New Haven Independent

Posted by: king james v | May 22, 2008 3:59 PM

First of all, those of us who are gainfully employed don't have the chance to attend a meeting downtown at 9:30 am, why weren't these meetings held at 6,7 or 8 pm? why aren't the meetings held in morris cove or westville?
Having lived near some scatterd site residentcies over the last five years, i don't think it's such a good thing for those of us who have lived within a house or two of them. I think people who live around these sites will agree that it is very very obvious which houses in the neighborhood are the ones run by hanh, not because of the color of the residents, but rather by the behavior of them, and the conditios of the houses. if i had lived at 567 central ave, i'd be looking for a new place.

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | May 22, 2008 4:02 PM

"They have blended into the neighborhoods. They're indistinguishable" from privately owned homes, White observed.

In case you haven't noticed, it's because any owner who occupied a home near this travesty of democracy has fled the city and sold out to investors or rented out to transients who couldn't give a damn. The properties then slowly get seedier and seedier as absentee landlords just do the minimum.

You got what you wanted.. no opposition because people have found out that you have no say in this world against activist judges!

Posted by: Been there | May 22, 2008 4:49 PM

There goes some more property off the tax roles.

Posted by: dan fish | May 22, 2008 5:22 PM

Paul, we all know you live on/near central ave, can YOU tell which house is the one used by HANH? Do you feel your property value will be affected by more HANH households in your neighborhood?
The reason i ask is because MY family's house, the one i grew up in is quite close to the current HANH house and, yes yes yes, the tennents, in my personal opinion, do nothing to NOT make themselves stick out. Had i, or my mother known about today's meeting we would have made every effort to attend, however, i unfortuanately must go to work everyday, and she doesn't drive.
Is it the responsibliity of the neighborhood being entered to change, or is the honus on the individuals entering the neighborhood? This is not a chicken & egg debate, the neighborhood came first.

Posted by: jackie | May 22, 2008 8:12 PM

What's a mixed income neighborhood?! A neighborhood where people are too busy working or not well-off enough to have the resources to fight back!? What!? Why not put it in the sections of Westville with the million dollar homes? I guess that means I get a tax break on my property, right? since I'm within a block of one of these places. Only seems fair. Oh wait...

It's insidious BS that these meetings aren't publicized. I am really starting to HATE new haven and its mayor, though I used to be a fan. i guess i'll tell my wife who was mugged at gunpoint last month by a kid from public housing not to worry, because surely his family won't be moving in next door.

Do they mandate a certain level of upkeep at these properties? Right now the one near me is a beautiful house with a well-kept yard, anchoring that section of the street. I can only imagine what will happen now. Nice way to reward people who are already struggling to pay their (fixed-rate) mortgages. Now any hope we have of making money when we sell is surely down the tubes. Thanks, Mr. Mayor! Shall we send you the bill? You can pay for it with your raise.

I find it so infuriating that I have to pay these insane city taxes (on an assessed value that the market won't support anymore, btw) and they can get away without adequately publicizing events like this.

CRIMINAL. I'm getting out of this dump as soon as I can.

Posted by: M.I.A. | May 22, 2008 9:16 PM

Bob Solomon --- too gainfully employed to show.

Posted by: Chris Gray | May 23, 2008 12:14 AM

I have to admit scattered site housing did not work out as well as I had hoped.

I remember attending a public hearing on the matter with a huge protesting attendance, as a supporter of the program. Father Nash was leading the protesters, but had enough surrogates and free time to spend some of it berating me, his former parishioner from Holy Infant Church in Orange, for my position.

While I did not cite this evidence to him, I knew first-hand the conditions people were forced to live under at Elm Haven. For many years, as a side job I worked for two consumer research operations one owned by my mother and the other owned by the good friend she gave the business to when she moved to Florida. I was their go-to guy for interviews needed in the ghetto. It was my specialty and, in all the time I did such work, I was never molested or even threatened doing it.

Hard working single professional mothers of three lived in beautiful immaculate apartments, next door to broken into hovels with excrement on the doorstep. Many more good but terrorized people were piled into vandalized, literal shooting galleries and lived behind those doors and I met many of them.

I cannot imagine what changed Father Nash's mind. It wasn't me and it seemed entirely out of character. Still maybe the thought that still crosses my mind crossed his; that a kid growing up in one of these scattered-site units will see the examples of his neighbors and begin to follow them, allowing for a generational change in the family culture. That wasn't even a possibility for a kid in Elm Haven, no matter how nice he and his mom kept their place.

Posted by: jackie | May 23, 2008 12:53 AM

Let's try this again.

What is the rationale behind this program? Is there proven success for the HANH residents? What is the application/vetting process? How have the addition of these HANH homes affected neighboring property values historically? Crime? If there is a correlated pattern of decline in any of these categories, it seems unethical for the authority to proceed in this way.

Again, I ask, what constitutes a "mixed income" neighborhood? Are "wealthy" neighborhoods also included? Why/why not? Is "mixed income" your term, Mr. Bass, or that of the HANH?

Finally, I bought my house in a neighborhood that combined safety and affordability. The former part, especially in New Haven, demanded looking in parts of town reasonably apart from public housing (sorry--my dad grew up in public housing and he doesn't want his kids living near it). I think it's unfair that those of us who have worked, made an investment, and chosen to live in a particular place with particular qualities--and I will have you know that this is already a mixed-race neighborhood; so race is not the issue--to have the city come in and change that without reasonable compensation, or AT LEAST fair warning. To me, this all seems like an extension of the "eminent domain" mentality.

Ah, but of course, this is CT. Plenty of precedent for that way of thinking.

Posted by: peter spoodick | May 23, 2008 12:32 PM

It's all a horror, properly titled "The Death of Hope." I live next door to the scattered site house already occupied on Central Avenue. I was on the phone this morning to the Housing Authority -tried to be, that is- about the screaming children next door. No luck, of course. "That mailbox is full" was the most memorable response. I'll happily post the whole story when there's time; let's say that, like at least one individual who has posted a note above, there is no choice but to leave. Your life, your future, your dream for your house, will never be the same. The phony hearing? Who knew? There has never been any concern whatever -of any kind- for the contiguous homeowners, let alone the neighborhood.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | May 23, 2008 2:49 PM

I totally get it...but here is my problem (and please many that are on the program do not fit into this description but those that do give the program a bad name) when you integrate family's that have lived in complexes where they can trash the building, litter and disrespect the surroundings because there is a maintenance man always there to fix it at the taxpayers expense how do you think they are going to treat the community's and property's they move into! My only suggestion and demand as a taxpayer you need to have a social worker do some work with these people on how to fit into there new community's. Really!! I realize part of this program is to do just that by moving them into community's, but guess what landlords can not afford the damages these people do, community are tired of picking up after them. You want this to work make it part of there agreement with the program that common courtesy and respect of their surrounding is a must!

Posted by: jackie | May 23, 2008 6:34 PM

i think you've got the right idea, cedar hill, but of course what you suggest is not what we have. we have half-measures from the housing authority. does anyone know of a list of addresses of all the other HANH properties? i want to see where they are and what the state of upkeep is. this should be public information. anyone?

Posted by: Chris Gray | May 24, 2008 2:01 AM

You ever hear of "Welcome Wagon"? That's the outfit that used community outreach as a tool to promote local businesses and services, through which my mother gained the skills and confidence to supervise consumer (and other) research.

A more sinister version of this '50s idea was on display in the recent "A Raisin In The Sun" film, where the neighborhood leaders try to buy out an African-American interloper family, but the idea is still that of an organized neighborhood acting in concert through individuals to promote shared interests.

Now, assuming all these neighborhoods were as wonderful as we are to assume they were before the HANH encroachment, why haven't the established neighborhood groups started talking with their new neighbors? Perhaps we should fund social workers for them, as well.

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | May 24, 2008 7:49 AM

BTW Paul, if you thnk that scattered site housing is such a great thing and spun this story as positively as you did, then why don't you explain to your readers why you fled a "colorful and diverse" mixed Fair Haven neighborhood for the golden ghetto?

That's what I love about the intellectual dishonesty of liberal politics.

Posted by: robn | May 24, 2008 1:55 PM

CHR makes a good point about renters having no driving imperative to maintain their surroundings. There are two potential ways to fix this. One way is that after a HAHN purchase and tenant move-in, record all legitimate neighbor complaints and if those complaints reach a numerical trigger (codified into New Haven law) the law should force HAHN to sell the mismanaged property. Another way is to put tenants on a path to ownership by treating their rent as a mortgage payment...sort of like rent to own, but without loan shark terms....maybe that would foster a level of care...and if it didn't, legitimate neighborhood complaints could trigger the same sort of eviction and sale process.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | May 25, 2008 11:06 AM

Chris Gray
Ex's for the last part of your comment
EX 1
12 Rock st 2nd floor get's section 8 has more people living in the unit than is on the section 8 agreement for starters the litter is at an amazing rate including broken glass in frount of there door which they will not sweep up but just walk trough. they deal and are a place where drugs are stored for the dealers one building over. They run up and down the street every other weekend we some kind of street held drama where the police are unusually called in (beating a girl one street over ect.) the kids are out side at 10 at night on many occasions. I have approached them on more than one occasion explaining to them we do not except dealing as part of our diverse community and would like them to stop I have explained that have there dog S**t on the sidewalk and leaving it there is not and exceptable behavior. I invited them to our block party and they came...I am hoping that they saw what kind of community we are trying to create will help with some of the problems but yesterday just proved me wrong on that. They say they are very good friend s with an Adler (who I love) is there friend and stands by them...I hope that is just talk because that would not be a good thing.
Ex 2
171 Cedar Hill Av. owned by REGIONAL HOUSING REHAB has become a true night mare for that street!!! And we give state money to run these places!!!

Posted by: jackie | May 25, 2008 11:29 AM

CG,

as far as your 'raisin in the sun' reference goes, i need it to be clear that my concerns, in fact none i can see on the comment board, are race-derived. (around ray road it is fairly mixed anyway.) now i don't think that's exactly what you were going for, but it needs to be said since you will perhaps have made a rather infelicitous (insidious?) insinuation.

my point is simply that if the HANH or its residents fail to maintain the properties up to the standards of the neighborhood in which the properties are located, the implicit lack of concern for those standards amounts to being a BAD NEIGHBOR. period. and we're not talking a need for immaculate lawns and gardens, here--just mowed lawns and not trash on the property. (again, i'd like a list of the properties so i could compare apples to apples here. no dice, i'm afraid.)

now, under normal "bad neighbor" circumstances, you pretty much have to grin and bear it--suck it up that you have a sloppy neighbor, BUT when public monies are involved you have a legitimate reason and perhaps obligation to agitate. right? i mean, this is mine and your (i presume) money being spent. it ought to be reinvested in the community wisely and comprehensively. and this does not mean buying a house and letting its property deteriorate, e.g., as well as the value of those around it.

i actually think the idea behind the "scatter-site" program is somewhat intelligent, but only so far as it's wisely executed: maintain/compel the residents to maintain the properties to the standard (or above) of the neighborhood. (i.e., be a good neighbor.) because if it could be proven that this were done universally and well, i don't think we'd even be having this particular discussion. but that doesn't seem to be the consensus of the longer-term NH residents here.

oh--and one more thing can happen in the "bad neighbor situation." i can move. but then who would be left to take my place? maybe the HANH can buy my property, too.

Posted by: Ben | May 26, 2008 9:58 AM

If you would like HANH to address an issue with one of their properties you should report it on http://www.seeclickfix.com.

Posted by: In The Hood | May 26, 2008 2:06 PM

My house is in the 'hood and I have serious problems with any landlord who does not set strong perimeters for what behavior is acceptable and what is not. They should conduct tenant-training sessions if they have you to.

How do they make it work in Monterey Place formerly Elm Haven Housing Projects? You don't see trash and broken property in that community. The private management company holds the tenants accountable, throw them out when they disrespect the community and don't pander to their tenants' bad behavior. As a racial minority it is an insult to read that some folks are making this about race.

I don't care what race you are. Landlords including HANH should not permit their tenants to get away with dysfunctional behavior in our neighborhoods.

Posted by: mr. october | May 26, 2008 3:38 PM

mr. bass, your non response is deafening. figured as much

Posted by: Chris Gray | May 26, 2008 11:40 PM

Cedarhillresident, from what I have read from you, you are one of the most responsible neighbors in the city. Even in this last piece, you exemplify the "hope for the best, while prepared for the worst" attitude by which I have tried to live.

Jackie, everything in your response to me makes sense. Though, while I was contrasting the entirely commercial Welcome Wagon approach and the more sinister 'raisin' approach, it was more for lack of another clear model. When we were a more heterogeneous community such outreach would often provided by a church.

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | May 28, 2008 7:14 AM

Forgot to ask another question which highlights hypocracy at the highest level. Where does attorney, and Director, Shelly White live? I'd love to know how much scatter site housing is within 5 blocks of her house.

Posted by: Research Assistant | May 28, 2008 5:29 PM

According to New Haven Legal Assistance Association, Inc.'s 2006 990, available to the public and accessible for free on Guidestar.org, 5 of the 6 top-paid attorneys at NHLA, including Shelley White, live in the 'burbs.

Not that I don't believe in scattered-site affordable housing. But I do believe that you should be the change you want to see in the world.