New Haven Independent

Posted by: Bruce | December 13, 2007 9:17 AM

As a sailboat owner who used to keep his boat in the West Haven lot, I fully sympathize with Mr. Izzo. He is obviously trying to do the right thing but getting vague and misleading direction.

We desperately need more space to store boats in New Haven. New Haven is historically a port city and has marine activity has been a big part of life here for hundreds of years. This is a part of history we should be bending over backwards to preserve. One of the big draws of a city like New Haven is access to wonderful sailing on the Long Island Sound. Let that slip away and it's just another reason for people to live in the surrounding towns.

I have to ask: what did the boatyards look like in the era that this commission is trying to preserve? Somehow I doubt that the boatyard keepers during the industrial revolution would have erected and removed two separate fences to appease neighbors' aesthetic whims.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | December 13, 2007 9:43 AM

Bruce I must agree..
This man did the fence in a plain color..and made it removable. Ok so now he can put up a non removable fence and ruin the summer view for all those who are complaining!! be careful what you wish for people you may be hurting yourself! And yes we should be working with marina owners to pull more places like this into the city! Not scaring them away.

Posted by: DEZ | December 13, 2007 11:16 AM

I feel for all involved here. When owning property in a local historic district, one must abide by the rules of the HC. The idea of "historically appropriate" is difficult to define as many of these neighborhoods have morphed over the years. Our Fair Haven oyster house has many Greek Revival elements, yet is not a classic Greek Revival and has been altered by the "style du jour" as architectural nuances have changed through time. Which style is "most appropriate"? What also amazes me is that our Quinnipiac River Local Historic District sports a company which fronts by the name "Gateway Terminals" or "Crosby Realty", or something like that, who put up an inapropriate chain link fence under cover of darkness. The HC came down on them and then what? The fence remains. Time marches on and nothing is rectified. Where are the teeth behind the Historic Commission? I feel for Joe Q Public who tries to do the right thing, while politically connected folks just smile and nod to the commission. Does the HC only bite in City Point and Wooster Square? I'd really like to see some semblance of action behind the commission in ALL local historic districts.

Posted by: visitor | December 13, 2007 11:56 AM

To Cedar Hill Resident-
Izzo cannot put up a year round, non-removable fence, and the article does not say that he can. The HDC rules do not chase business away at all. They do, however, stipulate conditions for aesthetic integrity and historical preservation; both of which tend to create BETTER neighborhoods. And this is a neighborhood, not a business district. The people who live here have to abide by certain rules and any businesses should do so as well.There are plenty of areas of coast that are not historic districts where almost anything goes. Historic districts are wonderful for cities!

Posted by: nfjanette | December 13, 2007 1:44 PM

As a previous comment notes, it seems the accurate historical preservation of most of New Haven's shoreline/riverside areas would include, rather than exclude, such businesses. John Izzo has raised some important points about the possible failure of the HDC to communicate the rules to existing land owners covered in that area. He seems like someone trying to both be responsible to his business as well as the concerns of the HDC and neighborhood. I hope a reasonable compromise can be found.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | December 13, 2007 2:14 PM

visitor
the comment was a bit of a sarcastic one. I have friends that live over there. And I to love that area. And as a person fighting similar things in my community I totally understand the community's plight. It just seemed to me that this man, seems to love the area to and took some thought into how he did the fence, with the information he was given.

Posted by: Who Cares | December 13, 2007 3:09 PM

This socialist government of ours which continues its encroachment upon our freedoms has the nerve to stifle personal property rights with the egregious application of what is, in any case, a misnomer.

There is nothing "historical" about City Point. The Liberty Bell and its environs would qualify. But a tawdry former fisherman's wharf, which some might think quaint, has none of the uniqueness and value that genuine historicity requires.

Let the guy run his business and keep your nose out of if, City Hall!

Posted by: Dominic Giulietti | December 13, 2007 11:07 PM

As a resident of the City Point Historic District I endorse and appreciate the work and the efforts of the Historical Commission..With the exception of thier position on replacement windows I believe they have helped enhance the value of properties in the area...As a realtor manager monitoring ads on properties listed for sale I had often found prospective buyers asking "What side of the highway are we talking about?"
I opposed Mr Izzo's petion but as I stated at the hearing and now wish to repeat I do believe him when he said he had asked for guidance and was not given the correct information and that it was not his intention to erect something unsightly or illegal..He allayed my fears that a multi story boat storage, which would not be in keeping with a turn of the century structure will be built.

Posted by: Bruce | December 14, 2007 9:33 AM

So how about giving them a break for this winter while the commission figures out what the standard is for fences? They can't just throw the boats back in the water and they have a responsibility to keep them secure.

Posted by: Robert W. Grzywacz | December 15, 2007 10:03 AM

As retiring Chairman of the Historic District Commission, I thought a couple of clarifications to the multiple postings here would be appropriate (the interest they show in preservation issues is greatly appreciated).

First, most definately City Point is a historic area noted for, among other things, its substantially intact streets of houses ranging from the second quarter of the 19th c to around 1900. It is representative of what particularly characterizes New Haven - residential working class and middle class housing. City Point is listed on the National Register of Historic Places, one of 19 districts within our city so designated.

Considering history as a topic just concerned with "great men" and distant times, is limiting definition. Scholars today realize that history also includes the study of the ordinary man - those that built the word we have inherited and of which we are the custodians. If one wanted to learn somthing of the history of New Haven's neighborhoods and architecture, a good start would be either Elizabeth Mills Brown's book "New have, A Guide" or Colin Caplan's similar book just released. Either one can be read in small bites between blogs, and needent be too mentally onerous.

Second, the local historic districts, City Point, Wooster Square, and Quinnipiac, are far from City Hall medling in other peoples' business. Local Historic districts are set up by property owners specifically for the preservation of thier neighborhoods. They are completely voluntary and are locally initiated and locally approved. It takes a 2/3rds vote of neighborhood propery owners to form such a district. Mr. Izzo had that opportuitiy as did all of his neighbors.

To put in perspective how large a 2/3rds vote is, consider that NO president has ever recieved a 2/3rd popular vote, and that even unopposed politial cadidates in this city barely exceed it. If I remember correctly, the City Point district was approved with about 90% of the vote - clearly, it was the desire of the neighborhood to preserve its character.

This is what the Historic District Commission - citizen volunteers, in the best American tradition - try to do.

Posted by: robn | December 17, 2007 1:30 PM

Robert Grzywacz,

Does the city have a map of designated districts and rules posted anywhere on their website?

Posted by: cedarhillresident | December 17, 2007 1:34 PM

Robert I just got Colin Caplan's book at Barnes and Noble this weekend! Great book! (he even included Cedar Hill!) Great Guide book of the city!

Posted by: Mitch Berger | December 20, 2007 9:00 AM

After reviewing the recent NH Independent article and the comments it appears that the real problem is that neither the Historic Commission nor Mr. Izzo have any applicable standards or guidelines regarding what type of fence to erect. There is no doubt that Mr. Izzo has a right to store boats on his property since it is properly zoned for this use and he has received and is abiding by the special permit issued by the City Plan Commission. In addition since those boats have been entrusted to him for storage and the boat owners have paid for this service Mr. Izzo has the legal obligation to protect the property of his customers. That said, given the fact that no standards exist regarding the type of fence to erect Mr. Izzo cannot be faulted for his frustration with the current situation. Now there is no doubt that the members of the Historic Commission are acting in good faith as is Mr. Izzo. However it is difficult for me and I would expect for any other reasonable person to understand how the Historic Commission members can be expected to enforce standards via the approval process when in fact no standards exist. Perhaps the Commission should seek the guidance of city officials in determining how they are going to meaningfully assess what Mr. Izzo presents to them since they have no guidelines with which to evaluate his proposal. Although it can't be doubted that Mr. Izzo wants to satisfy the Historic Commission how can he be expected to know how to do so given the current state of affairs?

Posted by: David Condon | December 20, 2007 1:16 PM

As an individual who keeps his boat at Oyster Point Marina I would like to point out that the Historic Commission has much more to worry about than whether John Izzo puts up a fence. The entire area of City Point should keep to its historic roots without a doubt. As a former owner of a historically registered home in Bristol, CT I endorse the concept of maintaining its historical roots. What is at issue here is that the Historical Commission did not have and does not now have standard guidelines for the erection of fences in the area. Mr. Izzo asked for help and guidance and did not receive it. He proceeded on the best information he had and now finds himself mired in controversy. The fault here lies plane and simple with the Historical Commission if you want to preseve and protect you should have clearly defined standards that people can access and that will avoid exactly the kind of controvery that now exists. Mr. Izzo was one trying to protect his property and that of his customers, he was also trying to safeguard the young people who visit the area. He should not be condemed he should be commended. The historical principles upon which this country was built allowed for people to protect themselves, their families, and their property. If the Historic Commission wants to preserve history lets start with the basic rights of a property owner that is expressed in the bill of right.