Posted by: concerned | June 14, 2007 11:48 AM

Taxed to Death,

I think you should reconsider some of your comments about immigration and taxes.

First, please refrain from your harsh rhetoric on immigration. You use phrases like "crashed our border" and "invaded our country" without fully understanding the situations people face. You and I don't know what this man had to do to arrive, but I can assure that it wasn't what one would imagine as "invading." Read the story again, notice how many people die each year while crossing. Realize that it is through harsh desert terrains that they cross and many that die perish from starvation or thirst. Please don't buy into the rhetoric of "invasions" and "aliens" that only tries to stigmatize a people, you're better than that.

Second, in regards to taxes and serving the country, more taxes are paid besides sales and gas, but income taxes as well. With tax identification numbers, undocumented workers can pay taxes on income and contribute to the public services provided in the city. I think that's a good thing. Also, you talk about defending the country, which I assume you mean military service. I would first point out that not many of us defend the country or perform military service in general. Then, if you look at those people who do make up the majority of our armed forces, especially those who are enlisted, you will notice that is a large amount of men and women from low socioeconomic and racial minority backgrounds. The young African-American and Hispanic men and women, the sons and daughters of immigrants are the ones serving in our military, and yet there are still people who stigmatize them, call them "invaders", and call for mass deportations. This has gone on for many years in this country - look at the riots and frustrations in African American and Mexican American communities post WWI and WWII, the unfair socioeconomic and racial bias in the draft in Vietnam, the many people with Spanish surnames on the front lines in Iraq.

I think you should reconsider your thoughts on taxes and defending the country before making such rash statements. Recognize the contributions these people make to the city and seek to improve the status of New Haven instead of calling to remove an entire community.