New Haven Independent

Posted by: PowertothePeople | May 8, 2008 3:04 PM

I know it was wrong for him to go off but part of me is laughing because this guy did what I'm sure most of us have felt like doing when dealing with government. If I ever get arrested it will most likely be for doing something like this -- turning over tables in the 'temple'.

Posted by: Gary Doyens | May 8, 2008 4:07 PM

It would have been nice if somebody had shown some compassion and let the guy pass with his last $10. For lack of $5, the system took a guy on the edge and shoved him right over. Now, his record is longer, probably had to post bail, probably missed work today too.

Too bad he wasn't politically connected - he could have gotten a new ID for free.

Posted by: Fair Haven | May 8, 2008 4:28 PM

To PowertothePeople:

I am troubled by your remark of "laughing", at this situation, as I work in a "government" office, it is difficult to digest your reaction. We come to work to serve the public and are given less than adequate means of doing this, follow policies put forth to us, and almost every day our lives are put in danger because we are doing/following the policies of our jobs. Kudos to Ms. Suber for dealing with a difficult situation. I hope those who read this may understand and appreciate those in public service who deal with the same issues the general public do and have families all the same.

Posted by: In The Hood | May 8, 2008 4:30 PM

I feel bad for the guy..and I wish he had not reached the point of threatening...But God knows..some folks at city hall need some serious training in customer service.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | May 8, 2008 4:49 PM

I walked out of their once, they were really rude and I had the money. This poor guy probably lost the job over this....what happened to discretion and kindness???

Posted by: king james v | May 8, 2008 5:13 PM

of the upcoming 102 city employees about to get laid off, i hope 97 of them come from the unkind, unprofessional workers in the city hall complex.
i hope that if this man goes to trial, i'm on his jury. the city is well into it's slide into the abyss, i can hear mayor john's violin playing upstairs right now.

Posted by: True New Havener | May 8, 2008 6:06 PM

City Hall employees deal with thousands of people a day. It's disgusting that anyone would think it is appropriate to justify this man's behavior. If you have concerns about city hall staff, there are plenty of venues to raise them.

An article where people's lives are threatened is definitely not one of them.

There have been a large number of killings in America's city halls over the last several years. This is not because of some awful behavior on the part of city employees here or elsewhere. It is because some of the most marginalized and disenfranchised people seek out city halls when they are at the end of their ropes thinking that they might get some assistance to deep problems which might even include the voices they alone hear inside their heads.

The city's homeless population often spends hours talking to city hall staff like Aranow, which helps dissipate the stress they feel. Why do they have these conversations? Because in America we have chosen not to have the resources to deal with millions of people who are often disabled, drug addicted, suffering from post traumatic stress, or otherwise disconnected.

So New Haven city staff and their counterparts in cities across this country are in the position of dealing with these folks, even though most have no training to do so. They mostly try to do their best.

And from time to time they fail and someone feels that city hall has failed them so they lose it and on all too frequent occasions they then kill public servants.

That is not the same as some issue with "customer service."

Posted by: cedarhillresident | May 8, 2008 7:50 PM

True New Havener
point well taken. You are right.

When I read the article the first thing that popped in my head was they better get ready for more anger y people but .....their is anger and there are threats and this man did threaten.

Posted by: Freedom Fighter | May 8, 2008 7:54 PM

GARY DOYENS, What do you know about the situation? Where you there? You are so irrational and horribly obsessed with City Hall that you have lost all sense of perspective. A mentally ill man threatens to kill City Hall staff, and somehow, the staff is to blame. Your allegations are shocking and quite frankly revolting. You need a serious reality check.

Posted by: True New Havener | May 8, 2008 8:15 PM

Cedar Hill - comment appreciated.

Posted by: Gary Doyens | May 8, 2008 10:30 PM

Freedom Fighter: No, I was not there. But you would have to be living under a rock, or be one of those city hall employees who couldn't give a rat's axx about the very taxpayers who take from their children to provide a lavish and rich benefit package not to wonder how different the situation may have turned out for this gentleman if somebody would have shown some level of compassion for his plight. Have you ever stood in line at the tax office to pay your taxes? Rude doesn't begin to describe how people are treated. Did you read about the woman with two sick babies, who had her car towed, paid near a $1,000 only to find out it was a "clerical" error? Have you never been run from one office to the other and back again to the same people and spend two hours pulling documents and then walk out to find a fxxking parking ticket on your car?

Freedom Fighter: When you sit in the budget meeting til midnight and see the level of small thinking; you stand in line and get abused; you read stories of innocent people having their car towed while the politically connected skate; when other politically connected avoid $500,000 in property taxes - talk to me about irrationality. I'm neither obsessed with City Hall or afraid of it either. I don't do happy talk and bend over backwards to placate people who have so little respect for the very taxpayers who sacrifice daily to pay the excessive salaries and benefits that more than double the private sector.

Get out of your ivory tower - get down where real people live and perhaps you'll appreciate the stresses your privileged class inflict on the governed. By the way, get your facts right - nothing in this story says this man was mentally ill. He was angry. There's a difference.

Posted by: outtaorder | May 8, 2008 11:06 PM

Must be nice to play Monday morning quarterback. The system did not push anyone over the edge. This man should be held accountable for his actions at City Hall. Do you see how many cops are standing on the steps of city hall? I wonder what else they could be doing.

Some of you are such hypocrites. If the fee is $15, the fee should be $15 for all. These employees should not be making these sorts of subjective decisions in their treatment of anyone. Who are they to assess (in the moment) why anyone should or should not get a break? It's the problem of the slippery slope-where does any employee stop with his newly granted discretionary power? I hate the use of discretion with the Kimbers of the world, and I hate it here.

I am also concerned by the police officer's apologetic tone. Why make excuses for people's bad and potentially criminal behavior?

No employee should have to deal with abuse from anyone. In this day and age you never know who is brandishing a weapon or who might be on the verge of losing it. This behavior is not in the least bit funny. And, if city employees are disrespectful to you, drop a note to the department head or mayor's office. It's probably not the first time they've been nasty, but no one has given their supervisors enough ammunition to reprimand them, so this behavior becomes the culture of the department.

Posted by: Gary Doyens | May 9, 2008 11:18 AM

Outta Order: Nobody makes a decision in a vacuum and normally, I'd agree all people should be treated the same. However, there are always a few times when there should be an exception and people, yes, even city hall workers should go above and beyond. Too often they don't and too often they treat people poorly. That's why you can find signs telling the public not to get angry at them. It's always insulting to read those missives - ever think that what makes the public so angry is the lack of customer care, the requirement to run from office to office while getting nickled and dimed along the way?

Posted by: no2partysystem | May 9, 2008 12:56 PM

How about we come up with some solutions. Why do IDs cost so much? They certainly don't cost $15 to make, who's pockets is this padding? These IDs should be free and issued to every citizen. It may even make solving crimes easier, if people are required to carry their IDs with them (although this shouldn't be a cause for fining citizens, simply a guideline that will help identify people in emergency situations).

Posted by: PowertothePeople | May 9, 2008 5:13 PM

Quite a few things can be inferred from reading a story. I inferred that the appeal for compassion by the police suggested that the situation was not very serious. Also since his charges are about disturbance and not the threats, I viewed the incident as some dude getting pissed and going off - a feeling we all experience when we are faced with what we deem poor service. Hence my amusement. I do not condone violence and frankly, I'm always looking out for the 'armed nut' when I go to city hall or any public building. The times have taken me there.

Perhaps the man went too far in his rant and for that he is wrong and must accept consequences for his actions. Still, I can understand the emotion having experienced it myself. To date I have thankfully had the control to not go too far, but...

As a Christian I remember reading a story about this cat named Jesus who showed up at the Temple and started talking about how he was going to tear it down stone by stone in three days or something... You might read the story differently but if you were working at the Temple at the time and you heard some dude talking about tearing it down in three days... I know what I would think.

My point in sharing that ancient story is not to preach (though preaching is what I do) or proselytize but to illustrate the many windows through which one can view any story. What makes this complicated is that each picture is 'truth' to the beholder.

Rather than attacking the person in these posts we should try to understand where they are and what they see through their windows.

Then we can proceed to tell them just how wrong they are. ;-)

Posted by: FIX THE SCHOOLS | May 9, 2008 6:19 PM

Usually I don't weigh in on non-school stuff but this thread reminds me of something that happened last summer.

Our car was towed on a Friday night (due to delinquent property taxes). The property taxes were past due but the notices had been sent to a previous address and had not been forwarded. But in fairness, the city was justified in towing the car.

This is where the fun begins. On Saturday since the tax office is closed, we had to go down to police headquarters to arrange to have the car released. When we walked into the waiting room, there were about 30 unfortunate souls like ourselves who had had their cars towed.

We surveyed the situation and after being unable to find a queue or any semblance of an orderly line, we approached the window. Behind the windows (there are big clear windows in the police station)there were not less than 4 police officers milling around looking not particularly engaged with the dozens of people in their waiting room. A TV was on near the back, and one cop (I am not making this up) was slouched back in a chair sitting with his feet up on the table dunkin donuts cup in hand, munching on a pastry, and watching a TV show.

We approached the window and asked what was the process. A very disinterested receptionist said "You have to sign up on the list"

"Where is the list?" we asked.

"Uh, I don't know. The lady has it."

"Lady? What lady?" we asked.

"Uh, I don't know. She was just here a while ago."

We paused a moment as both of us tried to let this line of communication seep in. Maybe it would become clearer in a moment. It didn't get clearer.

"Do you know when she will get back with the list?" we asked.

Walking away from the window, the cop's response was too muffled for us to understand. But we didn't attempt any further dialogue because by then the other three officers standing in the back were finding something very funny on TV, so their laughter probably muffled out our confused queries.

We looked at each other and instantly decided that this could very asily turn into a 3+ hour nightmare, so we aborted the mission. Walking out of the station, I had a fleeting thought: Could we have just been "punked"?. Could it really have been the case that there was a big fat cop sitting back there donut-munching WATCHING TELEVISION with all of these people waiting like cattle? No cameras, No Ashton, no punked.

On Monday I went down to the tax office and paid the past due bill quickly and efficiently to, I might add, a very pleasant young lady.

So what's the point of this story? Not to highlight this poor guy's plight, but mainly in response to True NewHavener and other city hall apologists who don't seem to appreciate the depth of mismanagement in this city.

I wonder if the TV is still there. Does anyone know?

Posted by: Wiseman45 | May 9, 2008 7:34 PM

It's time to start laying off some of these deadbeat beaurocrats. What we get from city hall is not service worthy of the worst farsical situational comedies only found on tv. Go out and get jobs in private industry and see how hard you'll have to work for a fraction of the pay and compensation.

Posted by: goatviller | May 10, 2008 6:11 PM

i can totally understand where this man was coming from. have never been to city hall and had the "right documents" with me, even if their own website says differently they won't budge.

while it's never ok to scare and threaten city employees it does seem like new haven city employees are paid to be unhelpful and aggravate situations like this. is no suprise that someone finally lost it.

Posted by: The Insider | May 11, 2008 11:21 AM

Fix the school

The story you submitted was just that, a story. First of all there is no t.v. at the front desk, never was one. Secondly there is no receptionist either, there is a front desk supervisor ( a sergeant ), in uniform.

The officers " milling around ", were probably working. The property room is there to submit evidence, there are sign in sheets for other police functions, you don't know what they were doing so don't assume. It's funny how people tend to trivialize what they don't understand, you try doing the job for a week and let's see how long you last.

As far as efficently goes, pay your taxes on time and you won't have to go to the front desk on a weekend to pay them, and be submitted to working class people who risk there lives for unappreciative people like you.

Posted by: FIX THE SCHOOLS | May 12, 2008 8:59 AM

Insider,

Didn't mean to hit such a nerve with you, but mine is not the only antecdote highlighting the lack of pride and service attitude in this city.

First, I am very appreciative - of people who are hardworking and competent. There wasn't a lot of competency or hard work going behind that front desk when we walked in there on that Saturday morning. You're right about one thing - I don't know what they were doing. But I do know that they weren't attending to their overflowing waiting room.

As for risking lives, the only risk that the cop was taking was raising his cholesterol with his pastry. And sorry to refute you, but yes there actually was a T.V. propped up in the back. 30 other people wasting their time in the waiting area could see it as well.

I don't mean to trivialize all police because I know that there are some great cops who do great work for the public. But given what this department has gone through, do the facts of my story surprise you at all?

And as an insider do you just blindly defend the place, or do you work hard to change what the public observes too often?

Posted by: Tyrone Everett Allen | May 14, 2008 1:00 PM

first of all there were no threats or harm to anyone. because of the poor procedures by 194 basset street that I do have documentation to prove I still as of 5/15/08 have not recieved my foodstamps after reporting the issue on 4/23/08. My personal identities were taken on 4/19/08 and my intern badge to workforce alliance was taken to days later. I had $10 slammed on the table with me questioning why was this being done because the I.D cost $15 dollars. the person responsible for the action said someone from motor vehicle named evette told him it was $10 dollars, a rule that went out 5 years ago. I after returning for a for nothing trip just wanted him to prove that comment to be true which did not happen. I wonder how more of my confidential information gets out. Honest is what I'm all about and would appreciate very much if you clear the air and not use your position as power towards a individual who has the same caliber to do the same. I feel slandered, lied about, humiliated in front of my own city that I put in work for throughout many years and have been and always will be highly dedicated to as a citzen but most of all a human. People make mistakes and I guess trying to get my life together was a big mistake. maybe I am suppose to use drugs and sell drugs then go to jail or get killed. To me it's a your right and I'm wrong situation without you not being there and even though I was you get to talk about a scene you take as a movie but never got a chance to view. Instead you hear this from someone just trying to look good and see an article as a piece of meat on the grill. If people are really concerned and want to help my e-mail address is everettgood@hotmail.com. I believe in equal opportunity, I have been kicked in the groin area to many times and I don't even have kids. I single and trying to do the right thing with my own courage, heart, strength, dedication and will power to not be a copy cat or a follower, but an originalist and a leader. No one is perfect, but if this doesn't give anyone a piece of mind and understanding about this situation I think they should get rid of this sight and let someone such as my self finally have a fair shot at something instead of WWFING IT OUT and filling up space where the nowhere in the right ball park comments come from. So for all you sports fan, here is your first no hitter to a 20 comment batter up line up excluding the batters that did stand by my side but thought that I may have been threatening. I understand how excitement is formed but hey not that way, no no not that way.

Posted by: The Insider | May 14, 2008 8:07 PM

Fix

Your question was if I blindly defend the actions of the whole department, of course not, I was one of the first to come out against Lt. White, and several other officers involved because they tarnish the badge. But I will defend against out right lies, that are blogged from people like you.

If the cop was " dunking doughnuts ", and ignoring you, why didn't you take the officers name down and report him. Internal affairs is located in the lobby.

Instead you walked out in a huff with no idea of how to pay your taxes ?....come on.

Do you honestly think people are going to believe that there is a t.v., in plain sight at the desk.
Oh and what about the ficticous receptionist or sign up list, there is no sign up list. The list is for people going into the pd., not the front desk, why would there be a list???. In the future you should do a little research before you make up a story.

Another little suggestion when you blog a story like this again ( and you will ), try starting it with Once upon a time..

Posted by: FIX THE SCHOOLS | May 15, 2008 9:21 AM

Gosh, you seem to be a touch defensive, Insider. I wonder why? Could it have been YOU who was working behind the desk on that Saturday morning??

I actually wasn't upset about the experience, mainly because it was somewhat amusing. The entire event amounted to a small indication of the lack of professional pride and job accountability that is tolerated by the police managers, most notably the mayor.

While I called it as I saw it, I am open to believing that the situation may NOT have represented the overall attitude of the force. But then again, you have to examine what has happened over the past year and draw your own conclusions.

Perhaps, Insider, you might try to reconcile your fierce defense of a small stereotypical thing thing like a cop eating a donut, with a larger deal like the corruption charges and convictions of many top ranking people in the department. Or, are those all lies, too?

Posted by: The Insider | May 15, 2008 5:08 PM

Fix

I don't have to justify myself or my actions to the like of you, I can really care less what you think of cop's. I was just pointing out some of your inaccuracies in your " story ".

I was not the sergeant on duty, to answer your question and I don't know what you do for a living but I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate people taking pop shots at your profession.

Posted by: Tyrone Everett Allen | May 17, 2008 3:41 PM

Hey I'm not understanding you. I'm saying instead of hearing this from a third party, you should hear it from the you know the old saying "horses mouth". But anyway I'm doing fine and just making sure my life that you are right about don't half to care about but guess what I do. There is no such thing as inaccuuries in my story because the situation happen to me. Once again Your right and I'm wrong. But guess what I appreciate the sight because it does give me on my own to get nonviewers straight and as a grown man and not little boy atleast for my profanity only I am able to apologize about it. After all for a person such as my self just trying to do the right thing I did ask does this situation half to be verbally handled in a professional way or a nasty way. Because of the ignorance of the situation I fed into it out of frustration. Life is good I say especially when your real honest and just trying to do the right thing.