New Haven Independent

Posted by: Toni Be Our Mayor | January 30, 2008 3:21 PM

Please be our mayor Tony.
...it's achievement first by the way.

Posted by: WEBblog 1 | January 30, 2008 3:26 PM

Well now... what has gotten into Senator Harp. She has sat in the corner for years and not opened her mouth about what has, or has not, been going on in education particularly or in New Haven generally. Specifically, not during the 14 years Destefano has been Mayor.

This out-burst can be properly categorized as TL2."Too Little too late".

Others might say it's never too late to criticize education results in New Haven. However, we still cannot get an accurate assessment from state or federal education officials concerning test score results that the local BOA won't themselves criticize and come up with alternate interpretations of drop-out and test scores.

Where has Harp been for the last seven years? During that time Harp has approved each and every spending request, including increases for all types of BOA spending request .

Okay Harp, fess-up, what's on your hidden agenda?

Posted by: Esbe | January 30, 2008 4:08 PM

My head is spinning a little bit, because I agree with almost everything that Toni Harp says in this piece and I am not usually a big fan.

must ... sit ... down ...

Posted by: Gary Doyens | January 30, 2008 4:38 PM

Thank you Toni Harp for candor and directness however belated. It's never to late to change.

As for the gobblygook that comes from City Hall:

""We have no issue with charters," DeStefano said. In terms of making our schools better: we have people who come to work every day in our New Haven Public Schools dedicated to making things better, dedicated to making sure our students succeed. "When it comes to charters and New Haven Public Schools, it isn't a matter of choosing one over the other."

What the hell does that mean? Everytime I read a meaningless, fact challenged, suck up statement like that, it convinces me all over again that what happens in City Hall is not only a robbery in terms of the money they vacuum up and the pathetic performance they produce, but it convinces me the mayor and his closest minions are completely detached from common folks, common sense and reality.

1. The mayor and the NH BOE have made it abundantly clear they don't like charters and they don't like the people who challenge the status quo of the NH public schools.

2. This group just took up valuable school board time just a month ago to demonize these folks all over again with a paid hit man from the teachers union.

3. The charter group agreed with many of his findings but also noted that their reports are generated from the data that's available from the State of Connecticut which in some cases, is lacking because certain reports are not required of systems like New Haven.

4. NOBODY has EVER said the teachers are doing a bad job or that they're not dedicated. The vast majority of them are. But something is missing when half the kids at our premier high school (Wilbur Cross) will flunk out or otherwise graduate.

5. Fact is there is complacency and acceptance of mediocrity. We have whole schools declared failures and others called "drop out factories." There is a problem and it's past time to fix it with bold smart moves and no excuses.

Posted by: darnell | January 30, 2008 5:35 PM

Wow, what is in the air or water? First these guys don't show up for the mayor's press conference on leg. priorities, and then this. Two years ago, when I considered running for State Rep before I went ot New Orleans to assist with the recovery, I said that my number one priority would be improving the educational system in New Haven. Still is.

Posted by: Your Tax Dollars at Work | January 30, 2008 6:06 PM

Toni Harp said it so well! Thanks, Toni and congratulations for standing up for equality in education!

As for the garage, you're right again, Toni.

Posted by: eli | January 31, 2008 1:49 AM

darnell, what are you talking about. you know, you aren't making a good impression as someone who wants to be my next mayor.
are you with destefano on this by refering to our duly elected state reps. as "these guys".
johnny has done his best to distance himself from the most honest, true to their electorate officials.
john's burned his bridges to hartford, even those that run through new haven.
remember these: he tried to push out dillon with purette cumalade-silverman becasue she disagreed on some issues with him, he dismissed dyson because he showed a monicum of respect to the acting govoner at the time, he's completely written off cam staples, juan candelaria and toni walker because....well, who knows why. he beat marty loney in a hotly contested primary that took place tuesday september 11, 2001 when a fraction of the voters turned out. He has no respect for the state reps. and his trouncing in the gov. race has only made him angry at anyone who holds a higher political rankinng, so he's closed ranks and tried to make new haven his fifedom.
You sire have shown us no reason to believe you are either capable of beating him in an election or responsible for your own actions. i trust nobody who can't admit they've made mistakes. so fare all i've heard from you are excuses.
an honest mia culpa goes a lot futher than a truckload of excuses.
i appreciate the state level officials recognising the arrogance and pettiness of mayor john's attempts, and wish my alderwoman had a mind of her own.

Posted by: catherine sullivan-decarlo | January 31, 2008 10:23 AM

Our schools have improved! The fact is, our students are performing better in the classroom, as measured by our own assessments and as measured by state standardized tests. When you look at key indicators from early childhood to graduation, there has been steady improvement and growth. These strides should be applauded, not denigrated.

While we still have work to do, our students gained in 8 out of 10 areas on the 2007 Connecticut Mastery Test, especially in 3rd and 6th grade, where scores improved in all content areas, and in math, where every grade improved. We are proud of the fact that State Commissioner of Education Mark McQuillan twice last year showcased one of our schools, Harry A. Conte West Hills Magnet School, at statewide forums as a model in terms of reading growth.

In the area of early childhood, we also have seen significant improvement. In 2008, 73 percent of those children who entered our kindergartens had pre-k experience, and did significantly better than those who didn't on early literacy assessments.

There is a reason that New Haven continues to be a leader in magnet schools. There is a reason that our district won a $7.5 million federal magnet grant over dozens of other school districts across the country to expand our magnet schools. There is a reason that many of our magnet schools have waiting lists, and that the suburban students who come to our schools from 28 neighboring towns now numbers 1,800. Many of these schools have waiting lists.

Let's focus on what is working and gain the help and resources from the State to expand those successes.

Posted by: Rose Coggins & Linda Powell | January 31, 2008 10:46 AM

On January 17th, Wilbur Cross honored 85 students who passed 150 AP Exams (60%). Over the last 3 years, Cross has increased enrollment in AP classes by 47%, the number of AP classes by 31%, and the number of passing scores by 132%. This is at the same time Cross has increased its minority enrollment from 39% to 61%. Clearly, Cross teachers are preparing more students to succeed in the most rigorous courses offered nationwide. Another indication of academic success comes from the school honor roll, which lists 1/3 of the senior class as honorees. Additionally, 80 Cross students currently take university classes through Yale, SCSU, UNH, and Gateway Community College. More Cross students are prepared for college than ever before.
Wilbur Cross staff works very hard to uphold high academic standards. The teachers have high expectations for all of their students. Cross has a very diverse, transient student body, with students entering and leaving the school all year long. The Cross administrative and guidance team knows where these students go when they leave Cross. The fact is that Cross is a large comprehensive, premier high school, not a small magnet school. And yet, why do so many students choose Cross above all other 8 high schools and will not go anywhere but Cross?

Posted by: Darnell | January 31, 2008 11:15 AM

Eli,

I, like everyone else, has made mistakes. I certainly made mistakes at CAA, which I have learned from. I will not, though, take responsibility for the mistakes others have made, or take blame for those things I have not done. I have settled with CAA and moved on, why haven't you?

The students at our schools have been flunking and failing out for years, this is not a new phenomenon that appeared once ConnCan started talking about it. The legislators had as much responsibility has the mayor to address this problem, since all of these schools and students live in their districts, they did not. Hell, one of the Reps is a Vice Principal in the system. One of them spoke out once, for whatever reason, let's see what happens from here before you start giving out awards.

I will be campaigning on common sense issues that are important to me; an improved Public Education system; a more proactive Public Safety system; and a responsive Public Works dept. Perhaps I can not beat the current mayor, but it will not be for lack of trying. With my candidacy, you will not get a DeStefano Lite candidate like you have seen the last few elections. If these issues are important to you, and you want to see reduce government and more of your money back in your pocket, and you agree with me on proposed solutions (which will be forthcoming shortly), then vote for me, if not, oh well.

Posted by: Darnell | January 31, 2008 11:32 AM

Rose and Linda,

The public school system has many dedicated employees, from janitors to Principals. Many students are succeeding, there is no doubt about that. Many of these students are the cream of the crop, and more than likely, because of attitude and family will succeed not matter where they are. My concern is with the 40% of the kids who are dropping out. Or the high number of children who are testing extremely low in standardized tests. New Haven is at the bottom of the 160 + school systems in these categories. Why? And when someone mentions that there is a problem, they are vilified as the enemy. You can not solve a problem if you don't admit to it, which is what is happening in this administration.

And guess what, these 40% who drop out end up where, more than likely the prison system at $40,000 per year. And then we ask for additional funding to deal with them when they return to our communities after they are released. And while it is extremely difficult to find a job without a record, it is 100 times more difficult without a HS diploma and a criminal record.

Therefore, we should be talking about this problem, we should not be passing along blame, and we should be finding solutions at the front end rather than waiting for them to return from jail.

Posted by: Your Tax Dollars at Work | January 31, 2008 12:08 PM

Hey Catherine, Rose & Linda: You forgot to identify yourselves as spokespeople (toadies) for the Mayor and the Teachers' Unions.

Posted by: Nestor Makhno | January 31, 2008 1:39 PM

As an anti-Stalinist, I would never put my child through what Achievement First calls an "Amistadization" program, though the NHI and Toni Harp are clearly uncritical fans of this model. In fact Amistad Academy has been canonized to such an extent on this website that it is becoming increasingly difficult to trust the NHI's coverage of school reform in general. No doubt there will be future articles about this "celebrated" and "nationally recognized" academy, whose urban students score higher on standardized tests than their suburban counterparts.

That the test score brag is trotted out so often is kind of funny, given there is a growing consensus that standardized tests are mostly irrelevant. As Toni Harp reluctantly recognizes, too, the charter school population is not comparable to the regular public school population. At Amistad, the students are chosen by lottery from those whose parents APPLIED to the school and thus the students represent only a subset of the general school-aged population. Seems like the knowledge-based economy Harp mentions is going to be an unpleasant one if the pay and benefits offered by charter schools become the norm.

There is money to be made tapping public school funds to open charter schools and these charter school management companies are popping up like weeds. The charter school movement is a powerful mix of well-intentioned educators, less well-intentioned religious folk (with as many as eight children!), and free market proponents primarily interested in seeing the teachers' unions undermined and the lines between public and private blurred. (The latter despises public schools to such an extent that they are even willing to embrace affirmative action schemes.) Despite its non-profit status, Achievement First should be eyed with a certain suspicion, as it is not different in kind from Edison Schools, the for-profit company that has failed NY so miserably.

Posted by: Patricia DeMaio | January 31, 2008 2:26 PM

As the executive director of the New Haven Public School Foundation, I am compelled to say a few words because our schools are improving. Our educators are committed to excellence and continually working to improve. So, it must be so disheartening when their successes are ignored and overshadowed by criticism.

I see the improvements in the work I do with partners in our community. For example, the New Haven Public School Foundation recently had the opportunity to develop a partnership with another business that is excited about getting involved in our public schools. They have agreed to adopt a school and will provide tutors and mentors for our students. In addition, they're also willing to support our mini-grant program which funds innovative projects focused on student achievement and enrichment--results oriented programs designed by educators in New Haven Public Schools. This business partnership is an exciting opportunity and one of many examples of how our school district works collaboratively and creatively with the community to help students reach their full potential.

Let's celebrate success and build a community of support. I invite you to join us in our efforts by getting involved. We have many opportunities available and you'll have the chance to see first hand why we are proud of New Haven Public Schools.

Posted by: Paul Bass | January 31, 2008 3:48 PM

The following was sent in to be posted as a comment, by Dominick Maldonado:

My name is Dominick Maldonado, a grandparent of three students in the New Haven Public Schools. I am very active in their education. I strongly support the efforts of our Superintendent, Dr. Mayo and Mayor DeStefano, to make the school system a better and more positive learning environment for all of our students in Greater New Haven. My grandchildren attend Columbus Family Academy, Wilbur Cross and John S. Martinez and I am president of the PTO at Columbus. I can say, without hesitation, that my grandchildren are getting a very good education in beautiful learning environments. I would recommend Sen. Harp come and visit our schools so that she can witness how we are preparing our students to become the future leaders of our country. Our Community
Engagement team meets every month and we are working hard to deepen parental and community engagement in the education of all of our kids.
Our hope and our goal is to support the NHPS, instead of furthering a combative environment.

Posted by: Luz Burgos | January 31, 2008 4:09 PM

As the parent of a student at Vincent Mauro elementary school, I am sorry to see so many negative comments about the schools. My daughter loves Vincent Mauro and is getting a quality education. She goes to school with students not just from New Haven but from other towns. The school is warm, inviting, the teachers are very dedicated, and our principal, Denise Coles-Cross, is fantastic. Let's not assume that one school is the only one doing a good job.

Posted by: Robert Canelli | January 31, 2008 5:01 PM

As the Supervisor of the New Haven Choice Program, I want to applaud the district for creating the largest choice program in Connecticut. We have over 1700 students from 29 suburban towns coming to school every day in New Haven. Our magnet schools have strong themes and/or educational philosophies that have attracted parents outside the school district and have been improving in student achievement, reduced racial, ethnic and economic isolation by creating a more diverse population. This year, we received another Federal grant worth about $7.5 million dollars to start four new magnet schools. We have districts from all over the country coming to New Haven to model our magnet schools. Each of our magnet schools has to go through an intense evaluation each year. Quantitative, extant data (e.g.demographic information and standardized test results) will be used in conjuction with questionnaire, interview and observation data as well as with qualitative data resources (e.g.school improvement plans, developed curriculum materials, parent activity logs, professional development records) in order to assure a thorough and balanced evaluation.

As we continue to build capacity in our magnet schools, more and more families have shown an interest. Our magnet fairs have been very successful.

I will continue to work on strengthening the magnet program by offering parents choices that may interest their child in a very different and special way.

Posted by: The Rev. Mr. Samuel T. Ross-Lee | January 31, 2008 6:53 PM

SENATOR TONI HARP COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG IN HER STATEMENTS CONCERNING CHARTER SCHOOLS IN NEW HAVEN AND CHARTER SCHOOLS ACROSS THIS NATION. LET'S BE CLEAR ABOUT IT: THE ESTABLISHMENT OF CHARTER SCHOOLS OVER AND AGAINST THE REALITY OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM WILL EFFECTIVELY CREATE A TWO-TIER SCHOOL SYSTEM WITH DE FACTO SEGREGATION OF OUR CHILDREN A LA PRE-BROWN V. BOARD OF EDUCATION, BUT THIS TIME THE SEGREGATION WILL BE BASED ON ECONOMICS AND SOCIAL STANDING, RATHER THAN RACE ALONE, THOUGH SEGREGATION BY RACE WILL BE MORE EVIDENT THAN NOT AS ECONOMIC AND CLASS DISTINCTIONS USUALLY BREAK DOWN BY RACE IN MOST AMERICAN CITIES.
THE TWO-TIER EDUCATION SYSTEM IS BUILT INTO THE PRACTICES THAT THE CHARTER SCHOOLS ALREADY USE TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT THEY ARE GETTING BETTER RESULTS FROM THEIR METHODS THAN DO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AS THEY (THE CHARTERS) ARE "DOING THE JOB WITH ALMOST THE SAME, NOT EXACTLY THE SAME, POPULATION OF KIDS.", AS SENATOR HARP WOULD SAY. READ THE QUOTE CAREFULLY HERE, BECAUSE THE DEVIL, AS THEY SAY, IS IN THE DETAILS. HARP'S COMMENTS MASSAGES THE FACT THAT THE CHARTER SCHOOLS AND THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE NOT EDUCATING THE SAME POPULATION OF KIDS AND SHE DOES SO BECAUSE IF YOU TAKE THAT FACT INTO SERIOUS CONSIDERATION, THEN YOU SEE HOW THE CHARTER SCHOOL CAN MAKE THEIR SHAKY CLAIM THAT THEY ARE DOING A BETTER JOB WITH THE "SAME KIDS" THAT THE PUBLIC SCHOOL IS FAILING. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME KIDS.
THE CHARTER SCHOOLS, INDEED START WITH THE "SAME KIDS" ON SOME LEVEL, AS ALL OF THEIR STUDENTS COME TO THEM THROUGH A LOTTERY THAT IS OPEN TO ALL NEW HAVEN STUDENTS. BUT THE CHARTER SCHOOLS SKIM OFF OF THE TOP BY TAKING THE BEST KIDS FROM THE LOTTERY SITUATION AND FINDING CREATIVE (SOME MIGHT SAY SNEAKY) WAYS TO SEND THE REST OF THEM BACK TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS. THE TEST SCORES THAT THEY DELIVER COME FROM THE BEST OF THE STUDENTS, WITH THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF PARENTAL SUPPORT, ASSISTANCE AND INVOLVEMENT. ARE THESE KIDS THE "SAME KIDS" WHO HAVE BEEN IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM? YES, BUT IN THE CHARTER SYSTEM THEIR GOOD TEST SCORES ARE NOT CALCULATED WITH THE TEST SCORES OF CHILDREN WHOSE PARENTS ARE NOT INVOLVED IN THEIR EDUCATION, FOR WHATEVER REASON, AND WHOSE MOTIVATION IS NOT WHAT IT SHOULD OR CAN BE TO GUARANTEE THEM SUCCESS AT THE SECONDARY SCHOOL LEVEL.
THE REASON THAT THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO MATCH THE RESULTS (IT WOULD BE MISLEADING TO CALL IT SUCCESS) OF THE CHARTERS IS BASED IN THE FACT THAT STUDENTS WITH BAD SITUATIONS IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL CANNOT SIMPLY BE MADE TO GO AWAY, LIKE THEY CAN IN THE CHARTERS. THE PUBLIC SCHOOL HAS TO ABSORB THE GRADES, THE ATTITUDES, AND THE BEHAVIOR OF EACH OF ITS STUDENTS, BE THEY MARVELOUS OR MAL-ADJUSTED.
IN THE CHARTER SCHOOL MOTIVATED STUDENTS WITH MARVELOUS PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT MINUS MAL-ADJUSTED PEER INFLUENCE EQUALS MARVELOUS RESULTS. IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS THE RESULTS OF MOTIVATED STUDENTS FRUSTRATINGLY MUST BE COMBINED WITH THE RESULTS OF STUDENTS WHO LACK MOTIVATION, PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT, AND SOCIAL SKILLS, THUS GREATLY INFLUENCING THE FINAL TEST SCORES FOR THE ENTIRE SCHOOL AND SCHOOL SYSTEM. IN SHORT, THE CHARTERS CAN GET RID OF THEIR INEVITABLE PROBLEM SITUATIONS WHILE THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM ARE FORCED TO ABSORB THEIRS. GIVEN THIS FACT, IT IS AT LEAST UNFAIR AND PROBABLY DISINGENUOUS FOR HARP AND OTHERS TO MAKE THE FALSE COMPARISON BETWEEN THE TWO SYSTEMS.
BUT HERE IS THE LARGER QUESTION THAT EVERY POLITICIAN, EVERY SCHOOL BOARD, AND EVERY "NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND" ADVOCATE SHOULD ASK: IF THE CHARTER SCHOOL ORGANIZERS HAVE FOUND A BETTER WAY TO EDUCATE THE "SAME STUDENTS", AS THEY CLAIM, THEN WHY THE NEED TO SET UP A SEPARATE SYSTEM? WHY NOT SIMPLY MAKE THAT "BETTER WAY" AVAILABLE AND ACCESSIBLE TO ALL KIDS? WHY NOT MAKE THE WHOLE SYSTEM BETTER? WOULDN'T THAT BE THE ETHICAL, MORAL OR JUST PLAIN RIGHT THING TO DO? IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE PUBLIC MONEY TO EDUCATION SOME OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOL'S STUDENTS, WHY ISN'T THAT MONEY BEING USED TO EDUCATE ALL OF OUR CHILDREN?
HEREIN LIES THE UNCOMFORTABLE PART FOR THE CHARTERS TO HAVE TO ADMIT: IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS AS A SAFETY NET TO WHICH THEY SENT BACK STUDENTS WITH PROBLEMS OF ONE KIND OR ANOTHER, THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO CALL WHAT THEY DO "SUCCESS". THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO LAY CLAIM TO THE NOTION THAT THEY ARE DOING WHAT OTHERS CANNOT DO WITH THE "SAME KIDS". TO CLAIM SUCCESS, THE CHARTERS NEED THE PUBLIC SCHOOL TO EXIST AS IS, BUT IN MAINTAINING THAT STATUS QUO THEY CREATE THE TWO-TIER SEGREGATED SCHOOL SYSTEM THAT WILL PROVIDE SUPERB RESOURCES AND RESULTS TO SOME WHILE ALLOWING ALL TOO MANY TO LANGUISH AND FALL THROUGH THE CRACKS OF A SYSTEM BURDENED OFTEN BEYOND ITS CONTROL.
WITH THE LUXURY OF SEND STUDENTS BACK TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOL WHOM THEY DEEM UNEDUCABLE IN THEIR SYSTEM, CUTTING OFF LOTTERY PICKS AFTER AT CERTAIN DATE, (WHILE THE PUBLIC SCHOOL MUST TAKE SCHOOL KIDS NO MATTER WHEN THEY SHOW UP), AND SUBJECTING KIDS TO PLACEMENT TEST UPON ADMISSION AND USING THOSE TEST RESULT TO DISCOURAGE SOME STUDENTS FROM STAYING IN THE CHARTER PROGRAM BY THREATENING THEM WITH GRADE RETENTION, THE CHARTERS ARE MANIPULATING A PROCESS THAT ALLOWS THEM TO MAKE CLAIMS THAT SIMPLY ARE NOT TRUE, AND THE SENATOR SHOULD ALREADY KNOW OR BECOME AWARE OF THESE FACTS BEFORE SHE ADVOCATES FOR AN UNFAIR PROCESS.

Posted by: Gary Doyens | January 31, 2008 8:19 PM

It's interesting to read all these positive stories just bursting forth from NH BOE employees, spokespeople, union reps and the like. I'm glad there are good stories and I hope my comments were not construed to mean there is not some good news and positive educational experiences in the NH public schools. My children attend the public schools and their school is a first rate operation from the principal to the custodian and security. (Edgewood Magnet).

However, it is easy to focus on the success and on the areas of growth while glossing over huge swaths of our sprawling educational complex that need work. It's useful from a morale point of view and for political spin. But a few months from now, the NHI will report a story on how the central office will breathe a sigh of relief because we failed less than we did the year before and there will ensue a lot of comments about the seduction of low expectations.

Rose and Linda: If you know where these students go who fail to graduate from Cross after having entered there - do tell. Where are they? What school are they enrolled in and how did they do? Perhaps your information would then be useful in refuting the national status as a "drop out factory."

Posted by: eli | January 31, 2008 9:13 PM

I see several of Dr. Mayo's appointees responding with some evidence of improvment in a few select schools. What we won't see are responses from those who've dropped out, have poor reading skills or cannnot afford a computer because they've matriculated out of the system ( i believe the n.h.p.s. calles this "graduation") because they don't have any idea a site like the independent even exists in the same universe.
the numbers for our schools are unfathomably low across the board, the system is overloaded financially, the teachers are burning out, the kids are not getting a fair education, and by the time they reach high school, many of them have lost interest in what is going on. Once again, the school system cannot admit to it's shortcomings - a characteristic shared by the mayor and his administration - and feel the need to shout about it's few success stories. I believe in being proud of accomplishments, but as we all know, admitting there is a problem is the first step towards recovery.
Less hubris, more humble expression, and seeking help. that goes for everyone.

Posted by: mary | January 31, 2008 10:52 PM

Here we go again dont we all just get tired of all the negative talk of our schools.I Do!All four of my daughters went thru the New Haven Public Schools.One a graduate from Career who is just finishing her Nursing degree,#2 graduate from Coop who is a Para-Legal working for a great Law firm,#3 A senior at Cross who just finished college applications she wants to be an English teacher and work in New Haven Public Schools,#4 A 10TH grader who is at Career who is going for a Business degree.Let me tell you I had problems with all of them and I wish I could say I fixed all of them on my own but I had a lot of help.The great Teachers,Principals,and many parents and our Superintendent Dr.Mayo have helped me with not just my own girls but countless other kids in the community.Sure there are still problems in the schools but we need to work together to fix them.I say yea to Charter Schools great job,yea to public schools there are enough kids who ever wants to help Go For It!Join your Management Teams,become a volunteer in your schools.Be an active member of your community to help every kid in your community succeed.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | February 1, 2008 11:09 AM

Rev.Ross-Lee
Beware On you Capitalization Or You will be the Next E.E. Cummings and if you donot belive me ask James, Edward_H Cedarhill Resident And Streever.

Posted by: LRountree | February 1, 2008 12:46 PM

As an Amistad employee, I normally stay away from all the political commotion that sadly goes along with educating our kids. However, I have to weigh in to say that Amistad's success is more involved than just parent involvement, parent involvement is crucial any students success no matter where they attend school but is goes further than that. As with any school, there are parents who are more involved than others for various reasons. Many parents work one or more jobs or maybe attending school themselves. I would also like to add that our students come from the magnet school lottery which NHPS Magnet school office has been so gracious to allow us to participate to keep things fair. We have no sway in any way about who makes it to our schools. I have been apart of Amistad for nearly seven years and I have sat in on many parent meetings, and never have I known any member of Amistad to ask any parent to remove their children form our schools. In fact, when parents do entertain the thought of removing their children, we do everything in our power for that not to happen. I must say that I have a great affinity for NHPS being a lifetime New Haven resident and product of the public school system. I also agree that there are great teachers that exist everywhere. The fight is not colleague to colleague, the fight is with the many outside forces that affect all students' education careers. No one has a magic bullet; it takes a village to raise a child.

Posted by: ROBN | February 1, 2008 12:53 PM

New Haven Schools will NEVER...EVER...overcome the inequities of urban poverty and the effect of poor homelife, lack of discipline, and poor nutrition in poor households. Every victory that our teachers achieve, no matter how statistically dismal they may seem compared to well funded gold-coast schools, is a victory indeed given the hurdles set before them. Wanting our goals to improve is good, but expecting teachers to be parents is ridculous. I just wonder if the same people who shout for goals in the educational system are also those that want to gut it?

Posted by: Darnell | February 1, 2008 12:59 PM

The issue here is not the charters, even though they factor in. The real issue is the failure of the school system. 40% drop out rates are inexcusable, CAPT scores at 25% of level are a disgrace. We certainly need to salute the successes, but at the same time we can not ignore the failures, because they will come back to haunt us in the future.

In regards to the charters, competition is good. We should have more of it. Why should the public school system have a monopoly? Especially with their track record.

Posted by: Yazmin | February 1, 2008 2:06 PM

As a parent Of 2 Amistad Students I can't believe that they would say some mean things on how Amistad got their students, I live in one of the worst neighborhoods of New Haven, if the students where chosen, I don't think my boys wouldn't have been chosen especially knowing that my boys are not saints, But you have to go to the school see what these kids can achieve and are achieving daily and the respect that everyone has, why are we fighting off what school is better or not we should just be focused on that our kids get their education and do the things right. And when my boys where going to the public schools if they needed help or I needed to speak with a teacher I had to wait for an appointment and with Amistad I have everyones Cellphone so if I need help I call them, that has been my experience with the public school system. The only thing I want to make clear is that there is no choosing kids its a lottery just like any other magnet school if it was like that my kids will not be in Amistad right at this moment....

Posted by: Westville Mother | February 1, 2008 3:18 PM

There is a reason for chocolate, strawberry and vanilla ice cream. As with these choices, learning styles cannot be the same and be expected to reach all of our children. Individualized teaching is impossible when there is a classroom of almost 30 students. As a grandparent of twin Amistad students, I prefer watching them become educated there. I am a very strong advocate of the Amistad education. I could get in to all the pros and cons yet I do not want to muddy the waters of a crystal clear message.. Amistad is a school of choice and I am eternally grateful for having made this choice. It works for us. Amistad students live in New Haven.....is New Haven fighting with New Haven? Be careful, be very, very careful! We all know this song and it begins and ends on a sour note.

Posted by: Nestor Makhno | February 1, 2008 3:21 PM

If the front page article in today's NY Times is any indication, it looks like online learning is the future. Perhaps New Haven should start a One Laptop per Child program and this discussion about brick and mortar schools will soon be finished.

.

Posted by: Jeff Klaus | February 1, 2008 4:45 PM

Senator Harp has been a strong advocate and supporter for Amistad (and Achievement First) since it's inception over 10 years ago. Perhaps her rhetoric is changing because like lots of us, she is frustrated by the lack of collaboration between the district and AF in providing an excellent education for ALL New Haven public school children. She also may be troubled by the increasing hostility directed towards AF by the BOE. I for one am actually thrilled to hear about the mayor's recently stated interest in attending Amistad board meetings. Perhaps it is a sign that this long-awaited collaboration is finally near!

Reverend Ross-Lee,

You are a community and opinion leader. That is why it is so important that you are accurate with your public statements. Much of your commentary here is just plain wrong. But I trust that you believe what you say, so I am hoping that you will be open to reviewing accurate information which may contradict your assertions. So please accept my personal invitation to join me on a tour of several of the ground-breaking charter schools to which you refer. We can make a day of it, maybe even with a reporter in tow to ensure objectivity.

At the end of the tour and after we look at all the student demographics, admission criteria, performance data, and parental data, if you still believe the playing field is so unequal, and more importantly that the motivations of the operators are to dismantle the public school system, please say so loudly on this page. Perhaps our trip could actually be the beginning of a productive community conversation around the issues of education reform.

I truly believe that among all Connecticut cities, New Haven holds THE MOST potential to close the achievement gap over the next several years, and to prepare the vast majority of it's children for college and a secure and productive life. As hard and as difficult as this will be to accomplish, great public education is the only way to bring everyone into the economic mainstream.

For now, I'll make only one friendly correction to your comments. Charter schools ARE public schools. And in New Haven especially, they are a wonderful choice WITHIN our public school system.

Jeff Klaus

Posted by: Pat | February 1, 2008 8:08 PM

It is so easy for people on the sidelines ranging from state senators to wannabe mayors to critize the public schools and those that work day in and day out. The schools, administrators and teachers every day must face the Sisyphean task of teaching too many children that face not the politically correct euphemism: challenges but real live tragedies. These children live in sub-standard houses with (sadly) only mothers who are disorganized at best, too often substance abusers, have serial boyfriends and are indifferent to their children. Others live inhouseholds that struggle just to survive, where parents have to work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet; where with the best of intentions adults are overwhelmed. Sometimes these parents are immigrants who don't speak English and are terrified to visit their kids school. Life in the city isn't easy as the Stevie Wonder song says. Even children who live in stable family situations often live in neighborhoods where they see and hear things that no child of an impressionable age should see YET most of them regardless of these obstacles go to school and learn. Some should get points just for getting themselves there. Schools, teachers even the maligned so-called overpaid administrators are no substitute for a well-organized, college educated 2-parent loving home. The "system" cannot overcome every single social problem faced by urban families and their kids: it is an unrealistic expectattion. And any person who claims to have a panacea is full of hooey or is just plain ignorant.
One of the great strengths of the NH system over the last 15 yrs. has been its recognition that there is no magic bullet and hence, has adopted as many diffrent models, created an array of programs giving parents and kids as large a menu of possibilities as possible. Every child is unique and the greater the variety of choices the more likely there will be one that can spark the love of learning in a child. To use a term from above - Stalinization or a one-size MUST fit all is not a solution to the problems of urban education. Choice, efforts to eliminate poverty and all its insidious side effects, building safe communities are all just as likely (probably more so) to improve education in the city. No one, with any sense, is going to argue that children would benefit from smaller classrooms, better trained teachers, a longer school day but this requires more money to pay for more teachers and classrooms ( you can't increase the number of classrooms & have no where to place them) which is why anything that syphons funds away from the public schools such as charter schools makes advocates of public education nervous.
It is presumptuous of any one group to thimk that they have the key to success. I suspect if one wer to query the parents of children who have been nudged out of those "magical" schools, they would have something less than wondrous to say about that particular alleged key to success.
If those advocating on behalf of certain charter school models were a bit more modest and humble about their success others would not respond so defensively. It is akin to a school yard fight: someone says something about your mama and you have to fight back. At the end of the fight, when the dust has settled nothing has changed or been gained.

Posted by: K. MUHAMMAD | February 1, 2008 10:29 PM

YES, THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE FAILING AND HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS. THANK YOU SENATOR HARP FOR YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT. THE CMT'S SHOW THAT AS FACT. ITS NOT ALL TEACHERS ARE BAD JUST SOME BAD EXAMPLES THAT MAKE IT LOOK BAD FOR EVERYONE. PUBLIC SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT, DRUGS, GUNS, DISCIPLINE ISSUES WHERE TEACHERS CANT TEACH AND STUDENTS CANT LEARN BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED OF THE STUDENTS. TELLING STUDENTS 'USE THEIR BRAINS' WHEN THEY ASK QUESTIONS. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THERE FOR IF THEY CANT ASK YOU A QUESTION THAT THEY DONT KNOW ABOUT THE SUBJECT. SAME NHPS LOTTERY, SAME QUALIFIED TEACHERS WITH EDUCATIONAL DEGREES, SAME INNER CITY DRAMA ( SINGLE PARENT HOUSEHOLDS, PARENTS WORKING LATE, WELFARE, LATCHKEY, GANGS, TEEN PREGNANCY.) THE LIST GOES ON. IF YOU KEEP DOING THE SAME THING THE SAME WAY YOU WILL GET THE SAME RESULTS. CHARTER SCHOOLS HAVE THE SAME STUDENTS , THEY JUST USE DIFFERENT METHODS. AND THERE IS A TIME IN A CHILDS LIFE WHEN THE MINDS OPENS AND LETS THE KNOWLEDGE , FUTURE IN. THIS IS AN INTERPRETATION OF HOW I UNDERSTAND THAT EVERYONE DOES NOT INTERPRET THE SAME SO YOU CAN NOT TEACH THE SAME. ALL THE STUDENTS WHETHER PUBLIC OR CHARTER ARE OUR FUTURE. YOU CAN SUPPORT CHARTER AND HELP OR YOU CAN HENDER, ITS YOUR FUTURE AND MINE. ASK A PARENT, TEACHER AND STUDENT ABOUT THERE CHARTER SCHOOL. LISTENING TO INDIVIDUAL WHO DO NOT SUPPORT US LIKE THE NHPS IS WRONG. THESE STUDENTS ARE COUSINS, NIECES, NEPHEWS AND GOD CHILDREN OF NHPS CHILDREN AND THOSE WHO DO NOT SUPPORT US HAVE TAKEN OUR LUNCH PROGRAM FROM US TWO TO THREE WEEKS BEFORE SCHOOL STARTED, TOOK OUR SCHOOL NURSE, AND STILL TAKING OUR TAX DOLLARS. YES I HAVE CHILDREN IN CHARTER SCHOOLS WHICH MY TAX DOLLARS DO NOT EVEN SUPPORT. BECAUSE THE STATE GETS MY MONEY FOR MY CHILD AND MY CHILD DOESNT EVEN GO TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOL. YES A SYSTEM SET UP TO FAIL. FAIL YES BUT NOT ACADEMICALLY SO FAR FINANCIALLY. BUT WE PARENTS OF CHARTER SCHOOLS BELIEVE IN EDUCATION LETS ALL SUPPORT EDUCATION AND PROPERLY PAY FOR EVERY CHILD EQUALLY THEY DO DESERVE THAT .

Posted by: cedarhillresident | February 2, 2008 4:04 PM

Both my kids graduated from New haven schools. I came back to New Haven because of the choose of schools and felt that they would get a better education here. And I think they did. With that said.. Darnell makes a good point it is not about the charter schools it is about the percentage of student that are failing. This is a constant discussion among community members...why is this happening? I can not, as many else feel blame the school system totally. Lets go back 20 years ago (sorry to say that is not to long ago for me) the schools were not so bad. What has changed?? Lack of parental involvement!! It is that simple in my eyes! What makes the better schools in the city better?? The percentage of parental involvement! Not just with the school but in the education of there children. Amastad has made it mandatory that parents are involved. To many parents have, over the years, confused the role of the school system. For some reason they feel it is the job of the school system to raise there children. And if there kids turn out bad it is the schools fault! No, it is that they are not instilling morals and value on your children. It is not the schools job to do that. It is there job to teach READING RIGHTING and RITHMATIC. and when they leave school for the day the parents job is to make sure the have done there homework... it is there job to brainwash their children (as our parents did) that education is there job during this period in their lives, so they can have a future. And don't say I work I don't have the time!! I worked two jobs and found the time! No more excuses! As long as we give people the excuses to get out of there responsible as members of society and let them blame the government and departments of such governments they will never have the purpose and goals to strive for better.
That to me is what some of these charters have figured out. And they are not just educating children they are re-educating adults and giving the purpose and goals. So if that is what is going to work then let is then I do not understand why we would fight it?? If the public school system can not adopt this kind of program with in its walls and these schools are why should the parents not have this choose for there children? I am not blaming teachers or the unions I am blaming the programs that are set up by the system. It is time to change that if you want public schools to continue.
ahead of time I aplogize if I offended anyone with my comment.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | February 2, 2008 4:05 PM

ps Rev just a side not people on line have a tendency to not read comments that are all in capitals it is to hard to read.

Posted by: The Rev. Mr. Samuel T. Ross-Lee | February 2, 2008 5:37 PM

Dear fellow posters, let me apologize for the caps. I initially wrote my comments on a Word document and forgot to change the font from small caps to regular print before I copied and pasted them over here. I was rushing, which might be obvious by the poor editing job I was able to accomplish as well.

I hope that the caps don't stop you for reading my remarks and then commenting on what I wrote. And I PROMISE never to do that again. :)

Posted by: The Rev. Mr. Samuel T. Ross-Lee | February 3, 2008 2:54 AM

Jeff Klaus: So please accept my personal invitation to join me on a tour of several of the ground-breaking charter schools to which you refer. We can make a day of it, maybe even with a reporter in tow to ensure objectivity.

My Response: Dear Mr. Klaus,

Allow me to inform you that as a student at Morehouse College and later as a professional Admissions Counselor post-graduation for one year at the same, I was responsible for giving tours of the campus and am well aware of what a "tour" of the a school is all about. Were my earlier remarks here about the appearance of the campus, the social atmosphere of the environment, or the culture rituals of the school, I would jump at your offer to "join (you) on a tour". But since those things have little or nothing to do with what I'm actually referring to, let me reply with a public, but irenic, rejection of your offer to tour the campuses of the Charter Schools.

What I find most interesting about the offer to tour, however, is that you made it at all. For, this is the type of response you guys always give to the proper criticism that comes from the very inaccurate claim that you and your emissaries insist on making that the New Haven Public Schools and the Charters have the "same kids". You don't. And you know it. That is my central point here, and a walk around the campus will not respond to your false claim or my necessary criticism of it.

And who, pray tell, would this "objective" reporter be anyhow, someone from one of the local newspapers who have sycophantically done your bidding throughout this campaign and debate about the Charter school system here in New Haven? Would it be the reporter from the Advocate who was unleashed to do the front-page hatchet job that they performed on Dr. Mayo, last year, or perhaps it would be the "objective" reporter from the NHRegister who publicly and loudly referred to me as "crazy" because I voiced my irritation and frustration with your front-man for referring to the employees of the Non-charter school wing of the Public School systems as people essentially there just to pick up a pay-check, and whose editor failed to return my call though he promised to do so after receiving several calls to him to complain about that reporter's unwarranted and unprofessional behavior? You will please excuse me Jeff if I don't trust that the New Haven media have been fully objective on this issue.

Klaus: At the end of the tour and after we look at all the student demographics, admission criteria, performance data, and parental data, if you still believe the playing field is so unequal, and more importantly that the motivations of the operators are to dismantle the public school system, please say so loudly on this page.

Me: Now, given my response to your idea about a tour, you might think that I my reaction to the rest of your offer would be more genial. You would be wrong. Not only am I not interested in your offer to tour the campus, but I am even LESS interested in your offer to "tour", if you will, the records you have offered here to show me. I already know what your "student demographics" are; you shouldn't have a separate "admission criteria" to begin with, because the Charters should be taking whoever comes out of the lottery picks, and "performance data" and "parental data" are not the issues I raised in my initial remarks. But, what would be totally awesome to peruse, Jeff, would be the record of students sent away from the Charters by you guys or those who have been encouraged to leave "on their own" under the threat, for example, of being held back one or two grades. Now, THAT would be a worthy tour, or do you not keep records on those students and the reason that they are sent back to the Non-charter school wing of the Public School system. In your false comparison of the Charter schools to the Public schools you are not dealing with a level playing field, Jeff. You know it and I know. You won't say it; I just did. So, I will forego the look at your selected records and preemptorily proclaim "loudly on this page" right now that I think that the playing field is unequal and, further, that the inequality is growing everyday. (Just this time I will not use all "caps" as I mistakenly did before.)

Klaus: For now, I'll make only one friendly correction to your comments. Charter schools ARE public schools.

Me: Finally, your "friendly correction" to my earlier remarks is unnecessary, because I never suggested that Charter schools are NOT Public Schools. In fact, that is PRECISELY my problem with the system. Remember, my complaint is about a "two-tier" Public School system, where some students purposefully are afforded a better education than others, though the public is funding both tiers. This compliant would be senseless if I didn't already believe that "Charter schools ARE Public Schools". The precise complaint here is that the Charter School wing of the Public School system is vying for more money to set up more schools which will continue to create this two-tier system of inequality, and you are using false comments like "we are doing a better job at educating the 'same kids' than the Non-Charters are doing". THAT, Jeff, is where the lion's share of the debate is, and THAT, Jeff, is what you have avoided responding to in your comments here. No tours of the campuses are going to reveal the truth or falsity of that fact to me either. So again, no thank you on the tour thing.

Posted by: vanessa | February 3, 2008 3:42 AM

I must laugh when people say that the children's test scores and test measurement in New Haven are improving.If they are.The incremetal increases are not significant.If one looks at the CAPT scores which are done in the 10th grade I believe.Only 15 or 20 percent of the kids were at grade level.I think that there have been improvements however the great majority of the kids except those whose schools are title 1 and get additional funds are still failing our kids.No one is saying that the teachers and administrators are not trying.What needs to be said that despite the amount of money available many of the kids are not getting what they need to make it in the world.I you ever asked how many of our kids who go away to school which they talk about in June every year are in school a year or two later.It is not that are kids are not smart-The responsibility of we adults are to make sure that we provide the resources and not just for in some cases high priced administrators who are removed for inadequate management but so that these kids can be contributing New Haven residents able to provide for themselves and their future families.Don't be mad at the people who raise the issues be mad at yourself for not developing a better quality product.Someone once told me that you cannot expect the public sector to work like a business.I disagree.Accountability in each one of the schools is important and the management of the schools in spite of additonal resources compared to charter is not very close in terms of resources but cherry picking increased test score minute as those increases might be and based on tests scores and competition would indicate that the taxpayers in this town are not necessarily getting the best bang for their buck unless your kids were lucky enough to be a lottery pick.Test scores are not the be end to everything but anyone can go on the State of Connecticut's Department of Education Web site and look at any school in the City and you can tell what is happening -good or bad.Blogs are great and people can get off on them however the kids are what is important- not somebody 100+ job.New leadership might give the system a shot in the arm that it needs to help our kids be all that they can be

Posted by: K. MUHAMMAD | February 3, 2008 8:49 AM

Thank you also cedarhillresident for the reminder about the caps. I apologize for this. It is understood and I promise to do better. These comments and responses are very considerate and thoughtful. If we had or could adopt this method our students may also learn it. Difference of opinion is healthy, not harmful as we of charter school parents have to hear constantly by the NHPS regarding our achieving students. Differences are what make the world go around, it enables this melting pot of people to be able to live together in the United States as well. Charter schools do ask what are some of the issues that exist in the community for the students but they at Amistad Academy give them what they need to succeed. Whether academically, parental support through our Biggest Jobs. Biggest Jobs are forums that enable our parents and teachers to dialogue and discuss our children success or failure, in home or school. This discussion is done to improve our tri-party relationship (parent, teacher and student), and great teacher trainings which they call Team Building. There are no perfect teachers, students or parents it is only a contractual agreement that all three agree to carry out and if anyone slacks on there part the other two components will aid. We are here for the community and we all need to work together This Is Our Future we are debating over. People died for education, they fought for equality, they fought for justice, they fought for the right to vote and today we have forgotten and we fight to not educate because it is not the way the norm is, it chooses to find solution and give results. Close the mouths and listen with your ears. Please this is our future, it takes a community.

Posted by: darnell | February 3, 2008 1:36 PM

"It is so easy for people on the sidelines ranging from state senators to wannabe mayors to critize the public schools and those that work day in and day out." -- Pat

Pat:

Let's be real clear. I never criticized the people, particularly teachers, who work in the school system. I merely sated facts about achievements, or lack thereof, in the school system. If you believe those numbers to be wrong, then state so, with evidence. If you do not dispute the numbers, why would you continue to endorse a system that produced those failures. What I have said for several years, before my desire to be a "wannabe mayor", is that it is time that we faced up to the fact that our public school system is failing, and begin to look at alternative solutions to correcting the problems. You folks who continue to ignore the problem are getting in the way, and are as responsible for the failures as anyone else. Giving parents a choice, making the school system compete for children, is not THE SOLUTION, but certainly should be part of the solution.

You made other comments that you do not bear out with evidence, as in : 1) "These children live in sub-standard houses with (sadly) only mothers who are disorganized at best, too often substance abusers, have serial boyfriends and are indifferent to their children." Do you mind revealing to us how do you know this? How many of these failing children are from households where the mothers are substance abusers? Have serial boyfriends? Are indifferent to their children? You make some extremely ugly assumptions, let's see the evidence.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | February 3, 2008 5:24 PM

K. MUHAMMAD

It is funny, when I read your above comment I recall when I was in school...because that is what school was. A collaboration. What has happened to that? Where did that get lost? It is so simple. But we need to remember Charters have more freedoms than public schools do, they are tied down more with government rules. This should not become an argument of charter and public the only thing that should matter to any of us is the education of our children in this city.

Posted by: Jeff Klaus | February 4, 2008 1:05 PM

Reverend Ross-Lee,

We HAVE made progress! We do agree on some things. Your characterization of charters as a "wing" of the public schools is a good point.

I also agree with you that the charters DO NOT reflect the exact same kids. Charters for the most part don't have the ESL population that district schools have because of admission process and the burden on district schools to admit any kid at any time. I for one, would be in favor of a state mandate (funded) on charters that require that they also admit kids who show up at any point. Why should district schools have to wrestle with that alone? Perhaps together charters and district schools could set up an immersion academy for recent ESL arrivals. But to your point, currently Charters typically don't enroll kids past the late spring because of their lottery only admission. This is a burden that is unequal and borne by the district.

Media: We could agree on a fair "media escort" if we even wanted to have one.

Admissions: There are no admissions criteria for AF. You seem to infer that the charters have control over who applies. The charters in New Haven participate in the New Haven school choice lottery administered by the BOE. As far as I am aware, the selection is supposed to be random among those who put their names in. Luck of the draw. (Looking at Hooker and Edgewood enrollment, isn't it AMAZING how lucky some folks are?)

Creaming: AF schools do not cream. Period. In fact, the schools would much rather serve the most disadvantaged among us. That is the mission. There are no pre-conditions such as active parents. If you believe that the charters have a built-in bias because of their self-selectivity, you also may be right. However, if you look at the performance data of the incoming students, when they come in in 5th grade they are 2 years below grade level on average. You call that creaming? Also, I think there is an under-appreciated counter-balance to the student demographic issue which has been the practice of the district to "steer" some of their toughest students and to enroll in the lottery with AF as their first choice.

Do some children leave? Yes, but very few and for a variety of reasons. Being managed out is not one of them. AF does have some data around this. You would be given access to it if you cared to see it.

What I want to know is what happens to the kids who enter the lottery but DON'T get into AF schools. It would be an interesting comparison to see how they end up doing in district schools. Based on your assumptions, if charters get the best students in the lottery then presumably when the kids who don't get chosen go back to another district school, they then probably do alright. Maybe you can shake loose some of these stats from the district and we can look at it. Bottom line is that the creaming argument is an erroneous claim that has been making the rounds for years now. I would hope that you would do your best to investigate the accuracy of the claim before you continue to promulgate it.

Two-tier system: Choice is good. Competition is good. What if there was only one bank? I might like it if it were my bank because I know that I would always have a job. But what incentive would I have to deliver great service to customers? The lines would be out the door, the service would be rude, the fees and prices would be out of control because there would no incentive for the bank to improve its customers' experience. The same is true for education. If we don't offer robust alternatives, we will never expect significant improvement from the district.

Presently there are no good choices for low-income parents in New Haven. Wealthy parents have choices because they can move to a suburban district or pay for private school. But what real choices exist for poor parents of color? For all the celebration about the AP courses at Cross, or the magnet school programs in New Haven, how have these raised the academic performance of New Haven's low-income black and latino children? I am a proud Wilbur Cross alumnus, but right now I am not concerned about the success of their AP program or the great education that suburban kids can get in New Haven magnets. These programs are already serving the elite. What about the kids that most folks on this page are talking about? Show me where district schools are providing a good education for poor students of color?

BTW, I am not picking on NHPS only, it is a systemic problem for every urban public district. But the tragedy is that in New Haven we have the resources to be much better, and we don't seem to seize on them.

Funding: I think that money SHOULD follow the child. If more parents choose charter schools, then let them go - and fund them at 100%! It would be up to NHPS to respond competitively. If not, then NHPS should lose it's per pupil ECS funding and be forced to shrink its budget and its personnel. Perhaps if the district had only 12,000 instead of 20,000 students it could deliver better academic outcomes.

I agree that a two-tiered, class-based system as you describe it is not a preferable outcome as part of introducing real competition. But, if we were on the same page, we could come together to ensure that the kids who are not spoken for, the toughest cases, the kids with the least resources, would not be forgotten.

It is unfortunate Reverend Ross-Lee, that you have joined the chorus who rail against providing a better education for thousands of students who could benefit immediately, under the theory that it would not be fair to all. This argument is akin to not sending in any rescue boats when the Titanic sunk because if saved some folks it wouldn't be fair to those poor souls who ended up drowning!

Lastly re: the tour. Sorry you think the tour would be rigged somehow. So if you would like, you may show up to any AF school - on any day - at any time. You will be allowed to walk into any classroom unescorted. I would just ask that upon arrival that you first check in at the main desk and show your ID for security purposes.

Best regards,
Jeff Klaus

Posted by: Nestor Makhno | February 4, 2008 11:04 PM

Jeff:

Maybe in passing you could mention to your girlfriend that the "results" sections for the Amistad schools on the Achievement First website are all under construction and have been for weeks. The website gives good PR, as I think the advertising slogan goes, but would be stronger if the claims were backed up with data.

Posted by: Jeff Klaus | February 5, 2008 8:10 AM

Nestor, Thanks for bringing up the website issue. I am sure the AF folks are working on it. In the meantime, those who are interested in reviewing academic performance data on any public school in the state, can get most current info. at:

http://www.ctreports.com/

or;

www.conncan.org

Posted by: The Rev. Mr. Samuel T. Ross-Lee | February 6, 2008 11:48 AM

Klaus: We HAVE made progress! We do agree on some things. Your characterization of charters as a "wing" of the public schools is a good point.

Me: Mr. Klaus,

I have NEVER said that the Charter Schools are not Public Schools. That is an unnecessary argument YOU put forth. But, hey, if you want to call something that never was an disagreement "progress" be my guest. But it indicates that you STILL don't understand (or choose not to understand?) one of my central points. That being: since the public funds both wings of this system, one should not be better than the other. The students of one wing should not have advantages that the students of the other wing don't enjoy. The two-tier system that I decry in my FIRST posting here is criticized precisely because you and I know that they are both funded by the public and thus both wings are a part of the public school system, albeit, one wing (that would be YOUR wing) had been claiming that they are doing a better job at educating the "same kids" than the other wing. And while you have backed off of that somewhat here and in Senator Harp's statements, you are still not being completely accurate in your claim about the students you have and the students you keep.

Klaus; I also agree with you that the charters DO NOT reflect the exact same kids. Charters for the most part don't have the ESL population that district schools have because of admission process and the burden on district schools to admit any kid at any time. I for one, would be in favor of a state mandate (funded) on charters that require that they also admit kids who show up at any point.

Me: Thank you for finally admitting some specifics around the "same kids" argument, but you don't go far enough here. There IS creaming (your word) at the Charters. There ARE students who are sent back to the district schools under the threat of being held back one or two grades if they stay in the Charters. There are students who you feel can't keep up with your program and you encourage them to dis-enroll and return to the District schools. I know that you may never admit that on this forum or anywhere else, but we both know that that is true. And we both know that this practice gives the Charters an uneven playing field, a context that must be considered when making a comparison between the Charter schools' "success" and the District schools' "failure". The public DESERVES to know the true about this fact, before they get all giddy about the story you spin and the reality of the situation. If you can cream a student body, you can guarantee "success". But the since the Districts schools cannot cream, since they must include the academic outcome of ALL of their students, since they must absorb the behavior, lack of parental involvement, and lack of student motivation of ALL of their students in their final results, it is not fair or even right to say that you are doing a BETTER job, when you are not doing the SAME job. And you're not.

Klaus: There are no admissions criteria for AF. You seem to infer that the charters have control over who applies.

Me: Please copy and paste any one statement (or 2 or 3) that I made that "seem to infer" this. YOU offered to show me your "admission records" after the "tour", remember? I said that I already know what they are. And don't need to see them, since the students admitted should simply be those who were picked in the lottery.

But in your defense against the "creaming" charge, you keep referring to admissions as if that's where the discussion is. Either you have not read carefully what I've written, didn't understand what I wrote, or this is your quixotic attempt to change the nature of the discussion by shifting the focus from what I ACTUALLY said to something that I NEVER said. Creaming is NOT about whom you let it, Jeff. It's about whom you KEEP in. It's not about manipulating the lottery on the front end. It's about pushing some of the students out of the back door when you THINK know one is looking.

Klaus: ...if you look at the performance data of the incoming students, when they come in in 5th grade they are 2 years below grade level on average. You call that creaming?

Me: No Jeff, I do not call THAT creaming. But if those students who come in below grade level are "managed" (a GREAT word, by the way) out because they can't catch up and/or keep up to your standards, if those students are not retained in the Charter program because they bring social issues that you can't, or don't want to, handle, or if, unfortunately, they have parents who are irresponsible and apathetic about their education and they are sent packing back to the District, then I do call THAT creaming. And that is what happens at the Charters in New Haven. It's not about who you let it (admissions); it's about who you keep (retention) AND what you do with the rest, which is send them back to the Districts.
Klaus: Two-tier system: Choice is good. Competition is good. What if there was only one bank? I might like it if it were my bank because I know that I would always have a job. But what incentive would I have to deliver great service to customers?

Me: Another poster on here raised this claim, but I'm glad that you have said it too so that I can address it without getting sidetracked. So let me do so. There is nothing more ridiculous than to raise this simplistic formula when talking about the education of our children. Choice may be good Jeff, but our children are NOT widgets in some industrial factor, or some service offered for sell by a bank. In short, they are NOT ponds to offered up in a game of "competition". At the collegiate level where students pay for their education, let the colleges and universities compete for them, over them and through them, but at the secondary level, we have an untarnished moral obligation to educate ALL of them WELL. The well functioning of our democracy depends on a well-educated populace. For the sake of our nation, we should not allow the illicit infusion of capitalistic competition to taint the education of our children as we see which ones come out on top and which ones we can simply write off as bad products in our sadistic game of "my schools is better than your school". NO, Jeff, competition is not ALWAYS good, and in the attempt to educate our young children properly, it has no place in our thinking. Educating our children is NOT about competition. It's about doing what is right by EVERY one of them. "No Child Left Behind", right Jeff? How can you claim this and hold to the theory of competition at the same time when competition inherently involves leaving something or someone behind, while others get ahead? Competition is good?? NONSENSE.

Finally, to your question about incentive, try this on for size. The incentive we should have to deliver a great education to our children is the knowledge we have of what happens to them and to us when we don't. How about that!

Klaus: It is unfortunate Reverend Ross-Lee, that you have joined the chorus who rail against providing a better education for thousands of students who could benefit immediately, under the theory that it would not be fair to all.

Me: And why would you suggest that a "better education for thousands of students" shouldn't inherently benefit all, especially since the "all" are paying for it.

Klaus: Lastly re: the tour. Sorry you think the tour would be rigged somehow.

Me: I never said that tour would be "rigged", just said that it's beside the point and wouldn't give substantial answers to the critical questions raised here, like if you don't have the "same kids" as the District schools can you continue to make the claim that you are doing a better job based on a comparison of your test scores and those coming from the Districts?

Posted by: Jeff Klaus | February 7, 2008 4:44 PM

Rev.Ross-Lee,

Thank you for your ongoing correspondence.
Here is a quote from your post above:

"THE TWO-TIER EDUCATION SYSTEM IS BUILT INTO THE PRACTICES THAT THE CHARTER SCHOOLS ALREADY USE TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT THEY ARE GETTING BETTER RESULTS FROM THEIR METHODS THAN DO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, "

I am glad that you recognize that charters are public, but your quote clearly leaves the impression that you believe that charter schools are separate and distinct from public schools. Let's not have a Romney-Mcain style debate about what was said when. If we hold a mutual goal (to close the achievement gap) and yet we disagree about how to get there, then it makes little sense to parse words and statements. Lets parse ideas.

Rev. Ross-Lee: "The students of one wing should not have advantages that the students of the other wing don't enjoy."

JK: Excellent point! Why then is it that poor students of color are not being provided the equal education that our constitution guarantees? Just look at the gap between white suburban students and children of color who go to our urban schools. Why, Rev. Ross-Lee are you spending your formidable energy and talent on fighting the urban charters which try to raise the outcomes for low-income children in New Haven?

There is a blatant inequality that has been going on forever based on race, class, and income. This is why this fight is fundamentally about civil rights. Yet you have chosen to join the political attack on the folks who are trying to come up with solutions.

Rev. Ross-Lee: "There ARE students who are sent back to the district schools under the threat of being held back one or two grades if they stay in the Charters. There are students who you feel can't keep up with your program and you encourage them to dis-enroll and return to the District schools. I know that you may never admit that on this forum or anywhere else, but we both know that that is true"

JK: Please assume that I believe what I say. Don't attribute false motives to me. We've met only once, so we don't know each other very well. I don't know what drives your positions other than what you tell me. I have no reason not to believe you, and it would be great if you gave me the same respect. Maybe in the end you will prove me to be naive and ignorant - and just plain wrong. But please, take me at my word that I believe what I say.

While I am sure that there are conversations that happen all the time about a child repeating a grade, these meetings are to get the student the help and reinforcement that he/she needs. What is your view on social promotion? I think it is a very bad thing. We should have grade level exit standards that would determine if a child is ready to move on or not. This would force a school to focus on delivering results, not simply moving a tough case from one class to another.

On creaming: Ok, so we agree that the lottery is blind (with a few exceptions for all those really "lucky" kids who go to Hooker and Edgewood). But, do you really think that the difference in results between Amistad and the average district middle schools could possibly be explained by Amistad kicking out all the tough-to-teach kids? In order to get the results that Amistad does, they would have to kick out 80% of the kids that they admit! It just doesn't happen. This is why I invite you to look at who comes in and who leaves. Your math just doesn't add up.

By the way, if AF systematically sends its toughest kids back to the district as you claim, then that would be repugnant, dishonest, and against everything in which the founders of the school believe. Once again, if you have the data, the proof, the direct testimony from lots of parents that this goes on - please make it public.

Competition: - You mention widgets and industry. I agree. We shouldn't treat kids like cars or tools or industrial products. That is why we should resist the destructive impact of the teachers' unions in our classrooms. Why do we let the teachers' unions get away with negotiating terms that are not in the best interest of children? Why do we only have a 6 ½ hour day? Why not have school year round? Why not insist on stronger measures of accountability in the classroom, and in the administration? By having different models of education delivery, we create strong incentive for the providers to focus on the client (the child). Without choice, we get what you would expect...really lousey results.

Lastly, the tour would be the beginning of hopefully of a productive ongoing dialogue about how the community can make dramatic improvements for kids and low-income families in New Haven.

Lets sit down, go over the numbers, and continue talking.

Best regards,
Jeff Klaus

Posted by: The Rev. Mr. Samuel T. Ross-Lee | February 8, 2008 11:49 AM

Jeff: I am glad that you recognize that charters are public, but your quote clearly leaves the impression that you believe that charter schools are separate and distinct from public schools. Let's not have a Romney-Mcain style debate about what was said when. If we hold a mutual goal (to close the achievement gap) and yet we disagree about how to get there, then it makes little sense to parse words and statements. Lets parse ideas.

Me: Again, NEVER said that Charters are not public schools, but you are right, I did leave "the impression that (I) believe that charter schools are separate and distinct from public schools." And I left that "impression" because they ARE "separate and distinct" from other public schools, which is the point I've been making all along. They are separate and unequal wings of the public school system, and that, sir, is just plain wrong.

Jeff: Why, Rev. Ross-Lee are you spending your formidable energy and talent on fighting the urban charters which try to raise the outcomes for low-income children in New Haven?
There is a blatant inequality that has been going on forever based on race, class, and income. This is why this fight is fundamentally about civil rights. Yet you have chosen to join the political attack on the folks who are trying to come up with solutions.

Me: You have chosen, apparently, to ascribe to the philosophy that ANY response to a bad situation is itself inherently good. There is no dispute that there are some significant ills with the public school system, not the least of which is the will of our society as a whole to educate every student at a high level. But, the fact that problems, significant as they may be, exist does not make your particular solution the right one. And as I see it as one that will lead to even further problems of inequality down the line, I think it is definitely the wrong one.

And you will PLEASE excuse me, Jeff, for not assuming that your paternalistic notions of coming into the inner city and "saving us po' black folks" are the altruistic gestures that you say they are. I see here, Jeff, not an attempt by you to join an effort that is "fundamentally about civil rights", (which, of course, an African-American preacher like myself is suppose to join just because you say that what it is.), but I see here an attempt to create a two-tier system that will serve some well, and others will be underserved. And do you REALLY think it should matter to me on a fundamentally MORAL level that you are helping SOME "poor students of color"? (By the way, are there any "poor students of NON-color" that you are helping here") Do you REALLY think that if you throw up the red herring of race and class and claim to be helping in that context that I and others will overlook the overall effects of your program and the impact that it will have on the entire community of secondary school children, children of ALL races, ALL socio-economic classes, EVERY parental/guardian situation? Try your "I'm just here to help, so you should accept as great any and everything I do" argument somewhere else, Jeff. I'm not buying it. There are SERIOUS flaws in your program. And they have SERIOUS consequences for the future of education here and across the country. That fact needs to be pointed out now. You are trying to "come up with solutions" for a limited few, a limited few that, in the end, might not look anything like the limited few that you are purporting to help now. Hence the use of my "formidable energy and talent on fighting the urban charters."

Jeff: Please assume that I believe what I say. Don't attribute false motives to me. We've met only once, so we don't know each other very well. I don't know what drives your positions other than what you tell me. I have no reason not to believe you, and it would be great if you gave me the same respect. Maybe in the end you will prove me to be naive and ignorant - and just plain wrong. But please, take me at my word that I believe what I say.

Me: I don't need to "attribute false motives" to you Jeff; I can attribute real actions to the charters that you so incessantly support. I may have "positions", but the charters have real behavior, real action that they have taken and that is wrong. You, Jeff, are responsible for that action, as you have chosen to be a spokesperson for them. Frankly, I couldn't care less about your "motives", false or otherwise. I'm concerned about the RESULTS of your actions, results that I don't see as fruitful for the quality education of all students.

Jeff: do you really think that the difference in results between Amistad and the average district middle schools could possibly be explained by Amistad kicking out all the tough-to-teach kids? In order to get the results that Amistad does, they would have to kick out 80% of the kids that they admit! It just doesn't happen. This is why I invite you to look at who comes in and who leaves. Your math just doesn't add up.

Me: "THE difference.."? No, Jeff, but A difference, and a significant one at that. But what is more important about this particular difference is that it goes to what the charters actively do, and what aids it the results achieved, which makes it repugnant and dishonest when you make the claim that you have the "same kids" as, and are doing a "better job" than the district schools.

Jeff: By the way, if AF systematically sends its toughest kids back to the district as you claim, then that would be repugnant, dishonest...

Me: See above statement.

You give on laundry list of things that you consider problems with the district schools. But does helping SOME kids avoid these problems the only (or even the best) way to fix them? I don't think so. If there are solutions to the obstacles that prevent SOME of our children from getting a quality education, shouldn't those solutions help ALL of our children? Or are the needs of the few greater than the needs of whole, i.e. all the students and all of the society that they are being educated to join and serve?

Jeff: Lets sit down, go over the numbers, and continue talking.

Me: Yeah, let's do this pubically.

On the Tour: Let it go Jeff.

Posted by: Jeff Klaus | February 8, 2008 3:19 PM

Rev. Ross-Lee,

Let's let this correspondence drop for now. I don't think anyone else is paying attention at this point. I am sure we will pick it up in the near future on another story.

I'll leave you with one thought though. Instead of the dynamic whereby you are simply attacking and criticizing a specific approach to closing the gap, perhaps you can put forth your own ideas about how we can improve educational outcomes in the New Haven district.

Believe it or not, I'm glad you are engaged in this conversation.

Jeff

Posted by: The Rev. Mr. Samuel T. Ross-Lee | February 8, 2008 6:15 PM

Perhaps you are unaware of the value of critique, but I am. But since you want to use such dismissive language as "simply attacking and criticizing" concerning my comments here, maybe you should have considered the consequences of that approach when your henchmen in ConnCAN were "attacking" and criticizing" the Superintendent and the entire public school system, except, of course, the part that they control.

You've made several comments during this discussion that suggest that you should/can control the nature of this discussion/debate and that I would simply follow along with your suggestion. That's not going to happen, Jeff.

I engaged this conversation without your invitation because I am a citizen of this city, state and nation, and I don't like what I'm seeing as it relates to the unequal education of children, and I don't like what I KNOW is taking place across the country through special interest groups like yours that are attempting to privitize the public school system.

Since 1954, this nation has failed the public school system in as far as it's most disadvantaged citizens are concerned. And an approach to set up ANOTHER two-tier system (a la pre-1954) like the one you are favoring is not the answer to fixing that.

You want to continue this conversation? Then, let's do so in a public forum, where the community can hear what is being said and the public can decided if your system will fix or exacerbate the problem of students in our city and across the nation being treated fairly in the education systems across this land. By the way, don't try to "set up" a forum and invite me to it, expecting that I might show up. If it's done, we'll set it up together.

As far as my ideas to improving the system, I'll give you this, at least. Instead of thinking "Achievement First" why don't you think "Equality and Achievement Together"