New Haven Independent

Posted by: on whalley | June 22, 2007 10:51 AM

Im not exactly sure what todays kids expect. I mean, they cant hold a converstion with an adult. They speak some sort of gibberish between slang and text messaging even when in a professional environment. From friends who teach around here I hear they actually turn in papers written as though they were 'texting' them. The schools year after year have been lowering the bar rather than forcing students to comply to higher standards. Crime and violence is glorified in their communities and they will steal for the sake of stealing! Ive seen it numerous times and had it admitted to me on more than one occasion. Its not for the item or for the money. Its just to steal.

With their absolute lack of interpersonal and communication skills and their uncanny ability to drop any pants, be they uniform issue or other, down to their knees and still walk they cannot be exposed to front end public positions.

I wouldnt hire any of these kids. I wouldnt want them to represent my business to the public and I wouldnt trust them with merchandise.

When you come to fill out an application try speaking well, wearing clothes that fit, and project a resposable and, God help me, ALERT personality.

The current culture has worked very hard to ensure these kids wont be able to perform even the most menial tasks. Perhaps if they promise not to open their mouths and if the shop has adequate security coverage they could find a custodial position.

And whats with the bit about how much the state spends on incarcerated criminals vs. on jobs for kids? Are they suggesting jobs be created for the kids? More welfare off of my dollar because they cant go find a job based on their merit or value to the work force?

Why am I surprised? Expect and encourage better performance in our schools and families while frowning upon deviant behavior and the collapse of the family unit or just write a check and feel better about ourselves?

I'm continually shocked by idiotic policies and I dont know why. I mean, just the other day DeStefano came to the grand realization that encouraging for-profit business in the city would be good for economic/job growth. I'm sure that was a tough realization for him. Somebody get him a cookie and some Tylenol.

Posted by: charlie | June 22, 2007 1:11 PM

I agree, onWhalley. And we need to start by eliminating subsidized housing and cracking down very hard on antisocial street behavior. Harass people until they leave town. New Haven has way more than its fair share of subsidized housing, supportive housing, drug treatment, etc., so it's time to have the suburbs take up part of the burden. Right now. Otherwise, what do you expect when people think they can take jobs for granted? I guarantee if any kid cleaned up, dressed up for the interview and was willing to work hard, they would be able to hold down a job. Let's make that the way to go by cracking down and locking up repeat offenders with triple sentences. Violent first time offenses should carry a minimum 10 years, repeat 30 years. Maybe we need to build more prisons so the offenders can stay in for longer. That would create jobs for people.

Posted by: zuzuharv | June 22, 2007 1:28 PM

Just for the record, I wouldn't hire YOU, sir - for all of your bluster about youth's inability to communicate with adults, you yourself are evidently incapable of constructing a written response that isn't fatally riddled with grammatical and spelling errors.

You might consider the importance of not appearing stupid yourself before firing off future invectives about the perceived abilities of others.

Posted by: Tori | June 22, 2007 3:34 PM

First, bravo, YRM!

Second, OnWhalley, none of the students in the above article speak in "gibberish" or incomprehensible slang. Did you watch the video of the poem? Did you read the quotes from the kids? How did you arrive at the conclusion that teenagers are unfit to hold retail jobs? Perhaps it has to do with your assumptions about them, about their skin color, about their age, or simply your close-mindedness. I don't know if you're a small-business owner or someone who might employ youth labor, but if you are, have a little faith. Teach kids what they need to know about holding down a job. Some kids learn these skills from their parents, but others don't - shouldn't they deserve the chance to learn, without people assuming they're no good?

I would give up trying to find a job if this was the attitude I encountered from adults.

Posted by: mary | June 22, 2007 11:04 PM

omg we need to listen to kids and start to care. I bet if you get to know a kid they will know how to act,talk and dress to impress.you are so right tori the kids need to learn the skills they need to join the workforce and its up to adults to teach them.Just as we were taught as kids.Its no wonder kids act as they do when people knock them down without giving them a chance.Great job youth rights media keep letting the kids be heard!!!!!

Posted by: rizzo | June 23, 2007 11:34 PM

Comparing what is spent on prisons vs. what is spent on "youth jobs" (whatever that term is supposed to mean) makes no sense. Government does not create jobs - business creates jobs. As to the complaint that it is hard for a youth who gets arrested to get a job, the answer is - DUH -don't commit crimes. As for those youths without criminal records who claim they can't get hired, here's an easy roadmap to employment: 1) try speaking proper English and drop the ebonics; 2) dress appropriately; 3) get out there and look for a job and stop hanging out on the streets expecting some government agent to approach you and hand it to you; 4) don't drop out of school and then claim you are worth something; 5) write your local school board and insist that teachers stop spending half the school year on multi-culturalism, lectures on how to invoke your fifth amendment rights, and the Amistad and focus instead on economics (not the socialist welfare kind) math, history (not the revisionist "make all groups feel good kind) and technology; 6) don't get pregnant at age 16; 7) don't get anyone else pregnant.

Posted by: nfjanette | June 24, 2007 1:04 AM

Based upon personal observation and experience, it's inaccurate to claim that there are not significant problems with spoken and written communication with the average New Haven high school student. It may also be fair to state that there are similar issues across a wide variety of high school students from various cities and towns; I've spoken to language educators that are tearing their collective hair out over the poor state of the average high school student's ability to use proper written language. The communication issues for urban young adults, however, are sometimes exacerbated further by the use of slang that is first nature to them but is foreign and inappropriate in many customer interaction settings.

The again, my own writing might be unintelligible without the aid of modern spell-checking offered by computers.

Posted by: Lemon | June 25, 2007 1:36 AM

Anyone who claims that the "government doesn't create jobs - business creates jobs" must have not done so well in high school history. Ever heard of FDR? WPA? If that eludes the Independent's intrepid readers, perhaps more recent political happenings are needed to clear the fog in some brains. Our former governor awarded $57 million to private contractors to build the CT juvenile "training school" in exchange for free renovations on his summer home. If you're concerned about the waste of taxpayer dollars, take a closer look at our criminal justice system.

Posted by: on whalley | June 25, 2007 8:04 AM

TORI,

"Perhaps it has to do with your assumptions about them, about their skin color, about their age, or simply your close-mindedness."

I dont have to make assumptions when they stumble in around 1:00 in the afternoon looking as though they have just gotten out of bed and ask for a job application during pauses from their ongoing cell phone conversation that includes more vulgarity and profanity than I use in a years time. This person could be 17 or 48, I dont care how old they are. And who said anything about race? I find that stupidity, irresponsablity, and poor work ethic are as universal as bowel movements. There is a reason employers follow a process of interview and some employers mandate trial hire periods. To claim any of my experience with these kids and residents of this city in general is simple bigotry for age, race or whatever is idiocy. I always let them prove their uselessness to me. I dont exactly have to look for it.

Posted by: Clifford W. Thornton, Jr. | June 25, 2007 9:03 AM

We have as adults created this problem our youth face. Sure, thier English may not be the king's English but this is part of the dumbing down of America. You see, the authorities created the problem and now we are not only blaming our youth for their situation but want to lock them up as well.

What does one expect when our children are faced with getting beat up, shot, molested, and pass drug dealers on thier way to school each day.---How do you expect most of them to act?

We are responsible for our youth. What is it that history says?---A society is judged by the way in which it treats its old and young people.

Someone once said "the only thing that gaurantees our freedom is responsibility--we lost that somewhere between Vietnam and presidential blow jobs? Let us look at this problem with the critical thinking necessary to come to concrete solutions.

Posted by: Edward_H | June 25, 2007 9:34 AM

LEMON

The government does not create jobs in the manner the private sector does, and it by no means creates wealth. With the execption of the Post Office, it provides no competitive goods or services people are willing to pay for. The government simply redistributes the tax money it collects from the people and businesses who are actually driving the economy. The best thing the government can do to help create jobs is fostering a environment friendly to business.

ONWHALLEY
I agree with you on many of your points. Although I don't think the kids portrayed in this article are as bad as the ones you describe. There are some very decent kids out there, the problem is the ones who stand on the corners of places like Whalley and Winthrop tend to get more attention.

I am tired of these bleeding heart apologists who love to make excuses for sub-standard behavior and actions they would never tolerate from their own children. I am positive if any of these posters had a child who behaved in the manner you describe the would immediately jump down off their high horses and at minimum give their kid a strongly worded lecture.

Posted by: Sally Joughin | June 25, 2007 12:08 PM

Some of the mean-spirited comment-writers, who refer to urban youth as "they", probably did not attend last Thursday's screening of Youth Rights Media's new film. I saw the film and heard the youth filmmakers speak to the audience about their work. Wow! What a great group of New Haven young people. I congratulate them for their insights about youth employment problems, their technical abilities, and the way in which they work together and support each other. If I had a business, I would sure want to hire any one of those youth I heard speaking on that stage.

Wouldn't it be excellent if we had more organizations in New Haven like Youth Rights Media, that focus on a particular interest, so that many more young people could get involved with a youth group doing an activity they care about. Of course there will be kids, just like there are adults, who are into negative behavior and hard to reach. But many others just need to be shown an opportunity or have someone reach out to help them. If a youth has made a mistake and ends up with a criminal record, it is extra hard to get a job (as the film conveys); the community should want to help them get a good job rather than punish them further. If young people can get a good job, there will not be the temptation to sell drugs or do other negative things. There also need to be appropriate opportunities for youth under 18 to earn money. All of this benefits both the individual and the whole community. As for speaking well and dressing well in order to land a job, this is something that students could mentor other students about.

Posted by: on whalley | June 25, 2007 12:49 PM

"There also need to be appropriate opportunities for youth under 18 to earn money."

I remember mowing lawns, delivering papers, odd jobs for families around the neighborhood.

I also remember being 16 and the law telling me I couldnt work full time. I was trying to find full time work from the age of 12 but for some reason somewhere along the timeline a bunch of people decided as a 12-16 year old I shouldnt be allowed to work. They claimed child-labor was wrong and evil. Well, sure, mandating children into labor is wrong. Its slavery to mandate anyone to anything. But I wanted to work and couldnt. There's a good 5 years of full time wages I wasnt allowed to earn. Maybe I should sue the government for lost wages. I'm sue I wasnt the only kid who wanted to get out and make a living.

Lets take some of these kids who's parents dont care about them and who dont care about school and offer them some trade work. Make more carpenters, electricians and plumbers and welders out there. Out on the farm you've got 10 year old kids welding and driving mutlti-thousand dollar equipment that seems designed to tear off limbs.
Of course the 'brown tide' as it has been called would have to be stopped to ensure these skills could be marketed.

Cities are missing this and city children are growing fat, lazy, disrespectful and complacent with their failures explaining them with the occasional cry to 'eat the rich' or whatever scapegoat happens to be popular at the time.
Theyre designed to be wards of the state and nothing more ensuring future generations of government dependence.

Posted by: Ashley Burney | June 25, 2007 2:06 PM

I can't believe the close-mindedness of some of these "so-called" adults that are posting these comments. But on the otherhand, it doesn't surprise me because of the way youth are portrayed anyway. I am one of those youth that you guys are refering to and I am also a member of Youth Rights Media. I feel like some of you failed to grasp the true purpose of the message we were trying to convey with our documentary "Help Wanted". Some of you say that we can't get jobs because we don't know how to talk properly, how to dress presentable, or even how to act appropriately. However, my question for you guys is: who's teaching us? Some youth are brought up in an environment where they don't really have anyone to actually turn to. Some come from broken homes or maybe they just had it rough growing up. No one is really there to teach them how to act in an interview. Not many schools prepare youth for the "real world" or the workforce. If youth aren't taught these things than how do you expect them to just wake up one day and automatically know the proper things to do? And another thing, just because a group of youth are hanging on the corner after hours, doesn't necessarily mean that they're out doing negative activities. However, adults are going to be quick to assume they are because of all the news coverage portraying youth as animals and people who are out of control.

[Just a few people I wanted to respond to:]
OnWhalley: Here we have another person who has let their ignorance cloud their thinking. From what I've read, you are just as bad as the media. I think that if you take the time and actually think outside the box, you wouldn't let this ignorance get the best of you. Youth are not at all how you see them. You have to realize that we're human beings and we're going to make mistakes. At Youth Rights Media, we are taught that everyone has something to teach, and everyone has something to learn. Youth need to be taught the proper way to go about things in regards to employment. However, you have to learn the way youth really are. You have to dig deep inside yourself and actually sit down with a young person, disregard what they're wearing and the way they talk and get to know exactly who a young person is on the inside. You have to understand that at some point in time, you were a young person yourself.

Charlie: Do you honestly think that incarcerating everyone is going to solve this city's problems? If you do than honestly, you're more close-minded than I thought. Jails are not the solution to every problem. If you think they are, then I'd like to see you spend 2 weeks in jail and tell me how you like it. Don't advocate for something that you couldn't see yourself being apart of. If you haven't noticed, incarceration doesn't rehabilitate the people who go to jail. If so, people wouldn't be re-entering the facilities if that was the case. And even if you did try to get rid of all the "bad" people, the problem still isn't eliminated. So I think maybe next time before you say something, make sure it's well thought out and actually a little bit more logical because I can tell you didn't really think before you typed your comment.

Posted by: Wjay | June 25, 2007 2:40 PM

Well said Ashley, obviously you are not the typical youth referred to in all the other post.
You did not say whether or not you currently had a job. If so, why not explain to the posters how you went about it. Certainy, there are many urban youth who also DO NOT WANT A J O B. How do we explain the fact that the illegal immigrant, who cannot speak well, comes from a poor family back ground, is uneducated, yet is willing and does work daily at jobs our american urban youth could be doing??
I call it determination and cultural pre- disposition. prehaps you and other youth of the media group would be willing to provide training and job skill advise to the unemployable, for a salary of course!

Posted by: bjfair | June 25, 2007 4:45 PM

What a sad commentary on society when adults blame youth for all the ills created by their ignorance and intolerence. With all the self righteousness and putdown of our youth it's no wonder you can't engage them? As Ashley stated some of you must have forgotten what it was like being a kid. Whalley sounds like a vey BITTER OLD MAN so he probably HAS forgotten. Don't blame the youth for your sour life experience. Yes, there are a lot of kids out there who may not want to work(for peanuts) but I guarantee you that there are a whole lot more who DO want to work and do the right thing. How about lifting them up instead of taking this opportunity to tear them down. So what if they youth are making their OWN fashion statement. Didn't we as young people? They wear their clothes the way they do because society has rejected them and so they rebel wanting no part of the status quo.As Ashley said look beyond the exterior. How many youth have you greeted today and asked how they were doing? How many have you given a helping hand?(not a handout, because that's not what they want). If you see where they need help, reach out to them. It's great that these young people have someone in their life that has recognized their talent and believes in their ability to succeed. Hopefully they won't internalize your negativity and bitterness. Finally to the one who didn't get it... the message behind the comparison between what is spent on incarcerating our youth and edcuating them is simple: It's indicative of how we feel about youth when we are willing to spend millions more on prisons than they do on education, job and skill development and recreation for the youth. Whalley, I'm sorry that you have intolerance for the poor because they are always going to be among us. Shall we incarcerate all of them and keep them out of sight, out of mind?? If not for the Grace of God you might be one of them. Hopefully you will never be faced with their pain. I doubt you'd survive. My grandparents (who had GREAT wisdom and Humility) taught me that if I had nothing good to say to someone then don't say anything at all. These kids hear enough putdowns in their daily lives. They don't need you.YRM, keep up the good work!!!You are awesome!!! Just show those who have little faith that YOU WILL SUCCEED in spite of useless chatter.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | June 25, 2007 8:20 PM

I had a young man from Hill House call my office, asking if he would be able to come and spend a day there to learn about our business....but he was lucky he got me first I had to get him to present him self better. He did talk with a bit of a street slang and really had know idea what he was doing. But after 5 minutes with me I put him through with one of the bosses and told him to say what we went over and he was invited to come in for the day. Which may of even led to a part time job. But he never showed up. I was so sad for him it was a good opportunity.

But on that note unlike "rocker me" my son is an urban kid and so are his friends. And I have to say these kids could not get jobs. I told my son and his friend go in there wearing clothes that fit (dangit!!). Do you know they all got jobs. this is a diverse group of inner-city kids yes some from broken homes. I relize that people should see through the appearance but that is not going to happen.

Ashley you do make a very good point and a true one. But even a child from that background has eyes to see what people have jobs. These kids are not without intelligence they need to realize sometimes pride needs to be left at the door, take what ever job you can get, do your best at it knowing that your sacrifice is to build your resume.

I have to say NO CHILD should ever be turned away if they are turning that corner in life to a better place.

Fabulous job youth rights media!!

But I do want to agree with one comment about goverment programs, sometimes I wonder if they are really helping people or are they keeping people down by not giving that push they need to better there lives. The results of this are children in "bad situations". The parents lose that social involment and they children get rapped up in that world and end up growing up in worse shape than the prior geneation. There has to be a better way.

Posted by: on whalley | June 26, 2007 8:42 AM

For the record I'm 27 years old.

I dont remember ever being 'taught' to behave properly. Anyone with the ability to pay attention would notice that behaving certain ways brings about different reaction in different people.

Just because I wouldnt hire the sloppy kids who pass through doesnt mean I blame them for societal ills. I blame government education, the collapse of the family unit and hyper liberal policies that say "its okay to fail" or "its not your fault youve failed" or "fail all you want government will be there to take care of you."

It may not be all the kids fault theyre incapable of functioning in society but it certainly isnt all their fault either.

I dont know what other excuses will be drug out for the failing of these kids but Im from a broken home my fathers a drunk my mother a whore, the block which I grew up on is half crack houses, half condemned and I still know what behavior is acceptable and is not. I still know that the easiest way to not have a criminal past is to not commit crimes, I still know that personal responsability for each member of a society is the only way a society will last.

So tell me again what excuses these kids? Tell me again why it isnt their fault theyre incompetent and why I should put out even more to make up for someone elses failures?

Life is not hard at all. Just show up and make an effort and you're already head and shoulders above your peers.

Everybody has to stop makng excuses. Kids need to stop blaming their parents or their neighborhood just like many of you should stop blaming perceptions you dont necessarily agree on with ignorant write-offs such as "he's just a bitter old man."

Blaming everyone else just wastes time you could be doing something productive.

These kids know damn well how to behave and exactly what they need to do to excel. They just dont want to do it. Hell, some of them were my neighbors growing up. What makes me so special that my pants arent down to my knees and I dont spend my free time standing in front of the package store asking for change. You know what its like to have a buddy you were in school in, who by all accounts had a more stable start than you, ask you for change everyday as you come home from work? Theres no excuse for it except that he failed and isnt willing to admit it and get on with his life. There is absolutely no situation out there that isnt surmountable. I dont care where youre from, how many times you were robbed, raped, beaten or how many times you got sick. You can get over all of it. Some of these kids will and some of them wont. Im not willing to sacrifice what I have earned to support one of these lost cause kids. If that kid is going to change he'll do it on his own.

Posted by: Ashley Burney | June 26, 2007 9:08 AM

First off, I'd like to say that youth need adults to support them and play a role in guiding them in the right direction. You can't say you're leading by example and then look at a young person as if they're a disgrace because of the clothes they decide to where or the way they talk and present themselves. As I was saying before, we don't really have anyone to teach us these things so when youth do go for interviews or even to get an application, they're turned away. It's no one person's issue, everyone is affected by this issue in one way or another.

[One person I wanted to respond to]

WJAY:
Why should it be up to Youth Rights Media to provide training to the unemployable. Honestly, I feel that it's really up to the city to provide that training and from what I see, they're not really doing their job well. You asked if I have a job and here is your answer: I am a youth organizer. I am also a self-advocate and I advocate for youth because I myself am a youth. Though I have dedication, not many youth are as fortunate to have that sort of drive because day in and day out, you have all of these people telling you that you're nothing and that you can't make anything of yourself. If you grow up in a society where you have all of these people looking down upon you, it's going to live with you. Eventually you're going to start believing it after a while. You know what that's called? Internalized oppression. Why? As I said before, you start believing it and it's going to weigh down on you and you're going to feel like there's nothing you can do because everywhere you turn someone is telling you you can't make it.

If anyone wants to discuss this topic any further, you can e-mail me at: ash_burney@yahoo.com. Thank you.

Posted by: Wjay | June 26, 2007 11:54 AM

Well said again Ashley....

You make your points clearly and distintive. One major fault however, in each of your post you tend to dedicate most of your response in critizing the others, such as the city, adults, and society in general for the actions or lack of action on the part of the youth in New Haven. The youth over 18 especially, bear much of the responsibility. Most, if not all have learned societal ways from family groups and then the media, as you are doing now. Major learning takes place through ones own mistakes, trial and error.
Lets face it there will always be 10% that will never get the message. I can clearly see you are not one of those.

Posted by: Ashley Burney | June 27, 2007 8:33 AM

Well, as I said before, if you would like to discuss this issue any further, you have my e-mail address. However, if you did not see it, I'll post it again: ash_burney@yahoo.com

Posted by: Clifford W. Thornton, Jr. | June 27, 2007 11:00 AM

Those of you that blame our youth for their situation do not have a clue. We created the climate in which they live. Are we or are we not responsible for thier welfare? We cannot blame them for a culture we created.

Most of the youth come from an environment that is unrelenting--most are afraid for thier lives. Yet we continue to go after thier parents or gaurdians.

Lets fix the problem by recognizing that first and foremost, our children are trying to survive in an atmosphere in which they have no control only choices. And those choices as it stands now are very limited.

Posted by: bjfair | June 27, 2007 11:23 AM

Whalley, I'm extremely surprised that you are only 27. The contents of your response(parents, environment etc) has allowed me to see why you appear so bitter and unrelenting in your inability to emphathize with others who have not "walked your walk". Unfortunately every child does not have what you have....the ability to learn without example. The ability to relate and engage youth does not excuse their behavior nor make excuses for them and certainly does not send a message to accept failure. I am one who believes that constructive criticsm goes much further.