New Haven Independent

Posted by: on whalley | October 3, 2007 9:04 AM

"Ortiz said there are too many illegal guns and too little consequences for illegal gun possession. He expressed frustration at not having any control over the issuing of gun permits."

I'm a bit confused by this. How would Ortiz having greater personal control of the issuing of legal permits to law abiding citizens create greater consequences for illegal gun possession? Are the criminals rushing to get permits because it's so easy? Are they picking up guns at the local shop? Well, if they were they wouldn't be carrying illegal firearms now would they?

I really like knowing that New Haven is the great destination for so many released criminals, thanks to halfway houses, clinics and other bleeding-heart help-those-who-don't-want-it programs are working so hard to attract. Not only does it reaffirm for me that New Haven is destined to kill itself but it feels good to have DeStefano himself tell me I've been right all along. No, more of these programs will not help. They don't want help. Being an in and out of jail thug gives some meaning to their pointless lives. It justifies their existence to make life miserable for the rest of us. Our bending over backwards to hug them just makes us all look that much weaker and even more deserving of their brutish criminal attacks. It's like the people who dream up these programs have never encountered crime or criminals in a non-clinical setting. Life isn't like an interview through one way glass or a mediated, prescription drug defused hour long session on a couch.

Plenty of people are raised in less than ideal situations and by their own skill and will rise above and out without the helpful hand of government intervention or liberal academia. So why would you think that government and liberal academia are needed for others to rise up and out? Some people are human and some are animals it IS as simple as that. Nothing will change them unless they decide to change themselves. I'm sorry if this makes baby Jesus or some social worker cry but that's the truth.

And no, Gov. Rell, keeping them in prison longer wont help. It will just extend the cycle of crime, no crime, repeat crime, a bit longer. They need to be shipped off to some labor camp in the Arizona desert for the rest of their days.

We got 919 applicants this year four hundred something last year? Its funny the number of applicants should double after the department cuts its standards by roughly half.

50% rise in shootings? 139 so far. Last year this time wasn't it close to 70 something? That seems closer to a 100% increase to me though I could be wrong on that.

Posted by: New Haven Tea Party | October 3, 2007 9:25 AM

It's really refreshing to know that you can get shot relatively easily in New Haven...but at least you won't die.

And I'm glad this is yet another problem that DeStefano lays at the feet of "the state." I was worried that maybe he or the Cisco Kid weren't doing their jobs or caring enough. Of course, it has nothing to do with DeStefano policies, or the lack of police presence or the lack of community policing. In the wake of all the shootings this summer, the rise of the Westville Defense Patrol and other markers through the months, it's nice City Hall is finally getting around to putting more cops on the street. That would be rapid response for them, I guess. Perhaps somebody should have spread a little cooking flour around -they really roll on something like that.

Posted by: fairhavener | October 3, 2007 10:36 AM

How could it be that "shootings are running 50 percent above last year's numbers" after "the department's taking182 unregistered guns off the streets"? Oh, I get it; those were the guns that no one was using. I expect that there are 182 arrest records that we can match up to those guns. Let's see them.

And Ortiz is "confident" that "this has prevented even more violence"? Yeah, good job Genius, you prevented the shootings from reaching 100 percent above last year's numbers. You must be putting in overtime (getting those 182 guns off the street). Otherwise, how on earth could you justify $4.7 million (soon $5.3 million) in overtime? How about just competently "serving and protecting" in regulartime? Oh, that's right, because then all those poor cops wouldn't be able to live in the suburbs.

Ortiz, I didn't see it at first, but your vision for gun control is also Genius:

"Ortiz said there are too many illegal guns and too little consequences for illegal gun possession. He expressed frustration at not having any control over the issuing of gun permits."

I get it now; you want the authority to give out gun permits so everyone carrying an illegal gun can come in and make it legal. That is Brilliant. Then next year's numbers will look phenomenal. Or, you're a complete moron who confuses the problems caused by guns that are permitted vs the illegal guns.

Also of note, is DeStefano's brilliant observation (or was it a question): "is this is a huge problem for communities of color: 96 percent of shooting [victims] and 100 percent of the 11 homicide victims so far this year are black or Latino[?]" I don't know John, why don't you ask them? (BTW, I am telling my Puerto Rican neighbor/friend that you called him a person "of color".

And if, as DeStefano says, "a high percentage of the offenders and victims are known to police because they have criminal records", why it is that only a few (or is it one?) of these shooting cases were solved. I think you're lying Johnny.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | October 3, 2007 10:56 AM

Hey Icewein If You Are Out There, 139 Shootimgs
In New Haven Still Think That New Haven Is Safe To Live In Than Harlem!!! As Soon As I Can Get A Sucker I Mean Buyer For My House I Will Be Gone In A Heart Beat!!!

Posted by: dana b | October 3, 2007 11:59 AM

What I notice is a complete absence of a breakdown of crime trends by neighborhood. What good is it to me if crime is down in Westville where I only rarely shop, for example, but up in my section of Fair Haven where I walk, shop, go to the park, etc.?

I don't know the statistics for various neighborhoods, so the above is just a hypothetical example.

My point is that I am still 0 for 5 in pleading here in the NHI for the police to come with statistics, plans, questions, etc. to the community in Fair Haven that appears to be experiencing a large increase in street muggings. I and my neighbors feel ignored and abandoned by the police and the mayor. City hall and the police communicating with us would be a first step toward solving the apparent rise in crime here.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | October 3, 2007 1:01 PM

THREEFIFTHS ya still gotta love this city even with all the down falls.

dana b
Do you go to your block watch or management meeting? My understanding is that the last one the police in so many words said that community policeing was alive and well in fair haven, my understanding is that 2 of the alders at the meeting agreed? Now I know darn well that is not true, but at these meetings they give a basic run down of what the crime stat's for your area are for the past month.

Now my only problem with that (as far as I see in my area) is that....

most people have stopped calling the police and those non call complaints are not in the stat's.

The more crime problemed areas have taken alot the smaller crimes as something they now have to police themselves and that is not in the stat's.
Those stat's don't show alot of the calls that police take hours to get to.

The areas of the city that have better police response do call and all those call are in the stat's because they get an officer in a reasonable amount of time. So they are not forced to police there areas them selves. They have not given up calling the police all together.

Now why does any of this matter...because the polices BIG EXCUSE (yes excuse) for not getting more help into those area's is because they say that there where not alot of calls so your area does not get help! RIGHT why are there not alot of calls in the first place...crappy operators and no response when we do call!!

So my suggestion is when people call an officer go there and not 5 hours later at 4 in the morning!

ohhh I get so mad.

Posted by: fairhavener | October 3, 2007 1:28 PM

On Whalley, I see I am not the only one to notice Ortiz's ridiculous gun permit comment.

Regarding what you said, "Being an in and out of jail thug gives some meaning to their pointless lives. It justifies their existence to make life miserable for the rest of us." That is just part of it. I know for a fact that some of these "people" purposely get put away for the winter and come out in the summer. That is the "help-me" program that they want. It's cold in the winter.

And it shouldn't be "bleeding-heart help-those-who-don't-want-it" programs, but "bleeding-heart help-those-who-don't-want-it-and especially-don't-want-it-where-they-live" programs.

cedarhillresident - just skip the 946-6316 call and call 911. That is what I have been doing. If you want to take it a step further, for quick response, tell them there is a domestic dispute in front of whatever address. The cops always show up quick for those calls - I guess they love the drama.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | October 3, 2007 2:06 PM

Fair Havener,
I had a domestic (or a weird man in the middle of the street) this weekend at 1am on my street me and another neighbor called, no one showed up. They called me about 2 hours later and asked if it was still going on!! What a joke.
I have in some desperation pretended to be a helpless yale student living in a yucky area. That I save for the really bad ones. I do get a quicker response. But then they pull up to find a middle aged women. oh well...
My district manager is a great cop but she can not do it all. And the cops that handle my area are the ones from Newhallville
They literally have to drive across town. I do not understand why we are not part of that policing district, the fair haven policing district would make alot more sense, but I guess reason is not part of how the police dept is managed. Totally idiotic!

Posted by: Stephen H | October 3, 2007 2:20 PM

The New Haven Police are just a sick sad JOKE!!

I have a scanner and it really gives a true picture of police response times and priority.

Chinese Take Out Armed Robbery- response time 30 minutes! (heard it over scanner)

House break-in (Westville) 8 hour response time to get a police report made. (heard it over scanner)

Noise complaint/suspicious person- Odds of winning lottery better than getting a police response.

This s**tbag cheif keeps quoting statistics. Chances are you will become a statistic with Ortiz in charge!

Mayor "Juan" needs to stop pulling the little string sticking out of Ortiz's back that makes him say "Statistics show that crime is down!"

Posted by: fairhavener | October 3, 2007 2:38 PM

Sorry, I meant domestic dispute where physical violence and yelling is involved. A weird man in the middle of the street doesn't have the required drama.

Posted by: dana b | October 3, 2007 4:35 PM

Cedarhill Resident,

You are right about the need to attend block watch and management meetings. I suppose that is the next step for me and my neighbors.

I was hoping, quixotically I suppose, for some sort of response by the New Haven Police or the Mayor's office to the many suggestions offered here by many commenters. You know, making community responsiveness a real policy and doing their jobs instead of making all of us pour yet more time into policing.

I think I'd rather join a defense patrol (probably non-armed) than attend another meeting and get mired in fine words and procedural matters.

But I must confess to a certain weariness, a feeling that I hope will pass if I simply acknowledge its existence. Tired of the litter, the petty and serious crime, the poor manners of many residents in New Haven, I am looking a bit wistfully at life in a picturesque town like Guilford where the biggest debate might be how extensive to make the library addition.

I will try to reconnect with that love of city life. But I must say that for me the putative "diversity" of New Haven looks more and more like the over-burnished shine on a poverty apple.

Posted by: charlie | October 3, 2007 5:37 PM

One solution is to give all violent criminals a mandatory MINIMUM sentence of 40 years with no parole - regardless of the severity of the crime or the criminal's age. If a kid hits you, he should be locked up until he is 50 years old.

That would stop some of the crime.

Much of the most violent stuff is just drug dealers shooting each other, which will just continue until the U.S. makes drugs legal. If they are carrying an illegal gun, though, they should be locked up, too. There should be stop and frisk searches all across the city.

Posted by: citysavior | October 3, 2007 6:06 PM

let's get this straight the mayor's office is returning officers who have been filling in for detectives. Ok what happens to the burglary, robbery,sexual assaults etc. cases that the officers were working on?? who is going to address the victims?? the mayor!!! why not just take the detectives and officers out and have all of them patrol the streets. The mid management issue was created under john daniels watch but the mayor john let it continue to this point. shame on city hall. Lets try and support the officers regardless of your agenda. the police officer work hard it's not right to blame them for the city mismanagement.

Posted by: Bill Saunders | October 3, 2007 7:55 PM

If you want to stop the shootings, you have to catch the shooters first! How come no mention of the departments abysmal arrest record in this regard?
I'd take 139 arrests over 182 guns off the street any day.

Posted by: Andrew Yim | October 3, 2007 8:37 PM

"And it shouldn't be "bleeding-heart help-those-who-don't-want-it" programs, but "bleeding-heart help-those-who-don't-want-it-and especially-don't-want-it-where-they-live" programs"

Also known as, in previous years and decades, as human decency and compassion, an understanding that justice must be fair but not cruel, and that the hope for redemption lends grace and strength to our society.

There's nothing academic or bleeding heart about that.

Posted by: Stephen H | October 3, 2007 11:49 PM

Joe Arpaio would make a great replacement for Ortiz. I bet we will see some dramatic results!

Heck, I may even write his name in for Mayor.

Posted by: on whalley | October 4, 2007 11:42 AM

"Also known as, in previous years and decades, as human decency and compassion, an understanding that justice must be fair but not cruel, and that the hope for redemption lends grace and strength to our society."

See, this is what I'm talking about. There is no ceiling on that. No cap. No end. How far are you willing to go? How many times do you have to be assaulted, confronted, robbed, spit on, ignored by police? How many times is too many for some addict to be in and out of rehab on your dollar? A dozen, two dozen, every month for life? How long should a person be supported before expecting them to get back on their feet? Six months, a year, 5 years, 60 years?

You keep thinking this way and you become a doormat for scoundrels and scumbags. Unless, of course, you can afford some nice gated community somewhere and can insulate yourself from reality. Then all of your welfare and rehabilitation expenses can be considered charity to ease the burden of whatever guilt or insecurities you have.

Whether you believe it or not there is a clear line that gets crossed when people are no longer just down and out but are actively choosing to be a blight on society. If you want to keep suffering the social and financial cost they charge by all means do it but don't force me to do it. I have more sense than to invest in a failing enterprise even if it makes social workers or Jesus smile.

Posted by: Cait Sith | October 4, 2007 11:53 PM

total lies. I know for a fact he purposely sits on legitimate permit applications in an effort to make sure no one gets a handgun permit.

Does he expect us to believe felons apply for permits and he can't do anything to stop it?

He certainly does. Most permits have to be heard by the State after a 2 year wait list.

I wish someone would compel him to tell the truth.

He's your boy Smuts. DO SOMETHING!

I hope Julie Raymond's accustations are right and he is removed.

SINNER!

Posted by: FAIRHAVEN DAVE | October 6, 2007 11:43 AM

Why are you saying Ortiz doesn't hand out permits? I got my pistol permit.

It took two full days of classes, paperwork, interviews, IDCard photos, 90 miles of driving, fingerprinting, and around $500 later (if you count fees PLUS the hours I had to miss work due to inane state office hours), I finally got the rights guaranteed to me by the second amendment. It also took several phone calls to the state permit review board as the NHPD was ignoring my request and ignoring mandatory due dates.

Meanwhile, people who are actually shooting each other are just buying guns without permits from Joe Shmoe on the corner and tossing them onto the playground when they are done with them.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | October 7, 2007 5:16 PM

on whalley

HERE HERE so well put!! I may not agree with the whole statement above, but I do agree with the idea of it. The fact is how tired do people have to get before they do more than complain! How tired do we have to get before we unite as one city and revolt against the people that seem to not care about the working mans plight with having to foot the bill for all its noble causes?? I support a certain amount of do gooder programs but the fact is that our programs are putting us in the tanker (at least they are one of the reasons) There has to be some kind of a limit before we show some tough love and relize that some can not be fixed.
I would love to see this money redirect into protecting the citizens of the city.
I would love to see a comprehensive way of policing it now not in a year.

Suggestion to Ortiz:

Divide up the police you have and make the policing districts smaller. You have, what 10 policing districts at this time, make it 15 or even more. So that the police are able to concentrate more. Get GPS on those cops! Find out what they are doing with there time! I am sure all of can give a for instance on miss use of tax payers time. Being an officer of the law does not make you above it. This is your job. You swear to serve and protect...not feel that dealing with petty crime is beneath you!! You have police taken out of areas like mine, why??? Should you not be fixing areas like mine?? We realize that some view , some areas as dumping grounds for the crime and if you can contain it in those areas that is the best you can do attitude!! Which I have heard said, not in those words. That is reactive not PROACTIVE! There is a better way!! find it now, with what you have! I stretch my budget every week to pay the higher taxes and make it work, it is time for the police and other departments of the city to do the same. CREATIVE THINKING!! PROACTIVE thinking!!