New Haven Independent

Posted by: ned | September 19, 2007 11:05 AM

"This is not about politics" LOL
"reaching out to these young men -- to teach them, to nurture them, and to show you love them," kind of weird and scary to hear a bunch of vigilante, religious fanatic homophobes talking about man-love, where was Larry Craig?

Posted by: In the Hood | September 19, 2007 5:23 PM

Oh please, Ned. If these folks don't engage the community who will?
g-

Posted by: westvillecharlie | September 19, 2007 5:52 PM

why aren't these good people out marching at night, that is when the bad things happen. seriously, the dealers and shooters they are supposed to be out scaring off are in deep REM sleep while they're out there calling on jesus to stop the violence.
seems either like a deliberit political move, or they just don't have any idea. eiter way, their words mean little at noon on a tueday. at least to me. i'm just sayin.

Posted by: Gary Holder-Winfield | September 19, 2007 6:13 PM

Ned:

Why the 'LOL' in reference to my statement? The question to me was how could I stand with a republican and the answer was and is that it isn't about politics. I understand full well that politics plays a role in why we get what we have here as it relates to neighborhood structure, educational opportunities and a myriad of other social items. I understand also that politics is why some of the people who were there showed up. For me though it is not a question of political (party) differences.

Posted by: kris | September 19, 2007 6:50 PM

Teach,nurture and show love?Isnt that the parents responsibility?Its not up to the city to find something for these kids to do in their spare time, it is the parents responsibility.Let the parents buy turntables and microphones.Lots of birth control is what new haven needs.... and with that you will have gun control.

Posted by: fairhavener | September 19, 2007 10:15 PM

"The first thing is for the community to stand up and to say 'enough is enough -- this is our turf, not yours.' And it's important that it is men and women of color standing up and saying it." (Perez)

While I totally stand behind the event and all it stands for...that was such a racist comment Perez. Why should it be men and women of color?

"Greer called for a "complete re-tooling" of the police department's administration. When asked about specific policy changes, Greer said he wants police to be accountable, responsive, and visible -- "not just at 'stop the violence' rallies.""

(Oh, and flour spills I might add.)

Seriously, Greer should oversee the entire police department. There should be a "Super-Chief" position in times of need and especially desperation. When enough citizens are appalled with the amount of violence and other crime we take it to a vote. I can see it now, some city official saying, "Sorry Ortiz, the citizens have found you incompetent and unfit to protect them. Meet Greer, he will be your new boss. Oh, don't cry. Don't worry, there is dignity in being a puppet. Kids love puppet shows. Just do what Greer says."

Posted by: on whalley | September 20, 2007 8:37 AM

"There should be a "Super-Chief" position in times of need and especially desperation. When enough citizens are appalled with the amount of violence and other crime we take it to a vote."

Oh yeah, I can just see the unions and the politicians loving that idea. You know, there used to be a time when the men of a community would just take care of things. Call it vigilantism or a coup or whatever you want to call it but the cause was always a lack of civility and security and the end result was always more civility and security.

Just saying is all.

Vote and petition and whine all you want. You, me and everyone else in New Haven do not matter one bit to the unions and politicians. Sure, we might get some lip service and announcing you're fed up and carrying a firearm might get you on the front page for a week but in the end the status quo remains and the unions and politicians go about doing exactly what theyve been doing for years and years. The only real change is that it will cost us more money and the population will gradually decrease.

As corrupt as the system is they cant kill or imprison us all. Come to think of it, remember that come payday when you all see that 35% of your check missing too. We all put up with way too much and some of us actually like it. We've chosen to be sheep in a pen rather than deer in a field and its so terribly sad.

On second thought, keep complaining and petitioning and pretending your vote makes a difference or that politicians actually care about you. You'll be happier that way. Happy like a fat hog in mud unaware he's tomorrows bacon.

Posted by: Gary Holder-Winfield | September 21, 2007 12:40 AM

On Whalley:

I am just curious, you say that we put up with way too much and at the same time seem to express here that voting is fruitless. While asserting the futility of voting you put forth a solution that "men of a community" "just take care of things" I know you were refering specifically to things such as neighborhood crime and such but I wonder if voting is a waste of time do you want men of a community to just take care of problems with government also? And, what form should this take?
Just asking is all.

Posted by: on whalley | September 21, 2007 8:53 AM

"And, what form should this take?"

I think the assumption that there has to be a government entity at all is the first mistake that civilization has made. Some snake oil salesman a while back promised to solve everyones problems if only they promised him money and control and look what it got us. A collection of corrupt elites more concerned with gaining control and power over the control and power they already possess rather than performing the most basic function of government, providing a safe environment to participate in capitalism.

From the crossing-guard to the alderman to the mayor to the FDA the ATF the DEA and the IRS absolutely none of it has to be there for us to function. None of these things have existed for an especially long period of time yet so many of us seem to think that civilized life simply did not exist before they inception of our great lord government. And no, life now is not all that different from life before this mess.

The vast majority of human beings understand basic levels of propriety and what is and what is not acceptable. Government and regulation from city hall to Congress has made it virtually impossible for people to suffer the consequences of bad choices, bad behavior and in doing so has set up road blocks in the faces of those who wish to recover from their mistakes and bad choices. It dictates to the many the needs of a few, it regulates financial gain and loss, it decides value and morality. Ultimately it decides the worth of the soul. All of these are against the natural order of things and are direct affronts to liberty.

What form would this all take? Not a form unfamiliar to free men.

Posted by: Gary Holder-Winfield | September 21, 2007 10:54 AM

On Whalley:

I can't think of too many instances where there is not some form of government. Who then are these "free men" to which you refer (if government means that men aren't free as I assume you mean)? With all due respect I don't think you really answered my question.

Posted by: Gary Holder-Winfield | September 21, 2007 10:55 AM

On Whalley:

I can't think of too many instances where there is not some form of government. Who then are these "free men" to which you refer (if government means that men aren't free as I assume you mean)? With all due respect I don't think you really answered my question.

Posted by: Edward_H | September 21, 2007 11:39 AM

fairhavener

While I totally stand behind the event and all it stands for...that was such a racist comment Perez. Why should it be men and women of color?

Sometimes because having "men and women of color" reach out to the children of "men and women of color" is the easiest way to convince them to turn their lives around. If a kid opens up to someone from his own background more readily does that make the kid a racist too?

Just because a comment contains a mention of race does not make said comment or commenter a racist.

Posted by: on whalley | September 21, 2007 11:53 AM

Sure it answers the question. If we each took care of our families, our properties, our businesses, our infrastructure, there would be no government or governing body to deal with. There would be business and labor and that is all. Capitalism and competition make room for self regulation and opportunity to fail and succeed.

Free men own their land. That is something we can never do in the current system. Not one of us really owns our land save a few remaining allodial properties in Texas but current law prevents their transfer. Free men have no tax burden. Free men have no right to expect anyone besides themselves to be responsible for their well being.

I'll agree that sooner or later virtually every group of people from five to five million has organized a governmental structure but virtually all is not all and these structures are set up through coercion, fanciful promises and eventually firepower and threats of imprisonment.

If you want to know exactly and specifically what should be done once the communities have decided to bypass the ineffective police force and clean their own neighborhoods I suppose a simple decision to ignore the governing body would be preferable. The trouble with that is so many would wish to ignore the aspects they do not like but still participate in the aspects they do like. Obviously that cant happen. It all must be ignored. The buses have to stop being used, the taxes have to go unpaid, the police have to stop being called, switch to as many private sector services as possible and cut ourselves off from those services with no private sector alternative and facilitate the growth of a private sector alternative or simply do without.

If I could have any one of these things it would be the freedom to truly own my property. No more permits, zoning restrictions, taxes or the tolerating of trespass. I would want the allodial title back to my car and I would want no more taxation or registration or regulation on that. Very simple things. As it is the only reason a man must work for a living is to pay taxes. Food and water and shelter can all be had off of privately owned property or within interpersonal trade but as long as the taxation exists we are forced to seek employment, subsequently forced to pay even more taxes (income tax) and forced to comply with a system that by all rights does not need to exist under threat of death or imprisonment.

That hardly seems like freedom to me. It's feudalism by a different name. We just sharecrop with our labor or pay homage to the Lords by way of taxation. To top it all off, extra participation in free market practices results in more homage to be paid and further regulations.

Frankly, it's the opposite of every notion I have ever had about America. Granted, there is nowhere else to go because every inhabitable inch of land on this globe is covered by some nations guns or prisons and if I had a choice of any nation to live in I would choose this one but if I had the option to take my land and opt out altogether I would.

Other than that I guess I dont understand the question you've asked.

Posted by: outcast | September 21, 2007 10:15 PM

I just want to know how come the Black Leaders couldn't get one of those 100 men of color to run for the Mayor!

It was told to all of the men to get 5 men, if you can get 5 men of color to support one man of color to run for Mayor of New Haven.

It's time to come out of the fields and stand strong so that these young men of color can see a positive role model.

All of the men of color that is standing behind the Mayor really need to think about who is your Master!

Men of Color Stand Up!