New Haven Independent

Posted by: Da Hill | March 21, 2008 2:28 PM

I'm sorry...I can't stop laughing....wait.

"Some people may have had unrealistic expectations about how hot the shelters would get, Miller said. They're not designed to "go up to 70 degrees," but rather to take the chill off. They're still open to the elements, not an enclosed, confined room."

Let me get this right, the city spent 1.15 million dollars on heated and lighted bus shelters and my expectations are unrealistic for it to keep me heated and lighted. I completely understand why the city doesn't want people talking to the press. That has to be dumbest statement ever. I like bill a lot, but that was not a good representation at all.

However, it is in compliance with how the city operates...just because you elect us to protect and serve your interest doesn't mean we can protect or serve your interest. You can't make this stuff up!!!

Posted by: robn | March 21, 2008 3:22 PM

I think its unfortunate that the city didn't budget in free refreshments and back massages for bus shelter occupants. Think of the dissapointment this youngster must have felt.

Posted by: Maria | March 21, 2008 4:03 PM

Heating the bus shelters sounds like a very humane and responsible idea. It may also encourage people to use public transportation instead of staying in their nice, warm cars during the winter.

Posted by: Fairhaven Dave | March 21, 2008 5:12 PM

Complain all you want about the efficiency of the stops, but even the Subways in NY, NY get too cold or hot depending on the weather. It's the price we pay for having fresh air. Spending tax dollars on heating these things is wasteful regardless of design.

Wear a coat and warm socks for gods sake; and apply some common sense to your commute. Riders I have seen bitching about the bus system are the same idiots commuting in a jean jacket, sweat pants, and flip flops in the dead of winter.

Posted by: James | March 21, 2008 5:22 PM

A) It was a huge waste of money in the first place and reeks of fiscal mismanagement.

B) Quit bitching. You got a heated bus stop.

Posted by: johnny jersey | March 21, 2008 6:14 PM

Perhaps we could solar heat/cool these things?

Perhaps we could thermal heat/cool these things?

Perhaps we could dump the trolley loop which is completely worseless. Spend that money to buid three sides to these bus stops.

Can't believe we don't have a 21st century design somewhere? What I find amazing is no matter where you stand by a bus stop it is windy. The ones on Chapel are really lame.

Oh, and is there a no smoking ban by the bus stops???

Posted by: Newhavenmania | March 21, 2008 7:08 PM

Da Hill,

What's so absurd with the employee's response? Because the city can't heat the bus shelter up to 70f means that it has fallens short of it's duty to protect and serve you? Clearly, your sense of entitlement and canned responses to all things city related is what is dumb.

Posted by: Ned | March 22, 2008 9:50 AM

Maybe the city can hire someone to stand in the bus shelter with a blow dryer? (run from an extension cord from the mayor's house) - the result would be about the same, and it would probably be more efficient and cheaper in the long run...

Posted by: Mr. Ironic | March 22, 2008 10:13 AM

Yes,

And as I drive by these people in my car (which alone uses more energy than heating one bus stop used by hundreds of people), I wonder why aren't they wearing heavy coats (like the ladies in the photo -- look at the windbreakers they have on). Because I mean everyone wearing a jean jacket is complaining loudly (to someone in some forum unnamed).

And the city spending the federal government's money on a project which benefits the working class and poor while possibly encouraging greater use of mass transit is pointless when they could be lowering our taxes (even if the city could not use this money to lower our taxes and it would have been used by a city in another state for something similar if New Haven had not used it).

And so what that the new busstops which don't face the prevailing wind don't have this problem, that's no reason to try to solve the problem in these bus stops by making some adjustments. I say rip them out.

(Even if this means fewer people ride mass transit in the end, allowing our forward thinking state government to again reduce the number of buses, making the system less reliable and ensuring that fewer people use it.)

Posted by: jt | March 22, 2008 10:59 AM

what about New Haven wanting to be a greener city?? how can New Haven even pretend that they want to be a greener city if we are trying to warm up the outdoors. global warming is a real threat, we don't need to help it along. This is the craziest thing that this admistration has ever done, and they have done some really crazy things.

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | March 22, 2008 2:32 PM

I just can't wait for Ned's response!

Posted by: JSJ | March 22, 2008 10:08 PM

When the bus I was riding home on Friday afternoon passed the Church St. bus shelters, I noticed that one of them contained a bench full of what appeared to be sleeping vagrants and the glass walls had been defaced with red marker. What a wonderful way to promote bus ridership.

Posted by: KAM B | March 23, 2008 12:39 AM

And we wonder why our taxes are so high?!

Posted by: Edward_H | March 23, 2008 10:19 AM

Just curious. How many , if any, NHI readers used the heated bus stops as the deciding factor that made you use public transportation instead of driving or know someone who does?

Posted by: Fairhaven Dave | March 23, 2008 6:06 PM

Mr Ironic,

After the grammar portion of my brain recovered from multiple readings of your post, I was left confused regarding your stance on this issue.

I ride the bus quite frequently, but only due to gas prices, parking prices, lack of parking, and the influx of dangerous drivers.

While I am ON the bus I primarily hear two things: unintelligible youngsters cussing/rambling; and complaints about the temperature. Too hot, too cold, etc.. Nine times out of TEN I notice these people wearing clothing which is completely impractical, jean jacket / windbreaker or not. Note the ladies lack of a warm hat?

While I appreciate the fact you find me devious enough to warrant a complex scheme which will bring about the end of public transportation for the "working class" and "poor"; I, a working class citizen, cannot help but wonder if your tirade was a sarcastic attack or just misaligned rambling directed at a comment about common sense.

I look forward to your retort.

-Fairhaven Dave

Posted by: Da Hill | March 23, 2008 8:40 PM

Newhavenmania

"Da Hill,
What's so absurd with the employee's response? Because the city can't heat the bus shelter up to 70f means that it has fallens short of it's duty to protect and serve you? Clearly, your sense of entitlement and canned responses to all things city related is what is dumb."

I think you should read my post again...my point was that the city spent over a million dollars on these great shelters that dont function...to have a city employee responsible for the development of these shelters making a statement about how unrealistic the goals of the bus riders are to expect for them to be both heated and lighted. There is no expectation of entitlement, just an expectation for the city to act as a responsible representitive of our needs. You apparently like to be told one thing and then given another, you are exactly what the city needs and wants. A yes man/woman.
I dont think the shelters are necessary at all, that money which was 1.5 million bucks,before fees and the like came out, could have cleaned and repaired damn near all of the shelters in the city, but instead we get 4/5 super shelters that dont work. So if the city is going to spend money on a project...pardon me for expecting it to work...the entitlement reference is priceless. I am entitled to have a honest and smart government, not this crooked destefano way of running things.

Posted by: walt bradley | March 24, 2008 12:40 AM

I hope this puts to rest the grand visions of New Haven putting together a light rail (trolley) system without completely bankrupting the city. We can't even string together a single bus line with rain shelters, let alone a few heated spots to wait for the bus.
Most big cities have a centralized transportation center where folks can wait in reasonable comfort for their transfer busses, we've got several scattered spots where people are expected to hang out hoping their bus will appear at some point. I hope the state and city can stop hating each other just enough to actually work on improving the true issues that keep new haven from being an effective mass transit community, but i neither see nor feel any effort from either the govoner's nor the mayors office to stop screwing the commuter. I think a time out for both is appropriate.

Posted by: Transit User | March 24, 2008 7:02 AM

Insulting bus riders is insulting citizens who help reduce traffic congestion, air pollution and
global warning by using mass transit. Mass transit use btw was an essential component of the 1970's green/energy conservation movement until racism and elitism made local buses "loser cruisers."

I did not see any attempt to survey bus riders as was done in marketing research studies I worked on for the Urban Mass Transit Administration to
see if such shelters were any kind of priority to them. Instead bus riders were patronized by policy makers who do not ride buses and have little clue as to bus ridership issues especially almost nonsensical routes, schedules and bus hub transfer locations.

These planning failings cause bus riders to come downtown when they otherwise have no need to--as to lacking cross-town routes and outer ring service and connections recommended in the 2000 ConnDOT Bus Study--and wait downtown to transfer buses longer than they would need to otherwise.

The only beneficiaries of the these $300K apiece
bus shelters are the companies that worked on them.

Posted by: MORRIS COVE MF | March 24, 2008 10:34 AM

"1.15 million dollars on heated and lighted bus shelters"? Wow, I guess I don't shop where the city shops. For this much money, we could buy all the cold commuters a coat, hat, scarf, gloves, and pair of boots, each. I understand that many people who ride public transportation cannot afford heavier winter clothing, but heating bus stops seems ridiculous, as it is a temporary solution. The heat fades within seconds! If the city needs help with it's budget, I'd be happy to knit hats and scarves for all the commuters who are too cold...and for less than "1.15 million dollars". -A Cheap, Practical, New Englander

Posted by: Bill Saunders | March 24, 2008 11:39 AM

The funny thing about all of these posts is, not ONE of you experts purports to have visited these bus stops and has a first hand account of their efficacy.

I made a quick run through on Friday night, after the bluster died down, and there is literally zero difference between the inside and outside temperature. Sure, we all know that pigs don't fly, but sometimes you need to break out the binoculars and look.

Posted by: nfjanette | March 24, 2008 11:52 AM

The only beneficiaries of the these $300K apiece
bus shelters are the companies that worked on them.

Funny how that works in New Haven.

Posted by: JJ | March 24, 2008 7:45 PM

Just thought I'd remind all of you that the city did not pay for the shelters it was a federal grant. As far as the heat who cares maybe the cold will keep the poor people out of downtown.

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | March 25, 2008 8:02 AM

JJ

And where do you think the money comes from to make up federal grants?

Posted by: on whalley | March 25, 2008 8:17 AM

So where did that grant money come from JJ?

It either came from peoples taxes or it was printed magically out of thin air as the fed is known to do lately.

Do you pay federal taxes? Do you attempt to purchase goods with the U.S. dollar? If so either of those two sources of the grant hurt you.

It's okay if you don't care about the taxes I pay or the value of my currency but I certainly care about the taxes you pay and the value of your currency. I have a big heart like that.

Posted by: Da Hill | March 25, 2008 8:26 AM

JJ,

You are right that the funds came from the feds, but the city had discretion as to how it was used. As for your callus approach to the cities poor, well we cant cure ignorance in a blog...

Posted by: J. Hart | March 25, 2008 12:50 PM

Bill-

We had an early-morning evacuation of our building, so I decided to try a heated bus stop to keep warm. Corner of Temple and Chapel. It was by no means toasty, but it most definitely took the chill off and would be most welcome on a cold winter day. If it were any warmer it would require people taking off their coats, which would defeat the purpose.

I do happen to think that the city mismanaged resources when they decided to spend money on these bus stops, but in my limited experience they do work as designed.

-J

Posted by: jj | March 25, 2008 4:19 PM

I agree that its a waist of federal money but many of the above posts were directed at NH taxs and waist when its federal money.

Da Hill I wouldn't call it ignorance i just don't like poor people. they urinate in public, tag everything in site, make noise at all hours of the night, contribute nothing to the tax base, and then complain that the bus shelters aren't warm or that a lot off the green isn't being used to build a rec center so they can get together and shoot each other in a more central location. Its just crazy to care if they are comfortable.

Now if you want to spend money to move all the bus stops to state street or maybe temple street on the green let me know where to donate.

Posted by: Bill Saunders | March 26, 2008 6:54 AM

J. Hart,

That may be your experience -- I take your word for it. From my end, I am pretty sensitive to a few degrees temperature difference in my own house, (which I do keep cold) and I would think that I would notice that difference outside, when I am indeed chilly.

If you were at the bus stop during the day, I might suggest that it had something to do with passive solar radiation.

Posted by: Bill Saunders | March 26, 2008 7:13 AM

JJ,

Don't judge people based on their economic position. Not only is it bad manners, it DOES show ignorance on your part. As much as you think you might know, you NEVER really know the individual circumstances of the humans you are denigrating. So lighten up and be a little more tolerant of your fellow man. Addressing grievances about the power structure is a different story entirely.

Me, the atheistic cynic, who feels little hope for humanity's long term occupancy of this planet, had an interesting experience the other day. On Monday morning I found an orange plastic easter egg on my front lawn in 'the hood'. Inside it was a dollar bill (now even more devalued).

And I thought, "I haven't even heard the word 'kindness' since this mad war started."

Take this as a Parable.

Posted by: Da Hill | March 27, 2008 8:32 AM

JJ,

Your issue may not be with poor people necessarily, but with Yalies, New Haven University, and Quinipiac Students...Late at night, downtown, they are the ones who make noise at all hours of the night, who contribute nothing to the tax base, and who decide to relieve themselves where ever possible after a night of drinking and pillaging the downtown and surrounding areas. So your issue may not be with the poor but rather your own kind...Richie Rich the SNOB.

Posted by: Fairhaven Dave | March 28, 2008 12:11 AM

Rich brats on drinking binges have been the backbone of our local economy for years now! How can you claim a person buying multiple $12 mixed drinks, greasy late night food, and driving in circles burning gas doesn't contribute to the tax base?

I'm not saying I like it, but make sure you don't poop where you eat.

Posted by: Transit User | March 28, 2008 4:59 AM

I live downtown and it is the youngsters (who often seem too underaged for the bars they patronize) who cause the noise and littering problems downtown. Bus riders are long gone out of the downtown by then.

Well, when all is said and done, folks writing for and supporting this online paper are all for environmental issues and the presidential candidacy of Senator Barack Obama. However, their knowledge of truly serious bus rider issues (no heat in these shelters for a handful of people at five bus stops is not one of the most important ones) and attitudes towards bus riders whether it be patronizing or outright racist and hostile seems hypocritical at best.

And where is the link to CTRides.com on the community links section that gives information for all CT mass transit systems?

Posted by: robn | March 29, 2008 8:43 AM

Forgetting for a moment, the high price tag of the bus shelters, and the question of whether the concept of heating the shelters is humane (or not) and the question of why Yankee ingenuity can't summon up a warm coat on a cold day....NO structure without a well sealed airlock vestibule should be heated because without the airlock, the heat dissipates very quickly. This is wasteful of tax dollars and ignorant of our global energy crisis.