New Haven Independent

Posted by: joshua jones | January 16, 2008 8:35 AM

Outrageus. 100% on exam, Yo no good. At talk with chief. How much contribution yo give. $$$$$$. Right answer. Yo got a job. Look at firemen now. How many are african american? How many hispanic?
Poor people never make it here.

Posted by: Evan Smith | January 16, 2008 1:18 PM

I imagine these 51 guys won't be too happy that their future union president fought tooth and nail to delay their paychecks for 3 months / indefinitely.

Posted by: fly on the wall | January 16, 2008 3:54 PM

Yo "J.J" yo right but yo wrong! joshua jones has it right that this oral exam policy could be tainted. I agree with "j.j." that it is a possibility that someone could throw $$$$ in order to recieve a correct score. Jobs awarded for contributions has always been the way in the "city of John Destefano", but at least there was a basic written test that had to be passed!! This whole new testing process is completly designed so that the"city of Destefano" could get all the poor minorities;correction: those minorities that are connected, firefighter jobs. Joshua has not taken a good look at the New Haven fire department recently! Minorities are well represented, both black and hispanic! Both assistant chiefs are African American! The director of E.M.S. is Hispanic! The rank and file and fire officers are also well represented by the numbers! Some of the problems of the N.H.F.D
stem from the fact that the "city of Destefano" bends over too much in order to hire and promote
minorities!! The suburban white firefighters and applicants are not the target group that Destefano covets. It is the poor/minority people that reside and vote in the city that Destefano needs in order to stay in power! Self preservation is now one of the mayors biggest challenges. If Destefano losses a mayors election, then he has no job! And even though he is underpayed it's still his only bread and butter! This is why he has changed the rules as to entrence exams, and this is why J.J is misunderstood, because this test helps the poor, the blacks, and the hispanics get hired. This also allows the "city of Destefano" to conduct future promotional exams in the same fashion! Which ensures that the mayor keeps banking favors and votes in order to keep his underpayed J O B !

Posted by: Patrick Egan | January 16, 2008 7:03 PM

Evan:
Your comment suggests that there is something wrong for standing up against a process that is unfair and unjust. There are standards when it comes to civil service that are governed by the charter, etc. These standards are in place to attempt to obtain employees that are able to save peoples lives. Maybe that is not important to you but it is to the firefighters of the city since these are the people we will work with on a daily basis and may have to rely on to save our lives, and i would assume most of our residents. Also if we stood back and let the city pull all this BS on an entry level test it dilutes our arguments if they tried the same crap with promotions. You should also be aware that "their paychecks" aren't theirs. And my objections were not against any individual, they are the victims of the human resources. Remember, a man who stands for nothing falls for anything. You probably can't appreciate putting your life on the line to save someone elses life, if you could you would understand our concern. Stick with making cabinets, i'm sure you're good at it. p.s., as far as the other comments go (jones and fly) there is enough ignorance around here we don't need anymore so do us all a favor and put your head back up your a@#!!!

Posted by: joshua jones | January 16, 2008 9:14 PM

Mr Bass. Yo an educated man. Yo tell us the numbers on African American, White, Hispanic, Asias firefighters. All I know is my local firehouse all white when they sit out drinkin they Buds and Millers in summer.

More. Firefighters need strength. Why are their no test on this. How fast yo run up ladder. Howe much yo lift. Can yo point yo hose. Why these things not tested.

I'm not educated. I'm not stupid. Man go to interview. Say all right things. Yes boss. No boss. He get the job

Posted by: concerned jake | January 17, 2008 10:25 AM

First, there are a few points that need to be made about the comments herein, the article is what it is.

Mr. Jones, I don't know you and I would not call you a stupid man. I will say however that you're comments are ignorant and you are grossly uninformed on the issues.

The complaints about the exam were legit. The process was changed without notification of the candidates regardless of thier race. This was done with for dubious reasons and flies in the face of the judges order in the matt hurley v. new haven case. Oral exmams are notoriously unreliable as the are too subjective. Furthermore the testing company was a hired gun, who provides the desired results for the customer.

The city goes to great legnths to ensure diversity on recruitments lists in all city departments. Often violating the rights of non-minorities,ie. numerous lawsuits involving police and fire tests.

Now Evan, You are right on some issues, but certainly not all. By the way what was the passing score for the written? Nobody knows, why do you think that is? Mr. Egan fights for the rights of his dues paying members, and he does a great J O B and he is grossly underpaid.

Egan is also responsible in large part to ensure thier safety. Hiring recruits off a potentially suspect test, where candidtes may have been given a watererd down version of a test, could potentially mean that the fire department is geting employees who should not be firefighters, and then they are surprised why these firefighters do so poorly on a promotional exams, and the cycle of ignorance continues. Pat Egan is protecting the safety of his membership. Don't think for a minute that he doesn't the dues from those 27 members, because he does, what he doesn't want is to make funeral arrangements for firefighters who couldn't think thier way out of a paper bag. For this he shuld be applauded.

JJ. You also talk about "your firehouse," it is good to see that you are concerned about what is going on there. You pay for it, however, I don't think that things are as crazy there as you describe. In fact they may be inflamatory and irresponsible.

As far as physical ability, the city strongly opposed a uniform physcal test for firefighter candidates, even though it is endorsed by the IAFF and IAFC. The city gives a watered down version allowing up to 16 minutes for a physical test that is allowed 8. My grandmother could pass it. However in training some candidates (too few in some cases) do wash out because of physical inability. This would be avoided if the physical test was within the standard.

I hope I have cleared up a few things.

Posted by: fly on the wall | January 17, 2008 6:52 PM

J.J ,HOW IRONIC! MY FIREHOUSE IN MY NIEGHBORHOOD (WESTVILLE) HAS ALL BLACK FIREFIGHTERS SITTING OUT IN FRONT! HOWEVER I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT NO FIREFIGHTER WOULD BE SO FOOLISH TO JEOPERDIZE THIER OWN LIVES, NEVER MIND FELLOW FIREFIGHTERS AND THE CITIZENS THAT THEY ARE PAID TO PROTECT, BY DRINKING BUDS AND MILLERS WHILE ON DUTY! WHITE OR BLACK. AS PATRICK EGAN SAID YOU (AND I) NEED TO GET "YO" IGNORANT HEAD OUT OF YOUR @#%. AS FOR MR EGAN AND YOUR REFERENCE TO MY IGNORANCE: I AM SURE YOU WERE OFFENDED BY EVAN'S COMMENT! AND ARE LASHING OUT AT EVERYONE! I FEEL HIS COMMENT WAS WAY OFF BASE AND LIKE CONCERNED JAKE FEEL THAT YOU HAVE YOUR FELLOW FIREFIGHTERS IN MIND WHEN YOU QUESTION ALL THINGS FIRE RELATED. YET AS TO WHY I NEED TO REMOVE MY HEAD FROM MY REAR IS WHAT I QUESTION? I WAS RESPONDING TO JOSHUA JONES AND MY OPINION WAS NOT THAT OFF BASE. I AM SURE MY OPINION WAS NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT ENOUGH FOR YOU TO AGREE WITH, BUT I AM SURE YOUR UNION MEMBERS THAT ARE SUING THE CITY TO GET PROMOTED WOULD AGREE!! MR EGAN, KEEP STANDING AND BY ALL MEANS DO NOT FALL FOR ANYTHING!!!

Posted by: Common Sense | January 17, 2008 8:09 PM

The best friend a bonafied New Haven Firefighter can have is Local 825. When the chips are down too many people remain silent or do nothing. The union represents ALL members of the department in accordance with department rules and regulations, city charter, union contract, by-Laws and the principals of the International Association of Firefighters.

Posted by: Evan Smith | January 17, 2008 10:52 PM

Patrick - My comment was purely an observation that it's an akward situation, no more. Call me stupid, but what's with the cabinets reference?

Posted by: joshua jones | January 19, 2008 1:18 AM

Fly on the wall sure got pissed big time wi me. I only say what I saw. More I say what I think. I dont say there are no minorities in fire fighters. I ask are they enough. We all here together man, an I done care who house it is on fire, it need protectin. An i done care if firefighters sip a beer on a hot day. An i done care if they all black in Westville. All I ask is that across city they is good balance. Now Mr Bass. Will you answer me. What numbers for each etnic grouop. How many Asians. They here to yo know. How many native? How many mexican? Fare is fare. We all live here. We have an interest. We wanna help.