New Haven Independent

Posted by: Tyrone Speaks | June 6, 2007 4:21 PM

Amen! They should have arrested Mayor DeStefano as well for such a rediculous move to begin with!

Posted by: cedarhillresident | June 6, 2007 6:48 PM

How can the people of New Haven help protest this move by the fed's???

Posted by: guest | June 6, 2007 8:29 PM

Paul, If you are not going to do more responsible reporting on this ID card I am washing my hands of the Indendent. The reporting is lazy and superficial. I don't care how much ink you can say you have given it.

My comments under the name guest are numerous on the stories on the ID card and they are serious comments that should have spurned deeper coverage and harder questions about the spin, about the players, about the risks. The ends don't justify the means and full informed consent is the only moral way to do any social activism.

This is shameless -- the coverage, the mayor, the activists and Yale's part.

The information propogated by the proponents has NOT been entirely accurate. Certain hard truths have been buried in reports while the same authors spin out twisted versions in PR to the public, rendering them guinea pigs to a cause. That is not informed consent and it is morally relavistic behavior, even heinous, coming from those who purport to know about moral imperatives.

Posted by: guest | June 6, 2007 9:43 PM

Mr. Solomon, you are hardly ever in the courts in new haven, and you certainly do not spend a lot of time with new haven police. You have no idea if the NHPD has even kept its word as far as assisting the feds and you are conveniently oblivious to the lack of justice meted out in new haven's courts.

Your law school is barely accountable to the clients it already serves because it inebriates itself in collegial conspiracy with fellow bar and bench. (when it isn't preening itself in the flattering mirror of its own status)

How does it expect to deliver justice to the detainees picked up today? Whad'are you gonna do, call Michael Ratner? I think you better, because the feds are not going to deliver justice to these individuals just because unweened Yalies and their coddling professors take the feathers out of their caps and wave them in Alberto Gonzales's dumb face.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | June 6, 2007 10:21 PM

guest

Are you a New Haven resident??? Even the residents that are against the ID card should be mad at the way this whole thing went down!! They had the children on the floor. THey entered without warrents!!! They (the feds) violated the us consitution!!! Which yes even protects the people that they took from there families!! A MOTHER FROM HER SON!!!! Even you must see the wrong in that!!!!!!!!!!! We are months away from this going federal!! These people would soon have the chance to stay in a few short months!! only to be caught up in some kind of goverment game!! PLEASE!!

Paul covers all stories fairly. And the comment area allows for yes even opions like yours, to fill in any gaps some may feel where not covered. He never deletes comments so that all views are covered! That is alot more than any other news source does!!

Posted by: Yul A. Watley | June 6, 2007 10:38 PM

THE LAW IS THE LAW. These are people that are interring this city illegally, we don't know who they are or there background, and when the proper authorities do there job, this Mayor calls it terrorizing. It just makes you think, what other Laws has John broke as the Mayor of our city. It is really time for a new leadership to take place in New Haven. Lets make it happen.

Yul A. Watley

Posted by: Ralph Rechtenberg | June 7, 2007 7:17 AM

Excellent. The Mayor asked for increased federal scrutiny when he created his own personal sanctuary for illegal immigration - and now he's gotten it.

Let this raid be just the start of a federal campaign to root out the ID card plan. More raids? A federal suit to enjoin the plan? Withdrawal of federal funds? One wonders what methods might be used.

He' dug in his heels and put up his fists. But this is one fight he's not going win.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | June 7, 2007 7:48 AM

Where Was King John When Billy White And Some Of His NHPD Used THe Same Tacts On The African American Comunity, We Have Been Talking About Police Brutality For Years And King John Has Never
Held A Press Conference And Even Refused To Attend
The Naacp Hearings. Double Standard? People Wake Up Smell The Mackrel This Is About Politricks!!!

Posted by: KAM B | June 7, 2007 8:43 AM

Well said Mr. Watley. The Mayor should be arrested for saying the FBI terrorized its citizens. The FBI is doing their job and these people are not citizens. Last time I checked, being an Illegal Immigrant was a felony. Now the mayor wants to welcome and harbor known felons. Give me a break. Mr. Mayor, you would sell your soul to get votes. The people who were going to carry out the bombings of the airport gas lines were illegals. Dont you think other illegals, even non Mexicans would see NH as a safe harbor to find refuge and get fake city ID? GOD BLESS THE FBI. And keep up the good work. PS - Can a mayor be impeached?

Posted by: Edward_H | June 7, 2007 8:50 AM

Guest
No one over at the New Haven Independent can even figure out the difference between Legal and Illegal immigration. They constantly broadstroke any valid questions about illegal immigration as anti-immigrant fevor or hate. Do you really expect anyone over there to delve into the complex issues you have raised?

Cedarhillresident
If the Feds had proper deportation warrants they had every right to enter these homes and arrest the individuals they were seeking. You are probably thinking of search warrants which allow the police to seach for contraband. If Law Enforcement ( Federal,State or Local) makes the children of a suspect lie on the floor that is done for everyones safety. This is not am unusual action by any means. Do you think they should allow the crying children to cling to the feet of their parents while the armed agents serve their warrants? Or perhaps they should take the children out for ice cream? These children were put in this situation by their parents, not the Federal Officers executing a proper court order.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | June 7, 2007 1:12 PM

Can Someone Please Tell Me If This Is Not A Double Standard. How Come African American Youth Are Told That They Should Stop The Code Of No Snitchin And They Should Report All Illegally Acts
To The Proper Authority. Yet How Come The Mayor King John, The Alderman, Community Leaders And Minister Know Who The Illegally Are But They Refuse To Report Them. Is That Not A Double Standard. Should Not Everyone Drop The Code Of
No Snitchin. P.S. I Forgot Was Not King John Father A New Haven Police Officer And During The
Campaign For Governor He Talk About How His Father
Believe In Law And Order, I Wonder What Happen?

Posted by: 2Unique | June 7, 2007 1:16 PM

Hey, y'all...read this:

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens

It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work. Employers may give preference in recruitment and hiring to a U.S. citizen over an alien with work authorization only where the U.S. citizen is equally or better qualified. It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with three days' advance notice, the forms must be made available for inspection. Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home. Day laborers or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law. An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verfication of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor. The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements. If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.

An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts. Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer's work force. Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual's accent or foreign appearance.

Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.

IT IS ILLEGAL FOR NONPROFIT OR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, REGARDLESS OF CLAIMS THAT THEIR CONVICTIONS REQUIRE THEM TO ASSIST ALIENS. Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.

Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens

It is a violation of law for any person to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection in any place, including any building or means of transportation, any alien who is in the United States in violation of law. HARBORING MEANS ANY CONDUCT THAT TENDS TO SUBSTANTIALLY FACILITATE AN ALIEN TO REMAIN IN THE U.S. ILLEGALLY. The sheltering need not be clandestine, and harboring covers aliens arrested outdoors, as well as in a building. This provision includes harboring an alien who entered the U.S. legally but has since lost his legal status.

An employer can be convicted of the felony of harboring illegal aliens who are his employees if he takes actions in reckless disregard of their illegal status, such as ordering them to obtain false documents, altering records, obstructing INS inspections, or taking other actions that facilitate the alien's illegal employment. Any person who within any 12-month period hires ten or more individuals with actual knowledge that they are illegal aliens or unauthorized workers is guilty of felony harboring. It is also a felony to encourage or induce an alien to come to or reside in the U.S. knowing or recklessly disregarding the fact that the alien's entry or residence is in violation of the law. This crime applies to any person, rather than just employers of illegal aliens. Courts have ruled that "encouraging" includes counseling illegal aliens to continue working in the U.S. or assisting them to complete applications with false statements or obvious errors. The fact that the alien is a refugee fleeing persecution is not a defense to this felony, since U.S. law and the UN Protocol on Refugees both require that a refugee must report to immigration authorities without delay upon entry to the U.S.

The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years' imprisonment. Where the crime causes serious bodily injury or places the life of any person in jeopardy, the penalty is a fine and up to twenty years' imprisonment. If the criminal smuggling or harboring results in the death of any person, the penalty can include life imprisonment. Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties. Courts can impose consecutive prison sentences for each alien smuggled or harbored. A court may order a convicted smuggler to pay restitution if the alien smuggled qualifies as a victim under the Victim and Witness Protection Act. Conspiracy to commit crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years' imprisonment.

Enforcement

A person or entity having knowledge of a violation or potential violation of employer sanctions provisions may submit a signed written complaint to the INS office with jurisdiction over the business or residence of the potential violator, whether an employer, employee, or agent. The complaint must include the names and addresses of both the complainant and the violator, and detailed factual allegations, including date, time, and place of the potential violation, and the specific conduct alleged to be a violation of employer sanctions. By regulation, the INS will only investigate third-party complaints that have a reasonable probability of validity. Designated INS officers and employees, and all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws, may make an arrest for violation of smuggling or harboring illegal aliens.

State and local law enforcement officials have the general power to investigate and arrest violators of federal immigration statutes without prior INS knowledge or approval, as long as they are authorized to do so by state law. There is no extant federal limitation on this authority. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to encourage states and local agencies to participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws. Immigration officers and local law enforcement officers may detain an individual for a brief warrantless interrogation where circumstances create a reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship; and presence in an area known to contain a concentration of illegal aliens. Hispanic appearance alone is not sufficient. Immigration officers and police must have a valid warrant or valid employer's consent to enter workplaces or residences. Any vehicle used to transport or harbor illegal aliens, or used as a substantial part of an activity that encourages illegal aliens to come to or reside in the U.S. may be seized by an immigration officer and is subject to forfeiture. The forfeiture power covers any conveyances used within the U.S.

RICO -- Citizen Recourse

Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, AND CAN INCLUDE NONPROFIT ASSOCIATIONS.

Tax Crimes

Employers who aid or abet the preparation of false tax returns by failing to pay income or Social Security taxes for illegal alien employees, or who knowingly make payments using false names or Social Security numbers, are subject to IRS criminal and civil sanctions. U.S. nationals who have suffered intentional discrimination because of citizenship or national origin by an employer with more than three employees may file a complaint within 180 days of the discriminatory act with the Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices, U.S. Department of Justice. In additon to the federal statutes summarized, state laws and local ordinances controlling fair labor practices, workers compensation, zoning, safe housing and rental property, nuisance, licensing, street vending, and solicitations by contractors may also apply to activities that involve illegal aliens.

Posted by: Pawns | June 7, 2007 1:29 PM

In my opinion we should all see this from the mayor's perspective. He essentially told the Hispanic Caucas he didn't need them during the Democratic convention. He lost. He then spent all this money to make a primary. He won, but as we know didn't even come close in the election. Now the city is in deep fiscal trouble, which is only going to get worse next year (expect about another $20,000,000 budget increase next year).

So now, he has appointed more cronies and is playing this to get the latino vote. It's pure and simple the mayor is playing games with everyone. Please people just vote him out. We'll get a better BOA, and no one person is going to fix the problems this administartion has created in just two years, so the next election might be for a leader. This one needs to be to get a dictator out. He has been here too long, of course he did take 3 years off and left the city in whose hands? Certainly nobody is left in any of the positions that were described as "acting mayor". They are all gone. So I ask if they were deemed capable of running the city while John was gone, why did they all get replaced, resign or moved to HANH? That is a question the mayor should be asked isn't it. I hope the other candidates set up web sites so people that saw the inner workings can offer them some advice, and I hope we get a debate soon. Why does NHI push for that. Threefifths I sometimes don't agree with your comments, but you are absolutly right about the mayor ignoring police butality especially in Newhallville and the Hill. I persoally saw the results of an attack on one of the children of a city worker by Billy White and his band of thugs. They cufffed him and while cuffed used their boots to kick him in the head and face. Half his face was scraped off. Nothing happened to the cops, and people that witnessed it were afraid to say anything, because they feared the cops coming after them. She wanted to speak to the mayor and he never had the time. To busy trying to get to Hartford.

Posted by: Ralph Rechtenberg | June 7, 2007 5:17 PM

Thrilled to see Edward_H and others emphasize the difference between legal and illegal immigration. Too bad the City of New Haven doesn't see it!

I am rather surprised, however, that the "Independent" -- is it? -- has displayed its stripes on one side, i.e., that any immigration is good, and the distinction between legal and illegal does not appear to matter to the editor or the reporters. From an editorial perspective, the inclusion of an audio interview comparing the INS raid, pursuant to warrant, to Nazi actions, as if there was any truth to such a comparison, was a shame.

"Undocumented" immigrants should read "illegal" immigrants. Why that choice of words, Paul?

Posted by: pinkbicycle | June 7, 2007 11:34 PM

Weapons of mass distraction. We still can't get our soldiers home from Iraq and Afghanistan, but we can talk about illegal immigrants. But we only talk about the ones that speak spanish, nothing to be said for all the eastern european immigrants or asian immigrants that show up--No I guess because all that white skin they can blend in. If they don't talk at all you just assume they are white. It's easy to pick on mexicans and carribeans. It requires more intellectual thought to rat out eastern europeans and asians--who are perhaps more acceptable to America. The hypocrisy and racism is astounding. Whe you talk about human trafficking they ain't talking about mexicans--maybe a few, but overall, eastern europeans are doing it and asians. It is equally amazing how african-americans jump in and rant against illegal immigrants as if somehow we got here was so much more legitimate. Hell we've only just arrived fighting to get our rights fully implemented just a few years ago--how quickly we forget. Focus on the real issues and leave this crap alone.

Posted by: KAMB | June 8, 2007 8:10 AM

Pinkbike's comment proves that some people just dont get it. Everything is a white recial issue? Give me a break pinkbike! The reason Mexicans were hauled away in the round up is becasue they make up 80% of the illegal immigrants in this country. And Asians are not white they are Asians. As far as catching illegal europeans, your right, they are harder to find because they are the minority when it comes to illegal immigrants. They number in the low thousands, not the millions.

Posted by: Ned | June 8, 2007 8:37 AM

So the priest is all over immigrant rights in the U.S., while the Catholic Church is all out against Gay rights and reproductive rights all over the world.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | June 8, 2007 8:52 AM

I wanted to go to the mass last night but had our block watch meeting....Which makes me have to bring up something that was talked about at it.

These people that handed out thoses flyers may have planted a seed.
Racial tentions maybe starting to form. We ( my community) may try to have a community forum on this matter because of the diversity here.

I hope the city keeps an eye on the monster that may be forming around us. Talk to communitys about there feelings on this whole issue.

I support the id card and immigration reform but I was really shocked to see how many people don't and have not spoke about it till now.

Posted by: ASKTHERIGHTQUESTIONS | June 8, 2007 10:27 AM

Has anyone heard the figures of what this ID Card system means to the taxpayers of New Haven?

If all these people are immediately granted the same entitlements that average citizens are wouldn't it be safe to assume these folks will take advantage of them? Who's paying for it?

These politicians love taking the power out of our hands and doing what is best for them! Yet we still re-elect them, amazing huh?

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | June 8, 2007 11:02 AM

PinkBicycle
I Am A African American And The Reason That I Have
Jump On This Is Due To The Under Cutting Of Labor
That Illegal Immigrants Will Do. I Have Friends
Who Are In The Construction Trade And Are Threat With Being Told We Can Replace You With Good Old
Cheap Hardworkig Mexican Labor, Also The Other Day
The African American That Cuts My Lawn Told Me That Some Of His Customers Told Him That We He Finish That Some Mexicans In a Truck told Them That They will Do The Job Cheaper. My In Laws Are
From The Caribbean And It Took My Wife Aunt Ten Years to Become a Citizen And Another Fifteen Years to Finish Medical School And Law School Her
Aunt Is A Doctor And Lawyer.My First Wife Mother
Is From Panama and Her Father Is Dominican They
To Had To Apply And It Took Them Ten Years To Become A Citizen.I Say That We Must Focus On All Issues And This Issues Is Not Crap Because As A
African Americans When It Comes to Labor And Job Issues We Are Last Hired and First Fired!!

Posted by: Wjay | June 8, 2007 11:34 AM

The truly amazing part of this saga is that the New Haven Board of aldermen have abdicated their responsibilty to up the law of the city, state and nation, to the Mayor. The mayor is equally responsible for up holding the laws of the land. However, the mayor has abdicated his responsibility to a community services department head, Kica Motos, who is now dictating immigration policy to the U.S. government. Since when does a city department head assume the right to dictate immigration policy? More importantly, Matos appears to be stirring up more ill will throughout the city than the issue merits. The fact is that ICE was executing a cout order against certain law breaking felons. In the process new instances of violations occurred, and ICE acted within it's authority. Do you really think that the chief of police, who has imposed a policy of don't ask, don't tell, would have acted in concert with ICE? NO! Instead, The Mayor and Matos would have you believe that a conspiricy exist due to the recent passing of a ID card policy in the city of New Haven. If ICE felt that the ID card policy was a violation of U.S. immigration law, then they well could have arrested all law breakers including the BOA, the Mayor and Matos.
The advise here is to tone down the rhetoric, and let our U.S. representatives investigate the facts. That's their job. Not yours.
So bug out.

Posted by: Gary Doyens | June 8, 2007 12:34 PM

Matos' comments that "we are not backing down" is, to be generous, that of an underinformed and overwrought city taxpayer supported employee. Not backing down from what exactly? Does Ms. Matos have information that ICE's bust was in response to her pet Junta project? Not a scrap of support, of fact, not one interview has linked the ID program. All we have is Mayor DeStefano shooting off with his usual overheated rhetoric and Matos following on. To make matters worse, Matos usses the Catholic Church and all that illegal immigrant angst to do what? Well, of course, to market the ID cards -- sign up here in the back of the CHURCH. My Bible tells the story of Jesue throwing the money changers out of the church -- perhaps Matos should attend more, speak less and pass the lesson on to Fr. Manship too. I would have thought he studied these things and would know better.

Posted by: Come On | June 8, 2007 12:40 PM

WJAY,

Some of your facts are just wrong. No felons were arrested. In fact, only 4 people who ICE sought were arrested. ICE used the warrants as a reason to enter homes then took whoever was there. While 31 people were taken, only 4 were being sought via warrant, and none of these were for felonies. While ICE would have you believe that there were dangerous people being sought in some form of highly organized operation -- this was nothing but an attempt to send a message that ICE will do what it wants in New Haven.

Now New Haven will have to clean up the federal agents mess. For instance, left behind were small children including some who are US citizens. Does ICE have a strategy for what to do with these kids? Are we now safer that they no longer have a parent watching out for them?

And of course, at the beginning of the week there were between 10,000 and 15,000 undocumented immigrants in New Haven and today there are between 10,000 and 15,000 undocumented immigrants in New Haven. The only effect of these raids was to terrify (and in many cases break up) decent hardworking families.

Great.

Whose purpose does it serve to keep these people terrified and hidden. Get it through your head. These people are not going away and these raids are not immigration policy. They are meant to cover up for the lack of one.

Posted by: Ralph Rechtenberg | June 8, 2007 1:15 PM

DiStefano and the alderman HAVE GOT TO GO.

Posted by: Edward_H | June 8, 2007 2:31 PM

Threefifths

The African American That Cuts My Lawn Told Me That Some Of His Customers Told Him That We He Finish That Some Mexicans In a Truck told Them That They will Do The Job Cheaper

Just because someone is allegedly Mexican ( I say the word alleged because I am positive no one cared to ask them thier nationality)and works in landscaping does not equate them to being an illegal alien. This kind of ignorance and blatant racist thinking is exactly what makes people who want to take a serious look at immigration issues look bad.

Posted by: youlivethere | June 8, 2007 2:54 PM

Immigration is one of those issues you can't really straddle the line on. Being Mexican-American it is very hard to hear the pros and cons of immigration. I am proud to say that my parents were both born in Mexico and I am proud to be first generation American. It's very important to my family that I become part of the American culture but never forget what I am and where my family came from. I can't say that my parents came here to work the jobs people claim Mexicans are taking away from them because it's not true. I come from a middle-class family and my parents both run their own businesses but just because my family is doing ok doesn't mean I can forget about all the other Mexican families who are not.
Those who post and are against illegal immigration do not express their ideas on alternatives and ways to stop it rather they just yell and protest that its wrong. I am all for freedom of speech so please voice your opinions but realize that sometimes you need to make sense. Do you really think we can round up 13 million people and send them all back to their countries? The federal government would spend more money doing that instead of finding an alternative like a worker's visa or a way to integrate them into society. People don't realize what these people are fleeing from. I grew up in the south bordering Mexico and when I was a kid my siblings and I were materialistic just like any kid growing up in America. We wanted the new Nintendo, the coolest shoes and we would cry and whine every time we didn't get them. Then one day our parents put us all in the car and we made the 5 minute drive to Mexico. Not to the pretty parts that tourists visit but to the slums and the poorest areas in the city. We saw first hand the way some people live. I saw houses made out of cardboard that could barely stand. Houses that had no running water and some of the most unsanitary conditions ever. It made me come back down to earth and see why people leave their country to come to America. Not because they want to leave their family behind, not because they want to forget their culture but because if they don't leave they will die. They will die of famine and they will die knowing that a better future is only miles away.
Don't you think that these families want to be part of our society? As Americans we don't know what its like to not be able to enter another country. We apply for a passport and get it within a few weeks and with it we can go anywhere we want. Other countries can't do that. The process to enter the U.S. can take months and even years. These people "undocumented" "illegals" whatever you choose to call them want to be part of America. They want to pay their fair share of taxes, they want to speak English, they want their kids to go to our schools, they want to walk down the street and not feel afraid, they want to be part of the U.S. and the glorious things our country stands for.
The only way to fix illegal immigration is for the governments these people are fleeing from improve. We cannot blame it on the people but instead the ones running the country. Don't you think they would rather stay in their native land and avoid being humiliated and treated as second class human beings. We have forgotten that these people are human beings above all and deserve the same rights and respect any human being does. So for now we can fight and protest against them or we can unite to find a common solution to a problem that will never go away as long the United States stands. We are a country of immigrants and we need to embrace the fact rather than push it away.

Posted by: Ralph Rechtenberg | June 8, 2007 3:52 PM

Youlivethere wrote:

"Those who post and are against illegal immigration do not express their ideas on alternatives and ways to stop it rather they just yell and protest that its wrong."

Clearly illegal immigrants have no consideration for the laws of this country. If they did, they would have entered lawfully.

Yes, deport them - as harsh as it may sound. Prevent adult illegals from working. Prevent their children from going to school. Make every benefit of living in America inaccessible to those who have entered unlawfully. There will be little reason to come here then other than legally.

"The only way to fix illegal immigration is for the governments these people are fleeing from improve."

You have your priorities on backwards. That is their mess to fix, not ours. We have enough of a mess on our hands already. Let them go back over the border and take care of their problems themselves.

"We have forgotten that these people are human beings above all and deserve the same rights and respect any human being does."

They do not. And it incenses me that I, native born and bred, with an extended immigrant family who came here lawfully, am expected to welcome outsiders who claim the benefits of American life without abiding the laws its people have established.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | June 8, 2007 4:30 PM

Edward-H
How Do You Know There Are Not. I Belive My Land Scaper.

Posted by: Rizzo | June 8, 2007 10:19 PM

Oh, New Haven Independent, give us a break with the sob stories - it won't work, at least not with intelligent people. "The children, the children . . . ." "Parents taken from their homes . . ." Guess what, every time a drug dealer, burgler, rapist or other criminal is taken from their home, there are family members and of course children in there. Do we stop arresting criminals because of the "children"? The base appeal to sympathy is the lawbreaker's schtick. If their parents really cared about their children, they would not have broken the law and placed THEMSELVES in the position of being taken into custody. DeStefano's silly slogan(e.g., "undocumented (read: illegal) individuals (read: aliens) are hard-working people" is based on what? How does HE know how many of them work? He is the one WHO SAID CITY OFFICIALS AND POLICE WILL NEVER ASK ABOUT ONE'S IMMIGRATION STATUS. SO HOW THE HELL DOES HE SAY THEY'RE ALL HARD-WORKING PEOPLE? He is such an ass. For all he knows, 50% of them, or 30% of them are out there selling drugs and mugging people. Over at Superior Court at 121 Elm Street, a Spanish interpreter is needed constantly for the criminal arraignments. You mean all these people who can't speak English are legal citizens? Please . . . All over this nation, huge percentages of the states' prison populations ARE ILLEGAL ALIENS. Even the left-wing LA Times reported on the high percentage of them (some 60%) in the California prisons, costing American citizens and taxpayers billions of dollars to incarcerate and feed these people, and provide the welfare to the "children". The public hospitals there are caving under the budget crunch caused by illegals (with no money or insurance) using their ER's and coming in to have their babies. How much is DeStefano bilking taxpayers to pay for the public education of the aliens' kids? Including feeding them breakfast, lunch, and providing health care, social workers, etc. And he just raised our taxes, the lousy SOB, to pay for this crap. Good for the Feds for having the nuts to do this - let's hope they really get a pair of b--ls and indict this sorry ass Mayor. But let's make sure the Mayor's kids aren't home when they take him out in handcuffs. We don't want to hear that pathetic whiny voice of his, saying "the chilren, the children . . ."

Posted by: Walt | June 9, 2007 7:01 AM

Calling an illegal alien an undocumented person is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist,

Posted by: guest | June 9, 2007 1:42 PM

To cedarhill

Yeah, I am mad at the way it went down. And I am mad at the mayor, yale and matos. I've posted a lot about why.

There should have been full disclosure about the very interesting and otherwise laudible social activism the city was embarking on with the ID card. I am not saying this after the fact. I have been expressing concerns about the way they are going about this ID card thing for at least a year, at least a year cedar hill. I even telephoned one of the groups about an year ago to talk about some of the issues they weren't taking into account and were NOT DISCLOSING to people.

Enlisting support with patronizing half truths is vile, but typical of politcal operatives seeking more gold gilding on their resumes, or well-meaning activists subject to vanity and moral relatavism who fail to have faith in people to make decisions for themselves.

Robert Solomon isn't rotting in a jail cell away from his kids, with no idea what immigration judge he will face in what state without an attorney by his side --- and no, Yale will not be able necessarily to scramble attorneys to make all the hearings before they happen, before they figure out where all these people even are.

(And in the absence of their Yale attorneys, none will be appointed, so don't think they will get a public appointed attorney -- they won't -- there is no right to an attorney in immigration courts.)

They are not openly disclosing the risks of the ID card. That has been my beef for at least a year. Only in reports probably no one is reading there is some disclosure by them. What they are saying publicly doesn't exactly conform to what is in those reports. And actually what is in those reports doesn't exactly disclose all the risks either. Yale helped author the only report I read on it.

I think it is a very important movement. I am mad as hell at the disinguous way they did it. I think people participating with the ID should know EXACTLY what they are getting into.

I was mad at the raid here, I was even madder at the raid that went down in new mexico. The raids are going on all over the country and have been for a couple of years now. ICE even opened and staffed new offices throughout the country to do them. These raids were not invented last week in New Haven.

Surprisingly, in New Haven they apparently picked up a possible asylee from Guinea -- I wish we could read a lot more about him - it was only two lines in a news story and I want to know more. If he is a bonafide persecuted individual who has failed to win in court so far, his case probably in more dire than any of the other 30. SOMEONE???? Write about him.

All I can say about the leaders of this effort is cynical, that they "managed their people nicely." They aren't the real activists. THe real ones are the families who need the cards and the families torn apart by the raids. The civil disobedience wasn't Solomon's, Matos's or, please, Mayor Destefano's.

Posted by: Edward_H | June 9, 2007 5:45 PM

PINKBICYCLE

Weapons of mass distraction. We still can't get our soldiers home from Iraq and Afghanistan, but we can talk about illegal immigrants.

For some people the most pressing issues of the day is the Iraq war, for others it is immigration ,for others animal rights are the most important and to some a rise in the price of a cup of coffee at Starbucks is a world shattering event. To each there own.

--No I guess because all that white skin they can blend in.

Do they "blend in" due to their skin color or because they are not the instigators of events such as this?:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11442705/

I daresay people who exclaim "We did not cross the border, the border crossed us" are going to attract undue attention to themselves.

Note: Asians are not white. I am sure there is at least on Asian who was offended by that comment.

It is equally amazing how African Americans jump in and rant against illegal immigrants as if somehow we got here was so much more legitimate.

"How we got here"? I don't know about you but I was born within the borders of the USA. I suppose you are saying African-Americans are not allowed to join a debate on this issue simply due to the method by which their ancestors where brought here? Or are you saying this history should automatically place African-Americans on the side of illegal immigrants who wish an open border policy? After perusing some of the previous comments I would say a measurable portion of African-Americans would disagree. Personally I don't see how the history of slavery in America and the current immigration debate are connected. But as I said previously, to each their own.

Posted by: Edward_H | June 10, 2007 9:26 AM

THREEFIFTHS

Edward-H
How Do You Know There Are Not. I Belive My Land Scaper.

Are you serious? Your assumption that these men are Mexican illegal's shows a disturbingly racist thought process at work. I will try to make my points very clear:

1) Not every male of Latin-American descent or origin is a Mexican
2) Not every male of Latin-American descent or origin is an illegal alien
3) Not every Mexican is an illegal alien

Do you still not get it? Or are you so blinded by racism you still don't understand? Maybe I can put this in terms you are familiar with. If you see a black man with dreadlocks do you automatically assume he must be a marijuana smoking Rastafarian from Jamaica? Or if you see a Black woman with four kids do you assume she must be an unmarried mother on public assistance whose children all have different fathers? Or perhaps you are leaving something out of the story your landscaper told you? Did these men introduce themselves by saying "Hello we are illegal aliens from Mexico. We will cut your lawn cheaper!".

Posted by: Walt | June 11, 2007 10:46 AM

It will be easier in the future unless the feds begin enforcing the laws.

If they use a New Haven Resident I.D. you can be 99 44/100 % sure you are dealing with an Illegal alien.

Posted by: JMAC | June 11, 2007 8:42 PM

That is not true, Walt!

I am sure that many New Haven residents would like the benefit of having another ID.

I am a college student here in New Haven and I also rent an apartment. Do you think that I am an undocumented immigrant?

I will definitely be among the people to apply for one! As I feel anybody who supports the ID to benefit undocumented immigrants should register for one in support.

Check it!

Posted by: KAMB | June 11, 2007 10:58 PM

DeStefano would free all the dogs from the dog pounds too if he thought they knew how to pull a voting lever.

Posted by: ANT LIVE | June 12, 2007 4:40 PM

Well, if a big time performer like "Lila Downs" says I should support illegal immigrants, then maybe I have this all wrong!

I will once again re-iterate my stance. Immigration is awesome for this country. Illegals borderjumpers on the other hand, are criminals and deserve to be treated as such.

Posted by: Ralph Rechtenberg | June 13, 2007 9:57 AM

TO THE EDITORS:

"Feds Blink" - an editorial headline if ever there was one. It has become difficult for a reader to trust The New Haven Independent's reporting on illegal immigration. You've become like the New York Times - an activist rag pretending to tell it all and tell it like it is. But you're telling it your way and leaving it at that.

How about, for example, a story on Len Fasano's idea that New Haven forfeit state money if it went ahead with the ID plan? This is a great idea and should be effected at once.

Where is the other side of the story?

Posted by: Bernard Bate | June 13, 2007 10:57 AM

On this list, as on a few others over the past week, we have heard people calling for mass deportation of undocumented immigrants. The call is being propagated by an increasingly well organized nativist/totalitarian movement organized by such groups as www.grassfire.org which was able to generate some 700,000-1,000,000 signatures over the past month. [See their petition explicitly calling for this action at http://grassfire.org/42/petition.asp; See, too, a chilling piece on the abject racism of these groups and their supporters in Congress in last Sunday's NYT, 9 June 2007, 'Grass Roots Roared and Immigration Plan Collapsed.']

We should put this movement in perspective: the deportation of 12-20 million people would represent the largest forced migration in history; it would represent the single largest mass migration since the Partition of India and Pakistan; it would tear apart families and terrorize communities; it would divide the country possibly to the point of civil war. On the more mundane economic front, it would result in fruits and vegetables rotting in the orchards and fields and fresh produce being priced out of reach of the middle classes.

Finally, and most importantly, it would be wrong - ethically, morally, and spiritually wrong. It would put the US, once again, on the wrong side of history, on the side of African slavery, on the side of the American genocide. We look back upon these periods in history with shame, as well we should. And we wonder how people could do such things.

We see in the letters that have swamped these lists in the past week the chilling logic that backs how people could do such things. So, let's be clear about what kind of transhistorical evil grassfire.org and their supporters are asking our country to partake of. They are statistically small, but highly motivated, well-organized, and therefore very dangerous.

And while we can look with shame on our history, we can also be proud that we have stood up to such evils, even here in New Haven: the Amistad memorial vividly testifies that good people stood against and defeated inhumanity in the past. As we gathered before that memorial yesterday in confronting racist totalitarianism, let us continue to stand with our Mayor, with our Board of Alders, and with our neighbors in New Haven in reasserting the Enlightenment principles that all men and women are equal and have equal rights - regardless of how we might categorize them.

Posted by: win | June 14, 2007 3:43 PM

It is not racism to be against illegal immigration, where is your reason. Why on earth should these people be able to get away with crime because of their ethnic background? That is not equal rights, that is against our constitution.

Are you suggesting that the crimes in this pdf are ok because of their race or ethnic background? That is called
supremacist.

If you search for it on google you can find a pdf of the documents on why this raid happened. There was alot of crime going on their.

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/070612_DelMonte_affidavit.pdf

Posted by: Uncle Nunzio | June 15, 2007 10:49 AM

Well, considering that an illegal citizen is not a citizen of the United States: What rights under the US Constitution do they have?

I guess any publicity is good publicity for DeStefano. He cares more about himself, then he does for the people of New Haven. Time to vote him out.

Posted by: Taxed To Death in NH | June 15, 2007 11:07 AM

All he needs is a number on his chest -- this picture looks like a mug shot.

Posted by: Teddy | June 15, 2007 12:00 PM

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...

There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

--Theodore Roosevelt, 1919

Posted by: guest | June 18, 2007 6:11 PM

Read the op-ed in NYT today. Where ever you stand on the issue of illegal immigration, this op-ed will give you something to think about. The author takes a stand, but some of the examples he cites show how ironic and unjust the laws and their enforcement are.

It shows that immigrants involved in a legal process are arrested anyway. And it shows the inexcusable human rights violation of refusing to return children to parents.

No one who is oppposing illegal immigration wants this, and I bet many aren't aware how complicated it is and how abusive and unjust the process of legal immigration has become. Enforcement is not some clear cut thing folks. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NYT
June 17, 2007
Op-Ed Contributor
Impounded Fathers
By EDWIDGE DANTICAT
MIAMI
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/opinion/17danticat.html