New Haven Independent

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | June 13, 2007 8:33 PM

Curtis Sliwa Is Comming To Town With His Guardian
Angels Give Me A Break He Is Nothing More Than A Snakeoil Opportunist And Husler. This Is The Same
Guy Who Admitted To Perpetrated A Few Hoaxes To Publicize The Angels. All I Can Say To You All Beware Of This Husler!!!

Posted by: nfjanette | June 13, 2007 9:22 PM

Black and Jews - and many other good people - will indeed be working together in this neighborhood. But, instead of holding press conferences to sing "Kumbyya" together, they will instead be walking the neighborhood acting as extra eyes and ears for the police. It's tougher work that will take more time and effort than just speaking to the press - but it's the work that will actually have a chance of making our streets safer for residents. The criminals don't see or care about the race, color, or creed of their victims - they've been equal opportunity in the selection of victims!

"We must join together to dialogue about the concerns and move toward a direct action to correct any false perception that we are being divided," declared the event's organizer, Minister Morris. "We realize that this is a small segment of our community that has decided that they want to go astray and bring about their own justice. But we will not have it."

The only division is that which is caused by such statements and the grandstanding involved. The fact is that both the victims of criminal violence in the Edgewood neighborhood as well as those interested in forming the active block watch come from many different racial/ethnic/religious groups. They are united by a commitment to try and improve safety for everyone in the neighborhood - a neighborhood in which many of those speaking at this event do not live. How nice of some of them to travel from other parts of the city - including beautiful Westville - to lecture the residents of our neighborhood about how we can and can't do to protect ourselves.

I don't know who Minister Morris believes he is speaking for in my neighborhood, because everyone I spoke to this evening was unhappy about the crime, and happy to see the patrol.

Seeking to avoid such divides -- especially black-Jewish tensions -- the head of the Greater New Haven Jewish Federation, Sydney Perry (pictured), attended Wednesday's rally. She joined in condemning the patrols and vowing to work with the ministers; a meeting is planned next week at Beulah Heights Church on orchard Street.

"This is our community," Perry said. "We're going to make this community all it can be."

Has Ms. Perry moved to my neighborhood? Does she have to walk the streets at night (and sometimes during the day) wondering if this will be the time she is, God forbid, a victim of crime? If not, how exactly is this her community?

And the Anti-Defamation League issued a statement opposing the armed patrols. In the statement, ADL chief David Waren expressed his support for Police Chief Francisco Ortiz, whom the Greers have called to be removed from his post. The ADL gave Ortiz an award last year.

"While citizen patrols have been effective in some contexts, it is important that they be undertaken in coordination and communication with he police and that any such efforts include proper training and the inclusion of diverse groups within the community, to ensure not only their effectiveness, but their fairness and, perhaps most importantly, the safety of all in the community," Waren stated.

I believe if Mr. Waren had spoken to more of the neighbors in this community he would have found a great deal of agreement with his well voiced concerns. And yet, lacking effective policing to protect us, residents are willing to address those concerns in a responsible manner and actively patrol our neighborhood. I believe it can be done, and I believe Mr. Waren and the other community leaders should support such efforts to empower residents to act as partners in fighting the plague of criminal violence that has victimized far too many good citizens - of all races, creeds, and colors.

Posted by: my reaction | June 13, 2007 9:54 PM

I'm against the patrols.
But, I have a few questions for supporters.

1. What if the black panthers of old (the 60's) decided to patrol your neighborhood(armed)?
a. wouldn't you protest?

2. What if the klu klux klan decided to patrol your neghborhood?

3. Would you feel safer just because they have guns too?

4. Is it any different.. just because they have a different name or a different face?

my comment--tragic stories always start out with the best intentions.

my comment---violence always leads to more violence... shows of force always lead to more shows of force(look to iraq for answers there).

----some questions don't have answers. but you have to ask them to get to the truth.

Posted by: Gary Doyens | June 13, 2007 10:20 PM

I'm not in favor of armed patrols. However, in this case, I side with Rabbi Greer. For those of you who want to sit around and talk..God bless you. Talk. Talk is cheap, talk is long, and in New Haven, talk gets you nowhere.

I have fought for reasonable property taxes in the City of New Haven since 2004 -- every year its the same. My alder Sergio Rodriquez gives me lip service and hands me a bill. This year's bill is a dandy -- larger and higher, filled with more programs and more cops and more patronage jobs than ever. He didn' listen...none of them do. Mr.DeStefano ignores you. His staff makes excuses. Dirty cops?? Let's spend $130K to study the problem for six months and let things cool down. Youth violence -- let's study it and then hide the report in Smut's office.

Talk? It's past time to talk. Rabbi Greer has been talking and nobody, including Chief Ortiz and the mayor have not been listening or acting or fixing or bringing results. God bless all the talkers. Enjoy your coffee and doughnuts. And God bless Rabbi Greer and the Edgewood Patrol -- at least there's action and the hoodlums and no goods who attack decent people will have cause to think twice.

Posted by: tony | June 14, 2007 7:40 AM

I moved to the neighborhood (actually, just past Whalley on Ellsworth) on April 1, and since, my home and property have been vandalized or stolen numerous times. Young gang members continue to trespass on the property. The police come when called, and have been quite responsive, but it appears they have little recourse to stop these people.
I have been threatened by people walking through my yard for attempting to fence it off (they keep cutting chains and locks and trampling the fences, too.) These people act as if they own the neighborhood and have a right to threaten me and my family and violate our privacy (they look in through our windows while walking by at night). They´ve stolen or damaged hundreds of dollars worth of property, including vehicles. We´ve been here for less than three months!
I support the patrols. I wish one of these article would tell me where to go to volunteer to participate.

Posted by: on whalley | June 14, 2007 8:36 AM

1. What if the black panthers of old (the 60's) decided to patrol your neighborhood(armed)?
a. wouldn't you protest?

Well, being that the Black Panthers are a militant 'Black Power' group than yes, I would be upset.
If however a group of people in my neighborhood who happened to be black wanted to participate in a similar patrol fashion I would not be upset.
I posted earlier about firearms and concealed carry and how you have no idea how many people around you are armed either legally or illegally and how just a few years ago there was a rifle in many school lockers yet no school shootings but for some reason this didnt make it to the board.

2. What if the klu klux klan decided to patrol your neghborhood?

For the same reason I would protest the Black Panthers walking around with guns I would protest the KKK.

3. Would you feel safer just because they have guns too?

Personally, I believe every lawful American citizen should be armed and carry should be open. I promise you would see a drop in crime.

4. Is it any different.. just because they have a different name or a different face?

They can be purple and call themselves flying spaghetti monsters for all I care. The problem is when you start shouting "black power" or "white power" while waving your guns around.

Anyone here Greer shouting "Jew power"?

Again, I hope this makes it to the board this time but I encourage all of you who for one reason or another believe that 'gun' is a dirty word to get out, put one in your hand and educate yourselves.

I'll take you to the range personally if you want.
This ignorance and irrational fear has to stop.

Posted by: jeffieboy | June 14, 2007 8:43 AM

Nine out of ten criminals prefer unarmed victims.

Posted by: Frank Iezzi | June 14, 2007 9:20 AM

Minister Morris, and all you well intentioned thoughtful social experts and theologians, the criminals don't give a damn how much dialoge you engage in to solve problems. I've been hearing this empty rhetoric for years, and trying to understand the needs and motivations of the criminals is a waste of time. Frankly, people have more to do with their own personal lives than spend most of it engaging in committees and other distractions which do not have any effect on the main problem. We elect people and fund departments with exhorbitantly high taxes to do that for us. The government's main purpose is to protect you, and that is simply not being done. They have failed you and are embarrased about it. If the police can't help you deter crime, then I say let the pistol packin' rabbis have a shot at it(pun intended).

Posted by: Dave Kos | June 14, 2007 11:03 AM

If the perpetrators of these crimes are indeed a small group why can't the police infiltrate the group and ID them. Then find an aggressive district attorney and prosecute them. Then find a tough judge to throw them in jail. Fat Chance!!

Posted by: DAFeder | June 14, 2007 11:23 AM

JEFFIEBOY,

The most common crime involving a legal handgun is its theft by someone looking for an illegal handgun. Second most common "crime" -- the suicide of its owner.
I'd be happy with fewer guns, more cops, and less militancy in my rabbis.

David

Posted by: Soldiers of Good Fortune | June 14, 2007 2:32 PM

As a community resident I feel that people arming themselves will only result in further destruction of this city.We are already living with division that has resulted in nothing but problems with the youth in the city.This type of behavior has given the impression that we can only feel free in our own neiborhoods,the curiosity will always remain as to what's in that hood that they want to keep me from?We have set examples for each other and our youth in order to gain trust and to no longer be strangers to each other.Take away the mystery and become familiar with each other as human beings should.Let's stop playing the role of God.We need universal prayer and acknowledge God.I always ask myself when in a situation,would God approve this?In order to make any kind of change we must come together we all want the same common outcome and thats to fell a sense of saftey in our city.Let's become the shining example for other cities to follow.Let's be honest with eachother and put pride aside.Does the city really care about the youth thats being killed in our streets?If so we should see a change in action with solutions.We are all responsable when it comes to taking care of our youth.Show them you care and they do matter in this world.That's missing and these types of action are the result of not showing we care.Peace and love to all people.

Posted by: Soldiers of Good Fortune | June 14, 2007 4:04 PM

Thank you for displaying my comments,please excuse the misspellings I was in such a hurry.Special tanks to melissa bailey for always telling the truth and covering all of these issues

Posted by: J | June 14, 2007 4:58 PM

Oh man, it's the peace and love brigade.

It's ironic. Think about how many people already carry guns in NH (usually illegally). Gang members, those involved in the drug trade, those who live in neighborhoods with the drug trade & gangs. I work in the Hill & Newhallville and there are guns are everywhere. Those baggy white tshirts, hmmmm.... Get a clue, nice people living in nice neighborhoods. Where's the huge push to get those people and guns off the street? Why is it that only citizens who announce their intentions and do it legally that produce a big outcry?

Posted by: Two2Three | June 14, 2007 5:25 PM

Who's talking about doing something to replace the incentives for crime with incentives for community responsibility?

Lack of constructive activity and bad role models carry lots of responsibility for criminal behavior. Last fall the Board of Alders held two hearings at the two big high schools for youth under age 20 to comment on the proposed curfew. Many speakers eloquently opposed the curfew but called for jobs and recreational facilities for youth.

Has the city progressed at all in providing decent jobs, recreation and education? Does the state tackle underlying social causes or just build more prisons?

Regrettably the most powerful political role models for our children use terrible violence daily. President Bush invades Iraq and murders thousands while stealing their oil and he and Senator Lieberman threaten to do the same to Iran. The bombs drop on distant villages and explode in our cities. It isn't just TV and video games that encourage neighborhood violence. From brutal raids on immigrant families to a refusal to prevent an impending climate disaster our government constantly proves the truth of Frederick Douglass' century-old statement about the U.S.: "There is not a nation on earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody."

Vigilantes won't turn it around. What will is the active participation of our neighbors in finding and insisting on real solutions at all levels. Let's demand that billions be removed from the military budget, stop the war on Iraq before it runs up a predicted $2 trillion and spend our resources to ensure that our youth have a present and a future. Put the money to work to train and educate our youth and pay them to do the jobs that need to be done.

Posted by: Willie Williams jr | June 15, 2007 7:43 AM

The Problem Is The New Haven Police, Not Citizen Patrols. Cut The New Haven Police By 25% and We'll Get 25% More Efficiency. Every Ward In New Haven Has The Right To Have It's Own Citizens Patrol. There Is A Lot of Racial Indications Going On Here. "Black Leaders" and The NAACP" and "Black Christians" and "Reverens" They DO-NOT! Represent Me and They Certainly Are NOT! My Leaders. Anti-War Activist and Those Whom Scurge "Black Vietnam Veterans" Are Not! In Any Possition To Tell Citizens...DO-NOT! Protect Yourself...Let The Police Protect You. These Black Faces You See Claiming To Speak For Blacks Get Paid $$$ Money They Did NOT! Work For or Save For,They Get FREE! Money From Poor People, Tax FREE! Money, That Ain't Right. No Ones Giving Willie Williams Jr No FREE! Money, Tax FREE! Money $$$. Lets Have A Rally On "Citizens Who DO-NOT! Pay Their Federal Income Tax, State Income Tax, Automobile Taxes, Property Taxes, Deadbeat Dads and Student Loans UnPaid. You Pay Your Way, You Can Have Your Say!.

Posted by: The Heckler | June 15, 2007 1:08 PM

Beware of Curtis Sliwa all he and is group is after is publicity.

When the TV crews have faded away, he and his merry(not so) gang will be off to their next target.

Dialougue, Respect for others and Communication is what is needed in a community. Although Curtis is good at shooting his mouth off, I doubt he has the other atributes in Life!

Posted by: Edward_H | June 15, 2007 3:40 PM

Maybe Sliwa can help the Rabbi reproduce some of the publicity stunts he perpetrated on the public such as:

1) Asking your sister to pose as a mugging victim so one of your members can pose as a hero
2) Faking your own kidnapping by police officers

Those are just 2 of the things I remember him admitting to when I lived in New York City.Where were all of these attention seekers when crime in my area jumped 20%?

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2007/01/web_residents_d.php

MYREACTION
I am a supporter of the Edgewood Park Defense Patrol and to answer your questions 1 and 2. No, I would not support the KKK or Black Panthers patrolling my neighborhood. Is the Defense Patrol dedicated to the destruction or oppression of certain ethnic or racial groups or promote the violent overthrow of the government as the ones you describe are? Do you have some information concerning the motivations of this group the rest of New Haven is not privy to? What logical thought process caused you to draw parallels between these groups?

my comment--tragic stories always start out with the best intentions

This is false. Tragic stories can begin with any type of intentions, good bad or indifferent.

my comment---violence always leads to more violence... shows of force always lead to more shows of force(look to iraq for answers there).

Also untrue. Shows of force and violence can be remarkably effective when used properly. Or are you one of those who still believe the U.S. should have stayed out of World War Two? What about the Civil War? I guess you think the country would have been better off had the U.S. been split in two and the southern slaves left to their fate. This "violence never solves anything" version of the world you people subscribe too certainly does not hold any water when looked at through a historical perspective.

Posted by: Scribe2k | June 16, 2007 8:33 AM

To every member of the NAACP I ask where are you in this matter?
To every clergy person I ask where are you in this matter?
To every mother / father responsible relative of these gang members I ask where are you in this matter?
It's really easy to complain about folks coming in from NY and complaining about 'not in our neighborhood,' but where are YOU in this matter?

It's easy to have an opinion about ANYTHING, but it is nearly impossible to find a willingness on the part of those mentioned above willing to clean their own house.

These are the fruits of the NAACP is what I say. These are not Sliwa's children, or Jewish children or even DeStephano's children. These are NAACP children and I don't see the NAACP cleaning up it's own house.
Then again, maybe the NAACP doesn't live there anymore and forgot to submit a forwarding address.

Posted by: Alex | June 16, 2007 11:45 AM

"Foster predicted that if "one self-proclaimed vigilante" shoots someone in the neighborhood, "this city will explode like a powder keg.""

Heaven Forbid!
But, diversity is our STRENGTH...not our division!
(Right???)

Posted by: Edward_H | June 16, 2007 11:56 AM

The Christian group has been holding sidewalk vigils in city neighborhoods urging young black men to throw away guns and avoid crime.

Is it only "young black men" who need " to throw away guns and avoid crime"? Isn't this profiling? Or does Minister Morris's group not care about young men and women of other ethnic backgrounds or religious affiliation? The Minister seems more worried about the Edgewood park patrol than he is about the fact he has to stand on a corner and tell young black men to avoid crime. Avoiding crime is common sense to most people, including young black men like myself.

Is either Rabbi David Avigdor or Minister Donald Morris going to start patrolling streets in my neighborhood, armed or otherwise ? What plans do they have for combating crime? Or are they just looking to bash the efforts of a group of people who are fed up with the rampant criminal behavior in the neighborhood in order to get some camera time? If the good Minister Morris thinks that standing on a high crime corner in the middle of the day in a stocking cap is going to change anything more power to him. Perhaps some of our friends in Westville who are so against the armed patrol will ask their district manager to allocate some of the police resources dedicated to Westville to the Edgewood, Beaver Hills area?

Pastor Todd Foster :

Speaking of "racial insensitivity in the Edgewood neighborhood" in the past, Foster predicted that if "one self-proclaimed vigilante" shoots someone in the neighborhood, "this city will explode like a powder keg."

One would think such blatant fear mongering would be beneath the dignity of a Pastor. Does he really have such low expectations of the people of the New Haven? Or is he speaking about the people in his congregation who he knows for sure will explode into a righteous fury? Does he really think the rest of us normally law abiding citizens are simply waiting for an excuse to tear each others throats out and set fires to cars in the middle of the street? If the people in this city explode like a powder keg over anything it should be the next time innocent teenager or business owner who is minding their own business is gunned down and murdered in the street.