New Haven Independent

Posted by: FIX THE SCHOOLS | July 8, 2008 9:38 AM

Fantastic, Alders Sandman and Lemar!

It's about time. Keep peeling back the layers of the onion. Use the BOAs chartered powers to influence the direction of the contractual negotiations and uncover the corruption of this city's government.

Will this mayor ever be caught with his hand in the till, or be convicted of some other jailable offense? No. He isn't a criminal. But, he certainly is guilty of playing old school Chicago-style politics, which has led to an impending financial catastrophe for city taxpayers and a life of needless poverty on thousands of poor children who could have made it had they been in better schools.

The municipal contracts with police, fire, and especially teachers, are exorbitant especially when one considers the quality of the services that New Haven receives. The police dept. is steeped in scandal(Where is Cavaliere on that one?) and yet they can justify a system which allows you a lifetime pension at 45 years old? If you know a cop personally, just ask any of them and if they trust you they'll tell you that it's a GREAT deal....and that they can game it.

As for teachers, have you seen the lavish teachers retirement plan? it's not even close in the the private sector.

Thank goodness that someone is getting a hold of the finances. Some advice for the alders: Establish a real evaluation process, not just for this contract but for all contracts going forward. Write into law a requirement for an objective analysis that includes: peer comparisons from around the country; performance based budgeting; tie individual performance with higher compensation and recognition. Shift the pay scale towards the newer officers to bring in the best and brightest. Promote on merit, not on tenure.

And don't be cowed by the bullying attitude of hacks like Cavaliere. (If his quotes are accurate, you shouldn't have any trouble mopping the floor with him.)

Then turn your attention to the biggie: The Teachers contract and the BOE budget...and be ready to take on some of your colleagues on that one.

Congratulations on taking a stand.

Posted by: WOW | July 8, 2008 9:40 AM

Damn ballsy move by Sandman, Lemar and Jackson- Brooks. I love the three of them for being so willing to to fight the good fight in the face of the police who are sure to claim foul. My opinion of these three just grew by leaps and bounds! Just don't go one mph over the speed limit or cross the street without a permit guys, or you are in the slammer!

Posted by: Good job | July 8, 2008 10:22 AM

The BOA's resident lefty liberal (Lemar) and ultra conservative (Sandman) agree to take on the NHPD union?

Will wonders never cease?

Good job guys - just don't expect me or anyone else to stand within 50 yards of either of you for the next few weeks!

Posted by: Ben | July 8, 2008 10:52 AM

Great work Sandman and Lemar,
6 figures for a police officer in New Haven?
That's ridiculous.

Construction workers have a statistically riskier career, have more skills, and get paid a third of that.

Unions are destroying the American City.

Posted by: fedup | July 8, 2008 10:59 AM

alderman antunes a retired detective 29 years on the force should do a lot more then he says..
he agrees with one change and not the others.he is a brother of the police dept.he got a good pension...he should agree on the cap.. lets be fair antunes once a cop always a cop.. you all work extra overtime just to put in in at retirement. he made $10.800 in 1974..then that was good money....what did he retire with ..
my hats off to the alders that are standing up and not afraid..god bless you guys .

Posted by: anon | July 8, 2008 11:27 AM

Yay! Finally, in an era where the average city resident is being evicted from his house because he can't pay the skyrocketing heating bill (and the state is cutting the gas tax so that their options of getting anywhere to work on public transit are even MORE limited), SOMEONE is standing up to the unions and their bullying tactics.

How about giving a little of the proposed savings back by giving police who live within the city limits a salary or housing bonus? The benefits of having a cop live in the city are enormous, but they won't when property values are so high. Giving enormous pensions to suburban-residing union members doesn't benefit New Haven.

Firefighters and teachers should also get a housing/salary bonus for living here. The city could model it on the Yale homebuyer program and finance it by slashing union benefits by 50%.

Posted by: Gary Doyens | July 8, 2008 11:38 AM

This is excellent and long overdue. I hope the follow through is as good as the proposed changes. This cannot be a one time suggestion and then fall back on approving what you're given. I hope you go through every city department this way in the coming months. It's a first step and a really good one. There may yet be a reason to hope.

Posted by: jeffreykerekes | July 8, 2008 11:44 AM

Finally. And Congratulations. Talking about homeless shelters, libraries and other things is chump change in comparison to employee related costs. We need this approach with all contracts for unions and management. We thank the Alders for listening to us and taking these steps. No, we only hope they stick to this plan and not crumple under pressure when 100 police officers show up at there next meeting. We should pay our police and all our employees well and treat them well, but its time to reign in sweetheart deals regularly available almost no where else in the world. We know the NHPD allows cops to take their turns to maximize there few years to sweeten the retirement pot. It is not good for the city nor for the officers who work like 100 hours per week for those few years. How is your judgement then? This is not picking on protective services. The reality is the budget is about BOE 65%, Police 7+% and then Fire 7%. Everything else barely registers so these are the places we need to focus and the police contract is the first one open for negotiations.

Posted by: James | July 8, 2008 11:45 AM

I'd like to know how well ShotSpotter will work in the WEB district where the police range can be heard for miles around. How will they tell criminal discharge of a firearm from police range practice? I know that WEB residents can't. Incidentally, Mr. Sandman has all but ignored this issue. It's great to see him thinking at such a high level, but it would be nice if he actually addressed quality of life issues for his constituents. Playing big boy politics while ignoring those who put you in office is not such a good idea, Moti. But hey, you sure look important getting your picture in the paper.

Posted by: jeffreykerekes | July 8, 2008 11:49 AM

Paul, Roland, Andrea, or Moti:

What are some of/all of the sidebar agreements and how were they arrived at? Is this practice widespread? Who has the power to put them into place? Does this process circumvent the BOA?

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 8, 2008 12:20 PM

I agree this a a great step in the right direction. And as Jeffery said the ***t is gonna hit the fan, I hope you stand your ground, I will stand with you. But what I really hope is that you continue on the line of thought because we know what department is next....BOE! It needs to be looked at alot closer! And the positions in that department need to be reviewed on weather they are even needed ones! And I would love the BOA to look into changing some of the charters to give them some of the sayso they say they don't have! ACCOUNTABILITY for all departments in the city is a must! This is a great start! BRAVO!

Posted by: Webblog 1 | July 8, 2008 12:22 PM

What's all the hoopla about, these issues have been on the table for two budget years now and have been ignored by these same Alders.
In fact Lemar and Sandman led the argument in favor of the vote for the current 08/09 unbalanced budget passed in May, with a(10.6M HOLE).

Now they want credit for writing a letter to the city's labor relation director concerning how to negotiate this upcoming police contract. Please,
what they are not reveling is that they were previously briefed by the finance department and Hibson on how they anticipate handling these same issues. These two go out and try to convince the public that this is their idea. What a shell game sham.

The charter does not authorize Aldermanic input into the bargaining process, it only authorizes their approval or disapproval. Cavaliere is right on this one he called it an "out-of-line "attack"

I agree and add that this is grand- standing at it's worse. Sandman and Lemar, go back and sit down, on that "RUBBER CHAIR".

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 8, 2008 12:25 PM

PS Congratulation's on the nuptials Roland!!!

Posted by: robn | July 8, 2008 12:52 PM

Every once and a while I get calls from a policemens benevolent society looking to raise cash. Each time I politely tell them that I beleive officers should get justly compensated for their work from the public and not from individual contributions. Then I offer to review their compensation terms and if I find them unfair, to go to city hall and fight for them. I've never once been mailed their contract or compensation terms and maybe this is why. Cops work hard, but its pretty insane that in one of the poorest cities in a state with a per capita income of 43K, a sizeable chunk of the force is making 6 figures....plus pension, which NOBODY gets anymore. I guess what i don't understand is data like this...
http://www.theblueline.com/salary3.html
...whic puts New Haven police compensation at 34K-56K. How are officers clocking in at 6 figures? Are they working double time? doesn't this reduce efficiency becuase of fatigue? should they be using overtime as a gauage for pensison? hmmm?

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 8, 2008 2:51 PM

Webblog 1
I think in the back of all are heads we know this came from the higher ups. They know that the tax payers of New Haven have had it. And they want us to think that they are doing something. Which the union by this article is not going to even consider. But the way I see it is who ever's idea this was, shows that they are listening. Yes it may and will not happen but it is an indirect way of admitting that something is rotten in the land of New Haven. But it appears others were involved in this so.... I am giving them the benefit of a dought that may be an original idea. A letter! Here's one for you...Paul how does the public get involved?? Not at the BOA meeting when it is to late but while the negotiation's are happening?? This is our tax money we should have a say so!

Posted by: Tom14 | July 8, 2008 3:54 PM

There is only one part of this I agree with. The Bad Boy clause. You people have no idea what police and fire go through in the city of New Haven. They get no backing from the chiefs or the administration, they are expected to walk on water and solve crimes to which witnesses give them no cooperation, and lastly they work hours and holidays that the rest of us get to enjoy off.

Do you know what's going to happen when cops refuse overtime and road jobs? Everyone is going to bitch that there is a lack of police presence. If it is not going to there pension why should they work it? I almost forgot, how many of you that agree with the 2 alderman go to work and risk being shot at or dying in a burning building? Don't the men and women who protect us deserve to be treated fairly? They earn their money and they should keep it. Furthermore no one is holding the mayor or the administration at fault for his free spending. Last time I checked kids became better students because of how they were taught not how nice and modern the school building is. How many new schools does the city need?

Posted by: J Lowe | July 8, 2008 6:09 PM

Ok it sounds like someone wants to put more money into schools (AGAIN). Sounds like a teacher but you need to have students in the schools first. Why is it these guys want to stick their noses into police contracts when this City has a department who has a very small budget and gets paid less that all the other major cities in Connecticut. Other cities work a 5-3 5-3 schedule or work 4-2 schedule. The schedule the police in New Haven work gives the officer a break from people who call for useless reason unlike teachers who have the summer off. The Fire Dept works a 3 day schedule and shuts down a firehouse a night to give a break (from a grocery store?)
It makes me laugh how everyone wants to pick on the police who again have the lowest salary in surrounding cities.
The officers you refer to making $170.000 make far more than other officers. Mr. Sandman and Lemer should look at the average officers salaries and would see there are not many officers that make that much. The listing lists only the top ten. These same officers work overtime in dispatching or supervising positions. The retirement also goes by a fiscal year and the extra duty pay adds very little to the pention.
Please before people comment or add suggestions look into the facts before making opinions. Most officers that have retired retired at 50k. And when hiring new officers you can offer any amount it does not make a difference you will still get what you get.
You should look into what the new chief will make in his short time at New Haven Police Department when he leaves. (You want to talk about wasting money). Then the increase of assistant Chiefs please!!
This good Mayor screwed up years back when he froze the hiring in the police department making the department a skeleton crew requiring officers to work longer hours. The comments suggesting Mr. Sandman and Lemer to be carefful is uncalled for and unprofessional. This City has great police officers who are over worked.

Posted by: J Lowe | July 8, 2008 6:31 PM

Hey Robn I like to see how many officers (you say) made 6 figures because its not a sizeable chunk.Oh the Policemens benevolent society has nothing to do with New Haven Police but it raises money for fallen officer's families or officers who were seriously injured who dont have a retirement due to people taking the pension or decreasing the pension. hmm

Posted by: Ben | July 8, 2008 8:55 PM

Tom 14,

I think it's time to form a citizen's union to fight the unions.

I would bet that most people don't like their jobs and feel that they are undervalued at work. Those people are typically not good at their job and so in private enterprise they get fired or quit.

Maybe people don't want to become a New Haven Police Officer because its seen as a job position filled with dishonesty and bad work ethic.

Throwing more money at the problem will not help.

The unions are sucking this city dry and providing lazy employees to boot.

Posted by: Tom14 | July 8, 2008 10:12 PM

Ben,
I would venture to say that if you asked a police officer why they became involved in law enforcement, salary would not be top on many lists.Rather the oppurtunity to help people and job security would be more likely. Remember one thing, police and fire cannot strike therefore they are forced to work no matter how bad things get. Also keep in mind the police in New Haven do much more work for less or equal pay then surronding towns, therefore their benefits and pension is sort of an equalizer. As for lazy employees that is the fault of the chiefs and supervisors who refuse to discipline bad employees because of their political associations . Most members of police and fire unions dislike lazy employees. They put everyone's life at risk.

Posted by: xena | July 8, 2008 11:39 PM

As a long time citizen of New Haven I salute the efforts of the New Haven Police Officers. Words can not describe my gratitude. In my opinion they should be getting paid even more than what they are. They put their lives at risk every second they are on the streets patrolling and they seldom get a thank you. Many years ago, I lost a cousin on the line of duty. He was a police officer and he risk his life to safe another. Once again, to all the Police Officers and Firefighters as well, I thank you from the bottom of my heart and you deserve to get paid even more.

Posted by: Bob Abuey | July 9, 2008 1:28 AM

Tom14 hit the nail on the head!!! The New Haven Police have become too often of a scapegoat for the mishappenings of this city. From what I've seen, the cops in this city do as much as they can to keep crime under wraps. If we take too much from them, guess what - NOBODY will want to fill the positions needed. Cops have it hard enough, if the aldermen have it their way, there will be even less cops then there are now! So go ahead and take away the few benefits there are to being a New Haven Police Officer, We'll EASILY lose the streets to the thugs and gangsters who are trying to take the streets for themselves and their violent selfish wants. But then again, theres always the guardian angels to save us (hahahahaha)

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 9, 2008 8:29 AM

Ben, Well put.

What I can't believe is Cavaliere saying...
"....aldermen were sticking their noses where they don't belong."
How is this not an interest of the Tax Payers that the Alderman represent??? This guy is one shady m'n f'er. Dude...This is our money! And to top it off...as stated in the news more and more community's are having to set up their own citizen patrols. So we are doing alot of the work now on our own.And we do not get inflated pensions to do that. Now don't get me wrong I love our NHPD's and I am sure their work load is unmanageable, which is why we are having to set up community member on bikes and on foot. And I am sure they earn every penny they make...(refer to ben's statement on this)

A Cap on overtime that apply's to pension is not unreasonable! It is ABOUT TIME SOMEONE HAS SAID SOMETHING! The free for all is over!

Tom
their are other alternatives to some of the moonlighting jobs that officers do if they do not want the side work. Remember this is volentary they choose to take that work...so do not.

Posted by: Holligan | July 9, 2008 10:22 AM

Cedarhill

I enjoy reading this online article, and from time to time I have written a comment or two about stuff that interest me, but I have never have been mean or disrepectful ( my neighbor Fairhaven can attest ),but as I read your comments about Lou Cavilere I am disgusted.

For you to say a man with over 30's years in law enforcement , and a pillar in the West Haven, and New Haven community is shaddy without so much as meeting him or knowing his son's is down right pathetic and mean sprited. I am offended by your comment and insinuation that this man is anything but nobel.

I have had the pleasure of knowing Lou for over 20 years and am honored to call him a friend. Lou has always been there for people in our city, from donating funds for little leagues to toy drives. Shame on you madam maybe you should take a good look in the mirror before you comment on people's character.

And as far as Lou's comment on alderman putting there noses in this, he was refering to the fact that alderman are not involved with contract talks for any Union, so why now, it simple people if you know city politics Sandman is rubber stamping a propsal draffted by the mayors office. It's politics as usual, I hope they get a good contract, I don't want to see a mass exodus or 400 disgruntal cops ither. Good luck guys you got a tough enough job, and I for one relaize that the 20 year retirement is a must, policing is a young mans job and the stress you go through is not good for the mind or body.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 9, 2008 12:08 PM

Holligan
Hmmm you really read into that comment and even expanded on it as you saw fit? All I stated is he had a lot of nerve saying that they should keep there noses out of it! Who is he to say that the tax payer rep's have no right to make suggestions that would benefit the tax payers of New Haven??? And because he had the NERVE to say that it is none of our business I find to be an insult to the citizens of New Haven!! I am not mocking his work history at all! I am simply stating that it is our BUSINESS when it is coming from our paychecks!!
I do look in the mirror everyday and dang I scare my self sometimes.
PS I do more than just post insulting comments and read story's I am involved!! And I am fully aware that sandman in one of the Boucing rubber stampers of the city and Lemar in not to far behind him. But for a rubber stampers to see a problem is a big deal because maybe they are finally losing there bounce!

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 9, 2008 12:18 PM

PS Holligan
Big hugs!

Posted by: Gary Doyens | July 9, 2008 12:28 PM

Holligan:

I'm offended too - I'm offended that Lou's response to the city's fiscal mess, some of which can be laid directly at Lou Cavaliere's feet, was to pull a dollar from his pocket and hand it to the mayor. I'm offended that the first word out of his mouth is no. I'm offended that he refuses to endorse the "bad boy" clause and votes without exception to grant disability pay to corrupt cops who abuse the very people who cover their salaries and rich benefits.

Quite frankly, I'm offended he even bothers to criticize the BOA for trying to inject some sanity in union negotiations. The mayor never listens to the citizens - at least there is a small opening that some on the BOA are now making an effort in that regard. These 30 people, for better or worse, are the taxpayers' direct representatives. It's their responsibility. It's kind of surprising, actually, that Cavaliere doesn't understand that.

This city is broke - it has a negative net worth. And while the job the cops do is vitally important, the pay and benefit package has to be in line with our ability to pay it. We are maxed out and across the next four years, our property taxes will continue to escalate way into the double digits every year.

Cavaliere can adjust his thinking on this, or I say vote down the union contract at the BOA level and send it to binding arbitration. Let the arbitrator look at the city finances, the $430 million in unfunded pension and health benefits we've already accumulated, the more than half billion in bonded debt and see what he finds there.

Cavaliere may do plenty of good things around town, but he is hardly a friend to those of us who have to pay the piper.

Posted by: Nestor Makhno | July 9, 2008 12:51 PM

If the majority of private sector jobs did not lag so far behind public sector jobs in terms of benefits and pay, these expressions of class resentment would cease. Rather than whittle away at the benefits public employees receive, which is an uninspired race to the bottom, a better solution is for workers in the private sector to demand comparable wages and benefits. (Of course winning concessions from business always requires a fight, but the spike in shootings in New Haven suggests people are already more than willing to take up arms.) If the economy cannot sustain these extra costs, which may very well be the case, then perhaps it is time to abandon this ailing economic system that continually fails to meet the needs of the majority of people--and flat-screen TVs purchased on credit, my libertarian friends, do not signify a healthy economy.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 9, 2008 12:55 PM

pss.. You and I both no that the union will get what it wants...can't fight the union as they say. And not to many people will go up against taken care of our officers. Because after all it is a hard job.

Posted by: robn | July 9, 2008 2:35 PM

jlowe,

My "sizeable chunk" comment was beased upon this article....
"Nearly a quarter of the police department -- 96 officers -- made six figures in 2007, according to an article by the Reg's Bill Kaempffer. The top-earning cop was a patrolman who earned $174,000 -- triple his base salary."
Maybe you don't consider 25% sizeable, but I do.

As to your snarky comment about officers "who don't have a retirement due to people taking the pension or decreasing the pension" please don't morph this current conversation about fair pensions into something which you imply happened in the past.

This issue is about ONE THING... some officers artificially bloating their pensions by doing lots of overtime in their last four years before retirement. Its about gaming the system.

Posted by: Hooligan | July 9, 2008 3:25 PM

First off Cedarhill hugs right back at you, I get so tired of the b.s. politics in this town.

Gary, you simply don't know what your talking about, Cavailere made that gesture only because the mayor was asking to give nothing in the contract and take away monies they have. Would you stay at your job if your boss offered you no raise and then wanted you to give back money you got from your last raise (4) years ago, and by raise I mean cost of living 3 percent.

What other Union do you know have given back anything to the City.........I'll wait, as a Union Presdient would you work for a reduced salary?????, come on. And as far as people repeating how they made so much in overtime (Robn ), those officers got the bulk of that working extra duty ( road jobs ), paid for by the private sector, which by the way the City gets a large cut. Go get offended by that Gary

Posted by: Gary Doyens | July 9, 2008 4:36 PM

Hooligan:

All the unions should give back to the city or the city should take steps to cut the workforce and send union negotiations to binding arbitration.

Second, you are one of many who are quick to say I never know what I'm talking about. It gets old and it's insulting. I've worked for a union; I've negotiated labor contracts with unions; my wife belongs to a union and I have been subject to wage decreases - in fact, three years ago, I was given a 7% wage decrease and have not gotten a cost of living increase since.

And finally, those road jobs you talk about are paid for by the private sector - but those jobs are used to accrue additional pension benefits. The private sector doesn't pay for that - New Haven taxpayers do.

Posted by: robn | July 9, 2008 6:41 PM

I beleive that this article is really about a particular group of people who are gaming the system but I'd like to add a couple of more global comments to this thread.

To the unions...If the whole purpose of a union is collective bargaining and solidarity amongst the working class, then isn't it reasonable that unions share the public burden when times aren't so good?

To the city government...isn't it fair, if the city is asking for union concessions, to show that that concessionsa are shared across a spectrum of city departments and employees?

Posted by: che15 | July 9, 2008 6:44 PM

Can any person provide me with a report or direct me to the website which would show me what the city of New Haven spends its money on?
Do alderpersons do ride alongs with the police in areas that they do not represent?
If I am not mistaken (and correct me if I am wrong) police are on scen for every tramatic event in the city. A child is killed by a motor vehicle, which by the way I dont see any alderpersons clamoring about at the moment (I'm sure if it was a yalie on orange st or a rabii on goffe ter there would be quite the comotion I.E. south frontage road amazing how a dr was all the rage but a child not so much typical YALE retreds), police investigate. A person wants to commit suicide, who does the state think has the knowledge and expertise to commit that person, a dr NO the police. Scum terrorizing the elderly, the police take care of it, and rightfully so. God forbid a Columbine style shooting, yep the police, and rightfully so. DCF has to take a child from a home, cant do it without the cops. there is so much more. my point is the police are the swiss army knives of the city. we as citizens ask them to solve all of our problems. they stay here when yale programs fail or yale philanthopists leave. the city of new haven generates 3000 calls for service by the police daily. hate to tell people this but the police are gonna help you much more than any other person in city or state government except for maybe the fire department. cut the finest some slack. Good luck to all

Posted by: Name Withheld | July 9, 2008 7:40 PM

Kudos to Lemar, Sandman, and Jackson-Brooks.

I'm all for paying our educators, firefighters and policeman well, but the pensions are outrageous, and at their current levels, probably unsupportable.

Name another profession where, if you are a loyal soldier, you get given gobs of over-time to inflate your pension base! Really, name me one.

Sure an experienced officer should get paid $60-75K to patrol our streets. But to get paid that much or more after retirement? Incredible!

The pensions should be about half of what they are.

Anyway, I hope the aldermen will work with the Independent and publish a report about current pension payments. How many officers are receiving pensions, and how big are those pensions. (and how old are they.)

For the record, pensions/benefits take up 21% of the budget. http://www.cityofnewhaven.com/pdf_whatsnew/FY2008-09MayorsBudget.pdf (P.24)

Posted by: Name Withheld | July 9, 2008 7:45 PM

PS-- Someone should dig into the Fire Department, which somehow has almost as big a budget as the NHPD. The police earn their money, especially the newbies, while the line to join the NHFD is three miles long.

Do we really need so many fire houses, and could we get by with 20% less personnel?

Posted by: Tom14 | July 9, 2008 9:22 PM

Do people realize that the police and fire pension are one in the same? The cops and fireman contribute a large portion of their retirement themselves. It is then invested. If the city wants to do something, decrease it's contribution. If anyone has a gripe it is the firefighters who don't ever see the salaries the police do. I understand that times are tough for the taxpayers, we are all feeling the pinch. At the same time though things like Arts and Ideas festivals, Concerts on the Green, and some of the Social programs the city has are unneccesary. The City wastes a lot of money. Kids don't need bigger and more modern schools they need better teachers and parents who are involved in their education. I believe that this generation of student relies to heavily on computers. Past generations never had this technology and turned great minds. The recent shootings within the city only confirm that we need cops and we need to compensate them fairly.

One other suggestion, why hasn't Yale University, one of the wealthiest institutions in the world been asked for assistance? 6 million dollars for them is nothing when you have an endowment in excess of 30 BILLION. Just an idea.......

Posted by: Tom14 | July 9, 2008 9:32 PM

Dear name withheld,

Where do you live? That should be the first firehouse closed. The downtown fire in Dec. is a perfect example of why the fire dept earns every penny they make and why they have the personnel they have. Also if you asked Mr Pillsbury on St. Ronan St he would also tell you that the firefighters of New Haven are the best at what they do and that closing any houses would be detrimental to the citizens of New Haven.

Posted by: jlowe | July 10, 2008 1:33 AM

Robn
Please take a breath... the contract is based on the four best years and if you could get your facts straight..I did mention most of those officers you talk about are supervisors. Just to let you know a friend of mine who is a police officer said when a police officer works those extra jobs only 25% is put into their pension. So if they made $10,000 extra for the year from extra duty work only 25% goes to their pension. Another thing I was told is their pension is based on their best four years. So Robn if I'm wrong you should find out about this... FOUR BEST YEARS!!! If this is true they can work their but off any year.
Police can't moonlight like someone mentioned they work for the city and are contracted out by the city. Police are not like other city jobs Firemen and Teachers (due to the police work schedule) where they can work two jobs unless approved by the Chief so this is why they work extra work. Police work is all they do!
My friend also told me when they started years ago (due to several officers) there was hardly no overtime unless you were a supervisor. Pay those hard working officers.
James
Shotspotter pin points the location where a shot is coming from. If you knew much about the Newhallville area residents know the days police are at the range and I believe the police monitor shotspotter (duh) so this means they know when they are shooting at the range.

Posted by: jlowe | July 10, 2008 1:33 AM

Robn
Please take a breath... the contract is based on the four best years and if you could get your facts straight..I did mention most of those officers you talk about are supervisors. Just to let you know a friend of mine who is a police officer said when a police officer works those extra jobs only 25% is put into their pension. So if they made $10,000 extra for the year from extra duty work only 25% goes to their pension. Another thing I was told is their pension is based on their best four years. So Robn if I'm wrong you should find out about this... FOUR BEST YEARS!!! If this is true they can work their but off any year.
Police can't moonlight like someone mentioned they work for the city and are contracted out by the city. Police are not like other city jobs Firemen and Teachers (due to the police work schedule) where they can work two jobs unless approved by the Chief so this is why they work extra work. Police work is all they do!
My friend also told me when they started years ago (due to several officers) there was hardly no overtime unless you were a supervisor. Pay those hard working officers.
James
Shotspotter pin points the location where a shot is coming from. If you knew much about the Newhallville area residents know the days police are at the range and I believe the police monitor shotspotter (duh) so this means they know when they are shooting at the range.

Posted by: jeffreykerekes | July 10, 2008 6:56 AM

CHE15:

The city budget can be found here.
The Forms 106 (supposedly, line item explanations) can be found here.
The revised City Budget can be found here.

Posted by: robn | July 10, 2008 9:10 AM

jlowe,

Its fair to say that the NHI should probably fact check the register article they referenced and present a lucid picture of police compensation (including possible restrictions on overtime, pension structure, etc.) so we're not commenting on hearsay.

Posted by: che15 | July 10, 2008 10:58 AM

thanks jeff

Posted by: James | July 10, 2008 11:33 AM

@Jlowe

I'm a resident and I can tell you that we do not know the days the police are at the range. The schedule changes every week. Just within the last few months to a year they have begun sending range schedules to a few folks, but we had to fight like hell to get them to do us that minor courtesy.

My point was really more that I find it ironic that they are using sophisticated technology to pinpoint the sound of gunfire when the vast majority of the sound of gunfire in Newhallville, Beaver Hill, and the surrounding area is made by the cops. If they weren't shooting all the time, residents might actually call in reports of gunfire. I stopped long ago and I'll tell you that complacency at the sound of shots being fired is a dangerous precedent and a sad commentary on life in New Haven. I don't know of any other city in the US that has an open-air range in the middle of a densely populated urban area.

Too bad our alders are too busy posing for the cameras to address this quality of life issue. I applaud them for what they're doing, but there's plenty that they're not taking care of in their own wards.

Posted by: jeffreykerekes | July 10, 2008 6:21 PM

ROBN:

Regarding fact checking the Register, I have seen the list of specific officers and the pay they have received year ending 2007. I will try to get the list again. I don't know if its relevant which specific officers make what, but the amounts NHPD officers made, from the best of my memory, were what the Register reported. I got the list after reading the Register article because I was so surprised. I hope that is helpful.

Posted by: Hooligan | July 10, 2008 7:06 PM

Gary

What you fail to understand is the cop's themslves pay into there own pension, which in turn is invested, and maybe you should reevaluate your job, and it's union, who settles for a 7% cut and forgoes a cost of living bump for three years? Gary sorry if you felt insulted, don't be so sensitive.

And Jeff, what would posting there names prove?

Posted by: newhavenpd | July 10, 2008 7:28 PM

construction workers are more skilled than cops? Change our work schedule, take our benefits, give us less money........you guys think you wait a long time for a cop now, see what happens if the city follows the alders plan. I would love to see what would happen if there weren't any cops to answer all the calls made by you big mouths. By the way, if this ever happened you would instantly lose 50 or 60 more cops to retirement. Then what would you do? You can't just hire more because NOBODY WANTS THIS JOB!!!!

Posted by: unprotected | July 10, 2008 9:06 PM

i think the city should try to settle the police contract and not go to arbitration because the police are definitely paid below regional cops, about 10,000 a year. a 4-2 or 5-3 schedule would put more cops on the street every shift, and give cops a chance to decompress... ever see children that died, it must really be tough. then put that aside and comfort a family that just lost their only child. put a price tag on that stress

Posted by: robn | July 11, 2008 8:56 AM

JK,

Thanks for confirming the Reg facts, but I guess I was looking for something a bit more encompassing which addresses all of the questions brought up by NHI readers...

1) Is an officers pension based upon their 4 best years of compensation or the last four years?
2) Is on-duty overtime 100% included in that calculation?
3) is off-duty overtime 100% included in that calculation?
4) is overtime capped in any way?
5) Does the city take a "cut" of off-duty overtime compensation?
6) Are officers required to contribute to their own pension and if so, what percentage of an officers pension is deducted from his/her salary?
7) How many years has the city allowed overtime compensation to be applied to pension calculations and why?
8) Is the city making contracts with pensions that are unfunded and unpayable?
9) How do other comparably sized cities manage this issue?

Posted by: David Streever | July 11, 2008 11:26 PM

NewHavenPD:

There aren't cops to answer the calls already.

I see them running red lights & speeding up & down Orange street for crying out loud all day--no sirens, no lights, no nothing.

I try to get the car number to report them but it isn't possible. They are way too fast.

Meanwhile, you respond to a call when a car runs a cyclist down, find fault with the car driver, and then issue... a verbal warning.

You target young black kids on bikes, 18 and under, who have never been educated about the laws and don't know why they can't ride their bikes where they want. What about going into schools and teaching a bike program?

Some presence. Keep up the good work.

Kudos to Lemar & co. I'm glad we have a strong alderman who works with the political opposition. People in East Rock pay more in taxes than homes I see for sale in the New York Times. In turn, we get police that mock us & laugh at us when they respond to calls, claim that "verbal warnings are equal to being arrested", steal from the city, plant evidence, and lie. Brilliant. Then we get to pay their pensions when they get fired for corruption.

Posted by: davek | July 12, 2008 12:53 AM

Way to go BOA to take on this issue. You are doing your job!

My concern is for the safety of the officers putting in that OT. They aren't in the best of condition and sometimes look uncomfortable in the middle of a busy intersection. It's not their fault, as they have never been trained to do that job. If I were in their position I would do the same.

And why not!

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 12, 2008 11:32 AM

robn
That is a great list I wonder if Paul can pose the question to someone?? Follow up story?

PS Just in case someone is reading I LOVE NHFD :)

Posted by: My coolness | July 13, 2008 12:07 AM

Aldermen Sandman, Lamar and Brooks have risen in my estimation by about 100% -- admittedly starting from a rather frugal base. Three of thirty Aldermen is a good start -- I hope these suggestions are taken seriously and our negotiators take heed.

I am not at my desk but it is fairly easy to obtain the average compensation of the police force -- just take the personnel costs, add in the pension and benefits, etc which are about another 50% and divide by the number of people in the police force. It is probably somewhat less than the average I calculated for the Fire Department which clocked in at $110,000 per person.

The Alders have targeted several structural elements of the Police contracts that drive costs beyond reasonable levels -- the 20 year service to a pension is an invitation to early retirement while the calculation of pensions based on final four year total compensation encourages abuse. Limiting pensions to 100% of base is hardly drastic, perhaps pensions should be based on base salaries plus some additional amount for overtime, etc., which is capped at some maximum percentage of base.

And there may be some imbalance in the starting salaries for Police and Firemen since the number of firemen applying for open fire positions exceeds the acceptance ratio for students at Yale while at the same time, the City is having a tough time finding recruits for each new class. The 20 year pension qualifying rule drives early retirement and the need for new recruits while the starting salary for Police may be insufficient to do the job.

Other suggestions for better managing labor costs had been offered during the budget review process -- such as reviewing additional tasks now being performed by uniformed officers that may be possible to be performed by less highly trained police officers. I am not in any position to do a time and methods assessment but such a review may highlight tasks such as police interviews and reports following crime reports, that may be safely and effectively performed by less skilled personnel.

The whole City role in providing police officers for extra duty work is another area that costs the City even though direct costs and most pension costs are paid for by the private contractors. Why is the City involved in this process at all?? And the willingness of a police officer to do this extra duty work at straight time for the contractor but requires overtime rates when done for the City is another area that warrants further analysis.

I am glad the three Alders have taken this initiative -- I would not have expected these particular three to be in the vanguard of this need to control budget costs. I wish them well and hope they get they get their reward this side of Heaven.

Full disclosure -- I am a member of New Haven Citizens Action Network, in cahoots with Kerekes, Doyens, et al. This Kerekes guy gets more and more astute by the day!!!

Harry

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 13, 2008 12:34 PM

To the officers that talked to my neighbor come ring my bell! Read my comment again. And then come talk to me not my nutty neighbor. I support my officers...but I still see the same dealers and scum working our streets. I will agree that you guys have been over here lately but this scum is still working it. So when I here that cops are getting 170,000 dollars a year but my area has gone down hill since Ratty, I get mad. Now my guess is that the good cops are not the ones abusing this system, so their for they are getting mad at these suggestions. But don't get mad at us get mad at the ones that are ruining it for the rest of you. To the officers I know you are reading this :) I luv ya's. I am not after your pensions and I do not agree with the medical part of it. I am after the ones that are ruining it for the good ones. And I know you guys are the good ones.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 13, 2008 12:40 PM

Boy in a 24 hour period I got it from the PD and the FD

Posted by: jeffreykerekes | July 15, 2008 7:02 AM

I am not sure if people are still reading this post or not now that it is no longer on the front page, but I did ask Rob Smuts the questions ROBN posted above and here is his response. I appreciate Rob Smuts for taking the time to answer these questions and making himself available for follow-up questions. He also sent a copy of the police contract which you can find here.

His reply:

/////////////////

I could go through the contract and pull the answers for Qs 1-6, but I
won't have an opportunity to do that for awhile. Here's the contract -
why don't you look through it and just get back to me with questions you
couldn't find or weren't sure about.

Q7 you might get some clues in the contract language (often they say,
"As of July 1, 1957..." or stuff like that that let's you know when
something started), but I'd have to check to get an answer on it.

Q8 - no. Every year, we make the actuarial recommended pension
contribution. The actuaries look at our exposure and tell us how much
to contribute, and we do - unlike many communities (and the state).
That's the simple answer.

Going into more detail, a pension is different than social security in
that unlike ss, which current workers pay for retirees, a pension is
supposed to fund on a go-forward basis future exposure. SS is in
trouble because the ratio of workers to retirees is shrinking as our
population ages. We have a defined benefit plan - not a defined
contribution plan - however, which means that we're not pure on the
funding now for future exposure basis. We are subject to the swings of
the market (theoretically, the market could make our pension fund grow
to the extent that we can reduce our contributions, though we aren't
going to see that happen anytime soon - it has happened, and was an
excuse many gov'ts used for underfunding during the 90s), past
underfunding, and simple miscalculations of our actuarial exposure. Our
pension funding level is down around 64.4% as of a little while ago, as
a result of these different factors. That's a significant on-the-books
exposure, but it's not going to cause problems except for three
circumstances:
1) if we want to close out the fund - if we want to switch to a defined
contribution or something, we will no longer have the other folks paying
into it (like SS), so we'd have to bond for the difference or something.
This is the same big issue that faces any major overhaul of SS.
2) if we started drifting down on our funding ratio. Towns like Hamden
and Waterbury that historically underfunded their pensions eventually
run into trouble, and that ends up being very costly. If we are
maintaining the pension fund and keeping the funding level constant, you
won't have a problem with a 64% ratio.
3) the final problem isn't related to the fund's solvency, but on the
annual cost. In that the pension fund is a bit of a black-box - you can
do things like offer early retirement or change the pension benefits and
there isn't a clear accounting in the City's ledgers - you can not fully
appreciate the consequences of pension decisions if you're not careful.
It's not that we don't pay for it - the actuaries take into account all
of the changes we might make and we pay whatever they tell us - but it's
that the number the actuaries give us is a little like going to an
oracle. For instance, our early retirement plan - if we net 15
positions that we can eliminate, that's a clear and immediate savings to
the City's GF. All of these people have worked over 30 years, eligible
to retire already, and generally up there in age - so the impact on next
year's pension contribution is not going to be significant because they
are largely already factored into where the pension's funding ratio is.
Bottom line, though, is that they are now getting paid out of the
pension fund, whereas they weren't before. That eventually works its
way out to having a real effect, but not in a readily tracible manner.
What happens with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (and therefore the stock
market) and whether the gov't increases the official life expectancy
next year by 4 months or 5 months will swamp the effect of any of our
actions on what the actuarial oracles give us for next year's number.

But just because what happens in China, Venezuala and the Middle East
matters more to how much your commute costs than whether you got the
26mpg Toyota or the 27mpg Honda and whether you remembered to fully
inflate your tires this month, it doesn't mean that those decisions you
make don't matter and don't eventually add up to big dollars.

All that's a long way of looping back to: we certainly do not have
"unpayable" pension obligations, we fully fund our pension obligations
every year, and we are very cognizant of the overarching and long-term
impacts of the pension details we agree to.

On Q9, I would have to refer you to our LR director for familiarity
with the specific provisions in other cities' contracts. I would say,
however, that we do not judge whether we are being responsible as a
relative matter comparing ourselves to Hartford, Bridgeport or
Waterbury. We hold ourselves to a more objective (and generally much
higher) standard.

- Rob

/////////////////

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 15, 2008 12:29 PM

My head hurts reading it! Thanx Jeffery for posting this and thanx Rob for the info.

Posted by: TrueBlueCT | July 15, 2008 9:01 PM

Smuts for Mayor! (after DeStefano.)

I mine that's the kind of straightforward, responsible, and intelligent communication I'd like to see from all our public officials....

Posted by: Two2Three | July 16, 2008 12:52 PM

While the city can be run more efficiently, all the attacks on police, firepersonnel and teachers are counterproductive. While we in New Haven fight over financial crumbs, the Congress and President just threw another $162 billion into a criminal war that they should never have started. New Haven's piece of that $162 billion is over $70 million. With $70 million the city would not be in deficit, could fund all necessary services and lower our tax burden.

Had we been able to prevent the Bush tax breaks for the billionaires, not gone to war and spent the money on jobs rebuilding our bridges, dams, public transportation, alternative energy generating industries, not only would tens of thousands of our people have decent paying jobs rather than losing them, but our cities would be in far better shape.

The attacks on union wages and benefits are simply a race to the bottom. If we are going to avoid in the U.S. the massive poverty in much of the world, with a few multi-billionaires at the top, we need to demand that everyone make a living wage, insist on sharply progressive tax policies and end the theft - of "our" taxes and "their" resources - and murder from all these unnecessary wars.

Fighting for crumbs or fighting for the whole pie - choose.

Posted by: cocerned jake | July 16, 2008 2:51 PM

You blopkes should realize that the vast majority of polie and fire pensions are reasonable. Firefighters earn straight time except under rare circumstances and overtime in general is directly coorelated to the administrations failure to properly staff the respective departments. Furthermore, PD private duty is subsidised. Some of you are going off half cocked blaming the workforce who truely earns their wage and pension. By the way, what kind of jobs do you all have that you have so much time on hand to blog all day. I want some of that job. Gee and you all complain about the cops and firemen.

Posted by: Name Withheld | July 16, 2008 3:17 PM

If the pensions are fair and reasonable, they should hold up to the light of day.

Why is it that the police union is screaming "MYOB", in the face of aldermanic inquiry?

Posted by: jlowe | July 20, 2008 12:56 AM

Cedar-

To be fair you can't blame the police for the same dealers and scum on your street. The people to blame are the prosecutors in the court at 121 Elm Street.
Years ago they hired several new prosecutors and even now and they are worthless they rather plea bargin than go to trial. When they plea bargain our same dealers and scum get released after months in jail instead of years.
The boss of the court Strollo is so power hungry that he takes care of the so called kiss butts and give them positions where they are inexperienced and give plea bargains like coupons are given in the Sunday paper.
Next time you have an arrest in your neighborhood you should follow the case (I did) and see what happens.
There was a female prosecutor years ago with the last name of Palombo who was strict on crime and they threw her to housing court Shame Shame.
There is another prosecutor named John Doyle who handled gun and drug cases who rolled his sleeves up and fought for this City against dealers and scum all this Strollo guy did is tied his hands and has inexperience people who don't know how to prosecute well (who did'nt trial many cases) and just plea bargain.
The same dealers and scum laugh at this court on the street and know not to get arrested for driving drunk or beating their family because the penalty is worse than drugs or guns.
I go to the courts and watch trials and see how people who got arrested for guns and drugs walk out the front door with a little penalty. I knew a guy who was arrested for two gun arrests and assaulting a cop and he only did 6 months in jail and still terrorizes the streets.
The court needs to be accountable for letting the same dealers and scum back on the street. Read the paper (even though they don't name all arrest) and see how arrests are made for drugs and guns and follow the cases. We need tough prosecutors not rookies or prosecutors with an ego. To bad we can't get information on these dealers and scum of the earth arrest and find out their penalty. These cops do fight hard but get frustrated from the courts lack of justice.