New Haven Independent

Posted by: on whalley | July 3, 2007 2:35 PM

Ding ding ding! We have a winner for most useless advice given by a police officer!

Much more worrysome to me isnt being assaulted while in my vehicle but being asaulted while on my bike. These wild wolf-pack kids have chased me, thrown rocks at me, jumped in front of me in an effort to get me to stop my bike. Just keep pedaling and swurve through traffic. I keep waiting for one of them to get crushed by a car but they havent yet.

Or I could stop my bike and when they assault me with force I could call it self defence and shoot them.

Which would the cops rather have? A kid cruched by a car, shot for being stupid, or simply tolerate the occasional beatings and let them roam free in search of meat?

Personally I chose to quit my part-time job that kept me downtown until 1AM and now I wont go out anywhere in New Haven after 8PM unless I absolutely have to. I have no desire to be attacked or be forced into a position of using lethal defensive force. Some residents dont have that luxury to roam the city selectively.

My advice would be to keep your doors locked, your windows up and keep a large wrench within arms reach. If youre walking around keep that iPod out of your ears for christs sake. And being on your cellphone doesnt help you either. Stay alert, stay ready to fight or run, and go over possible scenerios regulary in your head. Watch for shadows on the ground. Dont put your hands in your pockets (they like to grab you from behind so you cant use your arms), be noticable, be loud so anyone around knows you are there (if youre quiet youre an easier target.

Most imnportant for people around here is that they stop behaving like everyone is their friend and the crackhead on the corner just wants to give them a hug. The crackhead wants crack and you may be his ticket to it.

Posted by: Our Town | July 3, 2007 3:25 PM

That's not very much help, and certainly if someone, fearing for their life, drives over a kid on a bike, you know what's going to happen to the driver...guilty of aggravated assult! And the NHI will probably be first in line supporing the theory of how the driver over-reacted, and there will be a picture of the kid's mother swearing how good her kid is.

This is really a bad scenario. There will be no winners, especially if a driver does over-react, or uses the slighest provacation to injure someone intentionally.

Posted by: Sierra Di | July 3, 2007 4:36 PM

As a bicycle rider in the Elm City who has been teaching an eight year old girl safe and responsible biking on the street, I am disappointed at the evasive answer or lack thereof from the NHPD Brass.

One simple approach is: The NHPD must enforce the State Law provisions on Bicycles. Yes, they do exist and they are in the book!

First the book says that bicycle do not belong on the sidewalk, (they can be tolerated there), but foremost, they belong on the roadway.

Now, on the road they must ride within traffic; either on the bicycle lane, (whenever they exist), or on the roadway. They do so with the flow of traffic and sharing the road with courtesy and responsibility. The same applies to drivers!

Packs of bikes must not be tolerated: Not when they are attacking a driver, not when they are attacking pedestrians, not when they are just hanging out on the roadway in every direction, (generally against the one way traffic flow or on the wrong side), swirling in a disordered manner. That behavior is the precursor of the harassing behavior being discussed here.

Enforce these rules, proactively and you reduce the likelihood of some one getting trapped by a pack, (gang?), of kids on bicycles. Let us think at it: If there is no swirling and no violations of these basic rules there is very little opportunity for a driver to be trapped in this situation.

In order for the crime or harassment, restraining, kidnapping, (or whatever you may wish to call it), against a driver to happen, there have got to be at least a half dozen traffic infractions leading to the major offense.

We have learned that the little crimes are the building blocks of the major one! The next time anyone sees a pack of swirling or would be acrobatic riders on the roadway, breaking the rules of basic traffic flow, call it in!

I hope this help.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 3, 2007 6:06 PM

Oh my god I am sick!!!! I can not belive this city has come to this!!! This is a sad day!!! OMG!!! We can not drive the street in a car with out fearing kids on bikes!!!!!!! HELLO TOWN HALL ARE YOU HEARING US!! Are you seeing this. Do your stat's have this in them!! ACTIONS speak LOUDER than words. Stop worrying about what the dang press thinks and get rid of the drug dealer and gangs that are starting to take over OUR city!! STOP pretending it is not there because you are worried about what the mommy's and daddy's of the incoming Yale students think. And fix it!
NO MORE BANDAIDS!!

Posted by: Kris | July 3, 2007 7:24 PM

You cant do anything to the kids on bikes.If you hit them with your car than you are screwed and if you get out of your car and hit them with your hands youre still screwed.See what happened to the YNHH nurse whos car was being broken into by the 13 year old at 4am.Not only did she get arrested but she got fired too.I say get out of new haven while you still can.Why does anyone wanna live there anyway?? Yes some areas are nice but the taxes are high and so is the crime rate.Move to the burbs..lower taxes less crime and parents that can admit when their kids do something wrong and hold them accountable for it.Lets face it folks westville is not westville anymore,the cove isnt the cove as I knew it and beaver hills aint beaver hills

Posted by: WEBbloger 1 | July 3, 2007 7:27 PM

The Independent posed the question to Police Chief Cisco Ortiz at a recent press event. Ortiz handed the question off to his assistant chief of operations, Herman Badger (pictured), then left the room.

The chiefs body language answers the question.

JUST LEAVE..... by the nearest exit possible.
Remember bicycles do not have the right of way in the roadway according to the DMV. Bikes must respect autos in the road just as if they were an auto. If not, and bikes threathen your right of egres, give warning, and dive to the nearest police station and call the chief. Hopefully, your not dragging the bike dopers/thugs under your wheels.

Posted by: Taxed To Death | July 3, 2007 10:57 PM

LOL -- it's no wonder Billy White got away with his antics for all those years and DeStefano and Ortiz didn't know it. Be careful NHI, at the next NH BOA meeting, the mayor may well propose we spend another $130K to expand the study of the police department.

Posted by: FairHavenRes | July 3, 2007 11:39 PM

Classic Chief Ortiz, our overly defensive, statistic quoting, killer of community policing, public saftey guru!!!!

Number #1: Take the [kids'] bicycles. Big mouth moms and absent dads may take note if they have to lose some work time to go court. Make the parents responsible for the behavior of their [children] . Inconvenience them, then they will take responsibility.

Number #2: Get rid of our overly defensive, confused and besieged Chief Ortiz, he is a threat to the public safety of the city. It looks like it wont be the Billy White scandal that will get Ortiz, nor the rise in shootings (while over all crime is down), it will be kids on bicycles, terrorizing the neighborhood. They will be Cisco's undoing. Do we need to see more of this?

Number #3: Ask the State Police to come in.

Number#4: For kids and teens out after 10PM, round them up, turn the cases over to DCF for neglect. INCONVENIENCE THE PARENTS. INCONVENIENCE THE PARENTS. IT IS THE ONLY WAY THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE RESPONSIBLITY.

Posted by: Grand Ave Biz | July 4, 2007 12:36 AM

NHPD assistant chief of operations Herman Badger said:
"If you're under attack, under physical attack, then you should be concerned."

Oh, OK, I'll try to remember that.

Many thanks NHI for following through on this question. Unfortunately the (non)answer makes me want to leave the town that I was born in ASAP.

Posted by: KAM B | July 4, 2007 1:48 AM

Hey Sierra Di,
THE COPS CAN'T DO THEIR JOB BECAUSE OF THE PUBLIC! If you remember the cops were enforcing bike laws about a year ago in the Dwight - Kensington area. And what was the PUBLIC RESPONSE to this police solution:. . . . THEY complained the cops were profiling kids, taking their bikes, and were told to go do more important things!!! That was in part do to the Alderwoman in that district and the citizens. SO NOW WHAT HAPPENS? . . . . These crimes have escalated with packs of kids, riding bikes, robbing and terrorizing people. SO WHAT DO THE COPS DO? . . . . ANSWER: Just what you want them to do - NOTHING.

The problem in this city is this:
1. The public complains and thinks they know how to run the PD through politics. SO the PD in underminded by politicians.
2. The PD is not run by the Chief, it's run by politicians who cater to public outcry.
3. The PD is handcuffed by the Mayor, who is scared to confront the public about how violent these superpredators are and about the gang problem in NH. .. thats right there is a gang problem.

SOLUTION:
1. Appoint a Chief who is not concerned about political backlash. Appoint a Chief who tells it how it is, and gets the job done.
2. Get back to the REAL old days of the NHPD, when you were promoted by merrit, supervisors were respected by officers, and REAL community policing ruled the streets. Hard nosed ACCOUNTABLE aggresive cops got the job done, bad cops were fired and made an example of, and the respect simply fell into place.

Posted by: Self Defense | July 4, 2007 2:22 AM

Here's "one way to describe a one-sentence answer" for an incident, where (my) safety is priority one.

If I'm "under attack, under physical attack" (while driving my car), then you violent thieves on bikes who are blocking my escape are the ones who should be concerned because you have left me no other reasonable option to save myself and loved ones but to run your Sorry As_ over.

In this situation I WILL just get away at all costs so who can predict how bad off you'll be? You may be Mr. Soon-To-Be-Living-The-Rest-of-Your-Short-As_-Life-In-Agonizing-Pain or you may never walk again and linger in agony for the rest of your mother lovin' life but better you than me and my family.

I'll LIVE with what ever the consequences may be but you probably wont...and for what? A few bucks and maybe a cheap watch?

I'm sure you can understand my thinking, I mean if we blocked your mother's car in on all sides while my homie threw a brick through her window and started clawing at her then you'd want her to run one of us over to get away right? Right, and in that situation I would want her to run us over too.

REPEAT AFTER ME:
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
Run over others as you would have others run over you.
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
Run over others as you would have others run over you.
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
Run over others as you would have others run over you.
Peacebewitcho

Posted by: In the Hood | July 4, 2007 8:07 AM

Ditto to Cedarhill Resident..this attack is scary. Parents, Community Organizations, government along with police should be tackling this problem.

If we know these problems exist, what are the explicit interventions and prevention measures?!

Parents need to talk to their children, reminding them to avoid the peer pressure and gang mentality; gov't and community organizations must intervene with children whose parents cannot control them--for whatever reasons. Also government must have a strategy that we can understand and support.

And for goodness sake the police department has got to deliver to the community some better thinking on this topic.

Posted by: Noah | July 4, 2007 8:12 AM

My best guess: I think what the police are saying (by standing up and leaving the room) is that the question misses the point. Based on what I hear from our children and what the crime log says, the city is full of violent acts that happen every day. Some are within a family that go unreported (domestic abuse), some are related to drug and alcohol use and result in bad decisions, and so on.

If you get upset about a crime that happens because it involves the youth of a community (where violence is a everyday concern) acting upon someone else driving through - are you really concerned about that community or are you simply asking for someone to deal with the situation so that you may continue to either move to the suburbs or take the same standoff attitude and remain where you are? Unfortunately, I think we have a fairly deep-rooted culture of violence in New Haven, and a simple step by step guide to interacting with preteen thugs, is, well ridiculously oversimplified.

Posted by: eli | July 4, 2007 9:04 AM

where have i heard something like this before.... oh yeah

US Soldier: So Mr. Rumsfield, if i see a group of iraqis placing what appears to be a large IED by the road i should stay away right?

Rumsfield: I'm not saying that at all, each situation is different, they may just be setting up improvised soccer goals.

Soldier: So how can we be sure we're not going to get hurt.

Rumsfield: Listen you sissy, stop asking me these trivial questions.

idiocy is not something the federal government (and Dallas Cowboy fans) has a monopoly on. It seems whenever a difficult question is asked to the bigwigs in this administration (Ortiz, Mayo & DeStefano) they get defensive and cannot give a reasonable answer. How the Independent manage to not start screaming at Mr. Ortiz during this conversation is beyond me.

Posted by: Grand Ave Biz | July 4, 2007 12:17 PM

Dear Noah, You offer nothing but guilt trips, excuses and the same old lame and unfair marginalization/demonization tactics.

Please save your guilt trips, I have spent more than my fair share volunteering to help NH's underprivileged youth. Have you? How much time have you spent here on Grand Ave? (where violence is an everyday concern for EVERYONE). Do YOU regularly work here until late at night?

You (and NHPD answers to date) are missing the simple point that a NH taxpayer requested guidance to a simple and SPECIFIC, relevant and potentially life threatening situation not a step by step guide to broader interactions. If you knew what you were talking about and-or weren't spinning this issue you would know that these are not only preteens (not that some of them aren't quite capable of inflicting great or permanent bodily harm).

FYI, In this case, I can understand the behavior of, and have more empathy for, a younger person who commits a violent act than I can the non-answers from public servants to taxpayers.

I'm also not sure what is meant by:
"Obviously, staying safe should be priority one, and if that includes driving away, they should be driving away--they should be using anything they can to stay safe."

Please clarify, what we're supposed to be "using" to stay safe?

We originally asked for guidance partly because we sometimes don't think as clearly in the heat of the moment so perhaps the NHPD needs a little more time to prepare and offer more helpful advice to us so we are better prepared to Do The Right Thing in these two specific situations:

1) If your car is blocked in by humans (any age, on bikes or not) and your person is under physical attack, should you try to drive away even though you may be risking injury to the accomplice(s) or perpetrator(s) of the attack? If not, what is the recommended course of action?

2) If your car is blocked in by humans (any age, on bikes or not) and your person is not necessarily under actual physical attack but you believe your personal safety is being threatened (your car window is being smashed or the car door is being pried open or one of them is pointing a gun at you) should you try to drive away even though you may be risking injury to the accomplice(s) or perpetrator(s) of the attack? If not, what is the recommended course of action?

(Yes, yes we can all predict potential legal aftermath scenarios -- "John was a good person who just happened to be standing in front of that persons car when they were attacked by his associates," but as was said earlier, at least innocent citizen(s) will still be alive to watch a jury judge said litigious consequences.)

The answers don't have to be one-sentence long, the more information to better for all of us.

Posted by: Self Defense | July 4, 2007 3:45 PM

"1) If your car is blocked in by humans (any age, on bikes or not) and your person is under physical attack, should you try to drive away even though you may be risking injury to the accomplice(s) or perpetrator(s) of the attack? If not, what is the recommended course of action?
2) If your car is blocked in by humans (any age, on bikes or not) and your person is not necessarily under actual physical attack but you believe your personal safety is being threatened (your car window is being smashed or the car door is being pried open or one of them is pointing a gun at you) should you try to drive away even though you may be risking injury to the accomplice(s) or perpetrator(s) of the attack? If not, what is the recommended course of action?"

In answering those questions I hope they consider that even if you give robbers all you have they will sometimes shoot you to death anyway -- no matter what neighborhood, race, age etc:

"Assistant Chief Herman Badger said detectives are investigating the possibility that teens -- three of whom have just been arrested for shooting people to death during robberies -- may be involved in initiation rites as part of recruitment by out-of-town gangs. As of now, detectives have not reached a conclusion either way, he said."
http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2007/06/crime_down_but.php

Way to go Officer Stephan Torquati! ..."they arrested a 16-year-old boy and charged him with felony murder, according to police spokeswoman Bonnie Posick. The teen was being held on a $2 million bond. Police believe the incident started as a robbery but escalated into murder"
http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2007/06/cop_of_the_week_14.php

(same murder:)
"Robert Watts Spann of New Haven was charged with felony murder, robbery in the first degree, larceny in the second degree and weapons charges. He was being held on $2 million bond.
Ricardo Beamon, 28, was shot June 2 outside his store, Yuppy Boutique, and died from his injuries."
http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2007/06/20/arrest_made_in_new_haven_shooting/

"Rovira was on his way home from work about 4:30 p.m. when he was shot in the chest on George Street. He managed to run a few blocks to the Berger Apartments on Derby Avenue, where he collapsed near the entrance. He died at the hospital about six hours later." (a16-year-old NH youth fatally shot this 30-year-old father of three in the back during a street robbery for his gold chain)
http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2007/06/28/police_make_second_arrest_in_fatal_new_haven_shooting/

"When the clerk "didn't give him enough" cash, he proceeded to search for more. He told the clerk to get down on the ground. When he "didn't immediately" comply, the perp fired shots at the clerk, one of which apparently grazed his skull."
http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2007/03/medical_technic_1.php

"Dion Chiles, 22, of Chapel Street, was killed at Orchard Street and Edgewood Avenue May 29 in what police believe was an exchange of gunfire during a botched street robbery by Chiles. A second man, Joshua Johnson, was shot in the hip in the incident."

"Herbert Fields, 70, was shot to death on West Ivy Street in Newhallville on Aug. 1 in what police believe was an apparent street robbery. Bobby Johnson, 17, and a 14-year-old are awaiting trial."

"Manuel Santiago, 35, a Mexican immigrant in Fair Haven, was stabbed to death Oct. 19 behind 573 Ferry St. during a robbery attempt. Santiago fought back and was stabbed. Pedro Lespier Nunez, 28, was arrested and allegedly confessed to the killing."

"Kenneth Vincent, 35, was shot after leaving a friend's apartment at 45 Sheldon Terrace in Newhallville at 5:45 a.m. on Dec. 14. Police were looking a robbery as a possible motive."

"a 40-year-old city man was shot in the thigh at 12:17 a.m. at Grand Avenue and Maltby Place. He told police he was shot after a mugger demanded jewelry, and he didn't have any."
http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2006/11/rash_of_shootin.php

(NEW HAVEN - New Haven had 24 homicides in 2006 and 22 were committed with a gun"..."seemingly minor disputes end in lethal gunfire"..."In New Haven, however, the total was the highest since 1994."
http://www.cagved.org/inthenews_newhavenhomiciderate.htm

"The 15-year-old sat on the steps of his Fair Haven home Friday, his eyes red with worry about his father, who was pistol-whipped and shot while protecting his wife during an early-morning street robbery."
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-154676635.html

..."the July 12 murder of Domingo Rodriguez who was shot while sitting in his car on in the Kimberly Square section of the Hill neighborhood. Two of the three men actually shot Rodriguez as part of a robbery, according to New Haven State's Attorney Michael Dearington. Mabery was the main shooter, pumping nine bullets into Rodriguez, while a second man, known on the street as "Jerk," fired another bullet, Dearington said. A second man was shot, and survived."
http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2006/08/warrant_ready_b.php

"One student was shot in the right hand and three others were robbed at gunpoint in two separate incidents early Sunday morning, prompting Yale officials to warn students to take caution when off campus. Theodore DeLong DRA '07, a 27-year-old graduate student, was shot in the right hand during an attempted robbery near the intersection of Dwight and Elm streets.
The man started by asking for spare change," Delong said. "Then he pulled a gun out of his pants and shot it very fast and took off on his bike."
http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/14396?badlink=1

"Those of us who were at Yale last fall no doubt remember having our worst fears about New Haven seemingly confirmed: Before the first week of classes was over, a student was shot in the hand during a robbery and another group of students was mugged at gunpoint just off campus. These were only the first in a rash of crimes"...
http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/18151

Older news but not to the family of this Yale student:
"A 16-year-old boy was arrested Thursday night and ordered held on $1 million bond today in the shooting death of a Yale University student on campus in February, apparently during a robbery. The teen-ager, James (Duncan) Fleming, a 10th-grade student at New Haven Cooperative High School"...
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20615FD3D5E0C7B8DDDAC0894D9494D81&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fOrganizations%2fY%2fYale%20University%20

Etcetera, etcetera.

Posted by: Sierra Di | July 4, 2007 6:36 PM

Hi Kam B

I remember all very well, when this basic traffic laws enforcement effort was taking place, (I lived in the area)! The last time I checked the Chief of Police reports to the CAO, the Mayor, (both in consultation with the Board of Police Commissioners).

The community DID NOT respond with an outcry Kam B! The ones who did so ... are a drain to the city resources.

Let me explain:

(1) The parents of the very same kids who were on the bikes at all hours of the night while they conveniently evaded responsibility while doing whatever it is that they were doing in order NOT TO notice that "junior" was not sleeping in his / her room.
Am I being harsh? Not at all! I can give the NHPD the name of a parent of a Girl who got shot in the city, (poor child), while the mother was doing drug with her boyfriend who was using her "Section 8" apartment as a base for distribution and sale. The Girl being out at all hours of the night was just SO CONVENIENT! SO SO PRACTICAL... for Mama and Mama's drug pusher boyfriend!

(2) Show me an Alderman / Alderwoman who opposes measures that are basic, practical and legal under State Law and I will show you a hypocritical elected official who knows the social-cancer within the community, and would rather look the other way and save appearances: His / her own and his / her constituency.

Kam B, thanks for your comments. Let us keep trying. Let us not give up!

Posted by: HeavyD | July 5, 2007 8:59 PM

Does anyone else find it sad-funny that Ortiz responds to the bike question by stepping away from the podium? Ortiz evades responsibility by punting to his junior, who then dances around the question anyway. I've had few but universally good experiences with New Haven cops. The brass, on the other hand, seems lost in the sauce.

Others have already pointed it out -- roving bands of children on bikes indicate a lack of supervision. The PD can't solve the roots of this problem, but when there's a dozen kids on bikes at 10 pm as I observed on Lombard the other night (including one bocking traffic who couldn't have been more than 9 yrs old), that's a situation begging for direct intervention. The police on patrol simply need the direction and support of the department in order to step in. If the chief is simply going to talk away from the mic once their delinquent parents start whining, I can hardly blame the cops for focusing their efforts elsewhere.

Posted by: KAM B | July 5, 2007 10:52 PM

Good point Sierra Di,
No argument here. I agree with you. I think the biggest problem in this city is the way the City (its elected officials, the majority alderpersons, and the residents you spoke of) sit back and bash the police, the services, and everything else. When the PD snaps into action and gives out tickets for no insurance or misuse, the dregs of society come out and complain they got profiled or picked on because their car is not registered. When the cops go out and hit the streets with heavy bike law enforcement the same typ of thing happenes, until that Alderlady (Ms. Chun, I think), complains these 'kids' are just riding their bikes exercising. Again, I agree. The problem starts at the top in this city.
And I hope you keep trying. Good luck!