New Haven Independent

Posted by: B | June 6, 2007 11:04 AM

Why be ashamed of the federal government? You know where they stand and what is illegal. Why wouldn't they take action to make a point?
New Haven's stab at immigration reform is much more powerful than an FBI bust.
Immigration busts make the case for reform that much stronger. let the FBI make Martyr's out of the one's they bust.

Posted by: TrueBlueCT | June 6, 2007 11:49 AM

Wow. If this wasn't the Bush administration, I'd say no way. Must be a coincidence.

But this is the Bush era, so why not mess with several New Haven families to score a political point?

Posted by: are state and feds funds at risk | June 6, 2007 11:49 AM

I have not heard or seen comment on whether taking the action of the ID cards for illegal immigrants has the city put itself in a position where sate and federal funds can be sacrificed. This article seems to imply that he city is now ashamed of the federal government, what happens if the ID action causes the feds and state to look into denying funds.

Posted by: Bruce | June 6, 2007 11:51 AM

Probably should have seen this coming. What do they expect us to do? Illegal immigrants are a fact of life in cities like New Haven. Stopping the flow is not really something the local authorities have the capacity to do -- it's a federal issue. All the city is trying to do is deal with some of the peripheral local issues in a sensible fashion. Public safety is an issue that affects all of us. If ID cards can help people get bank accounts (and therefore avoid robberies) then what is the big deal?

Posted by: 2Unique | June 6, 2007 11:56 AM

Hmmm...interesting. I saw some Feds with NH cops gathering on Woodward Avenue in the Annex around 7 this morning. It looks like NHP WAS involved. Hmmmm

Posted by: Molly Wheeler | June 6, 2007 12:00 PM

According the eyewitnesses, more than routine operations of removal order enforcement are currently happening. If you know someone that needs to know their rights in this matter, please tell them: Whether or not you're a citizen, you have rights under the US Constitution. The Fifth Amendment, the right to remain silent, is everyone's. As is the Fourth Amendment, the restriction of government to enter and search your home. No one can enter your home without a search warrant. Ask to see it. You can say "I am going to remain silent," "I want to speak to my lawyer," and "I do not consent to a search."

Posted by: Molly Wheeler | June 6, 2007 12:13 PM

Many people have said and especially after today will say that the ID cards invite this. That now the federal government can get information on people in the city that they otherwise wouldn't have. First of all, this information is already available to the government in many cases since many "undocumented" workers pay taxes every year and provide information, more information than will ever be on a New Haven municipal ID card. Also, New Haven has the right to say no to such requests and has been offered pro bono defense should any litigation result from a refusal. And finally, this program is more than an identification card with minimal data, it is symbolic of our dedication to the human rights of all people in New Haven.

Posted by: Biagio | June 6, 2007 1:14 PM

I also question the timing of the raids. I fear for the detainees, especially since this article indicates they're being taken out of state. Reminds me of the propaganda our current federal administration gave the population as a reason for invading Iraq... soldiers breaking into homes and the residents disappearing.

I don't like the concept of the ID cards. Why create more bureaucracy? I'm sure the cost of these cards and their ongoing administration could fund at least two full time police officers a year.

Posted by: Ned | June 6, 2007 2:40 PM

Molly Wheeler is too funny; I'm sure the INS/police are going to stop right in their tracks, like waving a magic wand, when you say "I have rights under the Constitution". Sorry, can't hear you with that gag in your mouth and the hood over your head... The government can and will do anything it wants to you, including, stealing your property, detaining you indefinitely, executing you (even if you're innocent), or sending you to another country to be tortured.
Improving the status of women, promoting birth control and fostering economic equality and justice in the countries exporting their populations to the U.S. would solve the U.S's immigration "problem", but the people who run this country aren't anymore interested in that agenda than the people running the countries that these immigrants are fleeing...

Posted by: Mariaca | June 6, 2007 4:58 PM

"Immigration reform"? Who is anyone kidding? It's not a reform, but an attempt to give legal status to millions of lawbreakers, identity thieves, job stealers, and freeloaders.
Yes, many, though not all, are hard-working people but after 20 million crash our gates, that's enough. Go home now, take your drugs and your crime, and take your phony "citizen" children with you.You can also take priests who meddle in politics and the liberal ACLU professional agitators.
These raids are too little and maybe too late. This is not "immigration" we're dealing with , but an invasion. If we can deport a few dozen from New Haven it's just a drop in the bucket, but every little bit helps. If the illegals are whining, maybe they should check the laws of their home countries, where such an invasion wouldn't have been allowed in the first place.
Go ICE!

Posted by: Uncle Nunzio | June 6, 2007 5:10 PM

Seriously... how could they not predict this would happen?

New Haven: "Let's make a database of illegal immigrants".

US Gov: "Thank you!"

Posted by: Rizzo | June 6, 2007 5:24 PM

Federal agents did their job and nabbed individuals who were ordered to leave the country by a federal court but who chose not only to break our laws but defy our federal courts, and you are complaining? If Mayor DeStefano did not openly defy our nation's laws by declaring a safe harbor for illegal aliens - yes, illegal aliens, not the sanitized term "undocumented individuals(only a liberal can come up with such a euphemism), we would not have this problem nor the number of illegals in this city, consuming public resources and soaking the taxpayers. DeStefano should be investigated for his open collaboration with illegals to evade the law.

Posted by: Bad Hand | June 6, 2007 6:33 PM

DeStefano is a Traitor to the people of New Haven

Posted by: james | June 6, 2007 6:59 PM

What do you people in new haven not understand... Illegal means illegal. it doesnt matter what color skin someone is, or waht country someone is from, illegal is illegal. Deal with the raids. The federal government has as much right to arrest lawbreakers as anyone else. Last time i looked we were still in america. we still had laws to follow and they must be obeyed. when they arent obeyed then there are consequences.

And Molly the only people who have protection under the US constitution are those who are AMERICAN citizens are those here LEGALLY. and as far as your tax remark is concerned, you are far off base. every study published says they put in on average a little bit over 10K a year and take out more than 30K. this does not include taking advantage of free health care and education, welfare and other fed. and state monies. The US Taxpayer looses the most in this.

Posted by: to molly | June 6, 2007 7:30 PM

Molly, brush up on the law.

First, immigrants with deportation orders, have no constitutional protections. They should but don't.

they do not even have a right to a court appointed attorney if they can not afford one.

these are not the regular us courts. These are not the criminal courts. these are the immigration courts.

Posted by: guest | June 6, 2007 7:40 PM

Can't they deport destefano instead?

Posted by: Bill Saunders | June 6, 2007 9:07 PM

If providing illegal immigrants identification for banking services is the prime factor driving this plan, then why don't the banks issue the ID's directly to illegals, for use exclusively in thier institutions.

Don't know why the local government is stepping in, (beyond its authority). Banks are not a government program, they are a private business.

Posted by: Josh | June 6, 2007 9:55 PM

Take action and call DeLauro, Lieberman, Dodd, and Destenfano. Tell them to speak out against these raids.
Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro
New Haven office: 203-562-3718

Senator Christopher Dodd
Hartford office: 860-258-6940 / 800-334-5341 (CT only)

Senator Joseph Lieberman
Hartford office: 860-549-8463 / 800-225-5605 (CT only)

Mayor John DeStafano
Sean Matteson, Chief of Staff 203-946-7802

Posted by: K | June 6, 2007 11:26 PM

In response to MARIACA's comment:

I'm not going to argue law, but I do take issue with deliberate and ignorant remarks like "take your drugs and crime with you".

Last time I looked, the vast majority of crime in New Haven does not take place in the heavily immigrant neighborhoods. The fact that we don't often hear about criminal deportations means that the people mugging residents, shooting each other, etc. are not illegal immigrants but good ol' American citizens.

I grew up in an area which had some heavily Hispanic immigrant neighborhoods. (And yes, a ton of them were probably there illegally.) But there was relatively low crime in those neighborhoods compared to other areas with the same economic conditions. I hate to generalize, but at least in my experience, Hispanic immigrants (who seem to be the point of this discussion) were always very hard-working.

So argue on the grounds of law if you must. Condemn them for taking advantage of our welfare system if you must. But to blame them for "drugs and crime" is a blatant lie.

Posted by: andrew | June 7, 2007 1:01 AM

Good. Kick them out. Take a look at their classification - illegal alien. By definition, they don't belong here. Removing them is the right thing to do. I'm sorry this community is filled with ... who can't see past the promise of cheap labor and actually recognize what the situation really entails.

And to the person who doesn't think that individual communities can do anything to stop it - it has to start somewhere and everybody has to do their share. If a community can make it harder for illegals and relieve the some of the burden from the feds - it will be easier and faster to right this sinking ship.

Fact is we can't absorb the billions of people who would like to come here. Sucks for some, but i want my kids to have the same opportunities i had and i don't see that being the case when people like Kennedy are giving amnesty out every 20 years to an exponentially larger group of people.

Posted by: win | June 7, 2007 1:02 AM

Its really amusing that there are people trying to project the federal agents as breaking a law that doesn't exist while enforcing the law that does.

Everyone notice - these are liberals promoting illegal immigration.

Illegal immigrants are not here because of business, they are here because people like this promote and support them.

This support of illegal immigration is why I no longer support liberal causes.

Posted by: BlessUSA | June 7, 2007 1:12 AM

It's about time!! We need more cities doing this across the country! Illegal is illegal, and they knew their chances when coming here. They still made the choice to enter illegally, now, they can leave. Break the law~pay the price. Good job to all that were involved with the raids!! Keep it up!!

Posted by: Mariaca | June 7, 2007 2:30 AM

To K,
I never said illegals are responsible for all crimes and drugs. But since illegals have no right to be here at all, even one criminal infraction is more than enough. Somewhere in the USA rates of crime and other malfeasance committed by illegals may even be proportionally low (though I doubt it) but these crimes are IN ADDITION to crimes by our own citizens.
If you visualize "crime" as a punch from a stranger would you accept an extra blow or several if several more (illegals) joined in? Or would you say, that's ok, because I already got punched?
We have enough of our own criminals that we don't need more. We also don't need to pay for their incarceration. But we do.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | June 7, 2007 8:33 AM

K
I Am Sick And Tired Of People Saying That The Immgrants Are Hard Working, Yea They Are Hard Working At UnderCuting Labor And FairWages. I Know People On My Block Americans Who Work Two And Three Jobs, Some Seven Days A Week Just To Make Ends Meeting.So People Like You That Make These Statments Need To Look Around And See That This Is About Not Immgrantion, But A Tool Of The
Corptist To Get rid Of Unions And To Chop Away At
Fair Wages!!!

Posted by: westvillecharlie | June 7, 2007 9:59 AM

the i.d. cards sound like a good idea for say, library cards, parxsmart meters, getting into lighthouse point for free, reduced rates at muninicipal golf course and maybe even a debit card for new haven businesses. i'll pay $10 for that. but don't use it as a tool to aid and assist illegal immigrants, not with private money, not with public money. our healthcare, educational and welfare system just cannot afford to take care of them (yes i said THEM) and US adequately at the same time.
the united states does not MAKE anything anymore. there is no industry, we make hamburgers and deliver pizza. hell, we don't even do telemarketing anymore. until stricter tarrifs and import limits are imposed to hopefully turn things around, we will be doing the same jobs as illegal immigrants, and the least we can do is make sure those paltry wages are not further lowered by those entering illegally.
i grew up a progressive democrat, and i do not like the fact i now have to make this stand, but it's the correct stance. i still hate bush, i find no joy is seeing hard working humans getting deported. perhaps we need to spend more time helping our pan american neighbors improving thier counries.

Posted by: Yul A. Watley | June 7, 2007 10:42 AM

THE LAW IS THE LAW. These are people that are interring this city illegally, we don't know who they are or there background, and when the proper authorities do there job, this Mayor calls it terrorizing. It just makes you think, what other Laws has John broke as the Mayor of our city. It is really time for a new leadership to take place in New Haven. Lets make it happen.

Posted by: Bruce | June 7, 2007 12:13 PM

James, if we tried to all get one dollar of services for every dollar of tax we paid, our system would fall on its face. Many illegal immigrants work in low-paying jobs and, as such, do not contribute as much in taxes as someone in a high-paying job. This will occur regardless of what country the wage earner was born in. In other words, it's not likely that an American in that same low-wage job would be any less of a strain on our economy.

Posted by: dwightstreetrenter | June 7, 2007 2:59 PM

Illegal immigrants are not deserving of a "break." My ancestors worked hard to come to America through Ellis Island (it was expensive to make the journey by boat) and make a new life here.

They were proud of their command in a new language: English. They were proud of their hard work, and of paying taxes. They became leaders in government here in Connecticut and Massachussetts.

Illegals have no rights. They go to the emergency room for routine calls, and who pays for it? They need help from police, but they do not pay taxes. They use our roads, which need maintenance; but I'm stuck paying the cost of repair.

Take pride in your heritage. Teach your children the pride of lawful citizenship and the responsibilities that come with it: paying taxes, voting, participating in government, public education, learning the official language, participating in commerce, making a difference in the lives of people you do not know, EARNING MINIMUM WAGE BECAUSE YOU'RE A CITIZEN, paying Social Security, etc.

Only when illegals become legal citizens will this debacle be null and void. The ID program should include a stipulation that the ID holder seek citizenship within 90 days of receipt, or face the consequences.

Students and others living in the city who wish to have a library card can have a letter mailed to them at an address in New Haven. That's all the "proof" they require.

Posted by: Come on | June 7, 2007 3:05 PM

Yul Watley,
"The law is the law?" This is an odd argument for you to make. You didn't seem to have any problem when your friends at the Taurus Club were apparently threatening witnesses.
How about children having their parents taken away? Not worth the kind of defense you mustered for a lawless saloon? These kids go to the same schools as all of our children and live right next door without causing any disruption.

Suddenly you care that "we don't know who they are or there background [sic]." What are you worried about? That al qaeda has sneaked into New Haven and is going to blow up the Taurus?

Yet we do know the background of the Taurus because we can read it in the police reports. We also know that recent immigrants to New Haven have basically not caused any criminal problems for the rest of us.

Posted by: Come on | June 7, 2007 3:23 PM

DwightStreetRenter,

I think you misunderstand what the whole issue is. Undocumented immigrants cannot become citizens, not because of anything they have done or not done, but because the US has basically closed the spigot to allow people to immigrate legally. They could not decide tomorrow to apply for citizenship. If they did so they would be immediately deported.

If given the choice, most undocumented immigrants would absolutely start on a path to citizenship. But there is no path right now. That's why we have this huge number of undocumented immigrants. It is what they are debating now in the Senate.

When your ancestors came over, they simply needed to show up. These folks met that standard. Every couple of decades since the early 1900s the US government (through Congress) has closed its borders because it did not like the people coming in. Then a big backlog occurs and a solution needs to be found.

Really no difference this time. Same thing happened when your ancestors came, they just came after limits on whatever your ethnic group is were lifted. (Same thing happened to basically every new ethnic group for awhile until they gained political clout.)

Posted by: Come on | June 7, 2007 5:47 PM

Win,

"This support of illegal immigration is why I no longer support liberal causes." Translation: I have become blind to basic logic because this one issue enrages me so much. Stop lying to us.

You want us to believe:
1. You stopped supporting alternative energy because of immigrants.
2. You stopped supporting an end to the war in Iraq because of immigrants.
3. You became anti-union because of immigrants.
4. You stopped supporting progressive taxation because of immigrants.

NONSENSE!! These are fundamental liberal causes. You either never supported these things or changed your stripes long before immigrants became your newest reason to hate liberals.

I am sick and tired of anti-immigrant people just making stuff up in this debate and getting away with it. Stop pretending that progressives are hurting themselves with you or other voters because they are willing to stand up for the downtrodden. Enough.

Go read Dr. King's Message from a Birmingham Jail.

Posted by: blackdog | June 7, 2007 9:34 PM

FYI the 5th Am. applies to every "person." Nowhere does the word "citizen" appear. Check it out: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am5

14th Am. due process (and equal protection) also apply to every "person." The only thing restricted to citizens is "privileges and immunities," which basically protect free travel and mailing your representatives. Again, see for yourself: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am14

Posted by: Edward_H | June 7, 2007 11:17 PM

To every person who is crying about children having their mothers "taken away"

Since when is having a child a "Get Out of Jail Free" card? These children were put in this situation by their parents, not the Federal Officers executing a proper court order. These people all knew they are residing here illegally and living on borrowed time.

COME ON

"This support of illegal immigration is why I no longer support liberal causes." Translation: I have become blind to basic logic because this one issue enrages me so much. Stop lying to us.

Let's say your assumption is true and Win has stopped supporting all liberal causes due to the issues of illegal immigration. Does he not have a right to do so? If he wishes to base is support or lack there of on this one point that is his right. Just as I have the right to decide not to support John Edwards because he pays $400 dollars for a haircut or I could decide to support him because of it. Or I could support George Bush's energy policies because his ranch is more environmentally friendly then Al Gore's mansion. It is my right to do so and Win's right to support or withold his suppport from whomever he wishes for whatever reason he so chooses.

Posted by: J. | June 7, 2007 11:23 PM

That's right, I'd forgotten that Yul Watley testified in the Taurus Club's defense (at the liquor license hearing) recently. He drove up to Hartford as a character witness for Larry Livingston. (You've got interesting friends.) And you think immigrants are a major problem in this city?? Better do a little self examination.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | June 8, 2007 9:58 AM

Edward- H
I Agree That If A Person Breaks The Law That They
Should Have There Day In Court And If Found Guilty
And Sentence To Jail Than They Should Stay In Jail
Until There Sentence Is Up. So Can You Please Tell Me Since You Seem To Be For Law And Order How Com The Follwing People Got Get Out Of Jail Cards Free. Paris Hilton, Our Own Senate Louis Deluca Who Used The Mob To Threaten His Granddaugter Husband The Ex Mayor Of Waterbury
Because His Ex Wife Got Shot He Will Not Go To Jail Is This Not A Double Standed Or Is This A
Two Party Justice System One For Rich And One For Poor. Now As I Have Stated My Postion On The Illegal Immgrants Is Base On Labor And If They
Are Found To Be Illegal Then The Law Should Apply
But It Should Also Apply To All Who Break The Law.
So Knowing That You Are For Law And Order Should
Those People Get A Get Out Of Jail Card For Free To Or Should No Body Get A Card!!

Posted by: westvillecharlie | June 8, 2007 12:30 PM

The rally leaders are right, the are absolutely right. People are not illegal. However these people are in this country illegally. That is breaking the law. Every day they wake up in New Haven without making stepst towards becoming citizens, and i mean really trying - standing in line for 15hours if they have to - they are are breaking the law. So let's not call them illegals, lets call them what they are, criminals.

Posted by: Edward_H | June 8, 2007 4:52 PM

Threefifths
This discussion pertains to Illegal and legal immigration. I think we should keep it on track and not get sidelined by Paris Hilton of all people

Posted by: Edward_H | June 9, 2007 11:53 AM

Come on

We also know that recent immigrants to New Haven have basically not caused any criminal problems for the rest of us.

How do you know this when the NHPD is not allowed to ask the immigration status of individuals?

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | June 9, 2007 9:19 PM

Edward-H
My Point Is Why Should Anybody Get A Get Out Of Jail Free Card. You Stated That When Is Having A
Child A Get Out Of Jail Free Card My Point Pertains To The Double Standed When It Comes To The Rich And Poor. So Mr. Law And Order Edward-H
When Is Having A Spouse Shot A Get Out Of Jail Free Card Like The Ex Mayor Of Waterbury Got No Jail Time, Senate Louis Deluca Got No Time. So This Does Pertain To This Discussion Because You Made The State About The Get Out Of Jail Free Card and It Seems That You Have Sideline This Discssion And It Is Very Easy To Answer My Question And That Is Should The People With Influence Get A Get Out Of Jail Free Card Or Should No Body Get One!!!