New Haven Independent

Posted by: Dustin W. Gold | June 25, 2008 6:12 PM

I did speak with Melissa Bailey, but I was not quoted in this article. This is premature re-actuation. This is only a proposed decision - not the final decision. We will be in front of the full commission on July 9 to further debate the facts. The full commission makes a decision as a whole, and takes into consideration the decision of the hearing commissioner. Keep posted for the final decision.

Posted by: Gary Doyens | June 25, 2008 6:47 PM

A ruling for secrecy.

Year one was paid for with a grant. What grant is being used to pay for year 2? The cost is $220K.

Kica Matos promised no tax money would be used for this program. Is that still the case? Or is this a broken promise?

Posted by: BrokeinWestville | June 25, 2008 8:42 PM

Thank you Gary for bringing up the issue of this program's "mysterious" funding!!!! Everyone is so focused on the controversy of the whole ID program, you never hear the details of who is paying for this.
Independent-How about digging deeper to see where the dollars are coming from? I'll eat my shoe if the NH taxpayers are not footing the bill somehow.

Posted by: Dustin W. Gold | June 25, 2008 8:46 PM

Mr. Doyens,
I sent FOIs to the City in regards to the grants two weeks ago and have not received a response thus far. It is amazing how difficult it is to get information from the City.

Posted by: -fairhavener- | June 25, 2008 8:50 PM

It's a broken promise that's for sure. Chalk up one more for elitists making themselves notorious at taxpayers expense. When's the next soiree to celebrate yourselves? Can I come?

And guess what, you think our drivers licenses and state IDs are confidential? Good luck with that. I'll bet those Municipal ID records are top secret for not too much longer.

Posted by: iwasthere | June 25, 2008 9:06 PM

the taxpayers of new haven are paying for the idea. it is in the the 2008 and 2009 budget. the city of new haven will be paying for the id. the budget was past by your aldermen and women and now the citizen of new have are paying for the id this year take a look in the budget and you see it hidden. thankyou citizens of new haven for not going to the budget meetings and allowing the id to continue for another year using your tax dollars. no private funding was found to support the id as of yet.

Posted by: jo | June 25, 2008 9:44 PM

I hope the future funding comes from federal public safety grants because that was what the ID was supposed to be for - to relieve undocumented from having to carry cash and becoming crime targets.

as a crime initiative, i would have put it second or third behind guns and youth intervention

Posted by: shill at city hall | June 25, 2008 11:42 PM

DeStefano tried to do 2 things when he intoduced ID cards. He wanted to protect illegals from abuse. He wanted attention nationally at a time when the democrats were lining up for Hilary or Obama. This he hoped would get him to Washington. The 1st thing is good as a human rights issue for illegals. It has alienated people who have been economically damaged by giving illegals equal rights to born Americans. In New Have the poor have suffered. This means Afro Americans have been forced from jobs by illegals. Is this right? You live in the country for 4 5 or 6 generations then other people jump the line as its politically expedient. Your employment goes to others who do not even speak english. Now DeStefano does not think ahead. Hes tried to help some but at great loss to Americans. Now is he going to Washington. That is unfair.

Posted by: AJMC | June 26, 2008 1:43 AM

Lets use a hypothetical here. So lets suppose I'm a criminal or a susupected criminal, my court records, including my full name are a matter of public record. Regardless of weather or not I'm guilty or innocent, everyone can see what my name is, when and where my next court date is, and what I was arrested for. It public information. Isn't that a safety risk to me. Yes it is, but the publics right to know about my hypothetical arrest is more important then my personal safety, or so it seems.

Lets again suppose that I was a scum bag child molester / sex offender. Even though I may have went into sex offender treatment, and served my time for a sex offence (which has an incredibly broad range, yes, squeezing a girls butt in a bar is considered a sex offence) The law says not only must I register as a sex offender in the town I live in, but that my home address is a matter of public record. Why, because even If I never commit anoher sex offence for the rest of my life, the law says that the public should know that 10 years ago, I grabbed a girls butt in a bar. Heaven forbid the brother of the girl wants to kick my own arse for touching his sister, fear not though, he can readily find my address on the sex offender web site. Again, any concern about my saftey is userped by the publics right to know my backgtound.

So here we have this nice lil Elm City ID card. I dont know, I think I have a right to know if any one who has one is in my state and country illegally. Last time I checked it was a federal crim to sneak into the country. But wait, suspected federal felons no how a right to privacy? Ask yourself who's worse, a drunk 21 year old butt grabber in a bar, or an illegal criminal border jumper.

Posted by: new havener | June 26, 2008 7:43 AM

asmj
i agree with you what the hell happen to the laws....you go on line and see photo's of the sex offenders and were they live.....nothing on the illegal immigrants in new haven...5000 just in the fair haven sector..don't tell me some are not criminals...to me they all are the word illegal..were is the money coming from to support these immigrants..excuse me undocumented is the word they use.. they drive cars not registered..no insurance...no nothing...police are not to stop them..boy the mayor made a laughing stock of new haven..he should be arrested for haboring fugitives..

Posted by: eastshoreguy | June 26, 2008 7:49 AM

AJMC you make no sense at all. Butt grabber? Wth?

I can see the logic in protecting the personal information of people with the cards. I have not gotten a card yet but probably will. I was born here in the USA and can see value in a municipal id card, like that of beach card or a park card.

Sorry I just do not see what the big deal here is with the card.

Gary raises a good point on the funding are they using private dollars once again?

Posted by: donna | June 26, 2008 8:21 AM

eastshore guy
to go to lighthouse all you have to do is go to parks and rec's show them your legal registration for your car and they give you a season pass for free...cmon give us legal ones a break.. and if you go to traficc and parking you can buy a card for the meter parking.

Posted by: Big Word Guy | June 26, 2008 8:43 AM

That Dustin Gold is so funny. He uses big words in meaningless ways -- reminds me of that prison skit on In Living Color.

"Pre-mature actuation" -- sounds like he was so flustered that he confused some other issue he is having with this one.

Tic. Tic. Tic. Seems like his Clarence Darrow act did not impress the real lawyers. Tic. Tic. Tic. What is that sound?

It's someone's 15 minutes of fame coming to an end.

Posted by: True New Havener | June 26, 2008 9:03 AM

All of this hateful commentary makes me just want to say . . . welcome back bigots. We haven't heard from you all in a while. Let the nonsense that is the Indy's comment section on this issue begin.

I love the fact that the Indy comment section was actually used against Dustin Gold at the hearing. That's right, Paul Bass testified that he received comments encouraging violence against immigrants. Then he compared Mr. Gold to the Council of Conservative Citizens, a white supremacist organization. Your beloved venue actually did you in. Poetic justice.

Hmmm. Now its about the taxes. So to all of the tax experts commenting here, do you actually know something we don't know? Is the ID card in the general fund budget approved by the Board of Aldermen?

Maybe you can show where it is in the general fund budget. I mean you go to all the hearings, you know best what the city needs. It must be in the general fund budget right? Otherwise you would have no gripe. (For all of us non-tax experts -- the general fund is the budget paid for by us taxpayers.)

Gotta go -- off to the taxpayer supported public library in my neighborhood to use my New Haven Municipal ID to check out some books. I'm thinking "Why We Can't Wait" by Dr. King and "The Fight in the Fields: Cesar Chavez and the Farmworkers Movement" by Ferriss and Sandoval.

Posted by: Bruce | June 26, 2008 10:08 AM

Yeah, I can see how...

"I have my Automatic Rifle ready to go an[d] won't hesitate to use it to kill these Rodents."

...might be taken out of context. Maybe he had a rat problem at his home.

Everyone is really making a huge deal out of nothing. Just let them put their money in a bank for God's sake. Do you have to be a citizen to put money in a bank account? Aren't other "criminals" allowed to put money in the bank?

Posted by: eastshoreguy | June 26, 2008 10:52 AM

well said true new havener. thanks for words of clarity. i too love the fact that the blog commentary was used in the hearing. it just speaks volumes about the intelligence of 90% of the readership of this editorial e-zine.

present company excluded true new havener.

Posted by: Tom | June 26, 2008 11:23 AM

Not everyone who has one of these IDs is here illegally - lots of other folks have them. Bruce is right - the "out of context" claim is laughable.
But I do have an editorial question for Paul - why is it Gold's mug we see in the photo with this story? Please use someone else's - Matos? DeStefano? Foster (the attorney who is handling the case)? - when you do the follow up stories on the inevitable appeals ... for aesthetic purposes and, more importantly, to give credit to the achievers...

Posted by: Red Scare | June 26, 2008 1:12 PM

AJMC:

It is hard to believe that one would attempt to compare the crime of sexual assault with that of illegal immigration. A sexual assault is a violent crime committed against another individual, and thus, there is at least a rational basis for publishing the whereabouts of these offenders who are are living in the community. I cannot think of an analogous reason for publishing the names and addresses of illegal immigrants. Your tortured reasoning convinces me that the hearing officer made the correct decision.

Dustin: Your complaint that the ruling is not "full" because other exemptions were not considered is a hollow one. Once an exemption is found, there is no need to determine whether there is an additional one. One exemption is all that is necessary.

It was the conduct of opponents of the ID card program that convinced the FOIC that disclosure would threaten the safety of ID card holders. So, before questioning the FOIC's ruling, the opponents ought to look in the mirror.

Posted by: robn | June 26, 2008 1:32 PM

Dustin Gold looks vaguely like the ethnicity of people from the land of Zmrzlina....and you know what Zmerzlinites are like...they are

Lazy-don't want to get a job
Slavish-stealing jobs from americans for low wages

Stupid-they lack education
Sneaky-using their superior smarts to outwit us

Dirty-they smell and don't often shower
Slick-always wearing finely tailored clothing

So what i'm getting at is,.. has anybody checked Dustin for a green card?

Posted by: FairHavenRES | June 26, 2008 1:56 PM

Dustin Gold and his immigrant hate group, the Journal Inquirer and Chris Powell, have lost the FOI Case, but they and their hate live on.

Dustin Gold's over the top rhetoric and manipulation of public opinion has the mark of Dr. Joseph Goebbels, the famed Nazi minister of propaganda. This kind of whipping people up into a frenzy to have others do your dirty work points to a deeper issue of Mr. Gold's rage and deep seated resentment.

In his high school fascination with Marilyn Mason, to the point of dressing up like the metal rock star, Mr. Gold found a way of gaining attention. He has successfully transformed himself, it appears, to adult life, finding a new clique, not of GOTH youth, but of Fox News Junkies, who wrap themselves not in black clothes, but in the US Flag and nice new golf shirts and jackets to identify their hate group. (The brown shirts just wouldnt have worked for them.)

The deep seated rage and resentment manifested in high school by Mr. Gold, and which continues in his adult life, is really an issue for all of us to look at. The increasing sense of isolation that people have from one another breed a rage that is destructive to the fabric of our community and country.

When we don't know one another their can be no dialog. Slogans and flag waving are hardly a replacement for responsible civil discourse.

Posted by: Gary Doyens | June 26, 2008 4:28 PM

True New Havener - The city id program is in fact in the budget. It is unclear whether it is being paid for with general tax dollars or special funds, i.e. grants.

Mr. Rosconi said he was told by Matos that 12 - 15 grants were pending to cover the $220K expense. None had closed yet and he assumed the city id program would not be part of the general fund without an outside grant(s) as there was no room for it. That was in May.

After asking for an update on this question at several budget hearings, it has yet to be answered. Since Ms. Matos or one of her staff is presumeably reading this, it would be nice if they would provide the correct and final answer now that FY 09 begins in a few days.

As for your sarcasm for those of us concerned with never ending tax increases - this program represents an expansion of city services at a time when the city delivers hardly any of its existing services well or on budget. As one of the taxpayers who face a 14.6 percent increase in property taxes I object to adding programs without eliminating others that could act as an offset. The mayor refuses to set priorities instead, choosing to try and do everything, and ends up doing very little of it well.

This program, like others delivers murky results and is at its core, unaccountable. The only real measurement is how many cards have been issued. The city is now resorting to gimmicks like gas giveaways next month to induce participation. Since this program is really about illegal immigrants, the question is still open as to how effective this targeted program is in that community.

As for the card itself, I neither embrace or reject the city id card - I reject the absolute dishonesty with which it was sold and approved. Illegal immigrants could open bank accounts, wire funds, borrow money and receive mortgages at any one of several New Haven banks well before this card and its divisive outcomes. Fr. Manship, Matos and the mayor, Junta and others all knew or should have known this, and yet, they collectively agreed to take the most egregious and horrendous examples of criminal behavior and extrapolated from there that these heinous acts with victims who were illegal immigrants wouldn't have happened or would be less likely to happen in the future with a city id card. That's patently false.

Conversely, those in opposition let themselves run unfettered and uncontrolled at the mouth and via emails by allowing their emotions to overtake their common sense and what could have been reasonable opposition. There is no room for making threats and in fact, doing so, ended up contributing to approving another layer of secrecy and control in city government that makes those who govern us less accountable. While stupid and low class, it is noteworthy that none of the alleged threats was actionable by law enforcement.

There is nothing but shame for all of you on both sides of this issue who put rhetoric ahead of integrity. There is nothing to celebrate here.

Posted by: eric_sleeth | June 26, 2008 9:36 PM

I recall listening to the JK Morning Show last summer and hearing Mr. Gold make a public promise that he would "back-off" of the ID program, ceasing all objections and challenges IF Mayor DeStefano agreed to publicly declare that he would not assume a future leadership position at a bank or investment firm to be established by First City Fund Corp (original financiers of the ID program).

Prince John never announced that he would divest himself of any likely leadership position at First City Bank and Gold took him to task.

After shelling out a prince's ransom worth of taxpayer funds to a NYC law firm, the City Card Office, and an untold number of City Hall folk dropping to their knees and begging DEMHS Commissioner Thomas (who should be ashamed of himself) to invervene in the FOI hearing, I fully expect that there will be a huge party on the third floor of 205 Church St. in the near future - w/ DeStefano toasting his Shirley Temple to the launch of First City Bank.

I also expect that this unofficial ruling will stand after the 9 July hearing; though I also anticipate that this unfortunate ruling will be nothing more than a stutter-step for Gold and his organization.

Posted by: -fairhavener- | June 26, 2008 10:26 PM

Gary Doyens obviously invests much more time and effort into this than I lately, however, he makes the same points that I have been making all along, long before anyone else sane spoke up. The ID does NOTHING for undocumented workers. They could, AND DID, open bank accounts, shop at any local stores, pay for parking, take out books at the libraries, and go to our public parks well before this ID card. How many times do I have to write this?

(They (NHI, ID proponents, etc) keep saying how the ID card was set up to help illegals open bank accounts so they won't get robbed, yet we never see any statistics on the decrease in muggings of illegals.)

The ID card has done nothing more than bring notoriety to the people behind the ID card. NOTHING MORE. The people behind this are sick elitists with only their self interest in mind.

You want to accuse me of bigotry? I have more illegal immigrants as friends than I do legal citizens (I have no idea how this happened, other than I must suck as a white, elitist american). In fact, one of my best friends and half owner of my/our business is an illegal immigrant from Guatemala. It turns out, you can be a partner in an LLC without being a legal resident, go figure.

So, all you elitist, wannabe illegal lovers, but not really, just loving yourselves and the fame and/or good feelings you get from fake causes, bite it. The ID card only serves your purposes.

And apparently, now we the taxpayers have to pay for YOU to get publicity for your narcissistic cause and feel good about yourselves. Again, when's the next party to celebrate yourselves, I'll be sure to drop by with my illegal crew.

Posted by: the two of us | June 27, 2008 12:23 AM

these illegals are all living together. there was a fire months back in New Haven on Main Street in a 2 family home across from Mc Donald's. there were 72 people living in that house. the owner was equidorian. Everyone got out safely thank God. and you never heard anymore about it! there are housing codes regarding the # of people living in a dwelling. and that is not being enforced. also ...

Posted by: the two of us | June 27, 2008 12:28 AM

RE: last post. I think it was 42 people living in that house. not 72. i still may be wrong. but I know there were more than a few families.
what about housing for these people.
we can't even afford these rents and taxes on cars and everything. how the hell are they doing it?????

Posted by: True New Havener | June 27, 2008 2:02 AM

This just to the tax-a-holics. Still not sure how this concerns you in the least.

The card is not paid for out of the general fund. A new general fund budget passed for the new fiscal year and that does not include the card either.

The New York lawyers were pro-bono.

Really, go complain about a substation, senior center or something.

This has nothing to do with taxes. So if that's what you really care about, go find another Independent article to comment on. If it is just a pretense well then nuff said.

And as to Fairhavener -- why don't you ask all your supposed undocumented friends if they like being called "illegals."

And as for narcissism -- maybe you need to re-read your incredibly self-referential comment and then go get a dictionary.

Posted by: Dustin W. Gold | June 27, 2008 3:08 AM

To everyone paying attention to this issue, and obviously reading these articles, I would like to make it perfectly clear that I, nor any member of CWP, has ever made a threat or racial comment to/about anyone.

It was never claimed during the hearing that we did so. The comments that the reporters are referring to were mainly anonymous emails sent to City Hall from across the country. One of the "threats" was actually made by Hal Turner, a proud racist internet radio host.

The question that we brought up continuously during the hearing was that if the City knew that Hal Turner made these comments, and they know who/where he is then why did they not file charges against him.

That is not what our organization is about, and we denounce any statements made by these people. We are not anti-immigrant, in fact we have several immigrants in our organization and my grandmother is an immigrant from Japan. We don't even take fault with the illegal immigrants. I thought that we have made it clear that we believe that the elected officials that encourage illegal immigration are the exploiters.

I have three FOI requests into the City related to the ID Card and it's 08-09 funding, and the City has failed to even acknowledged receipt of the requests. This is turning into a dictatorship. The Mayor clearly has no respect for the citizens or the illegal immigrants.

Please people wake up, and stop blaming us - we're not the problem. The Mayor is attacking the messenger.

Posted by: Countdown | June 27, 2008 10:43 AM

Dustin:

Tic Tick Tic

14 minutes 33 seconds

Tic Tic Tic

14 minutes 42 seconds

Can you feel it coming? Seems like your 15 minutes of fame is almost over. May I suggest you be in touch with any of the following one-hit wonders:

Pinkie Tuscadero
Tonie Basil -- The singer of that "Hey Mickey" song
Gerardo -- of Rico Suave fame

Whatever happened to them?

Maybe Telemundo could start a show -- "Behind the hate group" to reveal the true story of a rise to notoriety, the internal dissension just when it seemed like everything was going their way, the over-reaching efforts for fame and the impending crash and burn. If you got some drugs and recovery in there you got a shot kid.

Possible names for that episode:
"Marilyn Manson impersonator Buys A Suit"
"What's Up With That Hair On Your Chin?"
"Web-Cam Bigot: The Life and Times of a Modern-Day Fascist"
"We are not racists: we just don't know of any white undocumented immigrants"

Okay that last one wouldn't make much of a title for a tv episode.

14 minutes 47 seconds

Posted by: Bruce | June 27, 2008 11:55 AM

Dustin, Whether people from your group made these comments is irrelevant. If these names and addresses are made public, this information will be available to the nutbags who made racist and threatening comments. This would put the ID cardholders, many of them citizens and legal residents, at risk of physical harm. This is a valid justification for keeping them classified.

Posted by: ID card | June 27, 2008 12:22 PM

Fairhavener - I, like you, know many people who are of uncertain status here, and have heard from some of them that the ID card has not really helped them. It hasn't changed their lives, and really it doesn't offer them that much for all the controversy that it has caused, so I can see your point. Yet, others have seen it as something very valuable: it has given them a way to identify themselves, and it has given them impetus to be a part of society more. Yes, people could open bank accounts before, but I have seen more people opening bank accounts now because of the card. Yes, people could go to the library before, but the library near me has told me that, since the card, they've seen many, many more Latinos coming in, because people didn't know they *could* use the library before this, and having the card gives them the confidence to do so. I think people also see the card as something that establishes a measure of trust with them and the city police, so they are not as afraid to report crimes. I think we don't see statistics on this because the police shouldn't be notating people's status when they take crime victim's reports (part of the general order), so I don't think that's actually available, but I could be wrong. The card certainly doesn't do as much as I and others wish it could, but I think what it does contribute is still valuable.

A last comment in general - although I don't agree with many things Dustin Gold says, I hope that people on both sides of the issue will be able to talk about these things honestly and openly, without hatred and name-calling.

Posted by: withheld | June 27, 2008 1:03 PM

Fact - All of the computers in use in the ID processing (both located in city hall and for the mobile van) were purchased with general funds from FY07.

Posted by: thinker | June 27, 2008 1:18 PM

Question who supplied the monies for these cards..were in the budget did it come from...how many on the board voted against this...who are the backers for the gas next month on willow st. for $1.99 if you have the id card....how about people not living in the city stopping to get gas ..do they need to pay full price...will police be there or ice to check legal registration and licensenes...the city could make money that day just on that corner...again who are the backers enquirey minds want to know...

Posted by: Alphonse Credenza | June 27, 2008 2:09 PM

Sealing the records furthers the city's unlawful purpose: a municipal entity's contravention of federal administrative law, passed by the congress.

Where is Homeland Security? Why aren't they in federal court, suing the city for these records?

Posted by: Um Thinker | June 27, 2008 7:26 PM

Are you just catching up?

"Were (sic) in the budget did it come from?" Special funds, specifically a grant from a bank.

"How many on the board voted against this?" 1, that's right out of 30, 1 voted against it.

"Will police be there or ice to check legal registration and licensenes (sic)?" Huh?

Who are the backers enquirey (sic) minds want to know?" Read above.

Just a little editorial comment -- I am glad that your comment did not mention the need for "these people" to learn English.

A little more thinking?

Posted by: Cap | June 28, 2008 4:02 PM

The problem with using "safety risks" as an excuse for government secrecy - in this case a refusal to disclose information about the ID program - is that it is a dangerous precedent which undermines our sunshine laws and emboldens government to maintain secrecy about its activities and shield them from public scrutiny. The same justification can be used (and indeed it was used) to attempt to invalidate sex offender registries and a host of national security practices and policies. Being inconsistent on the issue, because you have a bias in one case and an interest in a favorable outcome for a pet cause, can come back to bite you. Left-wingers howl when government (particularly the Bush administration) uses public safety arguments as an excuse to withhold information from the public. It does smack of hypocrisy. Left-wing protesters decried a court decision prohibiting them from coming too close to VP Cheney during a speech he made here. The government cited the safety risk to Cheney and the need for a "safety zone" for him keeping protesters at a distance. In that case, involving the safety of the Vice-President of the U.S. no less, leftists ridiculed the "safety" rationale as a basis to deny them their own rights to engage in meaningful protest. Here the city was using safety threats which were grossly exaggerated and which, by any sensible measure, could not fairly be serious. We let criminals, even murderers, go free if their Miranda rights are violated, and that practice poses a far more serious and real public safety threat. But that is the price we are willing to pay for adherence to the rule of law.

Posted by: -fairhavener- | June 28, 2008 11:10 PM

ID CARD,

Thanks for the sympathy, or understanding, but the only people I have read or heard about benefiting from that ID card are the people who instituted it.

No? Then I expect to see pictures and stories about all the ID card holders attending the next party to celebrate the ID card and its success. Only one of my illegal friends actaully wasted his time to get one, but if he doesn't get an invite...

RE statistics, yes they are quite essential to proving the validity and success of of a city project. The city belongs to all of us remember that.

Posted by: GRINGO KID | June 30, 2008 12:05 AM

I'm having a difficult time trying to understand all of our representative coming to the aid of Non-American's. Maybe the deportation is aimed at the wrong people. Maybe we should round up all and I do mean all representatives that gave illegal immigrants all the free bies - circumventing all of our laws on immigration and our Constitution-placing non- American's on welfare and worse Social Security that not one American can get if they have less than 40 quarters- like me with 36 and can't get Social Security as I paid in over $40,000.00. Lets deport Congress/ Senators in 33 states- including Obama/ clinton's Chris Dodd, Lieberman, MC Cain , Kennedy/ Kerry / Pelosi- all our political traitor's.

Posted by: GRINGO KID | June 30, 2008 12:20 AM

We The People will be watching all politician's in Connecticut that have discarded their responsibilities to the citizen's of this state and when any of them start to feel like moving on up- it ain't gonna happen . Da mayor has achieved his highest office. and possible last stand- the wagons will surround him.His aspiration to be a Guv- are over ! This is how all law breakers of the law of the land should be met. They are not above the laws. they have circumvented all of them to strip All American's of their rights and the way to holdthem responsible is to vote them out of office !

Posted by: thinker | July 1, 2008 8:06 AM

To um thinker
gee you wrote everything i wrote .to offend me..didn't work...it's a new day..take a deep breath..ok..yea i know only i person on the board voted NO.....i give that person a lot of respect..after all the only one representing her party....she has her own mind...election is coming up..