New Haven Independent

Posted by: East Rock | December 3, 2007 8:48 AM

Wow some people just have nothing better to worry about. Who says the "offender" is just not waiting for their landscape company to come pickup the leaves?

Posted by: Tim Kane | December 3, 2007 9:07 AM

I noted the same problem on Saturday in Westville. Four-foot-high piles of leaves in the street on Chapel. Dangerous for a couple of reasons: 1)Visibility - someone can walk or drive out from behind one of those piles of leaves, and the Indy 500-like speeders on Chapel can't stop in time. 2. I never met a kid yet who didn't want to jump in a pile of leaves. On the street, this is especially dangerous as mischievous motorists might decide to drive right through the pile and scatter the leaves. Are the landscaping companies - who do such a bang-up job of clearing leaves - aware of the ordinances prohibiting the piling of leaves at curbside?

Posted by: Bruce | December 3, 2007 9:16 AM

Roland is right. A simple knock on the door and a "Howdy-do, neighbor" would probably get the job done or at least prevent this problem in the future.

Posted by: James | December 3, 2007 9:51 AM

Funny, I called Public Works for the same issue and was directed to LCI. LCI tried to send me back to Public Works, as they should have. Sounds like Public Works is passing the buck. Municipal Code 120-13:

(p) Penalties. The director of the department of public works or his/her designee shall enforce the provisions of this section... [A]ny person, firm or corporation that violates this section... shall be fined up to the maximum amount authorized by state statutes or this Code.

And for the record, Bruce, my neighbor would respond to a friendly "Howdy-do, neighbor" with a punch in the face. Sometime it's better to go through proper channels.

Posted by: And One More Thing | December 3, 2007 10:31 AM

The real problem with these leaves is that they get wet and become one thick mass which then freezes and becomes rock hard. The city then cannot remove them because with the leaves they are impervious to salt or a snow plow. So they stand as rock hard mountains of various sizes until Spring comes.

Posted by: nfjanette | December 3, 2007 11:26 AM

I regularly see landscaping workers blowing leaves off the customer's property into the street. It is, sadly, a perfect example of a pervasive attitude in society that as long as you move the "trash" from your property, you no longer have any responsibility for it.

Posted by: pedrj | December 3, 2007 11:32 AM

Actually, it is very likely that the contractors simply don't know new haven's leaf laws. In towns like north haven, you are SUPPOSED TO blow your leaves into the street, and then the town comes and vacuums them up.

I'm still personally waiting for new haven to come and pick up my bagged leaves from last week. Public works never came to my street on the schedule THEY sent and now I have 17 leaf bags sitting on my street still awaiting pickup! It's a shame that they'll likely go in with the trash tomorrow instead of leaf pickup where they should have gone.

Posted by: JZ | December 3, 2007 12:01 PM

I totally agree that it's dangerous, not to mention rude, to blow leaves into the street (making them someone elses problem).

Either bag them or ask your landscaping company to remove them immediately.

Posted by: robn | December 3, 2007 12:29 PM

I'm sure that there are lazy people who would blow or rake leaves into the street rather than bag them, but there are also good people who may just be confused and without mischevious intent. The directions given by public works (link below) are unclear, and suggest that street sweepers will pick up unbagged leaves. I was confusded by these directions but decided to err on the side of caution and bag all leaves raked on my property. I did not rake up leaves which fell from trees into the street and I believe that this is the city's responsibility. Let me text-shout out the salient points here...

IT WOULD BE NICE IF CITY DIRECTIONS WERE CLEARER AND IF THEY FINED LEAF SCOFFLAWS.

IT WOULD BE NICE IF PEOPLE SHOWED SOME ETIQUETTE AND RAKED AND BAGGED OCCASIONALLY.

http://www.cityofnewhaven.com/PublicWorks/WhatsNew.asp

Posted by: cedarhillresident | December 3, 2007 12:32 PM

Hmmm but I do think that some town request it be done that way. Then a city truck comes and sucks it up with a big vacuum. The landscaper is at fault for not knowing the city reg's. But I do think most times a knock on the door works ....but I must agree with James in the fact that some people just don't respond so nicely.

Posted by: pdh | December 3, 2007 12:41 PM

The leaves have been in the street for 3 weeks. They were originally blown all over the street and into the Canner/St Ronan intersection -- which is intensively used by students from Hooker, Foote, and Yale. Later, after intervention by the alderman, Alfreda Edwards, they were piled along the curb. Yesterday, they were finally moved out of the street and back on to the homeowner's property.

The offender, a long-time resident, knew very well what he was doing -- and that it was illegal. A friendly "howdy" definitely would not have changed his mind.

With the exception of the alderman, the city has been as unhelpful as possible about this.

We are grateful for the Independent's help with this. Maybe the city can be persuaded to enforce its own ordinances with a little help from the press!

Posted by: Fairhaven Dave | December 3, 2007 1:03 PM

On my side of town the lack of leaf pile bagging
clogs drain systems, the failure of which, flood the streets to the extent that driving becomes dangerous.

Posted by: robn | December 3, 2007 1:37 PM

As a motorcyclist, I can verify that wet leaves are deadly...more slippery than ice.

The St Ronan scofflaw hould be dealt with in a most abrupt and cruel manner, ina scale befitting his repeated arrogance. Since a public bullwhipping, however satisfying, would most likely be viewed as outside of the boundaries of the law, I reccomend public humiliation.

This might be done via flyering throughout the neighborhood and the flyer might include the scofflaws picture, his address, a brief description of his actions, and of course, the "piece de resistance" the scofflaw's phone number with an encouragement to call in and share one's viewpoint.. (remember folks...its not libel if you print the truth.)

Posted by: Stephen H | December 3, 2007 2:10 PM

I never knew leaves were such a big issue!!

We have all kinds of other real issues we could be working on and writing stories about, but we are here bitching and moaning about leaves.

Its fall leaves are a part of life, same goes for people who don't rake them, same goes for folks who blow them on the street.

It happens, its life now stop moaning and pick up a rake if it has such a big impact on your life and well being!!

There are some people in New Haven who would take piles of leaves in the street over a bunch of shootings in the street.

Posted by: Common Sense | December 3, 2007 4:14 PM

Conscientious people who take the time and work effort to clean up leaves from their property and the street are always going to get upset when a neighbor doesn't clean up their property or rakes the leaves in the street. The leaves left on property and in the street will blow everywhere including back to the conscientious property owner. This is a problem in all parts of the City of New Haven. Some of the landscapers, who get paid for their work, are part of the problem. In the summer time they blow the clipped grass into the street and then drive away after their short stay.

The people who don't clean up the leaves from their property are also the last ones to remove the snow from their driveways and sidewalks - if they even do that. Leaves covered with the first snow fall will be plowed all over the neighborhood.

The pile of leaves left in the street are a fire hazard as an auto parked on them can become engulfed in flames from the hot pipes and muffler that can come in contact with the leaves. A discarded match or cigarette landing in the leaves will also set them on fire.

It would be nice if one of the mailings from the city would include the rules and regulations in regards to the responsibility of home owners concerning leaf removal, snow removal, trash and recycling, bulk collection, etc. Members of the Board of Alderman have an opportunity to contact their ward residents with a newsletter. This would be a good opportunity to remind the conscientious people that they support their efforts in keeping the neighborhood clean and let others know about the Municipal Code violations.

A clean neighborhood goes hand in hand with public safety. A clean neighborhood means that people care. A clean neighborhood will not tolerate gun play or drug related issues. A clean neighborhood unites the community.

Posted by: James | December 3, 2007 4:24 PM

Stephen-

Just because people are getting shot doesn't mean that we should abandon all other aspects of social cooperation and basic decency to others until other, more pressing issues are deal with. When I spend several hours of my weekend raking leaves only to find that my neighbor has blow his leaves into the street (which then migrate back into my yard), I get pissed off.

Your logic is faulty, as "bitching and moaning about leaves" is in no way detracting from efforts to get people to stop shooting each other nor does it distract anybody from larger issues at hand. In fact, maybe if I didn't have to rake up my neighbors leaves in addition to my own I could be working with a local charity or mentoring a kid who needs it.

Your "sh*t happens" attitude is, unfortunately, reflected by the City and is pretty representative of what's wrong with New Haven in the first place. People are getting shot, so why worry about leaves? Why enforce traffic laws when people are dealing drugs on the street corner? Trash in the street, crumbling sidewalks, or burned out buildings? Why address any public safety or quality of life issues while there is still crime and poverty?

The point here is that people need to work together and treat each other with a little respect and consideration. When I dump my trash in the street and say, "hell, it somebody else's problem now," I'm not pulling my weight. I'm abdicating personal responsibility in favor of personal gain and placing my burden on others. I'm telling all of the hard working, responsible people that took the time to do their part for their neighborhood and the city that the rules don't apply to me.

The parallels between people dumping their leaves in the street and New Haven's insidious social shortcomings is not that hard to see, Stephen. Hard working people tired of being taken for a ride by people who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. People who dump their problems on the City and expect somebody else to clean it up. That's what people are " bitching and moaning" about.

-James

Posted by: nfjanette | December 3, 2007 7:55 PM

What part of large piles of leaves in the street can create life-threatening situations didn't you understand? This isn't a frivolous aesthetic issue.

Posted by: -fairhavener- | December 3, 2007 8:19 PM

Information completely available to the public anytime:

352 SAINT RONAN ST
BERNARD SNOW

Current Assessed Value:
Buildings 602,490
Extra Building Features 3,920
Outbuildings 5,250
Land 181,650
Total: 793,310

Is this news worthy? I don't know. Maybe if you see this as one more example of how the wealthy disrespect everyone else by expecting us to pay to maintain them, or their property.

Or:

"2. I never met a kid yet who didn't want to jump in a pile of leaves. On the street, this is especially dangerous as mischievous motorists might decide to drive right through the pile and scatter the leaves." (Tim Kane)

Where I grew up, kids always used to play in the (legal) piles of leaves in the streets (that the city came to remove). A young boy was eventually hit by a young, leaf scattering adult motorist. As far as I know, concrete blocks (aka cinderblocks) were commonly placed in the piles of leaves ever since.

If the common household can manage to get their leaves into bags and leave them for the city to collect, I am sure the residents on St Ronan St can manage as well. As for the city coming to pick them up, that is another matter.

Posted by: Stephen H | December 3, 2007 9:53 PM

To NFJanette:

I grew up in a town where leaves were raked to the edge of the street each fall. Sometimes they sat there till spring it was no big deal.

Piles of leaves could be a hazard to a complete moron who decides to walk or drive through them.

Whoever is dumb enough to drive or walk into a pile of leaves deserves what they get.

I can sort of see your point since this city is full of people who lack common sense.

Posted by: nero | December 3, 2007 11:43 PM

Mulching is a better solution. Just going over the leaves with a good mulching lawnmower feeds the lawn and allows the city to save money not sweeping, transporting and disposing of leaves. it may feel stupid mowing in a winter coat, but everyone benefits.

Posted by: Bruce | December 4, 2007 9:34 AM

Stephen H: Is a 5 year old kid a "complete moron"?

Nero: Hit the nail on the head.

Posted by: pdh | December 4, 2007 11:48 AM

The vast majority of property owners in Ronan-Edgehill bag their leaves and/or have them hauled away by landscapers.

What made the incident in question so outrageous was that it was such an exception to the high standard of good citizenship and responsibility that characterizes the neighborhood.

Folks in Ronon-Edgehill take seriously the Zoning Ordinance's description of the area as being "of unique and irreplacable value to the community as a whole.' And that is why despoiling this community resource is taken by most residents as an affront.

Posted by: Stephen H | December 4, 2007 12:41 PM

Stephen H: Is a 5 year old kid a "complete moron"?

Nope, but his parents are for letting him play in a pile of leaves in the middle of the street.

Judging by the size of the house in question I doubt anyone in that neighborhood would be dumb enough to let their 5 year old play in the street. If they can afford a house like that they should have brains.

Then again we are dealing with people who drive like jerks in their German Automobiles while talking on their cell phones and piss and moan about everything.

Posted by: john j | December 4, 2007 2:52 PM

1. Where do the bagged leaves go after they leave my curb? They don't always seemed to get picked up with the normal trash.

2. Nero: i agree to a point with your idea - isn't only so much mulch (carbon from the leaves) actually good for the lawn. Not to mention that one will eventually run out of lawn in most places unless you own East Rock Park or something...

3. Fairhavener: Back in the day first we played in the leaves - then we burned them in the street, or the back yard. I realize burning is out...

4. It seems like the folks on West Rock Ave in Westville are first mulching their leaves in the street by raking then into the street and then driving over them for weeks. Then the city will come by and suck them up with their truck vac? Special treatment over there?

Posted by: cedarhillresident | December 4, 2007 4:08 PM

First WOW

Second I to agree with nero. I am lazy right now and have not touched my yard but part will go into my compost some will be bagged and the rest will be mowed.

Posted by: Bristol Boondoggle | December 4, 2007 6:16 PM

Let's bring back leaf burning. It used to be all so easy until the friggin' eco-warriors got into my backyard and took over!

Posted by: Bill Saunders | December 4, 2007 8:36 PM

What a wonderful civics lesson on autumn leaves!

Maybe it would be better to focus the dialog on more systemic issues like why the city DOES NOT pick up properly bagged leaves, as they have promised.

Though my leaves aren't on the curb yet, I do have neighbors whose leaves have been on the curb for over three weeks, with no attention from public works.

Casual conversations around town tell me that my neighborhood is not alone.

Posted by: Fairhaven Dave | December 4, 2007 11:50 PM

Perhaps it was said in Jest, but the return of backyard burning is not a good idea in a community with natural gas lines.

Regardless... 'Average Joe/Jane' have not been known in the past for being patient or prepared enough to monitor a fire made of little flaming bits of tree. The looks of dread a chimnea can cause!!!

Posted by: cedarhillresident | December 5, 2007 8:19 AM

Bill it was your leaf bags that tried to commit suicide last year by standing in the middle of the street....right?

Well this was the leaf schedule for this fall....??? hmmmm

http://www.cityofnewhaven.com/PublicWorks/WhatsNew.asp

Although my street sweep was done alot earlier (before the leafs fell). We had a late fall this year....so this schedule was to early for most.

Posted by: Ned | December 6, 2007 10:23 AM

The obvious solution is to cut down all of the trees, as many property owners have done in my neighborhood. No more trees = no more leaves! One person turned his lot into an unpaved parking lot pretty!; another person paved their entire yard with asphalt - smart!; a third owner just clear cut - now we can all see the sky - wonderful! On the other hand, the fallen leaves cover all of the trash that people don't pick up, and when the leaves freeze into the ice, on the snow covered sidewalks, the frozen leaf, dog poop, garbage mix provides some traction for pedestrians - everybody wins! I'm loving New Haven more and more! Who needs birds, trees, shade or oxygen anyway?

Posted by: dana b | December 6, 2007 11:01 PM

Ned, I read your comments for the laughs.