“We Are 1 Community”
by Allan Appel | May 6, 2008 7:01 AM | Permalink | Comments (45)
Give us more protection, said hundreds East Rockers and Newhallville residents at an impassioned community meeting in the wake of last week’s home invasion on Loomis Place.
Acting Chief of Police Stephanie Redding assured the group that community policing, though currently understaffed, is alive and well.
The real problem, she asserted, is “We cannot police or arrest ourselves out of the crime problem we’re facing today.”
Although she could not release details about the perpetrators of the home invasion that left a 55-year-old woman badly beaten, she said the two 17-year olds arrested thus far in the case represented the kind of urban crime New Haven and even the country, is facing, that is new.
“The perpetrators are frequently younger, there are gangs are involved, which are not like gangs of the old based on turf, but are unstructured, and often impulsive, and therefore hard to track. There are more guns available, a regular dumping of ex felons, and the poverty of lives leads to crimes. All these factors add up to something new, and we cannot police our way out of it.”
Alderwoman Alfreda Edwards (at left) whose 19th ward straddles the well-to-do St. Ronan-Edgehill enclave and working-class Newhallville, organized the meeting. People filled the Celentano School cafeteria Monday night, she said, “to show that we are one community and that we’ve all been traumatized by this crime.”
Claudine Wilkins-Chambers (middle above), chair of the Newhallville management team, said she has lived in Newhallville for 43 years, and had never heard of such a crime.
Police Officer Joe Avery, who had done his research for the meeting, corroborated, more or less. “In the last two years in the city,” he said, “there have been six home invasions. But in most instances, it was about drugs, or the people knew each other. The incident on Loomis Place was a true invasion.”
For the audience it was not sufficient to hear how Redding’s force is 20 percent undermanned yet still out there patrolling using overtime and employing officers on 16-hour shifts when need be, by her lights still getting the job done.
Not sufficient for them to hear how challenging it is to recruit officers in New Haven. Even though 55 new officers are on the way — with 45 finishing the academy in New Haven and 10 being trained in Stamford by this winter — only 61 out of 900 applicants are still in contention for the next class of recruits.
Residents wanted to know how to protect themselves now, especially as the higher crime summer season is approaching. Was the woman’s door broken into? someone asked.
Redding and District Manager Lt. Rebecca Sweeney, for legal reasons, could not reveal it.
However, Officer Avery said, “Your neighborhood, compared to other areas, is not badly afflicted by crime. But we get complacent in our homes. You have to make sure to lock your doors. I urge you to form block watches. Join East Rock’s extensive block watch and let the neighborhoods join each other. Report crimes. The statistics matter.”
He pointed to remarks made by this man, Hao Phan, who rose early in the meeting to apologize. “I saw three kids right near the school messing around the day before the invasion,” he said. “I saw them trying to get through my gate, but it was locked. I could have been the victim. I should have called the police, but I didn’t.”
“Call,” repeated Avery. “Calling matters.”
Lt. Sweeney said the woman who had been beaten wanted to be at the meeting, but was unable to make it. “She is remarkable,” said the officer. “She is trying to move beyond what happened.”
David Leffell (below) said he found Sweeney’s and Redding’s explanation of the attrition in the force and the challenge of recruitment - currently the police force is at 397 officers, roughly a hundred less than budgeted for but it’s made up through overtime — “evasive” and unsatisfactory.
Lori Frazier (pictured with Leffell) said the police presented a fair picture regarding manpower, and yet it was very bad that officers are stressed out.
Merryl Eaton, who works with Christian Community Action on Winchester Avenue, and Debra Hauser, who lives on Livingston Street and described effective collaborations with Lt. Sweeney, both echoed Redding. They emphasized the larger social context.
“People I see on Winchester,” said Eaton, “have no hope. No jobs. That leads to the crime. If you’re telling us we should lock our doors, and not attend to re-distribution of services and opportunities in the city, that just isn’t right and won’t work.”
Her remarks elicited applause, but concerns kept on returning to the practical.
Would it make sense to reinstitute a private security service, which the St. Ronan-Edgehill Neighborhood Association had years before?
Maybe, responded Avery, if the private service worked with the police department. He pointed out that the collaboration with the Yale Police Department is good. In fact the first arrest in the home invasion case was made by the Yale P.D.
Other practical steps people might take? Sweeney’s contact numbers were given out, and pens and pencils throughout the room scratched them down. Many people in the audience had never attended a management team meeting. David Cameron, of the highly active East Rock Management Team, urged all to attend.
More immediately, there were calls for the Foote School to make a contribution through providing its own security for its campus’s acreage at night and on the weekends, or at minimum add lighting. Alderwoman Edwards said she would arrange a follow-up meeting with the Foote School.
It was apparent to a reporter — and it was recurrent theme in Officer Avery’s charge — that many people present had a naïve idea about what it means to become involved in protection of their own communities. “Block watches are not what they used to be,” he said to the crowd. “It’s not someone sitting at a window and looking out. Its listserves and email trees and people sending out information right away. We want to work with you.”
Linda Hurt, who didn’t know anything about block watches, said she was going to call Joe Avery to find out how it worked, and perhaps to get started.
Another idea that David Cameron put on the table was to urge the Yale Police Department to extend its patrols down Prospect Street even farther, to St. Ronan and to Loomis Place.
Comments
Posted by: robn | May 6, 2008 8:45 AM
How about exile....after these offenders get out of jail...if they ever get out, order them to leave New Haven and to never come back. If their parents can kick them out of the house, why shouldn't we?
Posted by: eastshoreguy | May 6, 2008 9:08 AM
Amazing! "Alderwoman Alfreda Edwards (at left) whose 19th ward straddles the well-to-do St. Ronan-Edgehill enclave and working-class Newhallville, organized the meeting."
She comes in at center stage to act if she cares, but how many folks realize their Alderwoman voted to delay putting more cops on the streets?
Posted by: JackNH | May 6, 2008 9:25 AM
Redding says we "can't police our way out of it"? That's really something. What are we going to wait for, everyone to kill each other? DiStefano is going to raise my taxes anyway; raise 'em enough to put a cop on every block, if that's what it's gonna take. I'll gladly pay. Otherwise, Guilford here I come.
Posted by: tired of it | May 6, 2008 9:35 AM
The commment "If you're telling us we should lock our doors, and not attend to re-distribution of services and opportunities in the city, that just isn't right and won't work." That is not what Officer Avery meant, he was advising people to secure their homes and be aware of what is going on around you, not to become a hermit and ignore the outside.
The only way that community policing is going to work, is that the community take an active role. You need to rely on each other, each person in the neighborhood needs to watch out for the other. Crime increases when the criminals know that people are afraid, and will not call the police.
The problem in this city, is that there is not an active recruitment list. They always seem to wait until it is to late to promote and hire. This is why there is such a reduction in the police numbers. If there is alaways an active list, then when you need ten police officers, you hire ten. Not when you need 100. This again is a problem with having city hall run things.
But in the end, it is not just a Policing problem, it is a complete breakdown of the neighbor principle. "You watch my house, I watch yours." Don't tell me that the community is active either, you have probably less then 1 percent of the neighbors attempting to be active. Bring the numbers up and drive the crime numbers down.
Posted by: david streever | May 6, 2008 10:05 AM
While I think it was tragic, I think the odds of you having your home invaded are very, very small--I think the best solution for dealing with random, unstructured, unplanned criminality is for citizens to band together.
Call the police whenever you see something suspicious. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that these kids were already up to no good, & the general spirit of malevolence & mischief contributed to the home invasion.
Though, the police chief is deeply wrong to suggest this is a new problem--clockwork orange, anyone?
I do think we need more community policing--just a presence--walking officers on local beats.
I'm tired of watching officers blow red lights & speed up and down streets, going nowhere, with sirens/lights off. It just creates a feeling of resentment when you have them cruising around like lords & ladies. Get some officers on walking/bike beats, & get back community interactions. East rock needs an officer, & so does State street--I don't see why two officers, one going from whitney down to state, and the other from state up to whitney--should be impossible!
Posted by: eastshoreguy | May 6, 2008 11:09 AM
David - you are right on the money. New Haven residents deserve more walking and bike cops.
That is the point I was making about their alderwoman. She votes against hiring more cops and then organizes a meeting? To what end? To discuss the lack of officers on patrol? What wanton hubris is this?
I have friends that attended the meeting that are still shocked about the event and are upset. She organized the meeting as just a way to hide behind the fact she is against more cops.
Posted by: facChek | May 6, 2008 11:19 AM
Redding said, "We cannot police or arrest ourselves out of the crime problem we're facing today."
That is precisely the response Ortiz provided to residents at community meetings. That is precisely the type of response that feeds into the lack of confidence within the department and spreads through-out the city of New Haven.
It is statements like this that embolden the criminal element.
If you cannot police or arrest your way out of the current problem, then the residents should abandon the city and leave it to the criminal elements.
Instead, what residents would like to here is that you will ask for state police and federal drug enforcement assistance, while at the same time re-alighting and reassigning the way we deploy and utilize our force.
Hiring more forces without changing the way your forces are assigned and deployed, simply results in more of the same sorry-ass excuses and lack of progress we have heard over the past six to eight years.
Reddings vulnerability is on display when she too demonstrates the lack of vision and planning which goes beyond past practices, she also lacks the initiative to embrace bold new methods and leadership.
The department is content on being crisis managed resulting in even more after the fact (crime) policing.
Posted by: Gary Doyens | May 6, 2008 11:26 AM
These thugs walked into the home - the door was unlocked. Enough said. You could add 100 cops to the payroll and it won't change your odds when you don't lock the door.
Personal safety, as with other things, is not the sole responsibility of the government. We already have a government we can't afford, that has put us in a permanent dependency position with the state. Take personal responsibility and you are far less likely to be a victim.
Posted by: East Rock resident | May 6, 2008 11:44 AM
The most effective way to crack down on crime would be to arrest anyone running a stop sign or light, and ticketing anyone exceeding the 25MPH limit. Fines should be upped by $500-$1000. Speeding is a matter of life or death and statistically a much greater threat to everyone's health and safety (not to mention community, considering that it is ongoing at all hours of the day and night) than random crime is. Plus, if you stopped the reckless speeders you would end up catching some of the same people who go on to commit crimes like this one.
Posted by: In The Hood | May 6, 2008 12:32 PM
Community- based policing with a real strategy to build relationships with and gather intelligence from the community.
The attitude by NHPD is if you didn't hear gun shots don't bother to call us.
Residents on both sides of Prospect hill are traumatized by this...we "in the hood" worry about this stuff everyday...we complain about this stuff everyday...when we come in late at night we call someone in the house or a trusted neighbor to let them know to look out us....we look out for each others' homes and we report strangers hanging around.
New Haven Police might believe in their own minds that they are actually doing something but that perception has not trickled down to community.
How about one simple and very easy strategy Chief Redding: Go get the chronic suspension and expulsion list of thugs --who some politicians want treated as juveniles-- but who actually destabilize our public schools everyday with their out of control bad behavior.
Chief I promise you that list would give you a good start on who the community perpetrators are likely to be.
By the way, in-school suspension is not an appropriate response for these hardened thugs.
At least give the community a sense that you have some real thinking going on to handle this problem and you're not waiting for DeStefano and Smuts and the rest of us to come up with best ideas.
While this crime wave is a statewide and national problem...what ever happened to "think globally, but act locally." Do something!
Posted by: Gary Holder-Winfield
| May 6, 2008 12:36 PM
I attended this meeting. It was - interesting. You had people trying to express that they are worried, scared. And, you had a police department responding with facts about what they are doing positively. I have often said this about responses politicians and government officials give...sometimes you just have to seem like you are listening. I think that is what some of the people wanted. They want to know that they are being heard. When it happens next door or down the street, when it is close you don't necessarily care that it is rare or improbable you- get scared.
I live over in Newhallville so I understand the arguments about the dichotomy of the neighborhoods separated by Prospect but let people vent. Yes they should care what happens on the other side of the hill if for no other reason than their safety but there are a lot of things that the other side needs to be doing also.
On more concrete terms people have to see their connection to what happens outside of their neighborhood. For years we have been talking about many of the issues that undergird this situation. We have been ignored. Dropping ex-offenders off did not just start. The need for more resource allocation to reentry did not just start. I am glad the city is getting involved but where have they been? I would say that this is a vision problem but it did not take vision (in a prospective sense) to see this. So, to the man who spoke about the political problem I say yes there is a political problem. You cannot hide your head in the sand and then act like you are leading the way when you have no choice but to act and that is what has happened.
Posted by: pdh | May 6, 2008 1:57 PM
The sad fact is that the Loomis Place incident occurred because the most basic rule of home security had been ignored: activating the burglar alarm.
On the larger scale, the neighborhood has also been negligent. We terminated our private security patrol because neighborhood association leaders saw no need for it. We have allowed our once active blockwatches to go dormant.
Security, like charity, begins at home!!
Posted by: In The Hood | May 6, 2008 3:58 PM
Security practiced singularly by one aspect of the community or by a few people will not protect us from brazen thugs.
I agree that we should be smart and exercise the basic tactics that we have in place. But long term solutions requires solid community engagement and thoughtful actions by our leaders to reduce and eliminate these atrocities.
Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | May 6, 2008 4:51 PM
An armed society is a polite society.
Posted by: EarlyBird | May 6, 2008 6:16 PM
PDH - so true. This was a crime of opportunity. Like an open pocketbook or an unlocked bike/ car, an open door is an invitation.
Did someone call this "pre-meditated"? These fools couldn't pre-meditate taking a dump, hence the awesome haul of a laptop and some ice cream. The victim is fortunate it was some yabbos, and not the 'real deal'.
That being said, this serves as an unfortunate reminder for all of us -- in ALL neighborhoods -- to be smart about personal and home security.
Posted by: robn | May 6, 2008 8:29 PM
heres a crazy idea....maybe people up on Ronan St who are paying twenty thousand dolars a year in property taxes do expect more police protection than the people down in Newhallville who are paying two thousand dollars a year...especially since the criminals are coming from Newhalville...sorry folks but somebody had to say it.
Posted by: In The Hood | May 6, 2008 11:35 PM
Wow RobN! Gutsy move! We in Newhallville--all criminals no doubt, really appreciate those comments.
Posted by: Chris Gray | May 7, 2008 2:08 AM
Banishment! An interesting idea, but where does that leave the next town in which a person like this ends up?
I met a fellow twice in my life, first while he grew up in West Haven, then after he moved to Pocatello Idaho as a boy with his single father, joined the navy, killed a marine in a racially motivated bar fight in Spain, served his time in the brig, got out and, once again, right before he conspired and committed, with a Branford teen, the murder the kid's 83-year old neighbor for the money in her shoebox.
Frankly, from what I learned from him in that second meeting, I should have been able to envision what might happen and I would subscribe to In The Hood's suggestion regarding police intelligence. Past behavior is a good predictor of future performance, unless new innovative thinking is applied.
I will forever regret not alerting officials of my vague suspicions about that fellow, whether they would have listened to me or not. As it happens, he was taking over my job operating the balloon walk in the Chancy Bros. Carnival, right next to my parent's trailer with the digger cranes, so I was just very lucky he didn't go after them.
Posted by: robn | May 7, 2008 8:42 AM
INH,
Don't put words in my mouth. I know that that there are good people in Newhalville. I also know that two 17 year olds were arrested there last week for brutally beating a woman with a baseball bat. Somethings very wrong in that neighborhood.
Posted by: cedarhillresident
| May 7, 2008 9:33 AM
First Robn I am a little disappointed in your comment. WOw....no alot disappointed. I have heard the same comments about my area...and it is so wrong. You must also consider the percentage of income that people spend on their property taxes when making comments like that! What percent of thier annual income do they spend on thier property taxes my guess not even close to what the people in the poor community's spend. And these poor people don't deserve protection because life does not afford them a house at the top of the hill?? Boy!! Ok ok it does not matter any why the Faze in will be fazing "those people" out anyway! because they do not have the extra income to stretch to pay more taxes. Unless the finance committee grows some hairy ones tonight and start making the cuts they know they need to!
Posted by: Your Tax Dollars at Work
| May 7, 2008 10:04 AM
All of us have ignored the problem of home and personal security for much too long.
Logical, inexpensive, and effective steps can be taken.
Secure your home. Get quality locks. Use them! Don't leave your doors and windows, especially at street level, unlocked. Install bars where openings are easily penetrable. Install a good, monitored alarm system. Use it. Nothing's more important or worth protecting than your family!
Inexpensive loans and grants for home security should be made available through the Community Foundation for Greater New Haven, the Greater New Haven Community Loan Fund and the First City Fund Corporation. Certificates of occupancy should be contingent on adequate security systems built in to new or improved housing. Tenant inspected housing should embrace rules for providing adequate security systems at entrances, hallways, and apartments.
Busy intersections should be monitored with surveilance cameras hooked in to the Yale or New Haven Police system.
Yale's "Blue lights" system with surveillance cameras at the top of the support poles should be extended at least to neighborhoods where students and faculty live and walk, ideally into the entire city. This of course should be coupled with an agreement with the City to jointly monitor and to funnel calls through the 911 system.
Posted by: Edward_H | May 7, 2008 11:05 AM
My God people stop reading things into what Robn posted. Robn did not say people paying 20K in taxes DESERVE better protection she said maybe they EXPECT more police protection. Like it or not people in general tend to expect more of a product or service if they are paying more than the next person. whether or not such a mindset is a morally correct one is a healthy topic for debate but beyond the scope of this article.
The two criminals who were caught did come from Newhallville ,are we getting so politically correct people cannot even say where a criminal lives now? Stop being so sensitive and looking for things to be offended about. Robn never said everyone from Newhallville is a criminal.
Robn
I must say I am sad to see your fellow liberals so ready to throw you under a bus for daring to speak the truth.
Posted by: facChek | May 7, 2008 12:56 PM
I too disagree with Robn's statement above and here below:
"heres a crazy idea....maybe people up on Ronan St who are paying twenty thousand dollars a year in property taxes do expect more police protection than the people down in Newhallville who are paying two thousand dollars a year"
First Robn's statement is NOT an idea it's a inaccurate statement. Home owners on or below the hill pay the same 70% of assessed value on their home. Home owners on the Hill do not pay 20K in taxes.
Example from the city web site:
Address: 77 LOOMIS
NEW HAVEN , CT 06511
Parcel ID: 219-0458-00800
Tax Year: 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993
Total Amount Billed: $11,945.26
Total Amount Paid: $11,945.26
Total Amount Unapplied: $0.00
Total Amount Due: $0.00
Lower Newhallville with 72% renters may actually be paying more since they cannot use state and/or federal tax deductions, and cannot sell for a profit. Additionally, many of the properties "on the hill"
are tax exempt and have other exemptions due to Yale and other Historic designations.
Actually, the people on the hill agree more police are needed down the hill, where the center of the problem exist, in hope of cutting the problem off a it's source. The most likely and agreeable solution.
It appears that Robn responded with haste and without putting much thought in to her/his words.
Edward_ H, Robn is not necessarily telling the truth based on fact, but based on a preconceived false notion.
So Robn... slow your roll, your headed down-hill.
Posted by: tired of it | May 7, 2008 12:58 PM
Every person in New Haven deserves equal protection. Just because someone pays more in property tax does not mean they should "expect" more.
And you are right the two came from Newhallville, big deal. Criminals come from every walk of life. Don't stand to high on that soap box, the fall can hurt.
Posted by: cedarhillresident
| May 7, 2008 3:49 PM
Ed I personally am not throwing Robn under the bus. Maybe I read the comment different than you did. First I luv Robn posts. Her/his opinion just differs than mine on this subject. I went back and read it a few more times to make sure I was not mis reading it....which I have had done to me on many occasions...and it still sounds the same. But as facChek stated maybe she just did not re-read it post for hitting that post button.
Posted by: robn | May 7, 2008 5:09 PM
Taxation is a form of a social contract and as such, everybody paying them should expect something in return...usually that something is civility....why shouldn't those paying more demand more?
And why shouldn't Newhalville as a community be regarded differently when three of it's youngsters commit such a reprehensibly violent act? I know my neighbors. I know their kids. I wouldn't accept sociopathic behavior. So did the Newhalville kids have an angelic existance for 17 years and suddenly, out of the blue decide to commit a psychopathic act, or did they behave badly in and escalating manner? Did anybody see this behavior? Did anybody do anything or was that bad behavior encouraged by community silence?
Posted by: Alex | May 7, 2008 6:29 PM
It is amazing that, when the predominately black on black crime in the neighborhoods spills over into the yuppie white area, that the white people finally get active and cry about crime in the city. I haven't seen any of these people helping the folks in the Newhallville area with their serious problems like unemployment, child care, lack of facilities, bad schools, incarceration/reentry and on and on. If they would venture into Newhallville and Dixwell and help the people out, they will not need as many police. There are so many parents and kids who need help over there it is ridiculous. Kids need mentors, parents need help with finances and jobs. Hey East Rockers - go help out, get involved, lend a helping hand! That's how to make your neighborhood safe.
Posted by: robn | May 7, 2008 6:51 PM
BTW facchek,
my original statement is hyperbolic, but not inaccurate.
notice the preponderance of million dollar homes on loomis and st ronan....
http://www.zillow.com/search/RealEstateSearch.htm#src=hash&ver=1&op=search&scen=s1&map=(Aw:AN72921597!As:41325561!Ae:AN72917326!An:41328304)&mode=(zoom:17!sortANdir:u!sortANparam:x17)
notie the preponderance of two hundred thousand dollar homes down the hill....
http://www.zillow.com/search/RealEstateSearch.htm#src=hash&ver=1&op=search&scen=s1&map=(Aw:AN72928754!As:41326849!Ae:AN72924483!An:41329592)&mode=(zoom:17!sortANdir:u!sortANparam:x17)
thats a 5X difference...whether or not very high tax payers are entitled to prompt police protection and whether or not percentage of income trumps dollar amount, I'll leave to NHI readers to debate...open forum...please do attempt to throw me under the bus... They, like trusty NHI stories, come every twenty minutes or so.
Posted by: In The Hood | May 7, 2008 7:32 PM
First of all the people who were arrested did not come from Newhallville.
But that is besides the point here. What strikes me is that you are so focused on our differences.
It is so sad to me as an American citizen to hear it suggested on this page that some of you believe that you are greater Americans than the rest of us because you are wealthier, pay more taxes and are better educated.
That is sad. ALL of our neighborhoods have all kinds of people including criminals.
I recall in East Rock the lawyers who ripped off elderly people for millions, in Westville and suburban CT, cops who were on the take; the whitecollar scam artists from Fairfield County who destroyed the lives of thousands by their theft.
The Cheshire and Plainville criminals who raped and murdered 2 teenage girls and their mother.
The serial killer who was recently executed in CT for raping and killing over half a dozen surburban teenage girls.
The well educated Mayor who paid a prostitute for sex with 2 underage girls
The prosecutors who were stealing from charity funds; the pedophile physicians..and priests..I could go on!
We could say something is indeed wrong with those neighborhoods.
But I do believe that the people of Newhallville would look simplistic characteristics and stereotypes and in fact see the commonalities we have.
We know that any real conversation about crime and protection must be focused on how we can all work together as one community versus which neighborhood has the more deserving residents.
Posted by: robn | May 7, 2008 9:11 PM
INH,
Sorry but maybe I'm being completely unfair since all I know is that the attackers were arrested behind the Wexler/Grant School.
http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2008/04/woman_beaten_in.php
So please share with us where the attackers were from.
ALEX
East Rockers and Ronan St people help less fortunate people every day, by paying huge amounts of property taxes that fund the police dept, schools, homelesss shelters, social programs and all sorts of other things that benefit less fortunate poeple. I think that its pretty arrogant for you to demand that they also volunteer to act as the parents of other peoples kids.
Posted by: Jack in the box | May 7, 2008 9:13 PM
I do spend a fair amount of time in Newhallville. There are many good people who live there. Employed, low-income, decent families. However, that community as a whole tolerates way too much. Widespread gang activity, violence and open dealing. It's been tolerated for years. By the people who live there and the police (as long as it doesn't spill out).
The people who live there may not have a lot of disposable wealth, but they're not stupid, helpless or all victims.
Posted by: What | May 7, 2008 9:14 PM
Robn,
Those guys who tortured and killed that family in Cheshire, where did they live?
Posted by: Chris Gray | May 8, 2008 2:24 AM
East Rockers and Ronan St people help less fortunate people every day, by paying huge amounts of property taxes that fund the police dept, schools, homelesss shelters, social programs and all sorts of other things that benefit less fortunate poeple. I think that its pretty arrogant for you to demand that they also volunteer to act as the parents of other peoples kids.
Robn, how is that working for you?
While never a parent myself, I have spent probably the majority of my free time in my life being at least a mentor to other people's kids. I've even apologized here for not always being the best example for them, but kids learn from your mistakes too.
Maybe this is what Clinton meant when she said, "It takes a village..."?
Posted by: robn | May 8, 2008 8:08 AM
WHAT,
I know that the Cheshire torture/killers were NOT from StRonan St or East Rock Neighborhood.
ITH,
If Samuel Evans and the other Loomis St attackers weren't from Newhalville, please let me know and I'll apologize to the residents of that neighborhood for jumping to conclusions.
Posted by: robn | May 8, 2008 8:34 AM
CG,
The operant term you're missing is "volunteer"...usually denoting that its a voluntary, not compulsory activity. I think its great that you volunteer to mentor, but I stand by my assertion to Alex that heavily burdened taxpayers shouldn't be expected to act as the parents of other peoples kids in order to feel safe. Thats not charity, its extortion.
Posted by: Steve Ross
| May 8, 2008 10:32 AM
"Taxation is a form of a social contract and as such, everybody paying them should expect something in return...usually that something is civility....why shouldn't those paying more demand more?"
Because tax is levied for a community in its entirety, not just a segment within it.
Posted by: Ned | May 8, 2008 12:20 PM
"Because tax is levied for a community in its entirety, not just a segment within it." LOL. Ok children, 3rd grade civics class is over; now go take your psychiatric meds...
Posted by: robn | May 8, 2008 1:56 PM
SR
It depends upon your definition of community but nevertheless, the various sub-communities of New Haven that make up the "entirety" don't burden the general fund evenly. I don't see St Ronan people lining up for social services and its a good bet that many don't send their children to public schools. So if they're willing to pay (significantly more than others) for less return on some aspects of city service, is it so much for them to ask for adequate police protection? If you rely on the argument that everyone should be treated equally, the end-game is a flat property tax and you really, really don't want to see what that means.
Posted by: Alex | May 8, 2008 3:00 PM
"East Rockers and Ronan St people help less fortunate people every day, by paying huge amounts of property taxes that fund the police dept, schools, homelesss shelters, social programs and all sorts of other things that benefit less fortunate people. I think that its pretty arrogant for you to demand that they also volunteer to act as the parents of other peoples kids."
First the kids who committed the crime were apparently from Dixwell and I said Dixwell and Newhallville need a lot of help. Your statement that the super rich paying taxes helps less fortunate people is sick. They are the ones who have the giant tax loopholes thanks to Bush. That you don't want to volunteer to help raise other people's kids is elitist, racist and isolationist. Those social programs that the rich supposedly fund need people of all colors working together to be successful. Also most of those programs are barely effective. Furthermore, a huge number of those kids don't have parents or the parents are locked up because nobody helped them when they were young and nobody gave them any positive role models. Cash isn't he answer to our problems, involvement is. Try it, it's more rewarding than getting rich!
Posted by: Steve Ross
| May 8, 2008 4:48 PM
"LOL. Ok children, 3rd grade civics class is over; now go take your psychiatric meds..."
Wow, Ned, you pose a great argument. Perhaps you can further your point by calling me a noob. Laugh-out-loud acronym!
ROBN, I believe that you initially said "maybe people up on Ronan St ... expect more police protection than the people down in Newhallville" because they pay higher taxes, not that they deserve "adequate" protection, as you've recently stated. Of course they deserve adequate police protection; this is my very point.
It appears to me that you're implicitly suggesting that richer people should be better protected than poor people. I find this both a curious and disturbing concept. Is this not your position, fundamentally?
Posted by: robn | May 8, 2008 5:16 PM
Alex,
I happen to agree with you about how screwed up the federal tax system is. I also happen to think that the state property tax system is royally screwed up becuase it considers homes to be the same as revenue generating commercial property; this system only benefits realtors, flippers and impertinant municipalities. Also, its absurb for you to to call a lack of volunteerism racist and elitist. Volunteerism is choice that one may or may not make. I volunteerr but I don't demand that others do it.
SR,
My fundamental position is that wealthier neighborhoods have very good property upkeep, use few social services, put low burden on the general fund and are reliable heavy taxpayers. They deserve the confidence that the policing in their neighborhood will be apportioned so as to prevent kids from barging into their front door and hitting them in the head with a baseball bat. Is that fundamental enough for you?
Posted by: Edward_H | May 8, 2008 10:09 PM
Alex
That you don't want to volunteer to help raise other people's kids is elitist, racist and isolationist.
Would you mind explaining how not wanting to volunteer to help raise someone else's child is racist. Your assumption of ROBN being a racist in this matter is unsupported by any fact or logic. Show us some facts or reasoning before you begin name calling.
Robn
I knew it was just a matter of time before one of your fellow liberals called you a racist. Originally I thought it would take at least a week. I gave them way too much credit.
P.S. Am I seeing you become more conservative as time goes by or is someone impersonating you? :)
Posted by: Chris Gray | May 9, 2008 2:51 AM
Robn, I am glad to read that you volunteer and I have never viewed your comments as racist. I, in fact, volunteer in many ways but my involvement in the lives of other people's children was not a choice.
To simply navigate through life in New Haven (and I presume, elsewhere) one is always coming into contact with other people's poorly raised children and it behooves one to develop relationships with them and to try to contribute to, at least, their spiritual enrichment in what ways in which one is capable. Thus, on further encounters one meets a friend.
I have had the terrible misfortune of being liked by horrible criminals who never had a thought of hurting me and terribly hurt by complete strangers, but I have been more often protected and sustained by the many friends I have made living in this city. Every kindness I have ever offered has been returned many fold.
Posted by: robn | May 9, 2008 8:36 AM
EH,
thanks for the concern. Liberalism is about liberty and theres nothing quite as far from liberty as having your home invaded and getting hit in the head with a baseball bat.
CG,
thats a nice story and I'll bet theres others like it...but an incident like this is especially ugly. The reactions I'm hearing from my fellow NHI readers is to respond to this attack by throwing resources at the assailants neighborhood rather than the victim's; that's just counterintuititve to me. Its like trying to empty the ocean instead of putting your finger in the dike.
I've been a victim of violent crime like this and it breaks my heart to see this happening to a 55 year old woman; if I could trade places with her I would. I have very little tolerance for violent criminals or cultures that tolerate this kind of behavior. Part of my frustration is that a thrid criminal is still out there and I find it hard to believe that the threesome isn't known to their neighborhood. The Sicilains have a word for this and its called Omerta, or code of silence. Omerta seems to be alive and well in New Haven and its got to stop.
Posted by: Chris Gray | May 9, 2008 11:55 PM
The wisdom or lack of it in using dikes to cheat the sea will be proven in the future in low-land areas but, still, to break the grip of this new version of omerta emphasizing the possibility that the next victims might be one's own family, as in one of my stories above, seems more useful to public discourse than talking about the unused services of the overburdened tax payers up the hill.
We have a tide of violence hitting the city and, owing to our highly mobile world today, it is unreasonable to assume it will remain confined in discrete neighborhoods given the understaffing of our police department. We all need to work together to meet this challenge, not against each other.
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