New Haven Independent

Posted by: Deuce | June 5, 2008 12:41 PM

Good. Now an unemployed American can take the job.

Posted by: anonymous | June 5, 2008 1:42 PM

"Delfino's boss -- let's call him Mike -- has been a contractor for three decades. He has seen waves of workers, both immigrants and native-born, move through his operation. Most are good workers, he said, but he sees a couple of advantages to the current crop of immigrants, mostly undocumented, who make up his workforce these days.
First, Mike said, almost none of the immigrants have the personal or family problems that some of today's native-born workers bring to the job, such as drug and alcohol abuse and relationship issues.
Second, he said, many immigrants believe the trades are a respectable way to make a living, and are therefore more enthusiastic employees, whereas many U.S. citizens consider jobs like painting and carpentry low-status and therefore less desirable.
Mike said that after an initial training period when the workers make $10 to $12 an hour, he pays his employees at least $17 an hour. That's the same he would pay any good worker, he said. He said all the contractors he knows do the same."
Having helped run a small construction business in New Haven for many years I completely understand what "Mike" may have had to put up with when hiring local, resident workers. But at $17 an hour I think he could, in fact, find employees that would be reliable and hardworking. And legal. Also, I am quite sure that illegal aliens have just as many personal issues as native workers do - perhaps even more. Their lives are very hard when they come here.
I have nothing at all against the immigrants who are working for "Mike", legal or illegal, but I feel that "Mike" and others like him are the biggest part of the problem we now face as we have an increasingly "illegal" workforce and fewer and fewer good jobs are available to American workers.
He notes "a couple of advantages" to hiring illegal immigrants, but fails to mention the economic savings he is enjoying by employing them. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he is not paying into Social Security or Medicare for them, or paying quarterly payroll taxes. I also would be willing to bet that he has not covered his worker's with Worker's Compensation Insurance. There is an economic incentive for him to continue to hire these workers that he fails to mention. If one of his worker's is hurt on the job, does Mike pay the emergency room and doctor bills out of his own pocket? What about lost wages if they unable to work for a few weeks? Or physical therapy if they need it? If a painter falls off a ladder from even 10 feet up he can be seriously injured.
Also, Mike does not have to be bound by any labor laws.
Many small construction and painting companies try to avoid making those payments even for "legal" workers, but the truth is unless the workers can prove they are independent contractors (i.e. having their own insurance and tax id number) the employer should be, by law, covering these costs.
Many small contractors have gone out of business in Connecticut rather than breaking the law and exploiting worker's to stay in business.
When "Mike" keeps his company afloat by hiring illegal workers it affects all of us in various ways, and he may be the only one really reaping the benefits.

Posted by: Alfred Credenza | June 5, 2008 4:14 PM

You wrote:

"Mike said he understands why these workers risk so much to come to the U.S.: "They just want to provide for their families." He said if they stayed in Mexico, most could find jobs their families could survive on, but not thrive on. With the money they send back, they can build a house and provide some of the other material comforts that people take for granted here."

Then let then come here legally. Or hire the legal stiffs and train them for your job. There are over 3 MILLION people living in Connecticut. You can't find two good painters? Maybe you haven't looked.

Posted by: What? | June 5, 2008 6:15 PM

This story is so typical of NHI reporting. Did the two workers state that "Mike" was such a good boss in front of the Mike? Did the reporter see an actual paycheck that confirmed that the workers were being paid what Mike says he was paying? Did Mike pay payroll taxes, ext on the workers? I bet not. And I bet that NHI will not respond, or follow up. They will let this story sit like it is gospel, we all are supposed to believe in the religion of ILLEGAL aliens and open our hearts, and pockets, to make their lives better, while thousands of African Americankids stand on street corners becuase they are not given a break.

Posted by: kris | June 5, 2008 8:29 PM

Oh come on people...we need to admit that mexicans are hard workers.They arent afraid of hard work and long hours even 7 days a week.If the unemployed americans wanted this painters job they could have had it...he just got here 5 years ago.The illegals coming here was a slow thing over the years and now americans want to complain they cant get a job cause the illegals are taking them all???What was their excuse before we started getting flooded with mexicans. This group of lazy americans either dont want to work cause the can rot on welfare their whole life or they complain its not enough money.They always blame someone else why they cant get a job.All the crime,drugs and shootings in new haven is caused by the legal american citizens NOT the illegals cause they are too busy working and sending money to their families and saving money unlike new havens unemployed.They are grateful to have a job and dont have that "the world owes me attittude".Look in the homeless shelters,mostly filled with middle aged healthy lazy drug addicted welfare collecting american men NOT mexicans.Look at who owns all the gas stations and convenience stores in this country,people who are willing to work 247.Americans used to own them all.Why did the americans sell them to all these pakastanis?Did they steal them like they did our jobs?

Posted by: omerta | June 6, 2008 8:10 AM

Bass is a social crusader, not a journalist. This is a non story to push his agenda. So what if two illegals go home. I bear them no nmalice for trying to improve their lifes. I'm happy they've gone though, as the jobs will now go to AMERICANS.

The problem with articles like this is they draw attention away from the important issues that affect all AMERICANS in New Haven. To know what is going on you must read the Register and Advocate. You cant rely on this site.

An example. Thr Register reports that the city just settled another $1,000,000 lawsuit on the downtown fire. Important for all us AMERICAN taxpayers. Not a mention in the Independent.

Come on Bass. You can do much better than this.

Posted by: Newbie | June 6, 2008 10:22 AM

What?, I give your comments no credit, your still spewing the same unfounded hate for immigrants you did in the ARTE article.

So let me see, when I was living in New Orleans after the hurricane and helping the city rebuild, who was gutting the houses and shingling the roofs in 100+ heat? The hard working Americans who - poor me *gasp*- can't find jobs? No! Those "hard working Americans" were sitting on their porch across the street drinking 40's and watching the immigrants put their city back together.

Through my role as a relief fundraiser I asked several contractors why they weren't employing New Orleans natives or other Americans. They replied that they would love to see citizens taking an active part in rebuilding, but they simply had no takers, and as the contracts piled up, they had to take the immigrant workers coming to town, not because of lower wages, but because NO AMERICANS WANTED THE JOBS!

So there you are, until we Americans consider the trades and manual labor a respecatble way to earn a living, the spots will go to immigrants who are more than happy to put in a full days work.

And yes, some contractors are sleazy and like the savings they make off immigrant workers, but aren't these overwhelmingly American contractors exploiting the immigrant work force. Shouldn't we be taking our aggression out on these greedy Americans rather than honest, hard working people who just want to send money home for their families to have a better life. Next time you hear of immigrants being hired over an American, blame the person doing the hiring, not the immigrant. After all, don't you think if our business owners stopped hiring illegals and made immigrants go through proper legal venues, the immigrants would either file for citizenship or go back home. If they couldn't find work here so readily, from Americans looking to exploit their labor, they wouldn't be coming in the first place.

In conclusion, if your going to bash immigrants, don't hide behind your flag and claim your defending all those poor Americans being put out of a job. Say it like it really is, RACIST XENOPHOBIA.

Posted by: What? | June 6, 2008 11:27 AM

Newbie,

First, there is nothin inherinently hateful about asking our law enforcers to follow the law, against ALL lawbreakers, not a selected few.

Second, the only one spewing hate on these pages are you. Your quote "Those "hard working Americans" were sitting on their porch across the street drinking 40's and watching the immigrants put their city back together." How racist is that.

Third, you are not the only person who worked in New Orleans, I did also. I saw the exact opposite you did. I saw illegal immigrants shipped in by the
dozens, worked at low or NO wages, and then left to their own devices when the projects were done. One example, an immigrant had worked two months without pay. When the project was done, the contractors drove him to McDonald's, brought him lunch, said the would return with his pay, and left never to be seen again. He returned to that restaurant for two weeks, hoping the contractors had made a mistake and left him by accident. This is one of hundreds of stories. These contractors didn't hire these folks because they were hardworking and Americans were not, they hired them because they were easier to take advantage of.

A comprehensive report on New Orleans post storm labor practices (http://www.advancementproject.org/reports/workersreport.pdf ) concluded, among other things:
The interviews of the more than 700 workers reveal disturbing patterns:
• Many African-American survivors of Hurricane Katrina are being shut out of reconstruction jobs due to failed housing policies, discrimination, and lack of transportation, among other services.
• Workers are living in unsafe conditions and many are homeless.
• Reconstruction workers are experiencing significant incidences of wage theft.
• Many reconstruction workers are working under hazardous conditions with no protective gear and no workers' compensation or healthcare if they are injured.
• Reconstruction workers report harassment

Instead of hurling names, why don't you get the facts first.

Posted by: Alfred Credenza | June 6, 2008 1:39 PM

"...because NO AMERICANS WANTED THE JOBS!"

I have read this so often that I'm coming to disbelieve it almost completely. In a nation of nearly 300 million legal residents, a small business cannot find sufficient reliable workers? This does not make sense at all -- but it does in the context of those who would support illegal immigration.

Posted by: MISS J | June 6, 2008 3:07 PM

People come on..why is there so much hatred toward illegal immigrants trying to make a better life? At the end of the day these are still people / human being with families they are trying to support. Most of them are not murdering, robbing or stealing, just making money and saving it.

Yes, we have americans here who some want the work and can and will get it. Then you have those that dont want to be apart of the hardwork. I would hire Mexicans not to take advantage but because i know my odds of them working hard will be very high....I applaud "Mike" for giving people opportunity for a better way of life. So what are we saying, we as americans can fight other countries wars but not employ people from other countries???

Posted by: What? | June 6, 2008 4:26 PM

We shouldn't be fighting other peoples wars either. What is this whole debate about? Why do you people insist on calling folks that call on enforcing the law hate mongers? I know why, because you have no legitimate argument otherwise. These people, the ones who cross the border illegally (mexican, romanian, canadian, I don't care what country or color), and the ones who hire them, are BREAKING THE LAW. What is so confusing about that? If you want open borders, tell your congressperson. What I truly hate are those people who can not articulate a legitamate argument, so they reort to namecalling (newbie, Mrs J). I bet you that Mike was not paying employment taxes for these people. And while he is not paying taxes, mine are going up every year. NHI, Paul, is he or is he not paying employment taxes? Is he paying his fair share, and are these workers? Tell the truth,it may set you free.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | June 7, 2008 1:50 AM

Kris
You are way off base with you bias statement
that this group of lazy americans either dont want to work cause they can rot on welfare there whole life.Did you read today that unemployment is at a all time high,I have people i know who work 20 years at bayer and are now laid off.Wake up we have a new breed of the poor and they are the people who jobs are being out sourced.How about the city workers of new haven who will be laid off soon,Did you see the report that you need to make 21.00 dollars a hour just to get a one bed room apartment in this state.Google in the nafta super highway and you will see how mexican trucks are taking away american trucks jobs.They even found out that some of those people
you talk about in the shelters are not people on drugs, But people who work full time and can not afford the rent for a apartment and iraq war veterans who can not find work!!!You also said that all the crime,drugs and shootings in new haven is caused by the legal american citizens,You need to read the FBI report on crime by Illegal Immigrants,MS-13 Mexican maffa which is on the up rise.As far as immigrant own
gas stations and convenience stores they are starting to go out of busines due to these high gas prices.So you need to stop with your bias statements that americans dont want work because those type of statements are not true!!!

Posted by: kris | June 8, 2008 3:44 PM

threefifths,..... unemployment rate is high for educated people.The people "rotting" on welfare CHOOSE not to work at DD,Mc Donalds etc... They didnt get laid off from these places! they quit cause welfare pays more or got fired or never worked in the first place.$21.00 an hour for a one bedroom?Where greenwich??Gimme a break..they are on section 8 paying 10% of the rent.And the shootings and crime...I dont need an FBI report ....I have the local paper and local news.And work full time but live in shelter...they messesd up somewhere that they didnt save for a rainy day.By the way, fast food places are always hiring but they aint workin for no little bit of money.They want lots of money otherwise workin isnt worth it.Pride? What pride?

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | June 8, 2008 6:30 PM

Kris
You need to read on this site Christine Stuart report on Housing still unaffordable which is where i found out that you need to make at least 21.00 a hour.You said unemployment rate is high for educated people,I dont what type of local papers you read and local news you look at,But all the newspapers i read and newsstation i look say the same thing and that is more people are having a hard time making ends meet.Have you seen he number of for sale signs in new haven?I know people who have save for a rain day and a thuderstorm came by and empty out there life savings,The news i saw the other day more americans are working long hours and two and three jobs to make ends meet!!!You duck my question about Illegal Immigrants and crime.You said people dont want to work,If this is the case how come i saw on world news there was job openings at a new cold stone ice cream shop for ten workers and there was six hundred people waiting in line for the jobs.So you need to get you facts together,People do want to work.P.S.
I forgot you are good with bais statments like the one you made about the woman with her nine kids!!!

Posted by: Newbie | June 9, 2008 10:48 AM

What? I considered clarifying my statment about drinking 40's originally but decided against it because I didn't want to imply that people would automatically think of my comment as demarkating a specific race or social grouping. No it is not racist, drinking 40's in New Orleans is a past time shared by all races, and social groupings, including at times, myself.

Now then as for your other facts:

I never said the workers were living the golden life. Yes they are being harrased, unfairly paid, injured, etc. etc. But who is responsible for their mistreatment? Contractors who hire them, mainly American Contractors, see my above comment for my view on them.

It is very sad that instances happen such as the man denied his wage, but again, who is robbing him of that?

And yes, it is true survivors of Katrina face difficulty in finding employment for various reasons, discrimination, transportation etc. Who is doing the hiring again?

And finally, how lovely that you came to help rebuild New Orleans for what? a few days, weeks, perhaps a month? I LIVED there, payed taxes there, and did all the other things you do here that seem to give you a sense of entitlement, for 3 years prior and 1 1/2 after. I decided to leave begrudgingly only because with my career the opportunites are more abundent here.

Go ahead, get your "personal experience" read your reports and statistics. I have an articualte argument, just because you can't wrap your mind around it doesn't make it less valid.

If you look at my argument, before trying to discredit me, you'll see we both agree that a key issue is the contractors exploiting these workers, skirting taxes and other legally established employee commitments, and benefiting from breaking the law at the expense of other taxpayers and the wellbeing of their workers. I'm simply saying, it isn't fair or productive to take it out on the workers, when the real problem is a broken governmental system and the greed and corruption of these contractors who exploit illegals. "And I bet you Mike is not paying employment taxes" Why I do believe that is comment made without checking your facts.

Another thing, I did not call you a name. I called your sentiments racist xenophobia, which I believe is a well founded conclusion. Miss J furthermore did not call anyone anything, or otherwise say anything that could ever be misconstrued as derogatory. READ the full comment before you reply.

Hows that for an "articulate argument"?

You have yours, I have mine. But why do I bother, your just gonna skim through it and make your own version in your head anyway.

Posted by: What | June 9, 2008 2:14 PM

Newbie;

Fact: I worked and lived in New Orleans for two years. You got me by a few, but it doesn't make you any more of an expert.

Fact: You claimed that I was "still spewing the same unfounded hate for immigrants you did in the ARTE article". I did not spew hate in either the ARTE article, where I just repeated that another poster had pointed out that the painting looked VERY similar to another one done by another artist previously, or this posting.

Fact: You called me a RACIST XENOPHOBE. If you look at any of my posts, not once is race mention, my issue is the legality of their status. Msr J stated that posters like me "hatred" towards illegals. You claim that my comments allow you to conclude that I am a racist. How about the comments I have made about this administration and the Mayor. If I disagree with the mayors policy on over spending, do I hate Italians. Just like I mistook your 40s comment for racist, so have you miscategorized mine. Again, I don't hate the illegals anymore than I hate you. I just don't think it is fair that only one side of the story is told, and that these folks are made it some sort of heroes. Mike is no hero, he is using these people, and gaming the system by not paying his fair share of taxes. Why don't you insist that NHI do that story, since you seem to agree that some of these contractors are bad.

Fact: If you read the report I referenced, you will see that it was written by Pro-Illegal alien groups/supporters.

And by the way, I liked your argument/post, even though I disagreed with many of your points.

Posted by: H P Wall | June 9, 2008 11:29 PM

There is one question neither side of this argument never adresses and that is how many do we let in? If we let 12 million stay now? How many will we have to let stay in 15 years from now 40 million? There was a poll taken back in the early 90s in South and Central America when times were better then than now, that asked how many would immigrate to USA if they could and 60% said they would. 60% is now about 300 million.