New Haven Independent

Posted by: on whalley | April 4, 2008 8:53 AM

So it's a black market for spray paint they want then?

We're going to have to register every can sold to an adult. Limit it to one can per month so they can't be bought in bulk and resold. Ban internet sales of spray paint. Require every adult who has a lawfully registered can of spray paint to notify police if it is stolen of missing within 24 hours. Demand every shop outside of a given area card all customers trying to buy spray paint so kids don;t just take the bus to Hamden and buy it. Maybe just ban travel to Hamden by minors? Then there's the idiot skater friends I have in their 20's and 30's who do this same thing. What of them? Ban "skater-types" from purchasing spray paint? Well, that's profiling, isn't it? Let's get the ACLU in here to sue the city for those damn bus stops since we have no funds for a court battle.

Is this stupid enough yet? Should I keep going? What is wrong with everybody? Is it solar flare activity? Fluoridation? Prescription meds? All the bars? Reality television? Too many fancy ivy-league degrees and cheese parties?

I can't take it anymore. For the love of god you can't keep moving in this direction of such intense stupidity. It's like a damn cartoon out there that isn't in the slightest bit funny. Maybe if it wasn't costing me any money or freedom I could laugh but it's costing me both money and freedom. Two things I do not appreciate losing to the stupidity of others.

Posted by: jdavis | April 4, 2008 9:00 AM

I am amazed that the city hasn't banned spray paint to minors yet. The entire new haven area if not the state should do this. To me this is a no brainer, and the fact that it hasn't been done already is laughable. Also they are not "artists" they are idiots.

Posted by: Alan | April 4, 2008 9:33 AM

They should try a Mural Arts program like in Philly:
http://www.muralarts.org/about/

"The Philadelphia Mural Arts Program (MAP) started in 1984 as a component of the Anti-Graffiti Network (PAGN), a city-wide initiative to eradicate destructive graffiti and address neighborhood blight. As part of this effort, PAGN hired mural artist Jane Golden to reach out to graffiti writers and to redirect their energies to mural-making. Mural-making not only helped these young men and women develop their artistic skills, but also empowered them to beautify their neighborhoods. In 1996, the City of Philadelphia recognized MAP as a program distinct from the Anti-Graffiti Network. At the same time, MAP established a non profit organization, The Philadelphia Mural Arts Advocates. The Advocates have a broad mission of youth development and neighborhood revitalization through the arts.

The Mural Arts Program has produced over 2,700 murals throughout Philadelphia--more murals than any other city in the world."

http://www.muralarts.org/about/

Posted by: Edward_H | April 4, 2008 10:05 AM

Why not use some prisoners to clean up this mess. Let them do something useful for a change instead of causing distress to law abiding people and soaking up tax money.

Posted by: pedro | April 4, 2008 10:40 AM

I'm OK with a spray paint ban to minors. that will certainly curb but not obviously completely solve the problem.
The general trend of vandalism to property is obviously something which needs to be addressed from the bottom up.
Alan, I think that the mural arts program will definitely also help, although it seems that most graffitti in new haven consists of tagging your name or sign on as many places as possible. I'm not sure if those kids would actually be motivated to be creating art, but I think a program such as that has value.

I do also think that perhaps LCI should go through and locate graffitti hotspots and figure out ways to curb it in those areas.

For example, make highway sound barriers harder to reach, increase the lighting on pedestrian and road bridges so that you can't tag under cover of darkness.

Raising as barriers to the point where it's just not worth it will hopefully result in a significant reduction of graffitti in the city.

Posted by: JMAC | April 4, 2008 10:57 AM

A law prohibiting the sale of spray paint to minors is a poor solution!

First of all - to take that approach criminalizes young people. We cannot blame them for all of the tagging and graffiti in our city. This also is an abuse of power - if we did the same for adults, would this new law pass?

It is not enough for business owners to complain about senseless tagging of gang signs - what is the real issue hear? That someone has to pay for a wall to be re-painted or violence among youth in our city? Address the underlying issue. This needs to be identified and approached by everyone - not just the police.

Also why penalize businesses which sell spray paint to minors? The business is not responsible for they way that product is used.

Graffiti is an art. It is not a "communicable disease"

If anything, we need a public education campaign for everyone - business owners, parents, youth, teachers, alder people - that will raise awareness of graffiti as an art form and create the space to validate and appreciate this culture.

There are also too few spaces in the city for this to happen legally. Whether public art spaces or commissioned walls.

Thank you, Alan for linking us to Mural Arts in Philly. There is also a great organization in NY called Groundswell.

Link to Groundswell here.

Posted by: Bill Saunders | April 4, 2008 11:04 AM

I believe if you are a downtown business, Town Green Special Services will remove your graffiti.

The 'Arts Council' seemed so thrilled about 'urban art' a couple years back, when it made a good news story (Grafitti Jam, I believe it was called), but I guess old biddies armed with spray cans is a bad image for them.

Last year at Ideat Village, however, Channel One (on State St.) did sponsor a skateboarding exhibition in Pitkin Plaza, which included the creation of over seventy feet of graffitti writing (on canvas). The artists really went to town, and created some beautiful work.

Currently, there is a 'free wall' for writers on Water Street that the city set up many years ago, that appears to be self-regulating. More options like this in other neighborhoods need to exist -- there is certainly no lack of wall space -- (hint, hint Artspace and your subsidized 'Sculpture/Bus Stop Park').

Posted by: jdavis | April 4, 2008 11:38 AM

I don't understand why people are opposing this. I can't think of any reason a minor would want to buy spray paint, unless they were using it to tag a building. if it's for something else, have their parents buy it for them, and make them responsible for their actions.
JMAC why would this be penalizing the businesses? So they can't sell spray paint to minors... is this really a large market for them? Even if it was, maybe that's the reason our city, buildings, and bridges continually get painted on. This is not art, its destruction of other people's property. It's illegal, it's an eye sore, and its off putting to visitors.
Banning won't stop it, but it should slow it enough to allow us to keep up with painting over it. Every week Comcast on chapel gets littered with spray paint, and they paint over it. Next week the same thing happens. Obviously the cops aren't going to stop it, so the city needs to stop selling paint to the kids. Stop it at its source.
And I also don't think this is criminalizing the youth of this city, it's just a reality. I don't think many middle aged men are roaming the streets with paint.

Posted by: DEZ | April 4, 2008 12:05 PM

I have to disagree with the paint ban. Where does it stop? I think each business that sells paint should be notified about the issue and take it on a case by case basis. I know of many grocery stores which limit the number of cartons of eggs they sell to minors on the days leading up to mischief night. Why can't this be the case with paint? Let the business choose whether or not to allow the sale of a considerable amount of spray paint to a minor. I have to admit that this cyclic issue has hit a mania on lower Chapel Street as of late. I think business owners and homeowners alike should be educated that they are being used. Much like a male dog will mark his territory, these people are being 'urinated' on by spray paint wielding kids marking some invisible territory. If you put it in those simple terms, who would want to go around with someone elses urine on them? (I'm not judging here...;)Clean it up quick! Another point to pontificate on...tagging is far from graffiti in the artistic sense. It may blossom into graffiti with talent and practice, but it's just an ugly nuisance by talentless individuals. Practice in your own back yard until you get it right! Don't allow yourself to go about doing nothing while these tagging 'dogs' urinate all over you!

Posted by: JMAC | April 4, 2008 12:22 PM

What do you see when you look at that wall?
(photo above)

Read the writing on the wall. I see two crews - are they repping, marking territory, or just bored?

Which is the bigger issue: vandalized businesses or a lack of outlets for our youth?

We need to be asking these questions. Why are youth throwing that up? What do business owners see when they look at it? Is all they see a cost?

We need to see each other - people. After all, these businesses are a part of the community too. They should be as invested in our youth as they are in painting over graffiti.

Were there any young people at that community management team meeting? Are youth a part of this dialogue and able to advocate for themselves?

When people are concerned about preventing the sales of spray paint to minors, what message are we sending to our young people? What kind of relationship does this foster?

Posted by: cedarhillresident | April 4, 2008 12:39 PM

Bill Saunders
Water Street Wall some work that has been on it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKy2NnWIzMc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqLgiUv5FEk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRR8WM7vAZE

There are a few legal walls around new haven. It is just a matter of getting the word out to the taggers (Which "Pedro" pointed out is a different art than graffiti and wall art). There is one on the side of the ice skating rink but you have to walk a bit and under a bridge. And there is an art to it. If in the right place.

My area has been plagued with tagging and hate graffiti. The parks dept has a new thing called the "tag-o-nator". and we go out and sand and paint when we can.

Posted by: on whalley | April 4, 2008 12:57 PM

re: the legal walls

It defeats the purpose to "tag" territory if it's on some legal-to-tag wall. There's no point in it. Who cares if anybody can go do it? The prize is in tagging something out of reach or something very public where you could be easily caught. The complexity and placement, the time you had to be there to get it done without being caught, those are the prizes.

For the petty dog-piss like marking of territory thugs out there they do it for the same reason a man beats a woman. For control. To denote ownership. Do any of those things still apply on a legal wall?

As far as having something for kids to do besides perpetuate pointless and petty territorial feuds goes you can't. This goes back to the teens last week and their report on using the space downtown for some sort of "after school" space. At the risk of being called racist for some unapparent reason I'll ask again: what will prove a more attractive activity to thugs and criminals than thuggery and crime?

I suppose if every wall and structure were suddenly "legal" to deface and nobody cared one way or the other as in some mass ignore approach the value of the tags may be reduced somewhat but that will only increase the value of the clean space that is left un-tagged. You'd have these kids shooting each other to get a mark down on the last clean wall in the city.

Posted by: eastshoreguy | April 4, 2008 1:05 PM

" it would make more sense just to leave it alone and not repaint."

Huh? What is Steinhardt thinking? Ya it stinks that it gets tagged again, but we just cannot leave grafitti up as it just invites more grafitti.

I think the mural idea is great! Perhaps we ought to hold a competition for all these taggers to do something positive like paint out city garbage trucks or something.

But leaving up grafitti is something slum lords do because they just dont care.

Posted by: Bill Saunders | April 4, 2008 1:25 PM

Cedar Hill,

Nice videos. Some really beautiful art.

Believe me, I am very anti-vandalism. But then there is also what is termed "graffiti removal art" -- the abstract rectangular patches of mismatched color that adorn many underpasses and other graffiti hot spots. Personally, I'll take the writers. Sandblasting might be a better option.

http://www.rodeofilmco.com/films/video_graffiti_removal.php

Posted by: cedarhillresident | April 4, 2008 2:54 PM

We will be Vaselineing our stop signs soon to stop the "STOP SNITCHING" being painted on them...thanx to Chris O. for that helpful hint. Lubing sign...that is what I thought I would be spending a spring day doing??? :0

We have this one kid taging like crazy over here and from exit 2 through 8 on the sound baires They need to catch him....I would say he is reach 100,000 in damge.

But Bill you don't think the squares have a great retro look to them :)

Posted by: Bill Saunders | April 4, 2008 3:30 PM

Cedarhill,

I'm not a big fan of Mondrian, either, but it least he used primary colors.

As for the the "New Law", I think back to my more youthful days, buying spray paint at the hobby shop to decorate my Glow-in-the-Dark Aurora Monster Models.

Of course, back then 'Count Draconian' was missing from my collection. Still is, for that matter.

Posted by: Advocate for vandalism | April 4, 2008 9:53 PM

Apparently the New Haven Advocate is pro vandalism:
http://www.newhavenadvocate.com/article.cfm?aid=7019

Posted by: unprotected | April 5, 2008 2:50 PM

that first pic, jmac shows two gangs we don't have in the city, "Island and MOB in green(bloods) and DA or dead angels and FS or fair side 2X in red. looks like we are claiming turf. also looks like Island was covered by DA to dis them or challenge them

Posted by: Chris | April 5, 2008 9:40 PM

Tag the tags with pink pansies stencils or funny tag lines-

Posted by: cedarhillresident | April 6, 2008 9:30 AM

First....Chris... I love it! We need a ninja tagger..to go around town and take the "cred" away from them...

Although Bill I did just watch the video... and it really does bring a different way of looking at the squares. Said to say we are stuck with them... but in spots that do have them we can become more creative on the squares. Maybe a few different shades and add a few different sizes ect. to make them more visually appealing.

.... and yes I know you want to ask....that was me you saw the other day on chapel.

Posted by: Bill Saunders | April 6, 2008 10:07 PM

Cedarhill,

You know, I'm can be pretty oblivious when I'm trotting around downtown. I was probably going to Channel One to talk to the owner about this years graffiti/dj event for this years Ideat Village, and make him aware of the ensuing 'tagging' dialog on this site. Next time stop and say hi. After all this time posting, it would be nice to attach faces to pseudonyms.

Posted by: bugupit | April 6, 2008 11:29 PM

You know how to get into a bar without ID people can sign a paper saying they are 21? Have minors sign a paper saying they understand use of the paint for tagging is illegal.

Crackdown on those doing the crime, not the supply of a household item. I assume SOME kids in this sometime cesspool of a city are still creating art, I mean real art, not damaging property which is not theirs, or creating carpentry, crafts or even painting their own belongings, other than changing the color of a stolen bicycle of course.

Well heck, through typing this I have changed my mind. If I have to take my shoes off at the airport because of some idiot Sneaker Bomber then No Teen In America should be able to buy spraypaint!! We'll call in the "Waldo Was Here
act.

Posted by: The Defender | April 7, 2008 11:46 AM

Once again we find ourselves entertaining useless laws impossible to enforce dreamt-up by politicians looking for a silly vote, or the "look at me I'm making a difference in my community."

If you really want to stop the nuisance of "Tagging" then you need to look at the "writing on the wall." You have to ask yourselves, what is being said and represented in this "tag" and who is doing the tagging. These questions will answer the "why" and the "who" by identifying the gang writing them. Also, by studying these types of tagging it will serve as intelligence information for law enforcement.

Here is what I mean: if you look at the "tag," as unprotected had articulated, you going to see several gangs involved. The underlying gang who appears to be the first "tagger" was "ISLAND" followed by "MOB." "ISLAND," an old and once violent gang in New Haven, known as the "ISLAND BROTHERS" did exist in the late 80's to early 90's. This gang was established in Fair Haven's Quinnipiac Housing Projects on Front Street now known as the "Skittles" because of its multicolor facet. "MOB," which stands for "Money Over B#%!," and made famous from an old rap song by "2-Pac" and a remade by a group call OGK, has a direct connection as a set to the "BLOODS."

The second step to this equation is the second "tagger" who identifies himself as "DA FS," I'm not sure if I agree with unprotected indentifying "DA" as "Dead Angels" however "FS" is in fact a Fair Haven neighborhood gang called "FAIRSIDE." In addition, you also have to look at the color of spray paint being used. DA FS is painted in red which is the color of choice used by BLOOD members for obvious reasons. And the last step of this equation is the "taggers" signature identified as "LIL-B" or "Little B."

Keep in mind this is only a brief explanation of what is written on the wall which leads me to my final conclusion, WHY IS IT THAT THE NEW HAVEN POLICE DEPARTMENT DOES NOT HAVE A GANG INTELLIGENCE UNIT. Based on what is being written on the wall it is obvious that the written is indicative of GANG activity which will ultimately lead to GANG violence on the streets of New Haven.

Hence, if you are enjoying those low numbers of shooting incidents in New Haven this year compare to last years', then don't.

Lastly, one should never confuse a "taggers" work with that of mural painter; they are two differently motivated individuals. One expresses disrespect, violent intentions and claims territory from other gangs and the other simply paints as a way of taunting society, law enforcement and expressing inner feelings of discontent or just simply artistry. Furthermore, banning spray paint will do nothing to curb the "tagging" just like gun restriction has done nothing to stop the gang violence. If you want to stop tagging then law enforcement needs to look at the root of the problem which is undeterred and unidentified gang activity.

Posted by: Bill Saunders | April 7, 2008 3:02 PM

Good Post, Defender.

Posted by: unprotected | April 7, 2008 3:29 PM

hey defender, ride around the FAIR SIDE, and look for dead angels, most of them are now on mitchell drive or blatchley before state st and are changing to DA because its quicker. PD caught 3 taggers in the 3 weeks. we did a good job piecing together the last arrest, but the first two got caught in the act

Posted by: cedarhillresident | April 7, 2008 4:57 PM

The Defender
Wow thank you at least I know what I am looking at!

Posted by: Davenewhaven | April 7, 2008 6:35 PM

If Alder Sturgis-Pascale and Rodriquez really want to reduce graffiti in New Haven, then give the Police and the Courts some legislation that involves the parents and their minor children.

Legislation that forces the parents to work with their children and social service departments.

Legislation for the graffiti issue that will enforce responsibility on the parents to be accountable for their children's actions.

When New Haven police use their skills to identify the Tags and the children that spray-painted them. Their hands are tied until the kids can be caught in the act of vandalism.

Next, the court system does not have good tools to get help to the parents.

Therefore, if Alder Sturgis-Pascale and Rodriguez really want to reduce the graffiti, then help the system that is already in place, don't put burden on the property owners and merchants. Put the burden on Board of Alderman to write some legislation that will do some good.

Posted by: j. usyk | April 7, 2008 6:50 PM

Is there enough art in the schools, and are there opportunities to make art afterward--on paper? Young people with the urge to tag, or paint, or spray, or sign--whatever--might be only to happy to be offered places to create art and sculpture, express themselves in legal ways, learn how to use various media on various surfaces -- and be honored with art shows, exhibitions, and some reviews of their work. Worth a try....

J. Usyk

Posted by: MattUva | April 7, 2008 11:04 PM

Cheers to the Defender!
Somebody actually gets this!

There are two 'groups' of kids running around with spray paint, and only one of those groups (the smaller one) is actually going to use a legal wall or mural project.
A graffiti crew is not the same thing as a crew that does graffiti.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | April 8, 2008 8:15 AM

Question or suggestion...... Out reach works must have a clue on some of these kids... can we get them to get the kids to work with a group at legal walls???

Posted by: Chris Gray | April 10, 2008 12:57 AM

First, I owe Dave Steinhardt and all New Haven property owners an apology for providing a bad example the night of the L.A. police verdict in the Rodney King beating. My graffiti, "Revolt" scratched on a door on Center Street, earned me that night, of all nights, to be in jail and a fine plus my removal of the offending word. It also earned me the enmity, as if I hadn't had it already, from the tagger who'd done up the building in which the Mayor's office was then located. He thought I was taking credit for his work.

Obviously, I am in Defenders "mural painting" category and even previously earned a commendation from Mayor Daniels for helping Mark Aldrich and a group of teenagers from a half-way house paint the city's needle-exchange van. Mark went on to murals in Fairfield County with high school students and with prisoners in an upstate facility.

I absolutely endorse Defender's proposal for a Gang Intelligence Unit in the Police Department and he's given them a leg up with his primer. It has been a long time since I thought about the Island Brothers. One wonders what the institutional memory of that Department is right about now.