New Haven Independent

Posted by: David Streever | July 16, 2008 12:15 PM

Can't the bars just stop blaring the music outside? Honestly, if I'm sitting outside to drink, I'd probably just prefer having no music. I'm there for the warm summer nights & friendship, not to listen to what someone else thinks is "great music".

I'm glad that the police will be providing a presence at Gotham: I hope Gotham is paying for the overtime!

Posted by: Cheri | July 16, 2008 12:36 PM

If I was a business owner with outdoor seating, I'd be livid that the city and/or NHPD forced me to send my customers inside at 10p.m. There are a few months of warm weather a year around here when you can greatly increase your business with the extra seating outside...and what are you to do when the inside seating is full at 10, and there's nowhere for the folks who were sitting outside to go? I would strongly support the turning off of music on outside speakers at 10p.m. but it's ridiculous to force restaurants to move their patrons around...just tell them to quiet down! If they can't behave, they can leave!

Posted by: TrueBlueCT | July 16, 2008 2:02 PM

This is a positive development. As a downtown resident, I think the people who live in the south of Chapel neighborhood should have more of a say as to what passes as acceptable conduct.

Certainly it will help that Chief Lewis is now my downtown neighbor. Hopefully he won't put up with the same noise and nonsense that the rest of us have been forced to suffer.

Then of course there is Zoo Haven, the out-of-control, near riot atmosphere which is Crown Street on Thursday, Friday & Saturday nights.

What I suggest is simple:
1) Several undercover patrols to curb the worst behavior via more arrests.
2) Stricter enforcement of New Haven's noise ordinance.
3) Having downtown close completely at 2:00AM, when the bars empty out and the heavy police presence disappears. (meaning no after-hours clubs, and having the late night food joints either close at bar closing time, or employ extra-duty officers as they do at Cody's.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 16, 2008 2:59 PM

David I am with you. You sit outside so you don't have to talk over the music. So just 86 the outside speakers totally.

Posted by: JP | July 16, 2008 3:52 PM

Wow 4 posts and I agree with all of them.
This is to good to be true.

Posted by: downtown d | July 16, 2008 5:12 PM

Cheri:

Please understand that if you were a business owner with outdoor seating, you are more than likely seating your customers on public land. The sidewalk, for the most part, is owned by the city and the city gives licenses for outdoor patios. These licenses can and do come with restrictions. On top of that, consider restaurants such as Marius that have outdoor dining on rented land. In cases such as this, there are rules governing acceptable behavior defined in the business's lease, and there are also rules set down by the condo-assocation.

There is also a noise ordinance in the books: http://www.cityofnewhaven.com/Mayor/ReadMore.asp?ID={41FD0022-E2D7-498A-8B72-000D39BBBD4B}

And I'm guessing there are additional ordinances on the books for use of outdoor speakers (if they are softer than 50 decibels). If you are interested in learning more, please come to the August Community Management Team meeting.

And to respond to a few more of your points: There is a reason the fire marshall has a capacity limit on businesses. It's a matter of public safety (patrons, business owners, property owners, neighbors, etc) that the number of patrons are limited. If your business is full at 10pm, that's great! If you want to be able to serve more people, rent a bigger space. And outdoor patios are allowed provided the rules are followed. Look at Chow and a number of other patios that do not cause a problem. And your final sentence is correct: if they don't quiet down, they leave. That's why police tend to usher them back inside the business so that the business isn't lost.

TrueblueCT: Great dialogue so far! What else do people think are the behavior-limits we should accept as a city for club and bar goers? Keep brainstorming, good will come of people genuinely sharing their ideas.

Posted by: anon | July 16, 2008 5:16 PM

Trueblue, would that be "SoCha"?

Posted by: TrueBlueCT | July 16, 2008 8:32 PM

SoCha, is that with a hard "K", a la mocha, or more of a cha-cha-cha?

Anyway, the neighborhood does need a name. What is it called now, the Arts & Entertainment District?

Posted by: Cheri | July 17, 2008 10:27 AM

Downtown D:

I don't know why you addressed me in particular, as if we disagree...I, too, am referring to the places like Chow, who, I think, run a very respectful outside bar...also Temple Street Grille. I'm not getting into the rules of capacity here, not the issue really, but the noise factor, and the public behavior at these places with outside seating. All these places should enforce the noise ordinances, and if they don't, they can face the consequences through fines, etc. But I will repeat that as someone who lives downtown (I do) and really enjoys the summertime outdoor seating in our city, that I'd be very sorry to have to get pushed indoors just because of a few loud patrons. Additionally, the music should be off if it's disturbing residents downwtown.

Posted by: Downtown D | July 17, 2008 12:31 PM

Cheri:

I apologize if my previous post sounded like an attack; i wanted to comment on things you were saying because I felt they would be misconstrued by others if they read them. for instance, your first sentence insinuates (not your intent, i understand, which is why i wanted to comment on it) that police force customers inside regardless at 10pm. i don't believe this is the case (as it indicates in the article), and i wanted to clarify that police are not stopping a business's right to operate legally. i will ask lt. marty regarding this and get back to the discussion.