New Haven Independent

Posted by: Taxed To Death | June 20, 2007 10:22 AM

A "dialogue project"??? What's needed in Edgewood and other crime infested neighborhoods are dialogue projects? How about action -- sitting around drinking tea, eating crumpets and having a dialogue about doing something is a sorry substitute for action by residents and accountability vs. lip service from the police. God knows they have enough money -- reduce crime.

As for those who are concerned about racial profiling -- who have gotten sucked into the morass of rumor mongering vs. fact -- shame on you. These are your neighbors -- do you think they're more driven by racial profiling or protecting their friends and neighbors? Get real. If you believe those rumors you either have too much time on your hands or your one of the "dialogue" people.

Posted by: on whalley | June 20, 2007 10:31 AM

I'm sorry, was I supposed to get the okay from everyone in the city when I first started carrying?

I have yet to receive an explanation from anyone as to why this city and this state are so terrified of lawful gun owners. I'll assume this is because there is no reason other than irrational fear mongering and ignorant paranoia.

Hey, whatever makes the crazies feel better.

Next time there's a homicide or a mugging we'll suggest to the victims family perhaps they should have offered the assailant a hug.

Is there some local organization of gun owners at the city level? I know of the many global and national and the few state but there must be a local organization, no? I think New Haven sorely needs a stiff shot of reality with a common sense chaser.

I'll have to ask around and do some research.

Posted by: robn | June 20, 2007 1:17 PM

OnWhalley,

You've repreatedly asked why NHI readers are so terrified of guns (forget "legal" gun owners becuase they're also part of the bad stats). Here's why..

1) Although gun violence has declined since then, in 1996, 34,040 people died from gunfire in the United States. Of these deaths, approximately 54 percent resulted from suicide, 41 percent resulted from homicide, and 3 percent were unintentional. Firearm injuries are the eighth leading cause of death in the United States. In addition, for every fatal shooting, there are roughly three nonfatal shootings.

2) In a Washington state study, members of handgun-owning families were twice as likely to die in a suicide or homicide as members of the same age, sex, and neighborhood who had no history of handgun purchase.

3) In another Washington state study, for every case in which an individual used a firearm kept in the home in a self-defense homicide, there were 1.3 unintentional deaths, 4.6 criminal homicides, and 37 suicides involving firearms.

If you can find more recent stats refuting these, I'd love to see them.

sources:
http://www.vpc.org/studies/wher2gen.htm

http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/pubs/gun_violence/sect01.html

Posted by: nfjanette | June 20, 2007 1:27 PM

Many residents said the citizen patrol did not make them feel safe, but more worried.

With due respect to the reporter, I don't believe a few people strongly expressing that concern at the meeting can be accurately characterized as "many residents". In truth, we don't know what most residents feel about the various proposed solutions, because most residents are not participating in the dialogue on these matters, to the detriment of everyone concerned. Only by maximizing the participation of the WEB residents will be best be able to discuss and implement whatever needs to be done in coordinated effort with the police department to ensure the safety of our families.

Posted by: WEBbloger 1 | June 20, 2007 1:47 PM

One resident, Frank Cochran, said the gun-toting patrol should have discussed its plans with the management team, a recognized community group. "I'm concerned that the armed group never brought the subject to this group first," he said.

He suggested that the upcoming Tuesday meeting be a "dialogue project" moderated by Community Mediation.

Frank Cochran, are you for real??
Community mediation.. What!!

Two people were murdered in your area and you want to mediate. Your a lawyer, you can mediate the trial and conviction in court not in a community meeting where crime is running rampant. Or, Haven't you heard?? There is no remedies on the table from the police or from your group, that would suggest a new and different approach to the increasing criminal elements in edgewood and across the city. Criminals are becoming more emboldend due to police soft on crime posture.

At least the Edgewood patrols have put real meat on the table, and are putting their butts where their mouth is.

And all you want to do is mediate??

GET REAL......

Posted by: westvillecharlie | June 20, 2007 2:54 PM

I'd like to invite greer and his bike posse up to the other side of the park, in my neighborhood (central / west rock - edgewood - elm) where my elderly neighbor was just robbed of her jewlry and other items while she shopped down the street. The good folks at the N.H.P.D. were there for ten minutes. Shoot first, question later.
Get the cops on biclycles and into EVERY neighborhood - NOW.
I have absolutely no confidence in the NHPD protecting me or my family. NONE.
and curtis slewa, you and al sharpton should get on a boat and just go away. leave new haven to new haveners.

Posted by: Ned | June 20, 2007 4:44 PM

Robn, only some NHI readers are "terrified" of guns. Please speak for yourself. Check out these sites for a different take on gun violence:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1566715.stm

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/second_amendment/rk0405/

Furthermore, with rabid homophobia being preached every "holy" day, in religious gatherings everywhere, I'm hardly going to entrust my life to the goodwill of my Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, whatever, neighbors. Crime takes many forms, property crimes seem to rank lower than the crime of denying one's right to peaceably exist. Ask the unarmed Jews of Nazi Germany.

I don't think armed patrols are an appropriate response to street crime, but I don't have any objection to someone obtaining a concealed carry permit, for a firearm, and going about their own business unmolested and respecting the rights of others to do the same. Would there be the same concern if the patrols were armed with stun guns or mace? Why are people, who demonstrate violent tendencies, released back into the communities that they cannot function in without social and economic support?

"If guns kill people..., spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat."

Posted by: nfjanette | June 20, 2007 5:40 PM

OnWhalley,

You've repreatedly asked why NHI readers are so terrified of guns (forget "legal" gun owners becuase they're also part of the bad stats). Here's why..

Robn,

I've enjoyed working with you on WEB meetings and have tremendous respect for you and your work. I must, however, take exception to your position on this matter.

Here's the simple test: if you set the clock back two weeks ago, what did everyone in WEB (and elsewhere) agree was the number one problem? Answer: criminals, with and without guns, that were preying on citizens of all races, creeds, and colors.

Why then, have you and others directed your focus and efforts upon the announcement by one of the new citizen patrols that they would carry weapons for which they already had obtained legal permits and already could have been carrying? No matter what your beliefs about the rights of citizens to carry guns - and you'd find me both supporting the basic right but with much tougher checking and testing - the primary problem hasn't changed. Remember: it's the criminals, not the law abiding citizens that have been robbing, mugging, selling drugs, and assaulting us all.

Everyone should focus their efforts on supporting whatever effort they feel best matches their beliefs: blockwatches (with take back the night marches?), Guardian Angels, Edgewood patrol, etc. The effort should be directed toward fighting crime, not each other.

Posted by: Mich | June 20, 2007 8:46 PM

Once again, yet another person was shot in this neighborhood today. This time in the face. I'm so sick of this! Do I wish that unarmed citizen was also carrying?... Yes I do! Sure many of you could say "Violence only begets more violence" but what are we suppose to do? That's the question. Personally, I believe that CT needs to practice capital punishment more. Yes, I said it! It doesn't matter what age the assailant is. If you commit 1st degree murder (where the evidence is undisputable), you receive capital punishment. Period. And none of this being on death row for years on end either.

Robn, your statistics are applicable only to the United States. Many other countries have more libral gun laws yet do not have these issues of violence. So what's wrong with our society here in the United States? That's what we need to explore.

As far at the Edgewood Park Defense Patrol goes, I support them. They are trying to actually do something. They are not breaking any laws. I'm sure each one of them would rather be spending time with their families instead of patroling the dangerous streets of New Haven. Instead, they are desperately trying to protect our neighborhood. For all of you that thinks the E.P.D.P would have a problem with racial profiling, did you think the same way when Malcolm X decided to legally take arms? Now don't get overly excited because I dropped Malcom's name. My point here is that law abiding citizens that have organized themselves to make a much needed change in their community does not have to be a bad thing. And quit with race card already. I say let's ALL organize and make New Haven a safe place for all of us. If we don't get moving on this, one of us might be next!

Posted by: On Whalley | June 20, 2007 10:20 PM

Sorry ROBN, but statistics are, if you'll excuse my language, crap. Pro-gun, anti-gun can go back and forth all day with stats on both sides and still we end up in the same place. You are afraid of guns.

Why are you afraid of them? If stats dictate your fears then swimming pools should terrify you as they are responsible for far more deaths. So should cars, fatty foods, lethargy and, oddly enough, stress and worrying. These all result in far more deaths each year than guns. Not to mention the assaults and murders committed everyday without guns.

So why are you afraid of guns?
I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts you fear them either because you have had no experience with one outside of movies or you have been taught to fear them from a young age like so many urbanized Americans have consequently contributing to the bastardized image of power and control they have been coated with and hence have become the tool of choice for petty fame seeking gangland criminals rather than leaving them to simply be the thing the kids on the rifle team had or the the thing dad used to get that coyote in the yard or the thing the family went to practice with on weekends at the range and sister was so good she got a trophy. Nope. Fear, specifically urbanized fear, has manufactured this evil and taboo image of what a gun is. Ask a child of sensible parents what a gun is and he will describe a simple long rifle, ask some city kid what a gun is and I guarantee you'll be met with an excited rambling description of some monstrous thing he saw in a move or pictured on the news or, thanks to the fear again, has seen a police officer carrying around his school.

I think you're afraid of the image you have been presented and nothing of any more substance than that. The poor things have been stereotyped, blacklisted and discriminated against. If you'd like Ill explain the banning of the AK-47 in Connecticut to you and if you are capable of rational thought you'll notice the banning of the AK is not at all unlike racial prejudice or any other form of bigotry. You could research it yourself if you think I'll spin it. Try to understand why in CT I cannot own an AK-47 but I can and do own a Ruger Mini-30. It's enough to drive a man mad and more than adequately describes the endless ignorance of those who write and propose gun control laws. I wouldnt be half as frustrated if there was simply some intellectual consistency within this particular law but there simply is not. One is banned because it is scary. It doesnt go any deeper than that.

Remember, like I said, statistics are crap.

http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/stats.html
http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2004/0303.html
http://www.justfacts.com/issues.guncontrol.asp
http://www.blackmanwithagun.com/

Heres what happens when fear wins over liberty:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/02/24/nguns24.xml
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=nr&id=570

Posted by: East Rock | June 21, 2007 8:51 AM

The people who are so fearful of law abiding citizens carry firearms are just naively unaware of the fact that all those law abiding citizens are already carrying.

The reason you are naive to the fact is because the law abiding carriers are not out shooting each other on a daily basis.

Guns carried by legal permit holders are not (should not)be drawn unless they are directly attacked or intervening on the behalf of a defenseless victim.

I choose to not be a victim. You make your decision.