New Haven Independent

Posted by: on whalley | January 23, 2008 8:45 AM

So... no more "drop-out" factory concerns then? I'm looking at you, Wilbur and Hill. We've moved on to a more media-friendly concern? One that is just as expensive, with outcomes just as uncertain but just slightly (ever so slightly) more tangible a goal than better education?

That's how it works doesn't it? Whenever there's a real, tough or even impossible problem to solve throw the idiots something shiny to distract them.

I'd rather have my kids in some cold plywood shack that for some reason spews the blackest coal into the air, acid into the sea and nuclear radiation onto playgrounds and get a good education than be dumb and lost in some state of the art hype-funded geo-dome under mercury filled light bulbs.

Posted by: JMAC | January 23, 2008 9:17 AM

While "going green" is important to the future of our city, this initiative is not as important as working to improve the quality education and achievement of New Haven students.

More than technological advances, they deserve to receive an edcation that is guided by an improved system and Board members that are committed to their success.

Posted by: charlie | January 23, 2008 11:08 AM

I don't think you posters understand that in the long run, these programs can save millions of dollars in reduced energy costs. That long-term savings can be used for better educational programs or higher teacher salaries.

Posted by: nfjanette | January 23, 2008 12:58 PM

The product offered by Aegis Energy Services seems like a clever design: natural gas provides fuel for the engine (lower cost, lower carbon output than gasoline/diesel) and they capture much of the heat output and offer it for closed-loop water heating systems. The units are modular and can be used in multiples.

However, it remains to be seen how well they can be integrated into the heating systems beyond pools, and the use of combustion technology, even using natural gas, still has a notable carbon "imprint". A better solution might be this one:

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2006/08/rabbi_on_a_roof.php

Posted by: JMAC | January 23, 2008 1:31 PM

Charlie - the future?

How many children will receive a substandard education in the meantime while we develop a plan for "the long run?"

What happens to them? What do we then say to the children in school now, youth who have dropped out or are at risk of doing so.

Too bad, the future, someday - doesn't cut it.

Posted by: charlie | January 23, 2008 2:51 PM

JMAC, you obviously have a valid point, but by "long-term" I mean a year or two. Investing in things like better insulation can pay for itself in a few months. Given gas prices of $3.50+, would you rather have the city buy a $20,000 school bus that got 10 miles per gallon, or a $22,000 school bus that got 20 miles per gallon?

Also, you ignore the reality, which is that the state reimburses cities for new schools. It does not currently reimburse cities to the same extent for better after-school or educational programs, so if the city wants to expand those types of services, it would be a good idea for them to try to save money on energy costs over the next few years by building more efficient schools.

Posted by: on whalley | January 23, 2008 3:21 PM

@ JMAC,

That's easy. We let them fail. We let all the kids going through these schools in the meantime fail, drop-out, believe that the only two paths to success in life are to become a celebrity/pro-athlete or drug dealer and then their children (of unwed couples many with incarcerated parents few having greater than a middle school education) can struggle at their adult careers to differentiate the Fillet-O-Fish button on the register from the Big Mac button.

Then the children of these "adults" can attend the beautifully new updated "green" schools and magically rise above 2 or more generations of persistent failure to become the cities new professionals.

Seriously Charlie. When has any long-term government plan actually paid off? In my life they all make big promises, attract millions in tax revenue, then putter out while the money gets spent on something else only to be re-evaluated a decade or so down the road to pull in a quick lump of tax revenue then putter out again.

While the government plays their game and profits from our tax dollars thousands of kids go without a quality, what am I saying? "Quality?" I mean minimally acceptable education.

Everyone knows what works for education. Get rid of tenure, cut back the unions, get the government out of the way and allow competition between the schools for your dollar. Attaching the dollar to the student seems to work pretty damn well in Europe as well as in every town across the U.S. that has experimented with vouchers only to have the unions shut their experiment down regardless of how successful the results are.

Not for New Haven. We need RFID on the toilet paper and giant streaming media "smart" boards and "green" power supplies.

The government doesn't care about our kids outside of their potential to be taxed and the teachers certainly don't care more about our kids than they do paid time off and dental plans so why on Earth do we keep looking at government and teachers to make it all better?

Anybody know who Albert Shanker is? Former head of the American Federation of Teachers. This sums up teachers unions nicely:
"When school children start paying union dues, that's when I'll start representing the interests of school children."

Posted by: Teacher | January 24, 2008 6:23 AM

First of all, please do not assume that you know what I care about. I go to work at 7:00 in the morning and stay there until 5:00 every day. I often go in on Saturdays. I spend hundreds of my own dollars every year on my students and my classroom. I spend my summers preparing lessons for my students and rewriting old lessons. I assure you that all of this work has nothing to do with my dental plan. I'm not special either; there are hundreds of other New Haven teachers doing the exact same thing.

So many people like to complain about how the schools aren't working hard enough to educate our children, aren't spending money in the right places to educate our children, aren't spending enought money to educate our children. Let me tell you how I would use the "shiny new objects" that Frank Gentile and HB are hoping to bring into schools.

I teach math, a subject that many people find difficult to understand. With streaming video I can show kids instantly real-world applications of the concepts we are studying. I've tried doing this with the computers and connections I have now, but the connection is slow, and video stops, and kids starting joking about how everything in their school is third-rate. Most of our students in New Haven don't travel much beyond our area, and maybe to visit some relatives back home. With streaming video I can take them on virtual field trips around the world. Maybe this will inspire them to visit other places, to work hard in school so that they can enjoy visit other places, or work in jobs they had never imagined existed.

If you want me to sit in a classroom and drill equations with our kids the way they did when I was in school, then New Haven won't be teaching all of our kids, but only the most motivated students who want to be in school. I have to make math relevant in order to really help all kids understand what I'm teaching and why I'm teaching it.

Posted by: Teacher | January 24, 2008 7:06 AM

I do agree with one thing you say. Why on earth DO we keep looking at government and teachers to make it all better? Go to www.ets.org and look at their study called "Family: America's Smallest School." While there are many variables that cannot be controlled, families can do simple things to help their kids. One action parents can take that has a huge impact is read to their kids. Parents can be involved in their children's schools.

All told, the educational testing service has tracked that family "factors account for about
two-thirds of the large differences among states
in National Assessment of Educational Progress
(NAEP) eighth-grade reading scores."

I'll do what I can in our schools, but lets help New Haven's parents be the best parents possible.

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | January 24, 2008 8:39 AM

"If you want me to sit in a classroom and drill equations with our kids the way they did when I was in school, then New Haven won't be teaching all of our kids, but only the most motivated students who want to e in school"

Dear Teacher,

There must be something to teaching the old way. At least more than 40% of the class graduated. Amazing how we can't give our children the same things that our parents did. Rather than accept responsibility for blowing the job as adults, we compensate by providing shiny objects and new buildings to ease our guilt. Do you think that Chinese and Russian schoolteachers are showing movies to their kids all day? Time to get back to basics, stop molding the system around the child and have students conform to the program, or else. Seemed to work for every generation until we came along!

Posted by: Kirsten | January 24, 2008 1:21 PM

Dear Fed Up with Liberals:
Why don't you just stop bitching about how things are done today in NHPS and sign up to be a teacher? Employ the methods that you suggest (drilling like in the old days) and see if they work to teach kids math. I can assure you that at least in my kids' school, where I volunteer 8 hours a week on top of a full time job, kids aren't watching movies all day. Teachers stay 7-5, are on the floor with the kids, run around town trying to track down parents, and spend a lot of their money on basic classroom supplies like paper and pencils when kids don't have them at home. They employ a variety of methods to teach, including drilling math facts 20 minutes a day in my daughter's 4th grade math class, if that is what works for a particular group of students. Why don't you go to a BOE meeting with your suggestions (they meet the 2nd and 4th Mondays at 6:30 PM) instead of posting them anonymously on a message board? Better yet, why not volunteer? It takes all of us to get involved in a student's education in the instances when their parents can't or won't get involved.

Posted by: Jeff Klaus | January 24, 2008 2:54 PM

Teacher and all,

Movies in school has been a pet peeve of mine for some time now. Last year I asked my 3 kids, who attend Madison public schools (2 high schoolers and 1 middle schooler) to list all the movies that they remember seeing in class over the years. I was floored. Some of these were actually shown repeatedly over the years, or in some cases TWICE during the same year. I am sure that Madison is not alone in this unbelievably unimaginative practice. Are there any teachers or administrators who would care to comment?

Zoolander
Perfect storm
Madagascar
Wag the Dog
Iron Giant
A Christmas story
A National Treasure
Super-Troopers
Heat
Super-Size Me
Not One Less
Hotel Rwanda
Stand and Deliver
Osmosis Jones
Over the Hedge
Space Balls
High School Musical
Phantom of the Opera
Dream Girls
Drum Line
Nixon
Forrest Gump
That Thing You Do
Back to the Future
Shrek
Finding Nemo
Ice Age
Spanglish
Celina
Spiderman
Home Alone
Eternal Sunshine of the spotless Mind

Glory -papers
Stage coach
The grapes of wrath
Apocolypse Now
Troy
The Color of Friendship
Shindler's list
Remember the Titans
I, Robot
Gladiator
A River Run through it.
Hoot

and taped TV shows:
The price is right

Posted by: Teacher | January 24, 2008 3:14 PM

Somehow the drilling did work back in the old days. Here's why. Comprehensive high schools like Hillhouse and Cross were divided into what were basically 3 high schools: college prep, business, and vocational/technical.

The college prep part was for the kids who were going to college. These kids are the traditional kids who do okay with the drilling and taking notes for seven hours straight every day.

The business classes were really secretarial classes, where students learned to work adding machines,typing, stenography, and other skills they would need to be secretaries or clerks. Their "core" classes such as math were usually courses called something like "Business Math."

The vocational/technical track was where students could learn to work heavy machinary, or learn to be mechanics, plumbers, wordworkers, welders, or other things to help them become skilled workers.

In today's age, secretaries and clerks need at least a two-year degree, which means all those kids now need to be prepared for college. Students who took "Business Math" now need to take "college preparatory" courses such as Algebra, Geometry, Trignometry, and Statistics.

While we still need mechanics, plumbers, woodworkers and other skilled laborers, most of our factory jobs are gone away from Connecticut, and the Connecticut Business and Industry Association will tell you that even for heavy industry jobs, they prefer that workers have at least a two-year degree. That's for entry level jobs, such as a tool & die maker, machinist, engineering aide, or mechanical drafter. This means that these kids need college preparatory courses as well.

Additionally, back in the good old days of drill & kill, schools would take all the special education students and put them in a "resource room" all day. (Where I went to school, these "resource rooms" were usually in the basement. Nice.) Students with disciplinary problems were usually included with these kids. Oftentimes one of the reasons these students often had discipline problems was because they couldn't see any good reason to solve for x 50 times in a 45 minute period. A person can't blame them.

By using technology to make math more real and interesting, and to motivate my students to suceed, I can reach all these students who previously wouldn't even cross the threshhold of an Algebra class, and they can all do well there.

In China and Russia and most European countries, these students are told in middle school that they are not "college material" and they go to different schools. Education in China and Russia is a privilege, rather than a de facto right, as it is here in the US. Maybe there is something to the Chinese and Russian approaches, but a whole lot of kids would be left behind if we were to go down that road.

Keep on with your angry tirades. You're really getting a lot done. I'm signing, as I've got a lot of work to do.

Posted by: Teacher | January 24, 2008 3:23 PM

Somehow the drilling did work back in the old days. Here's why. Comprehensive high schools like Hillhouse and Cross were divided into what were basically 3 high schools: college prep, business, and vocational/technical.

The college prep part was for the kids who were going to college. These kids are the traditional kids who do okay with the drilling and taking notes for seven hours straight every day.

The business classes were really secretarial classes, where students learned to work adding machines, typing, stenography, and other skills they would need to be secretaries or clerks. Their "core" classes such as math were usually courses called something like "Business Math."

The vocational/technical track was where students could learn to work heavy machinery, or learn to be mechanics, plumbers, woodworkers, welders, or other things to help them become skilled workers.

In today's age, secretaries and clerks need at least a two-year degree, which means all those kids now need to be prepared for college. Students who took "Business Math" now need to take "college preparatory" courses such as Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry, and Statistics.

While we still need mechanics, plumbers, woodworkers and other skilled laborers, most of our factory jobs are gone away from Connecticut, and the Connecticut Business and Industry Association will tell you that even for heavy industry jobs, they prefer that workers have at least a two-year degree. That's for entry level jobs, such as a tool & die maker, machinist, engineering aide, or mechanical drafter. This means that these kids need college preparatory courses as well.

Additionally, back in the good old days of drill & kill, schools would take all the special education students and put them in a "resource room" all day. (Where I went to school, these "resource rooms" were usually in the basement. Nice.) Students with disciplinary problems were usually included with these kids. Oftentimes one of the reasons these students often had discipline problems was because they couldn't see any good reason to solve for x 50 times in a 45 minute period. A person can't blame them.

By using technology to make math more real and interesting, and to motivate my students to succeed, I can reach all these students who previously wouldn't even cross the threshold of an Algebra class, and they can all do well there.

In China and Russia and most European countries, these students are told in middle school that they are not "college material" and they go to different schools. Education in China and Russia is a privilege, rather than a de facto right, as it is here in the US. Maybe there is something to the Chinese and Russian approaches, but a whole lot of kids would be left behind if we were to go down that road.

Keep on with your angry tirades. You're really getting a lot done. I'm signing off, as I've got a lot of work to do.

Posted by: Kirsten | January 24, 2008 3:39 PM

Regarding the movie issue, at least in my kids NHPS school, they see movies on the half days before December vacation and summer vacation, and in the rare instance when they read the book and then saw the movie (Charlotte's Web and Because of Winn Dixie). They have a new school now with AV equipment that actually works, and the only movies they have seen this year was on the half day before December vacation.

Posted by: Dunnman | January 25, 2008 6:29 AM

Teacher and Kirsten,

I suppose with all this time saving educational equipment, there will be no excuses about testing the kids when you guys are supposed to. Not keeping with the testing schedules is an obvious way of escaping accountability and is very unprofessional.

Posted by: Kirsten | January 25, 2008 9:21 AM

Dear Dunman:
Who said anything about teachers trying to escape accountability? The students at my kids' school take CMT's, CMT practice tests and developmental math and reading assessments when they are supposed to. If you think CMT's are a valid method of holding the teachers accountable, then the teachers in my kids' school are doing what you think they are supposed to do to be accountable for the children they teach.

Posted by: on whalley | January 25, 2008 10:43 AM

CMT's are garbage. Especially since the information isn't acted upon. What's the use of seeing how a student stacks up with the lowest common denominator if nothing changes? There are going to be studious, bookish kids, mechanical and technical kids, charismatic and personable kids, entrepreneurial kids and yes there will be a bunch of kids with no discernible or marketable skills whatsoever.

So you test them all against the bell curve then do what? Nothing. You keep them all locked up in the same building bunched with everyone and hope that maybe at the end of the process they all come out sort of average?

I find it pretty ironic that businesses and trades are raising their educational requirements (so TEACHER says) for entry level work (2 year degrees and what not) while simultaneously the value of that education is dropping. It's sort of like the dollar losing it's value. Everyone wants more but they're worth less while gold can buy the same worth of goods it always has been able to. Where's the "gold standard" for education and who's the clown that took us off Carter, Reagan?

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | January 26, 2008 2:42 AM

Dear Kirsten,

It's not my job to volunteer to teach kids and be a surrogate parent for those who don't care enough about their own children to see them succeed. I pay enough in taxes to leave that to professionals. You ought to be asking the same questions as I do instead of accepting the status quo like sheeple! The school system is not working, and we repeat the same mistakes and expect a different outcome every year while paying for it through the nose. Isn't that the definition of insanity? What the hell is $10,000 plus per pupil buying us these days? More administrators and free school lunches? I challenge anyone to bring a camera crew into a public high school, unannounced, and show the world what really happens in that building during an average day. Time to get back to basics and reverse course on this runaway train before another generation is lost.

Posted by: Kirsten | January 26, 2008 6:37 PM

Dear Fed Up with Liberals:
I guess it is your job to complain about public education and do nothing else. If you are so concerned about your tax dollars and how it is wasted on public education, move out of New Haven. Take your complaints to the Board of Education and do it in person, instead of on an anonymous message board. Go work for CONNCAN and start your own charter school. As for me taking it like a sheep, I am involved in my children's education, and believe it or not, based on their CMT results and their progress in school, they are actually thriving in a NHPS.The teachers at my kids school hear from the parents at least twice a month at SPMT's and they hear it plenty from the BOE about the effectiveness of their teaching methods.

Posted by: NH Parent | January 29, 2008 2:53 PM

Dear NHPS',

David Simon Esq., CEO of Evergreen Energy Solutions was a NHPS student.

Evergreen Energy Solutions is an energy consulting firm that is dedicated to reducing energy consumption and carbon emissions at mid-size to large organizations. They intend to lower carbon emissions by 100,000 tons over the next five years and through their charitable arm, The Evergreen Foundation, they will donate 10% of profits to local environmental groups.

To learn more, check out their web site at www.evergreensolves.com. You can also read a recent newspaper article about them at http://www.tahoebonanza.com/article/20080111/BUSINESS/262051146