New Haven Independent

Posted by: kris | July 23, 2008 7:37 PM

Oh my god,The poor driver.If this kids friends were so upset why didnt they sit there and hold him in their arms until an ambulance arrived.Thats what

Posted by: kris | July 23, 2008 7:51 PM

They beat the driver??... !The kid has no business driving a dirt bike on a city street(isnt it illegal)and sppeding and flying through a stop sign.Thats how ignorant people have become,blaming the van driver.Whos gonna pay to fix the van.Does the kid have insurance.Who can the van driver sue for his injuries?Can you imagine hitting someone on a bike how devastated the van driver must have been even though he wasnt at fault.Maybe he should have sped off and left the kid there.You have to choose between getting busted for leaving the scene or getting beaten half to death from animals.This kids mother owes the van driver an apology and a new van.The other thing is,how does a 15 year old afford a dirt bike?Where was his idiot parents???Maybe the van drivers family can get some people together and hold some sort of rally.Wheres the clergy and screaming parents now???And someone said it was a humid day and he was bored.So this makes what he was doing ok?When I was 15 and bored I worked in stop and shop where it was air conditioned or cooled off under a sprinkler.Some how this will end up being the citys fault cause kids in new haven are bored and the city doesnt do anything about it.Never the kid and his parents fault.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 23, 2008 7:58 PM

WHEWW I can't breath.... what do you say. The child was in the wrong and has life threating injury's. Someone neglected to teach this child that the rules in the world no matter what rules they are, are their for a reason. I pray the child makes it through this!
I understand the last ladys comment.. that the kids more or less went into mob mentality. But they are way wrong and I hope that the police get them and teach them that this is not how you handle things. My fear is this situation can worsen the problems with thug teens in the city. PLEASE nip this in the bud.

Posted by: JMS | July 23, 2008 8:04 PM

Hmmm... kid runs stop sign on (what appears to be) a non-DOT approved dirt bike and rams a van causing himself serious harm. And based on the graphic description of his injuries I have to also assume he was not wearing a helmet. I feel very bad for the kid and hope he recovers from his injuries but this accident seems to be (1) entirely his fault and (2) entirely preventable if the police would enforce laws against riding off road vehicles on public streets. I see them everywhere during these summer months. I often comment to my wife in the car "We'll be reading about that kid in the paper tomorrow."

I won't even begin to try and make sense of what happened to the driver after the accident. I don't care whether the crash "victim" was their friend or not... the attackers behavior was appalling.

JMS

Posted by: dajanay | July 23, 2008 8:11 PM

this is a bad scene i was there when it happened poor cornell will always pray 4 u i hope ur ok

Posted by: WC | July 23, 2008 8:48 PM

This type of thing is an ongoing problem in New Haven. One day I was sitting in my house when I heard about 4-5 dirt bikes riding down the street. When I looked out the window it was about 10-12 including a couple of quads (ATVs). An hour later i decided to take my Harley out for a ride. I saw the same group of kids in Fair Haven blowing a red light. One of the riders held his hand out to the cars that had the right of way. It seems the police in New Haven have not made any effort to stop this kind of illegal activity.

Posted by: visitor | July 23, 2008 9:08 PM

i second the thoughts of cedarhillresident

Posted by: Annonymous | July 23, 2008 9:14 PM

Well...lets start off by saying that I AM the source who felt that the actions of the friends were out of rage!! Yes, if in fact the child was in the wrong, that still would NO WHERE near JUSTIFY why and just in fact how... a life was just worth him being in the "wrong"! People run through stop signs all of the time, CONCIOUSLY or NOT!!! Its just that simple, maybe if he did it intentionally is between him and GOD! DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER... under NO cicumstances....Im donw with you because you were not there to experience the situation at hand!! GOD BLESS YOU!!

Posted by: Fonseca | July 23, 2008 9:30 PM

There are only a few things that give a stronger perception of lawlessness, than teens with ski masks racing dirt bikes and atvs around city streets and sidewalks!

Humm... where and how did the 15 year old get the dirt bike?

Posted by: In the Hood | July 23, 2008 9:48 PM

This is just outrageous...I hope that the neighborhood does not protect these perps..

Is there a law that allows someone who gets involved in an accident --but scared about being attacked-- drive directly to the police station to report it rather than hang around and risk getting your ass kicked?

Where were the adults here?

Dirt bikes are illegal on the streets of New Haven in the first place. The cops won't chase them for safety reasons but hell someone should have called the police.

My God!

Posted by: nfjanette | July 23, 2008 9:55 PM

Perhaps the saddest thing is that there is nothing in this story that surprises me, from the dangerous illegal riding of the dirt biker to the violent mob scene afterward. Even the rationalization of the neighbors for the actions of the criminals who assaulted the van driver is expected. It's a sad day for this city.

Posted by: Sins of New Haven | July 23, 2008 9:59 PM

I hope both people recover. But please understand that a "dirtbike" like the Honda pictured is 100% illegal on the road. The 2-stroke engines used even in small 60cc or 80cc dirtbikes are very fast and powerful and can reach 40mph in a very very short amount of time.

This kind of dirtbike is not to be confused with a scooter, moped or pocket-bike. It is a machine literally meant exclusively to be on the rack track.

When you combine that type of machine and on-street usage in the hands of under-aged driver, you unfortunately end up with tragic results.

"He's riding up and down the street. It's a hot day, he has nothing do," inclines me to think that someone wanted to imply that it's SOMEONE ELSE'S fault via if he had "something to do" he wouldn't be riding an illegal racing motorcycle off of a dirt surface, which is where it is intended to be and nowhere else.

There are purposely no lights, horns, turn signals of illumination of any kind on bikes like these, as they are meant only to be raced on dirt tracks.

The NHPD has a "no chase" policy on such illegal riders. They do not want to incur an even higher speed chase putting the general public in danger.

People might ask "why not make it illegal to buy one?" The answer is that regardless of legal/illegal ownership, the police cannot "take" an illegal bike off of the street unless they FIND ONE. If it is in motion they have to let the rider go.

The only way is either confiscation or crash recovery, there is no in between.

The "has nothing to do" comment is ridiculous.

Posted by: FairHavenRes | July 23, 2008 10:03 PM

Sorry that the teenager is injuried, and I do hope he makes it.

I also hope the his parents are held responsible for this. This motor bikes and four wheelers that parents buy for their kids have no place the city.

The police damn well better find these monsters who stomped and kicked the driver. They should be punished to the full extent of the law. Mob mentality is not a defense nor an excuse.

Posted by: pedro | July 23, 2008 10:15 PM

The scourge of ATVs and dirtbikes on New Haven's streets is something I hope the new New Haven police chief tackles. While a "no chase" policy makes some sense, there HAS to be a way to control this, because let's face it, it's ridiculous.

Basically the choice that the NHPD has made is that it's better for accidents like this to happen, and for unlicensed kids to speed all over the streets of New Haven at high speed on illegal vehicles than to try to find a sensible approach to manage this.

Posted by: fairhavendoc | July 23, 2008 10:23 PM

helmets?

Posted by: Death Race 2000 | July 23, 2008 10:52 PM

This is a sad story. Every day I see kids riding around town on bikes without any idea of how stupid they are. They think the road is entirely theres. Its okay to bike on the wrong side of the road. Its okay to go thru red traffick lights. Its okay to go 4 bikes in echelon and take over all the road. Many times they bike in a way that will get them killed without knowing it. Just stupidity and arrogance 9 times out of 10.

I also see people in there 20s and 30s cycling better but being ignored and nearly mowed down by idiot drivers. Not as frequent as kids being stupid, but common.

The problem with this is that hit and runs will be normal if drivers stop after an accident and get beaten.

The cops need to catch these people. Law and order needs to be inforced and maintained. Also lets hope the truck drivers insurance company sues this kid so he pays for his wrong doing.

Lets hope this stupid kid and the poor driver both makes a full recovery.

Posted by: Bugupit | July 23, 2008 10:53 PM

A man drove legally though an intersection and got hit in the rear by an underage driver of an illegal motorcycle who reportedly ran a stopsign. Twelve youths including friends of the illegal biker set upon the innocent driver, sending him to the hospital. Police have not yet caught up to any of the youths involved in the beating. This story has a photo of four youths identified as friends of the illegal biker presumably looking down on the aftermath from a neighboring porch. As is said at NHI almost daily, "What a City!"

Chief Lewis, if you had gone to the Newhallville Community meeting this week, I doubt it would have had any influence on the ignorance of witnesses who think the rage of friends is understandable. But when you do go, bring a big trailer and offer to collect any illegal motorcycles residents would like to turn in, you know, to keep their kids in one piece.

Posted by: Ben | July 23, 2008 11:14 PM

Hey New Hallville,
It's time to report even the "smallest" illegal activities such as 2 stroke dirt bikes on city streets.
It's starts with the small stuff then you can handle the big stuff like mass beatings of innocent victims.
Take responsibility for your community.
If you don't call the cops or stand up for yourself, its nobodies fault but your own.

Posted by: T | July 23, 2008 11:59 PM

All I can say is "wow". You can't even make that up. I knew sooner or later something bad would come from riding those things on city streets.

Posted by: Bob Abuey | July 24, 2008 1:16 AM

"He's riding up and down the street. It's a hot day, he has nothing do,"

But of course sins, its always the citys fault somehow. "The cops shouldve stopped him" or "the city should have more programs for kids in the summer." God only knows what else people will be screaming.

Plain and simply, this is a constant problem in that neighborhood, and like sins said, the cops hands are tied. These kids take their lives into their own hands when they get on these bikes and quads, and not to mention, they NEVER stop for the stop signs.

Its sad what happened, and God willing this kid will survive, but the real victim is the van driver. The accident was apparently not his fault, and from the article claiming the BACK of the van was hit, this kid shouldve known alot better. But unreasonability and mob mentality (not to mention lack of diiscipline in the home) led an innocent to being beaten severely as the article claimed. If youre not going to stop for a stop sign, at least slow down enough to make sure no other traffic is coming.

Posted by: 2FACED | July 24, 2008 2:10 AM

There are two victims lives that will never be that same due to this terrible accident. Dirt Bikes and ATV's on city streets should never be a welcome sight.

Unfortunately, these vehicles have become as common as a car or a bicycle. Although, some seem to think riding them illegally on our streets is a casual past time filled with fun and excitement; this young man and life of his family and friends is forever changed.

I don't think the driver of the van anticipated being involved in such a horrible accident. I can't imagine what he must be going through knowing that someones child, has been critically injured in such a manner. Beyond, the investigation that will be done by the NHPD...this man will live with this horrific image and irresponsible beating he incurred after the accident for the rest of his life.

The anger felt by this young mans friends is no surprise; many of our young people have made the streets their home and their friends have filled the void of their families. They are willing to sacrifice themselves; to protect each other. That loyalty and/or code of the street led them to physically administer their own brand of justice for their fallen friend.

Is this right...NO! We must use this incident to develop progressive solutions to the long standing problems that seems to continue to get swept underneath the carpet particularly in the poorest neighborhoods. Parents need to play an active role in the lives of our young people, we need to engage more youth in positive activities, we must get involved in our community, hold your local government representatives accountable for youth programming and resources that speak to the needs of the youth in New Haven.

We can no longer allow illegal activities to rule the behavior of our youth and be surprised when the WORSE CASE SCENARIO plays out in front of our FACE.

Posted by: JackNH | July 24, 2008 3:41 AM

The last couple months we have all read on the NHI how traffic laws are ignored in NH by both drivers and pedestrians. How many people sent to Yale-NH is it going to take before WE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I don't care (that much; seems it was the dumb kid, no?) who's finally at fault here. EVERYONE NEEDS TO CHILL OUT ON OUR STREETS. Police: catch the gang of thugs.

Posted by: oldtimer | July 24, 2008 6:41 AM

i hope driver and biker recover in time....the driver of the van did stop and got out of the van shaken then gets attacked by these kids....shameful..i hope the police find these kids.....big deal they are friends of the biker..you don't do that..and am sure these people that saw it knew who they are.

Posted by: janey | July 24, 2008 6:54 AM

I AM GLAD THE NEW CHIEF OF POLICE CAME TO THE SCENE.....and i doubt it took 15 minutes for an ambulance to come....fire emergency are called first..

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | July 24, 2008 6:57 AM

What non employed 15 year old from Newhallville can afford a dirt bike? What parent would allow it? They ought to be flogged along with the porch thugs that beat the driver. What about child endagerment charges? Would love to know if that driver is white and, if so, why hate crimes are not being entertained.

Sins of the City

While the police may have a "no chase" policy, they know where the kids live and could charge them and confiscate the bike if they wanted to.

BTW, just saw the TV 8 account of this accident. No mention of the beating of the driver or his race.

Posted by: Anonyme | July 24, 2008 7:38 AM

I can't believe this doesn't happen at least once a week. Up and down my street from 10AM to 2AM hordes .. with parents god knows where zoom back and forth up and down through red lights cutting over sidewalks slaloming through traffic going both the wrong way and the right way.

Having knocked on more than a few doors throughout the city for one reason or another I expected the people living in these areas to react with a little less reason and restraint than they did. .... Little post-apocalyptic Road Warrior styled children being 'raised' by dropouts and drunks who consider a nightly purchase of scratch tickets to be on par with a solid 401K for retirement planning. All of this enabled by a city run like some middle-school civics project being guided by a class teacher who's just there to ogle 12 year old boys.

Circus without a tent.

Posted by: John Tulin | July 24, 2008 7:54 AM

All kids make mistakes, and I really hope this boy recovers quickly.

However.....

"He's got nothing to do" "You got to understand"....brilliant. So, because you weren't you're bored, and its hot, and you make bad decsions - its ok to steal a bike, ride w/o helmet through stop lights, and beat the person YOU crashed into? This mentality is the problem, not the kid - he is the product of this mentality.

Also..and just as important.

How many times have all of us who live in the city seen kids riding bikes and quads down sidewalks, against one-ways, and through lights. If we see it all the time, so do the cops. And they keep doing it all the time....This kid was acting this way because he is who is is, but also because he can. He is used to it. This is the way it is here....and that poor driver (and the boy) has to suffer for it.

Welcome to New Haven, bizzarro city.

Its great that kids have a hobby other than shooting each other; can we build them a track or something on wasted land? Just takes mowing a path, and supervision.

Posted by: Hillside Res | July 24, 2008 8:36 AM

Well, I was awakened by the news to find out that the boy has dies of his injuries. It's very sad and hopefully those who ride the dirtbikes out there should wake up and smell the coffee. They are not made for the streets. So.... Let's keep them off the streets. There is plenty of off road areas in CT. I take mines out to Beacon Falls all the time.

Expect to see memorials and bears, candles and flowers all over the scene.

Wonder gow the old man is holding up. I hope he doesn't feel he's at fault. In no way he was.

Posted by: Anonyme | July 24, 2008 8:41 AM

After reading this story for the 8th time, the story of the carjacking 18 year-old and the comments trying to excuse it as though the man old enough to vote and serve in a war was innocently naive of the implications of his actions and the countless other "too crazy to be true" actions and statements excusing said actions over the years I am convinced that many, if not all, of New Havens residents are living at a barely functional level of mental retardation. How else could a human being fill their living space with refuse be it genuine tangible trash or just the accumulation of reckless and irresponsible actions over time and then sit in it? Even go so far as to excuse it or even accept it as some sort of sentimental heirloom? Matters that are entirely within their control such as bad spending habits, consumption of vices legal or otherwise, passing up jobs that pay more than minimum wage because the added responsibilities would cut into you leisure time, being homeless and jumping from couch to couch but, hey, you drive a Mercedes, etc...

What's so hard about not behaving like a complete jackass?

Take the damn dirt bikes up to West Rock if you want to ride in relative safety. But actually riding a dirt bike on a dirt path isn't nearly as 'cool' as swerving in and out of traffic. And because I'm sure one of the functional retards will tell me riding at West Rock is illegal so the kids wont do it, don't tell me riding at West rock is illegal. Like being law-abiding is on their radar of concern? They ride too fast the wrong way swerving through traffic on the street because they don't want to break the law that says riding at West Rock is illegal?

Kids have nothing to do. Trade in the $1200 dirt bike for 300 basketballs, 4 Xboxs, a couple of department store bikes or one really nice one, a week or two of Summer camp, some Yu-Gi-Oh cards, whatever. Don't tell me there isn't anything to do. Whenever I get on my soapbox about how New Haven sucks defenders always come at me with "there's so much going on, so much to do." They probably meant go to a bar, go to a club, go to another bar but I don't think they ever meant run a dirt bike in and out of traffic going the wrong way. It's hot? take some of that dirt bike money and pick up an air conditioner.

Posted by: king james v | July 24, 2008 9:10 AM

This is an awful thing, just awful. A child - and he was a child at 15 - had died, a man at work recieved the elm city version of the old Reginald Denny, and I imagine overall race relations in New Haven are in the process of a giant backward step.
I'm a white guy, and now i cannot, nor should i for my own safety - drive into the hill (not to buy drugs, but to get from the train station to my house or head west from the hospitals). The neighbors acted irresponsibly to say the least, and in the process have 100% lived up to some of the stereotypes placed upon them by some of my white brethern, which upsets me to say the least.

Posted by: elmcityguy | July 24, 2008 9:28 AM

Sunday night, on the Boulevard, by Edgewood Park, a kid on a quad flew onto the road, going the wrong way. He just showed up out of the road and flipped on his lights when he was already headed straight towards me. My wife thought I was silly when I said I was scared of hitting one of those kids or the bike kids because I'd probably get the crap beat out of me after it happened, no matter what the situation was.

Posted by: 2nd Amendment | July 24, 2008 9:44 AM

When are we going to wake up???? The misguided do-gooder liberals who purport to run this h%&& hole of a city have allowed this to happen. I hope that the new chief throws community policing in the garbage where it belongs and busts open some heads during his short stay. Enough "touchy feely" nonsense!!

Posted by: In the Hood | July 24, 2008 9:50 AM

Paul,

I hate to quote the New Haven Register here, but William Kaempffer and Register Staff reported that:

"(Lt.)Fitzpatrick said earlier in the day police had reports of the same bike being driven recklessly in the neighborhood, although he couldn't say who was driving it."

Any information on how police followed up after neighbors complained to police about the illegal riding earlier in the day?

I think that's an important missing piece especially in light of the response by bloggers that neighbors did nothing about this.

If the Register is right..apparently some spoke up to the police about it.

Posted by: JMS | July 24, 2008 10:24 AM

Very sad to hear that the kid died. Totally needless and preventable death as far as I am concerned for all of the reasons everyone is stating here.

The New Haven Register does have some more information that expands on this story. Here is a link if anyone missed it.

http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19868672&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=635049&rfi=6

I really don't think I could come up with an uglier more volatile story if I tried to invent one. It's depressing as a New Haven resident to read (1) what happened and then read (2) the comments of the (likely suburban) peanut gallery as they sing "I told you so" over and over again... validating their opinions and views of New Haven from afar. It is a sad sad event.

JMS

Posted by: jackie | July 24, 2008 10:25 AM

I envy nobody's position here. And may the child rest in peace.

But if someone in that community had reported the fact that the kid was riding around illegally (let's say it wasn't the first time), and made clear that illegal activity was unacceptable--not "gangsta", not somehow ok because law-abiding behavior is "white" (overheard on the streets of NH)--well, I'm fairly this wouldn't have happened.
Why is inaction "status quo" in so many areas of this city?

So. Start snitchin'. Snitch early and often. Word have a stigma? Take control of it; it's been done before: "'Sup, my snitcha?"

Because if nobody dares to speak up, it's like *everybody's* dead already -- not just the kid. All anti-social behaviors become acceptable through being ignored. One big "broken window." You might then prove also that you are capable of rational thought rather than merely justifying the emotional reactions of those teens. Seriously, it's dragging everyone down. Just as a rising tide lifts all ships, the life irrational is lethal and contagious.

I know the Reverend Wright says rationality (= logic) is a "white" thang, but, you know--that's just the kind of thinking that the mob of kids wants to hear.

(Start at 7:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXibQ5Fm8vo

Posted by: herewego | July 24, 2008 10:46 AM

no whats sad is all the people that think the driver of the van was wrong when the kid crashed into the driver! The mother of this young boy should be questioned about why and where the boy got the bike!Sorry to say at a time when a mother lost her son but she should be held accountable for what her son was doing! Thats crazy that someone said he had nothing better to do! Did you ever hear of going to play a sport somewhere or picking up a hobbie? There are plenty of things to do other then speed around CITY STREETS on a DIRTBIKE!! GET IT DIRTBIKE!!

Posted by: Steve Ross | July 24, 2008 11:15 AM

I find it remarkable that in the wake of such a horrible, sickening incident that several of you can possess sufficient venom and righteous pretense as to blame "liberals" or "the functionally retarded" or whichever scapegoat you choose to demonize in order to legitimize your anger (or is it just to make others feel less safe or unintelligent?), even going as far as a call for violence in order to somehow rectify the situation.

No mistake, the substance of this article in abhorrent and saddening; but I fear the audacity of some of these responses beckons yet another, more insidious, omen....

Posted by: anon | July 24, 2008 11:32 AM

Let the suburban peanut gallery be. They'll all be moving here next year or the year after, when gas hits $15 per gallon.

That will be a good thing, because then we'll be able to hire more police and finally stop the deadly dirt bikes from illegally zooming up and down the one-way streets (and on the sidewalks!) in every neighborhood in New Haven, creating noise and air pollution.

Posted by: DEZ | July 24, 2008 11:41 AM

I have to admit that after being tortured for years in Fair Haven with quads and dirt bikes riding recklessly the wrong way on my one way street, I have often hoped for a good old fashioned end-over-end accident that would at least give us an aftermath of solitude from the cacophony of this quality of life issue. Having now happened in the hill, I realize that the quality of life that I seek is different from that of what appears to be most of my city neighbors. What is their quality of life? Do they think there is any quality to it? I think they know they live in hell and with no perceptible way out, rage like hellions. The core of the issue is one that cannot be policed out of society, but one that is tied to the miasma of socioeconomic issues tied to poverty. What makes some people rise up and do well by themselves and their community? Usually it has to do with an attentive adult, be it a parent or community member. Unfortunately, this child will never have that opportunity, and his gangster friends are surely on the same track. This is the tragedy that plays out everyday in some city or other. The perfect storm of socio-economic and racial issues that result in needless death and violence. It is a fact of life that touches us all regardless of where we live. It is a fact of life that is so terribly tragic.

Posted by: robn | July 24, 2008 11:44 AM

Omerta still appears to be alive and well in New Haven.

Posted by: Edward_H | July 24, 2008 11:53 AM

"He's riding up and down the street. It's a hot day, he has nothing do,"

How about reading a book?

You've got to understand, that was his friends. All they see is their friend lying lifeless. They were feeling a kind of rage."

I hope you will be so understanding when these ...decide to beat someone in your family over something that was clearly not their fault.

This is the second hate crime in Newhallville this month.

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2008/07/drugseeker_shot.php

If these 2 incidents happened in Morris Cove and the races of the people involved were reversed New Haven would be in the national news right now.

Fedupwithliberals

Would love to know if that driver is white and, if so, why hate crimes are not being entertained.

The NHI ,and other media outlets, have enacted policies to suppress this information ,unless of course the victim is a "person of color" and the perps white.

No, I am not some angry white guy, I am an angry black guy sick of the double standard from the media and law enforcement.

Posted by: westviller | July 24, 2008 11:59 AM

What am I missing here? A young man, illegally and recklessly riding a STOLEN motorcycle runs a stop sign and kills himself when he hits a legally driven van. The miscreant's friends then set upon the hapless van driver and nearly MURDER him?

No one wants to see death in their front yard, but it looks, from all reports, that young Mr. Payne's death was clearly his own fault. Neighbors, shed a tear for those who aren't able to understand which person the victim in this story. This false view of reality is the cause for so many of our City's problems!

Posted by: 2nd Amendment | July 24, 2008 12:02 PM

Unfortunately, I DO live in New Haven (but not for long...LOL).

Posted by: asia aka tweetie f. babie | July 24, 2008 12:05 PM

OMG POOR CORNELL iMMA MiS HiM SO FREAKiN MUCH AND THE NERVE OF THESE PEOPLE TO TRY TO BLAME iT on HiM .....iLL STiLL PRAY FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMiLY CUZ U WUZ LiKE A BROTHER TO ME OMG iMMA MiSS YOU....BUT NOW U iN A BETTER PLACE...LUV YAH

Posted by: Chris | July 24, 2008 12:07 PM

It amazes me that people stood by as the man was beaten... This area of down has really hit rock bottom and everyone is scared to do anything about it. I feel sorry for the boy, how can you not? Every single time i have seen a dirt bike or ATV on the streets i just think about how people in those neighborhoods just allow it. Call the cops and call them often. I will be everytime i see or hear one riding around the city.

Posted by: True New Havener | July 24, 2008 12:13 PM

This is a tragedy on many levels. A family has lost a loved son -- don't know how I would even begin to comprehend that. An innocent man suffered a horrible beating. One can and should hold both anguishes in their heart.

One thing that seems incorrect in posts like Jackie's -- the police say they DID receive neighborhood calls about kids joyriding on a dirt bike. (Jackie said if someone had reported on this behavior then this tragedy would not have happened.) The idea that there are some neighborhoods where people just don't care too often permeates the comments on this site. Such biases are just plain wrong and assume that nothing can be done because we don't want our neighborhoods to be safe.

On another front, before we criminalize childhood, young people riding around unsupervised without helmets on dirt bikes happens all over the place. I have little doubt that if these kids lived in the suburbs, they would also joy ride on dirt bikes, and as teens would break all sorts of rules in doing so. A city street is not the place to do this by any means but that kids of any background would do so is pretty much undeniable.

Kids do stupid things, most of us did. But that is very different than beating a man. That is unacceptable.

We need to differentiate between actions which are nothing more than the boundary pushing and risk taking of childhood and those behaviors which reflect a complete dissociation from our community. Then we should deal with each using very different interventions.

Posted by: 2FACED | July 24, 2008 12:32 PM

The death of Cornell Payne should serve as a wake up call for reckless living! He made some bad choices and unfortunately, riding an illegal dirt bike on a residential street was the cause of his death. If his friends and other people in the community don't wake up and see this...this will not be the last child to die on these mean streets.

Posted by: anon | July 24, 2008 12:46 PM

I agree, Chris. People wonder why their property values are low. Illegal dirt bikes crisscrossing the sidewalks and streets, preventing people from walking anywhere, are a big part of it. Time to see action. That means ticketing for everything from failure to come to a complete stop at a stop sign and up.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 24, 2008 12:48 PM

I think most that post here live in New Haven or have major ties to it. And despite my criticizim of the city I love living here. We know the teens are out of control (this is one of our major issues in my area as well) and people are really afraid of them (children of the corn syndrome as I call it) and it seems to be getting worse! What has changed in the world that kids have become the feared criminal? They have adults leading them and teaching them, they have learned to work in numbers as first handedly seen by the driver of the van. What can we do?? How do we stop it?? Really!
time for a song break
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/1/578982/Marvin Gaye - Whats Going On.mp3

Posted by: Don B | July 24, 2008 1:02 PM

The man was in a well marked work van with the business' phone number in big letters on the side, where the hell was he going to flee to?
As far as the young man on the motorbike, it's tragic - an accident involving a broken leg or arm would have taught him a life lesson, i hope his peers take heed to this warning.

Posted by: Kyle | July 24, 2008 1:28 PM

Has everyone signed the Safe Streets petition by now?

Posted by: don b | July 24, 2008 1:31 PM

A side note to the editor of this "paper" - if you are going to edit people's posts, you should note that in the post you choose to display. This paper is neither a true "blog" nor does it display undoctored content and that is a shame because it's the best written news in new havne, however it is not true.

Posted by: ball-zee | July 24, 2008 1:33 PM

Several questions arose from this tragic incident. First, how did a 15 year old boy or his friends bring a dirtbike to their home and not be questioned by their parents or parent as to where it came from. Did this group of children get a job without parents knowledge and buy this bike??? If my child just appeared with a new dirt bike that cost several thousand dollars I would be in an uproar.
Second, if the child aquired this bike legally then why would he be allowed to ride it in the streets without helmet or supervision.
DID PARENTS FORGET THEY HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP THEIR KIDS SAFE AT ALL COSTS. Society has to be held accountable. You had the kid, it doesnt matter how you do it but you keep your kid out of trouble. If parents are failing their kids then maybe someone needs to step up and show them the right way.
It takes a tragedy to open the eyes of the people. I hope this can open your eyes to the problems that new havens youth are facing. They do NOT know the difference from right and wrong, they show no respect for the law, they do not see the importance of eduacation, and they do not have parents who care about their well being or future. How can a society change without the proper tools.
I hope the neighbors point a finger at these people and parents who beat up the driver of the van in this accident. If you hide these criminal youths this time, maybe next time your child will be the victim of such violence and it will be to late.
SHOW SOME COURAGE AND DIGNITY FOR ONCE AND IF YOU KNOW THE VIOLENT CRIMINAL YOUTHS WHO DID THE BEATING OF AN INNOCENT MAN REPORT IT AND LET THEM DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES.

GOD BLESS THE FAMILY OF BOTH VICTIMS AND MY PRAYS WILL GO OUT TO ALL IN NEW HAVEN. YOU NEED IT.

Posted by: soulaminah | July 24, 2008 1:35 PM

to "asia aka tweetie f. babie"

"nerve of people trying to blame him?" he was speeding, he ran a stop sign and HE hit the van, not the other way around. so how is it NOT his fault? please explain. i hope you can.

Posted by: Myra J. | July 24, 2008 1:48 PM

First, this is just a sad, sad, scene of events. There are much deeper issues that result in incidents like this. The mayor says there is a disconnect amongst the youth. I would like to rephrase that statement by saying there is a disconnect in the entire city. City officials fail to provide adequate opportunities for youth all year round. These kids are finding things to do on their own and therefore the choices they make are not always appropriate. They cannot be expected to take the entire blame. As for Kris, who wrote about this situation earlier. I know for a fact that he/she is definitely disconnected. Maybe you are the IDIOT to make such judgemental comments against a fifteen year old child and then bring in his parents whom you have no clue of their circumstances. It is people like you who help perpetuate the disconnect within the city. I do NOT condone the actions of the folks who jumped on the driver or anyone who breaks the law. I just think that folks should stop pointing fingers full of judgement and discrimination and take a look in their mirrors and consider if they are doing ANYTHING to be a part of a solution of some sort.

Just a question....if the police were in response to the 911 call within 4 mins after the boy was hit, why couldn't they find the boys who were reported earlier around 1pm for riding through the neighborhood on the dirtbikes within the four hours before the accident happened?? Newhallville is not that big of an area. They find kids riding bicycles or walking in groups of 3 or more with no problem and harrass them, but couldn't follow up on a report within 4 hours after it was made?? That is what we need to think about, the selective policing that goes on around the city. I wonder if the mayor would comment on that?

Posted by: QRiver Res | July 24, 2008 2:00 PM

Why not hold the owners of these bikes partially accountable for accidents when they occur? Similar to the way that people who throw underage parties are responsible for resulting DUI accidents. That may help curb this dangerous vehicle use.

Posted by: Paul Bass | July 24, 2008 2:18 PM

Don B: Thanks for the suggestion. I currently put ellipses when I've removed words that violate our rules for posting on the site: no libelous accusations, no swearing or porn, no vicious personal attacks, and no branding groups of people with harsh names (like calling kids "animals")...

Posted by: sandstorm | July 24, 2008 2:40 PM

There will be many tragedies if parents, police, block watches, clergy and teenagers do not monitor these young proteges on their bicycles at night.
I have been worried, for weeks, that a life will be
lost on Elm Street. Youngsters are riding, recklessly, with no lights or safety equipment;
they are almost courting tragedy.

The injured driver experienced everyone's worst
nightmares, from impact on!

Posted by: Edward_H | July 24, 2008 2:43 PM

Paul Bass

and no branding groups of people with harsh names (like calling kids "animals")...

I assume you used this rule to justify censoring my comment? Just to clarify I was not speaking of ALL kids. Just the ones who decided to savagely beat this man for no good reason.

By the way I agree that you should censor posters who call kids "animals" . Calling these people "animals" is a horrible insult to animals everywhere

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 24, 2008 2:44 PM

Just a side note: We had a red dirt bike bahaing through our area about 2 weeks ago for a few days..I wonder if it is connected. Have not seen it since we yelled at them.

Posted by: TrueBlueCT | July 24, 2008 3:59 PM

In terms of the beating, is it true that people under 18 years of age can no longer be tried as adults?

This incident is horrific and exceptional, but like the gang shootings in Edgewood, one can't help but worry that justice will never be served.

In many parts of the country, the perpetrators of the beating would be looking at 10-20 years. Here you kind of think 1-2 years in juvie, if that.

Posted by: Ben | July 24, 2008 4:09 PM

Check out the woman in this video saying that the guy got the beating he deserved:
http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?s=8724760

Interview her first...she's guilty of stupidity if nothing else. She also mentions she has a child.
What lessons is that kid going to learn about right and wrong?

Posted by: lifelong resident | July 24, 2008 4:49 PM

its a very unfortunate incident and i know that a young man died but if he ran the stop sign and ran into someone, it may hurt to say this but it was the kids fault. number one these kids on dirtbikes are not supposed to be on the streets with dirtbikes (thats why they are called dirtbikes). number two these kids know how to switch gears and stay upright but they really dont know how to ride. and i think its ignorant to beat up someone who didnt ask or cause this kid to crash into the back of his van. but at the same time i send my condolences to family. ill pray for you. i hope this is a wakeup call to the other dirtbike "riders"

Posted by: John Tulin | July 24, 2008 5:10 PM

The people of this particular neighborhood (the many eye-witnesses) should respect the memory of this young boy by telling the police who beat the driver. "Everyone" knows who beat him. His friends, like Ms. Tweety-Baby (sp?), should report what they have heard about it.

Honor him by stepping up and sparking some change. Maybe, only with your help, his death can 'wake up' this city.

Or...more of the same.

Posted by: James | July 24, 2008 5:24 PM

Myra, These kids are finding things to do on their own and therefore the choices they make are not always appropriate.

Are you f'ing kidding me? Kids don't have anything to do so they make inappropriate choices? Inappropriate is sneaking into a rate R movie, maybe making some prank calls. Stealing a vehicle and riding it at high speeds through the streets endangering your life and others is not inappropriate. It's criminal. Beating a man who had done nothing wrong within an inch of his life is not inappropriate. It's savage and disgusting. And how the hell did you get discrimination out of this? Or are we just going to skip over the story and make this about race? It's not their fault because society is out to get them?

As for the whole "if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem" ... No, I'm not out in the streets reaching out to these kids. Not my job. I'm raising my own kids and working my job to try to get by like everybody else. I pay my taxes, stop at lights, and generally abide by the laws of society. I do my part and then some. You want to tell me how that makes me part of some "disconnect"? Are you going to tell me that if everybody just raised their own kids right, aboded by the law, paid their taxes that we wouldn't be just fine? Please.

How about Newhallville taking care of their own? Take some responsibility for yourself. Let others take responsibility for their actions instead of making excuses for them and telling us how "society" has failed them. How or why should these kids ever learn to take responsibility for their own situation when they are fed a steady diet of this "society owes you" crap. Why take responsibility when someone like you is always right around the corner to make apologies and excuses for them?

Posted by: sciencehill | July 24, 2008 8:10 PM

I live on Mansfield Street and at all times of the day traffic goes speeding up the street at highly unreasonable speeds. Since the weather has been warmer, this traffic includes kids on dirt bikes. There are children who ride their bikes up and down the street and I am worried one of them is going to get hurt. I tried calling the New Haven Traffic Safety Hotline today (203 946 6956) and it went straight to voice mail. What is the purpose of this Traffic Safety Hotline anyway?? And should I just be calling the police directly??

Posted by: Doug | July 24, 2008 8:39 PM

I don't really know what happened at the intersection, but if the van driver was abiding by the law, and the kid on the illegal, stolen bike blew through the stop sign, then it's the kid's fault.

I don't know if the van tried to leave the scene, as was reported by a person speaking to WTNH. If he did, based on what happened to him afterward, I don't blame him. I can only imagine what the crowd was doing in the seconds after the impact.

James is on target, as is the mayor. It's not the city's responsibility to make sure kids have something to do so that they don't break the law and terrorize their neighborhood.

If they don't have anything to do, then breaking the law is still not an option. It's never an option.

Here's some things to do... beautify your neighborhood. Pull some weeds. Scrape off the graffiti. Pick up the litter around the trash cans. Empty some cans into a dumpster. Try to clean up peeling paint that may contain lead. Help an elderly person with yard work or go shopping. Babysit a child. Go to the library and read a book. A lot of young people will be surprised by how much better they do in school if they read more books. If your neighborhood is in good shape, get on the bus and go work on another one. Do something positive. It makes a big difference.

People who break the law should be held responsible for their actions, even if they're rich, poor, black, white, whatever. That's what civilized society is all about. Ours needs work, but don't expect someone else to take the time to raise your children, or at least to teach them that it's not okay to break the law because they don't have anything to do.

The neighborhood and the kid's family need time to heal. But the dozen or so kids who beat that driver did themselves and their community a GIANT disservice. Why would anyone even consider hiring a teen from that neighborhood now? Did the youth who beat that driver prove to the city that they deserve a taxpayer-supported job? Not by those actions. Not by a long shot. Rage is not an excuse.

Posted by: strangerthanfiction | July 24, 2008 9:26 PM

"It's sad that they beat the guy up," the woman said, resuming her tale. "You've got to understand, that was his friends. All they see is their friend lying lifeless. They were feeling a kind of rage."
__________________________________

This incident truly is a wake-up call. It's a tragedy that the boy apparently ran the stop sign and smashed into the van. However, it's an horrific crime that the van driver was then savagely beaten by up to 12 of the boy's "friends". And the neighbor says we've got to understand they were his "friends"!! The entire community has to reject the kind of values that give moral wiggle room to the savage beating of an innocent man. The "friends" felt the spontaneous need to savagely retaliate for the injury of their friend against an innocent man. The value system operating here is dead wrong and that's what the woman quoted needs to understand.

Posted by: Joe | July 24, 2008 9:32 PM

I guess you could say driving an illegal bike at a high rate speed through a stop sign, smacking into the back of another vehicle and killing yourself in the process is an "inappropriate choice."

Posted by: king james v | July 24, 2008 10:24 PM

After this incident I won't go into predominately black thouroughfares for some time to come. I live in the Western neck of Westville and to get home from downtown or to get there my options are Whalley, Edgewood, Chapel, Elm or rt 34 - all which for a good part - require me to drive through a neighborhood or three where i'd be picked up by cops for walking around, and get the attention of guys on streetcorners after dark. It saddens and scares the hell out of me to know that in broad daylight, a man doing nothing more than driving a work vehicle was the unfortunate operator of a vehicle a young man crashed into, and then was pulled out and summarily beaten by a mob of people while others sat by and watched with indifference. I had two very emotional and cathartic talks with two good friends who live in new haven, both african american, both friends for more than twenty years - and we agreed that the current young generation in new haven (in the 13-19 year old range of age) are out of control, and nobody has an answer to change this.
This isn't as much a race issue as it is a generational cultural phenomenon of children who have been raised in near anarchy, attending school as a social thing - not to learn, finding thier own things to do with their idle times and young minds.
There needs to be drastic changes, and I hope the mayor cancels quickly realizes this.

Posted by: DESI' | July 24, 2008 10:44 PM

My Prayers are constantly going out to you Arnold and the entire Payne family. I know your pain is great and seems to be continueous. First Momma Payne and now your son in lest than two weeks. I pray for your mind, your strength, your heart to be soothed by God, I pray for your houshold and your family to get through this rough period. We have all been in some stuff over our lifetime that could have, and should have ended up the another way, so we can't throw stones. But we can build on them to make others safe that we love.

I havent seen you all since Ashmun street 30 years ago but I send my love and prayers all the way from Richmnd VA. Just to let yall know I got you.

This is not to shine off on the driver because my prayers are with him as well. So I pray that as he recovers that he also allows this family to recover for they have to deal with a lost, not a recovery. That should be more than enough justice.

So please New Haven, give it a break. Enough throwing stones and being cold hearted. Support everyone thru this very difficult time. It has been by the mercy and grace of God that everyone of us has not been accidentally recked beyond recovery.

Desi (Ray)

Posted by: Scoots | July 24, 2008 11:06 PM

I find it frustrating to hear the constant refrain that there is nothing to do if you are a kid in New Haven during the summer. According to a recent press release there were 6,000 spots open to students in the various free school programs. Half an hour after this incident occurred Stetson Library was holding a teen reading challenge. The Mayor's office put out a 30+ page guide to local summer programs of varying costs. This week on the Green is Sports Camp. Parks & Rec has a 16 page summer program brochure. There are free public swims at Hillhouse, Cross, Career and Martinez schools, and I believe Hamden High only charges $1-2 for non-residents. New Haven Youth Soccer, Skills Camp (basketball) and the East Shore Tennis Clinic are just some of the organized sports available (again varying fees). Yale offers several summer programs for local middle and high schoolers. Eli Whitney, Schooner, the Peabody and the British Art Gallery have summer camps (with scholarships!). So much is available at no cost and financial aid is available for many of the programs that do charge. Could the City offer more? Sure. Certainly I think they could do a better job organizing information about what's available (the Mayor's Guide is great but many parents don't know about it). But the bottom line is that there ARE options for kids and little excuse to complain.

Posted by: Amber | July 24, 2008 11:44 PM

FIRST OF ALL FOR ALL OF YOU PEOPLE THAT HAVE SLICK COMMETNS TO SAY IF YOU DONT HAVE NOTHIN NICE TO SAY THEN U SHOULDNT SAY AT ALL MOST OF U ARE ADULTS HERE...SO LETS GET WITH IT GET IT TOGETHER...ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE WHO DIDNT EVEN KNOW CORNELL!!!...YOU SHOULDNT SPEAK ON SOMEONE IF U NEVER KNEW THEY SITUATIOUN LIKE TO THE PERSON (KRIS)WHO WAS LIKE WHERE WAS HIS IDIOTICS PARENTS!? U DONT KNOW MY BOYS STORY AND WERE HIS PARENTS WERE 4 ALL U KNOW THEY COULDVE DIED!!SO FOR YOU 2 SAY THAT WAS SO NOT YOUR PLACE AT I READ THESE BLOGS AND GET UPSET BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO THINK THEY COULD JUDGE AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED NOONE CAN JUDGE ANYBODY YEAH EVERYBODY MAKES MISTAKES AND THE WRONG MOVES SO FOR YA'LL TO SAY CORNELL WAS THE WRONG ONE NO ONE SHOULD POINT FINGERS JUST LET MY HOMIE REST IN PEACE!! AND INCASE U WONDERIN WHO I AM!!...IM SOMEONE THAT KNEW HIM AND WAS CLOSE 2 HIM AND KNOWS HIS STORY HE WAS MY BROTHERS FRIEND AND MY HOMIE SO TO END ON THAT NOTE IMA SAY IS CORNELL WE LOVE YOU AND MAY UR SOUL REST IN PEACE

Posted by: last straw | July 25, 2008 12:15 AM

Actually, it doesn't seem to be the grace of god that is keeping many of us from being "recked" (sic), rather the careful avoidance of New Haven's teen population.
Crossing town via the interstate, avoiding Crown St. on all-ages night, staying indoors at 9:30am (when all the kids start walking away from the high schools), and doing all of my shopping outside of New Haven are just some of the ways I avoid being "recked".

p.s. This is a "shine off" on the youth of New Haven.

Posted by: Sadie Lambert | July 25, 2008 8:05 AM

I CANNOT BELIEVE MY EYES. NOT LESS THAN 2 WEEKS AGO I SENT A REQUEST TO THE NEW HAVEN INDEPENDENT TO WRITE A STORY ON RECKLESS AND ILLEGAL MOTOR-CROSS AND ATV RIDING IN EDGEWOOD PARK WITH PICTURES OF A BIKE IDENTICAL TO THIS RIDING BY THE TENNIS COURTS.

I wrote to the NHI that this city (despite 3 years of letters to the Mayor's Office, calls to the police, and begging the Ward-25 Alderwoman to help do something about this nonsense) has done nothing to put a stop to this.

It is sad and my thoughts are with the family of the deceased boy and the van driver.

However, this is an issue bigger than that one neighborhood and bigger than New Haven. It is, a social commentary on where this country is heading.

As a small city, though, I am ASHAMED that my neighbors keep on re-electing a Mayor who runs an administration that is so laid-back and does not respond to citizen concerns with pro-active plans. THREE YEARS I HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS! (Can you believe the Mayor was running to lead our state!?)

And, sadly, I agree with many of those who commented that I am also terrified to drive through some of our city's neighborhoods. What those boys did to that van driver was simply barbaric. What is this, the middle-ages!? It sounds as if this young kid sustained huge injuries but if those "friends" had put their rage towards aiding the injured kid the outcome may (perhaps) have been different for him.

Who knows what the answer is but next time voters go to re-elect this administration, think long and hard about where this city is going and think about the potential of this city and our city's children.

Finally, I also blame our state for having such an archaic system of property tax disbursement. Disbursement of funds needs to occur regionally, rather than locally, so that those communities with most need get more money. This city clearly needs more money (but it can't keep on happening on the back of the middle-class home owners) so that we can get more cops and improve after-school and sumer offering to our city's children. Maybe if all of this happens these kids wont' be stealing bikes, people won't be getting beaten and our quality of life will increase in all neighborhoods, not just a select few.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 25, 2008 8:23 AM

Ok wow what a thread....
I agree it is NOT the city's responsibility to keep your kids busy!! Isn't that want they have parents for?? Is that not part of being a parent??? I don't get it!! Don't have kids if you don't want to take care of them and raise them to be good people, THAT SIMPLE! okok I agree some kids do just take the wrong road in life when they are teens but...shoot, breaking the rules in my day was stealing a candy bar or a loaf of bread from Delmonico's :) Not robbing a dirt bike and driving crazy through the city..NOT BEATING A MAN!

Here is my words to that community!! You where all witness to the beating and that means you DO KNOW who did it or at least some of them!!! Want change in your community (stop BI**Hing) and turn them in!! Watch how quite your community comes!!!!

DO THE RIGHT THING!!!

Posted by: KAMB | July 25, 2008 8:47 AM

It's very sad that the child died and was in an accident. BUT he made the decision to ride a dirt bike through stop signs. ITS MORE appauling that an innocent man was beaten within an inch of his life for coming home from work. AND ITS EVEN more appauling that some folks now would liek to blame the police (as usual) for this behavior. THE POLICE DONT CHASE DIRT BIKES AND ATV's because they drive even crazier! It's the lawless behavior of this city and NO PARENTAL CONTROL !

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | July 25, 2008 9:22 AM

Dear Last Straw,

Some people might call your statements "profiling". I call it common sense.

Posted by: strangerthanfiction | July 25, 2008 9:35 AM

We all mourn the loss of Quinell Payne -- it was a tragic loss and we extend our deepest sympathies to his friends and loved ones. But the best way to honor him is to step forward and identify those who savagely beat that innocent driver. It's critical that a strong message be sent throughout our community, especially to young people, that this emphatically is not how you handle strong emotions. This kind of blind retaliation, especially against innocents, injures us all and is never justified.

Posted by: James | July 25, 2008 9:52 AM

Desi, It has been by the mercy and grace of God that everyone of us has not been accidentally recked beyond recovery.

Actually, it is not by the grace of god. It is by being responsible for my own safety and that of others. It is by not running red lights, driving the speed limit, and generally acting like a civilized member of society. It is by not stealing, buying or distributing narcotics, by not talking on my cell phone while I drive, and by crossing the street at the crosswalk when the light signals that it is safe to do so. It is by keeping my valuables out of sight and my doors locked. It is by thinking before I act. It is by being aware of my environment and the dangers around me. It is by waking up and going to work every day, like I'm supposed to. It is by getting regular check-ups at the doctor and brushing my teeth every night. It is NOT BY THE GRACE OF GOD or left up to chance.

I am safe and healthy because I take care of myself and take responsibility for my own actions.

To the friends of Cornell that have been posting. I'm sorry for your loss. I really am. No matter how he has been portrayed in the paper or what he has done in the past, a friend is a friend regardless of what they may or may not have done. But you need to understand that he is responsible for the choices he made. And yes, when we people say that he made some stupid choices, they are being judgmental. The world is a judgmental place and whether it's right or not people will always judge you by your actions. If you don't start caring about how society will view your actions you will wind up just like Cornell. Or worse, you'll never get out of this place and grow up to have a child that dies like Cornell.

Posted by: John Tulin | July 25, 2008 10:11 AM

Amber -

Believe it or not we are all sorry for your loss, but what does knowing the boy have to do with this? Whether he was a rotton kid or the sweetest boy in the world I judge this situation, because I do judge myself, my children. Should we not judge it, evaluate it - should we just say its all good in da' hood, and not care about this tragic loss? Some of us have standards we hope the rest of the city, and the city itself, will start living up to. (Standards like being civil, productive, kind, intelligent - simple ones)

By the way, lose the caps and use proper English please - it is a much more EFFECTIVE way to communicate, and I think that is your goal.

Posted by: anon | July 25, 2008 10:47 AM

This "accident" was completely preventable through better road design, i.e., mini-circles instead of stop signs. Mini circles slow traffic slightly and also prevent almost all head on and side collisions. There are several installed along Woodward Avenue in New Haven. In fact, cities have been sued for having stop signs, because they are highly ineffective and endanger lives. Intersections with roundabouts are 10 times safer than regular intersections.

Posted by: bfair | July 25, 2008 11:08 AM

First, My prayers to both families (the young boy's and the driver of the van) and who said that because the bike was stolen that the deceased stole it? Could he have just been one of the drivers that day?
To Desi: you sent prayers out to the family in your post. I pray to God that they never read all the hateful and spineless comments that were made here ;the indifference shown to their son's loss of life in their time of insurmountable grief. So much time was spent placing blame and taking of the tragedy to make this about race. Fed up/ Edw H: THE DRIVER WAS BLACK so fall back on that. No hate crime to pursue. True Blue, 14 yr olds with serious crimes are treated like adults and Anonymous believe it or not the majority of New Haven Residents fall above the "barely functional mentally retarded", Fed Up: the term "porch thugs" is that a derivative of "porch monkeys"? Reality check:suburban kids are out of control too. Thank God none of the posters ever crossed the line as kids (or adults). We need you as role models.I expect the disconnect from those residing outside New Haven but many times the greatest disconnect seems to come from within.

Posted by: Edward_H | July 25, 2008 11:32 AM

Strangerthanfiction

We all mourn the loss of Quinell Payne

No, we all don't.

-- it was a tragic loss and we extend our deepest sympathies to his friends and loved ones

A kid sucummbing to childhood luekemia is a tragic loss, the child did nothing to cause this disease. This case here is just someone who gambled with his own life and the lives of others and lost. He could have easily crashed into someone's child chasing a ball into the street or ran into a car with a baby on board. Can anyone imagine what would have happened had this been a woman in a minivan full of kids? Would they had beaten her kids as well? Raped the woman?

But the best way to honor him is to step forward and identify those who savagely beat that innocent driver.

They are honoring him in the only ways they know how:
1) Blaming everyone in sight except the kid riding the bike
2) Keeping alive the "No Snitching" mentality so prevalant in Newhallville

Paul Bass

Many people posting here , especially the ones who claim to know the kid in question, do not seem to be able to write in standard English. Distinquishing your ellipses from those people who just do not know how to use proper punctuation becomes difficult to say the least. Perhaps you could put "[edited]" or something like that instead?

Posted by: James | July 25, 2008 11:41 AM

BFAIR, which comments do you find spineless or hateful? Is it not a legitimate reaction for people to be fed up with the lawlessness that leads to loss of life? Is it not understandable that people's sympathy for Cornell may be tempered by the fact that he put himself in that situation and could have easily injured or killed others? What if, instead of just killing himself, Cornell hit one of my children, or you? Does he have that right? To endanger the lives of others because he can find anything to do on a hot summer day? I think that there is sympathy for the family, but it is overwhelmed by the outrage over the fact that a situation like this has arisen in the first place.

As for never crossing the line, I think you're way off base. Stealing a vehicle and smashing it at high speed into another vehicle is not crossing the line. Beating a man, regardless of fault, is not crossing the line. It's anti-social, criminal behavior that will only escalate as these kids get older until somebody explains to them the difference between screwing up and grad theft/assault. Maybe part of the problem is that too many people view this type of behavior as youthful indiscretion. Frankly, I'm outraged that you're not outraged and seem to be all to ready to chalk this up to "we all make mistakes." Maybe raise your standards as to what you expect from your community and people will start fulfilling those standards.

Lastly, race has, for the most part, been absent from comments and reporting. If you choose to pick up on the few comments that have tinges of racism, so be it. But every time you bring it up your simply contributing to the distraction from the issues at hand. Stop looking for racial boogey men and demand some change. Demand that the citizens of this city stand up and put a stop to this type of behavior. Demand that those same people who sat by and watched the beating occur come forth and let justice be done. Demand that people expect more from their children and neighbors. Or keep making excuses while mining for "derivatives" of racial epitaphs.

Although for the record, yeah, "porch thugs" doesn't sound like it's coming from a happy, "love your brother" kind of place. But really, out of this whole story and all of these comments you fixate on one phrase? Does that tell you something about where your priorities are?

Posted by: Edward_H | July 25, 2008 11:56 AM

bfair

Thanks for the clarification. I am releived to hear these kids are giving out equal opportunity beat downs regardless of color or creed.

Posted by: nathan turner | July 25, 2008 11:57 AM

certain people love to malign CT concealed carry permit holders as crazed "survivalists" and the likes. let this be a notice to those people. your life can change just that fast. you may indeed be beaten to within an inch of your life, because a bunch of worthless thugs decided YOU were at fault for their friends injury, even though you were minding your own business.

Posted by: ani | July 25, 2008 12:13 PM

My, my-- what a tragic, complicated situation. While I tend to agree that, in a perfect world, it would be parents and not schools/cities who provide structure and safety for their kids, the fact of the matter is that we live in an imperfect world in which kids are often neglected and unsupervised because parents are unable or unwilling to fulfill their obligations. The reasons for this type of dysfunction are complex and often rooted in a painful history of poverty and race relations, and at the end of the day, it does no good to point fingers at parents, because the fact of the matter is that we cannot legislate responsible parenting. What we as a society CAN do is provide guidance and options for kids. And unless we wish to continue seeing kids die and neighborhoods terrorized, we must. It's may not be the way it ought to be, but it's the way it is.

I would also like to respond to the friends and neighbors of the 15-year-old boy who was killed in this incident. First and foremost, I am very sorry for your loss. Regardless of whatever trouble he may have gotten into in his short life, he was somebody's son and many people's friend, so he deserves to be mourned and will be missed. Having said that, we must acknowledge the fact that this accident WAS his fault. It was a mistake, of course, and we all make them-- but it was his mistake. Does it make his death any less tragic? Of course not. But he was not a victim. He was doing something he should not have been doing and paid the ultimate price. I truly hope his friends will learn from his choices.

The only victim in this tragedy is the driver of the van, who was doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing and yet was beaten to the point of hospitalization. My heart goes out to his family, too. The witnesses and friends who have made excuses for this brutal beating are doing a huge disservice to their community. HOW COULD YOU NOT EXPECT MORE FROM YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS? If we are ever to rise above the mire of poverty and oppression, we must demand more from one another. We must not tolerate behavior that mirrors the negative stereotypes that are too often portrayed in the media. The truth of the matter is, that is NOT who most of us are, and those who condone that sort of attitude and behavior embarrass those of us who respect ourselves and our community enough not to degrade ourselves in that way. It's simple: be respectful, be responsible (which includes owning up to your mistakes!), and try to leave your corner of the world a little better than you found it. Empower yourselves and your communities to do the RIGHT thing rather than the EASY thing. The idea of those boys unleashing their rage and grief on someone who was guilty of NO wrongdoing whatsoever is appaling-- but even more appalling is the fact that there are people who excuse it.

Shame on you.

Posted by: elmcityguy | July 25, 2008 12:17 PM

This is great. The disconnect is with us, because he was only in possession of and riding the stolen bike, and the people doing the beating were just upset, and it's the stop signs fault that he didn't stop.

Maybe the disconnect is in the neighborhoods that allow their kids to run wild and cover up mob beatings from the police. Do you really think that next time this happens, and there will be a next time, that the driver will bother to stop, or do you think they'll drive like hell to get out of there, possibly hitting more people?

Posted by: Edward_H | July 25, 2008 12:32 PM

Anon

This "accident" was completely preventable through better road design, i.e., mini-circles instead of stop signs

How would this mini-circle prevent a [insert desired noun/adjective here] from driving a dirt bike down the street illegally in the first place?

In fact, cities have been sued for having stop signs, because they are highly ineffective and endanger lives.

People can sue cities for anything. Can you link the outcome of these lawsuits you refer to and the court rulings?

Posted by: Dispassionate Observer | July 25, 2008 12:52 PM

...a hard-care group of 200-300 young people in the city appear to be beyond the reach of social programs, that everyone from government to families needs to work together to engage them with extreme prejudice.

Posted by: Perplexed (aka confused) | July 25, 2008 2:04 PM

BFAIR,
Oh yes, you always see stolen dirtbikes being driven around (lets not even go into affluent suburbia) West Haven, the valley......What a stupid comment. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for you and yours! Kids are having kids and enough is enough. Doesn't matter if Q's parents are alive or not, he was SOMEONE'S responsibility. His dad knew the dirtbike was stolen by his friend. How about forbidding him to drive it around like a fool? Oh, my bad, HIS father was locked up for years. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I do feel bad for the loss of ANYONE but his family, neighborhood.... failed him. You can lead a horse to water, right? I do hope they catch the savages who beat the innocent van driver and that these thugs don't fall through the cracks. If you spent as much time in your community helping children like him as you spent pulling the race card, New Haven would be a better place!

Posted by: Norton St. | July 25, 2008 3:51 PM

Back in 2003 when i was 13 someone who i knew vaguely through a friend had a go-cart. One day after school i met up with some friends from school and this kid with the go-cart outside of his house on colony road in beaver hills. the kid was takin everyone out for a spin on it up and down the long block, when it was my turn he took me up to the corner then we switched places and a drove, i went slow at first, testing the gas, then when i felt i was somewhat in control i drove back towards his house, when we were close i tried to apply the brake but it was unlike the brake in a car, and i had a very tough time breaking so i panicked and unintentionally pressed down with both feet (on a go-cart the brake and gas are used by separate feet) causing the go-cart to speed up. We were headed towards crescent street which is a very busy road at that time of the day, in desperation i steered sharply up a driveway in the hopes that the incline would slow the go-cart down, i barely hit the small lip on the curb with the back tire and popped it. Both me and the kid who owned to go-cart were shaken up but fine. Just then it started to pour rain so everyone headed home, and the kid said "i never should have let them talk me in to taking this out", which i took to mean that the other kids that were there had convinced the kid to take the cart out when he wasnt supposed to, since his parents werent back from work yet. Prior to him saying that i had no idea whether or not he actually owned the vehicle.
If this kid had lived in a much denser neighborhood like Newhallville that day probably wouldve ended up much differently, but since he lived on a street that was mostly deserted i didnt hit anyone.
I dont think anyone on this thread knows if what Cornell did was criminal, he easily could have not known the bike was stolen, and he easily could not have been familiar with the braking system. His friends did what they did for an understandable reason, but it is also criminal and they should do some time for that. One kid is dead, a man is injured and a bunch of people who don't know what theyre talking about are complaining on a website; congratulations, you're all awful.

Posted by: ball-zee | July 25, 2008 4:08 PM

I tried to stay away from the issue because of the childs family. However, taking responsibility for your actions makes you a real man or women. These cowards who attacked an innocent man who was obviously in the wrong place at the wrong time need to be caught and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. This is not because the kids are black, but because they are criminals who committed a crime. Children and teens do make mistakes but if the man was killed would people still think it was kids being kids. I hope not.
Anytime a child is removed from this world people are robbed of his future. The family now has a hole in their family that can never be filled.
People need to seek responsiblity and grow into better people who can offer their communities a way out. A disenfranchised youth who doesnt have the opportunity to see positive role models will be challenged more than others to succeed. Eduacation and accountability for your children is a forgotten belief that is helping to destroy the family model. PARENTS EVEN IF U R UNEDUACATED MAKE YOUR CHILDREN LEARN. MY FATHER ALWAYS SAID GO TO SCHOOL SO U WONT END UP LIKE ME.
WAKE UP NEWHAVEN YOUR YOUTH ARE DESTROYING THEMSELVES. DO SOMETHING BEFORE ITS TO LATE

Posted by: Desi | July 25, 2008 4:22 PM

James you said "Actually, it is not by the grace of God. It is by being responsible for my own safety and that of others".

Oh yes, we do have a responsibility to be responsible. But even at our best we still come short. These are young teenagers, yes they should have known better by our standards, but for some reasons they acted differently. Yes this is a mess, and undeniably hard to understand, BUT - We still need to show mercy. For it is by the Mercy and Grace of God that we all have not been consumed by something we did that was stupid, disobedient and careless in our past, and due to your sound of un forgiveness, it seems to be in our present and future too.

I applaud you oh high and mighty one, who has done everything right, God knows I haven't. But you must have never made an illegal move, never lied, never had sex out of wedlock, done drugs, used bad language, and betrayed someone's trust to the point of hurt. Have you ever cut someone off on any road, or even on the best of days things you meant to do that was good that turned out very bad. I applaud you it seems to me that you have neither lived nor grown in life. See it takes bad decisions, mistakes, and mess-ups to make good decision in life YO!

You know what.....You pompous people! Who would love to be God, I am so glad you are not. People wake up because the truth is, this hurts everyone differently, but right now everyone needs to make the decision to help and not continue to hurt. We all have done some things and haven't got caught that could have made life worse for many........or have you? Because it seems like a lot of the people writing in on this unfortunate situation, are just acting like yall are all dat yo! But do know this..... Show no mercy get no mercy. Your day will come will you will need forgiveness, kindness and more when many will feel like you don't deserve it.

I am still praying for all of us, because we all have to be accountable for ourselves, we all have to live, teach, and receive by example. We still need each others help in some way shape or form.

Please help us heal and not continue to kill.

Posted by: James | July 25, 2008 5:55 PM

Desi, your list of "things James has never done" reads more like a list of my daily itinerary as a teen and young adult. I don't claim to be perfect. I do try to obey the law and look out for myself and others, but if you think that makes me high and mighty we have some real problems.

But my point is that there is a vast difference between staying out all night drinking and making my mama cry and driving an illegal vehicle on heavily populated streets at high speeds. No matter how high I was in my youth, I never did anything that would endanger the lives of others - only myself. Don't you see the difference between skipping classes to smoke in the alley behind the school and dragging a man from his vehicle and beating him?

Have you seen these kids zipping in and out of traffic? Have you seen their disregard for the lives of others? How can you liken the mistakes that everybody makes in life to behaving in a manner that puts everybody else in danger? How can you defend the pervasive attitude that these kids hold that they are not beholden to the law and if you dare call them on it or get in their way they'll tear you down?

Let me liken it to a frequent experience I have driving back from work. I'm driving down the street, green lights ahead, doing 25 (the speed limit). Some kid steps off the curb in the middle of the street and slowly saunters across the road. I have to jam on my breaks or swerve to avoid him. Or I just honk at him for being so stupid and arrogant. His response is to stare me down as if to ask, "How dare you try to drive down the street while I am present." I've been spit at and had rocks thrown at my car for daring to honk at two kids having a conversation in the middle of a busy street like there was nobody else there. These aren't youthful indescrtions. This is complete contempt for society.

This is the same attitude we saw here in this accident. These kids not only feel no need to behave in a socially acceptable manner, but hold others in contempt for doing so. Will beat you for doing so. No, we all make mistakes. Some mistakes are just bigger than others. And when you know the consequences of your actions and choose to go ahead with it anyway, that's not a mistake. That's an act of aggression and contempt for human life.

I do feel for this kid's friends and family. I know the pain of losing a loved one and hurt is hurt, no matter who you are or what you did. But it gets harder and harder to sympathize with people who refuse to take responsibility for their actions. Millions of people manage to raise kids who don't steal, who don't shoot at each other, who don't beat accident victims because they don't know how to handle emotion or simply don't care.

Let me ask you a question. What if Cornell had gone out with a gun and started firing randomly into the street? Would you still be defending his actions as a youthful indiscretion? Because what he did wasn't much different. He took an item capable of killing and brought it out into the streets without any thought for what harm he might do. And he did whatever he felt like doing.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 25, 2008 8:36 PM

First Norton street witnesses said he was driving the bike up and down the street for quit some time so he knew how to operate it. People here are venting, releasing the feelings that this situation has made them feel. FRUSTRATION, ANGER, DISAPPOINTMENT are just some. I think this is a healthier way for expression than to gang up and beat on some one. This is a group of people with the love of this city sharing there feelings. I will not just single out this young man to be the only person in this city with disrespect for the rules of the road. I drive to work and every single day YALE students and construction workers work right into the street in the middle off on coming traffic with out even looking both ways!!! EDUCATE YOURSELVES WHAT THE LAWS ARE IN CONN!!!
Barbara you lost me again...still luv ya but please stop making excuses for these kids TOUGH LOVE!!! NO EXCUSES!!! My fathers words to me and my words to my kids...life is not fair and some of us get the short end of the stick. Life is truly what you make of it. I learned that the hard way and I know you did to. But you know that these are tough kids, they will just use suckers that come in and pet them. They need the out reach workers, but they also need a swift kick in the ass. You see a kid acting up...lock him up in adult prison for a week lets see if that won't straighten his ass out! Stop it Barbara lack of HEALTHY discipline in their lives is what is missing. Not fluff.

Posted by: Fmr Dwight Neighborhooder | July 25, 2008 9:23 PM

All this talk about the need for more outreach workers and "programs" is so naive. Does anyone really think that the kind of kids who assault people and steal are going to go do arts and crafts in a boys' club? Please.

Posted by: Simple | July 26, 2008 12:19 AM

Guy wrecks stolen bike by running into van, and then guys thug buddies, possibly gang members, attack van driver (who stopped, obviously).
1. Kid is at fault, buddies are at fault.
2. The damage inflicted on the innocent driver was severe, so charges should be serious...ala attempted murder.
3. I do not give a crap how 'disconnected' they are. Let them get 'connected' in state prison for 30 years.

Posted by: Sara | July 26, 2008 12:54 AM

Sooner or later the Black community is going to have to respect the concept of American justice. Beating an innocent man in a mob attack is not justice. It was not justice when the white klan did it and it is not justice when the klan with a tan does it. Mob violence is disgraceful; the lowest of the lowest behavior in human societies. It is animalistic and shameful. There is no excuse for it.

We had a tragedy of a young man making a wrong move and crashing and dying. Now we have the shameful mob violence against the innocent driver to add to the horror. Way to go idiots! Turn them in so they can get the justice they denied to the driver of the van!

Posted by: David Streever | July 26, 2008 8:51 AM

According to the news, his name is Quinell. Not Cornell.

Maybe you all are too busy spouting your own philosophy to have the time to read or comprehend.

Stop talking so much. If you don't know the situation personally, or have nothing meaningful to add, all you do is add fuel to the fire all for the sake of seeing your words on a website.

This is a tragedy, no matter how you break it down or look at it.

Posted by: last straw | July 26, 2008 10:03 AM

BFair...

"Reality check:suburban kids are out of control too"

Yep, smoking pot in the woods is just as bad as beating an innocent man to near-death and having the community cover it up for you.

Posted by: Desi | July 26, 2008 11:03 AM

Thanks David Streever, I know this has been my mindset all along.

James alot of what you have added is true, There are many who havent done any of the above. But they have done something. I am not excusing what happened per the reported news. But it has happened and lives will forever be changed regardles of who you point your finger, your outrage for this incident and your feelings of discuss and hurt at.

Its a tragedy, YES it could of been prevented if everyone acted like we wanted them to. But one thing I know about living this life, is that everyone is different, in mind, in culture, in structure, in family values, in education, ect. But one thing we are not different in is this, we all hurt when someone leaves us and is mistreated. all of what we are saying in this blog, is in someway the answer to protect our children, our homes, and our lives.

I appologize for my sarcastic remark about you James being perfect. I know there is no such person. But just try to be mindful to present a way to help, heal, and contructively strengthen all who have not had what good you have had, so if you help one, thats one saved and move on to help another.

This is it for me on this. I have love the Payne family since I was 13 years old and I am sadden by their recent situations, just burying their Mom and now a son, all in two weeks time. At the same time I know the driver of the van has to heal and recover, mentally and physically too.

God help us through this one, as you have many times before when we didn't understand why!

Posted by: James | July 26, 2008 11:51 AM

David, yes, and according to those who claim to know him as well as other news sources (WTNH), his name was "Cornell." So get off your condescending high horse and heed your own advice. Read. Comprehend.

I don't see how one needs to have been on site or known Cornell/Quinell personally to have an opinion on crime and lawlessness in New Haven. As for the value of commenting to see one's words on a website, I'd like to direct you to the self-important, 10-speed musings at http://www.davidstreever.com

Posted by: jackie | July 26, 2008 1:22 PM

David Streever:

Hmm. Asia aka Tweetie F. Babie seems to "know the situation personally" and called him "Cornell." Others, too. Maybe those posts were edited? Doubt it.

So I quote:
"Maybe you all are too busy spouting your own philosophy to have the time to read or comprehend."

Right. What's your philosophy, now? A dubious and emotionally driven wish to deny who are the true criminals in this situation and in this scity? Thank *goodness* people are talking about the event on this website and around town -- hopefully we're all finally able to see what the consequences of this city's clearly laissez-faire attitude toward its highly visible criminal youth element can be.

I'm all for prevention. But when it fails, there OUGHT to be consequences to those actions that are as plain to see as the kids on dirtbikes and ATVs.

Posted by: dingo | July 26, 2008 1:24 PM

With the political climate in this country.. I fear we will see much much more of this type of violence.

Me personally, If a mob attacks me, I am taking at the very least, a few with me. I AM OVER this type of mob crap

Posted by: Sheltiman | July 26, 2008 2:21 PM

The Mayor says that a hard-care group of 200-300 young people in the city appear to be beyond the reach of social programs. Hey I've got an idea! Put a dirt bike out on the sidewalk with a net above it poised to drop. When one of these "unreachables" tries to steal it, drop the net like they do in the cartoons, and then you've got em! What you do with them from there, I haven't a clue, but just keep them out of my neighborhood.

Posted by: king james v | July 26, 2008 11:59 PM

This is a BAD thing. Nothing good and everything evil has come of this incident. From the tragic death of a young man, to the severe beating of an apparent innocent, random working man in his company vehicle, to the racial tensions and what appears to be a very possible spark of hate crimes to come.
On top of this I've basicly been told by the editor of this news source, and a very good one at that, that I need his approval of just what words i can and cannot digest for myself. In particular his ommision of at least the use of the word "animal" to describe the very UN-human actions of an angry and out of control mob. It is not a word i w3ould have used becaues i am sensitive to it's apparent racial overtones, but anyone who's grown up in new haven knows that we tend to speak frankly and without regard (in general) to those easily offended by curse words. I think i'm grown up enough to handle a gauntlet of offensive talk, hell, i even catch fox news sometimes to see what the other side is up to, and i have yet to cause bodily harm to myself, another human or my pets. The actions taken by this group of people was barbaric, it was completely without regard to law, reason or "The judeo-Christian Spirit" Had this happened in East Haven, Durham or Madison, it would have generate d(as it should) marches by Civil Rights organizations and outraged citizens.
The black community of New haven, the leaders who are ready to step up and make a real difference - need to hammer home that the black community in new haven needs to immediately take control of itself - just as the Jewish community has done, the Asian immigrants, Europeans, Muslims and African Latin communities (a large portion of which most new haveners would call "black" but they themselves often wish to delineate).
I'd love to hear the opinions of Mr. No Tow - the great and omnicient Rev. Boise Kimber - he's been pretty quite. I'd also like to hear from Aldermen Morehead, Shah and Blango. I'd like to hear from people like Rep. Dyson, Sen. Harp and the local NAACP.
Fair is fair.

Posted by: David Streever | July 27, 2008 12:32 AM

Look,

How much time have you people spent?

An anonymous person claims it's cornell?

The article clearly uses Quinnel.

I have a real identity, James, Jackie, and all.

You cowards sit there on YOUR high horses and talk about a situation you know nothing about. You take the words of anonymous internet cowards over the paper here.

Grow up.

What is so dissapointing is the 70+ comments of racism, stupidty, arguing, bickering, and general idiocy this article generated, versus the 3 comments about the cop who did a good job. You people argue with each other even when anyone reading the comment can tell you agree with each other.

My philosophy is your lazy & you don't do anything for your community, so you have an excess of time to make uninformed comments.

Don't send me your comments about 10 speeds, you anonymous freak: I'm too busy working in my community to talk to you.

Seriously, all of you, get off your damn computers for 30 minutes and go make a difference in your neighborhood. Work in the park. Put on an event.

Stop sitting here & playing armchair general.

If any of you don't like it, just say it to my face. I'm at 3 meetings a month for community involvement, & work in East Rock park every thursday. If you don't like it, come out, do an hour or two of real community work, & then we can sit down and talk. In the meantime, put your money where your mouth is.

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | July 27, 2008 7:16 AM

"Mayor DeStefano said Thursday that police initially got a call around 1 p.m. Wednesday about kids taking turns racing around Newhallville on a stolen dirt bike. The cops weren't able to track the kids down."

Absolute BS! If they wanted to, they could have. Wasn't he or his family well known to the system? As much as I blame the kid and his cohorts for this, most of it rests with the police not doing, or wanting to do, their job the first time a juvenile drove an ATV or motorbike in the street, let alone a stolen one. As previously blogged, it's called "Broken Windows" popularized and effectively carried out by Ray Kelly in NYC. Unlike any efforts New Haven made in the past 20 years, this works!

I noticed by some, what looked like, school sport photos of the boy that he had a Hamden football shirt on. Was he a Hamden resident at one time or enrolled in Hamden High?

Posted by: David Streever | July 27, 2008 9:09 AM

Jackie:
Emotional needs aren't philosophy.

I get involved in communities & do actual work. I don't write stupidity on an internet message board. If I write about traffic enforcement, it is because I work with the police & the city to improve it.

If I write about cycling safety, it's because I DO IT. I work to improve the city.

I don't sit in my ivory tower office & whine--I get out there. I ride around a bad neighborhood and talk to kids about going to the New Haven Bike Collective. Most of them are very receptive.

Talk is cheap. You want to walk the walk, again, come join me some time. James ascertained my identity. Next thursday, come to east rock park at 6. Do two hours of work, then we can talk. The location is the ball field--the section of the park towards Hamden.

If you'd rather, keep posting your thoughts/feelings on an internet message board anonymously & calling out people who have integrity and do meaningful work in the community. I'm sure you'll amuse the other cowards who can't use their names here.

Posted by: Edward_H | July 27, 2008 9:32 AM

David Streever

If you don't know the situation personally, or have nothing meaningful to add, all you do is add fuel to the fire all for the sake of seeing your words on a website.

Forgive me but what was so meaningful in your post? Or do you know the situation personally?

Pot to kettle: Hello!!

Posted by: bfair | July 27, 2008 11:43 AM

Cedarhill if you got lost in the context of my post, let me help you out some. Obviously living a different expereince. Did you see "Black In America' on CNN last week? Even African Americans being raised in the same houselhold live diffferent expereinces. I'm certain the same could be done on White America but the media loves to focus on us. In my post I sent prayers to both sides of this tragedy because that is the HUMANE thing to do. Second I brought out the point that we are ASSUMING this kid STOLE the bike and drove it into a truck "with no regard for human life"with no evidence that he was anymore than a kid out having fun on a bike that day(right or wrong) and drove too fast and couldn't stop at the corner. A tragic accident that led to a group of his friends who watched in horror at their friend dying and reacted to the adrenaline rushing through their bodies and attacked who they felt (irrationally) hurt him. (the same adrenaline that we excuse cops for when they assault, tase and kill someone thinking (irrationally) that their lives were in danger)That was being EMPHATHETIC, not making excuses for the youth's reckless and maybe lawless behavior. Unlike Sara:The Black community endures Amerikkkan justice everyday and the mob mentality that goes with it.Read the unaltered history of Amerikkka. It's difficult to respect a sytem that is so unfair and unapologetic for it ,and racist and econmically biased to its core. As We try to address violence we need to set a better example. We can't resolve all our conflicts with violence, establishing a pattern of behavior and then blame the youth for following our example. Last Straw and Perplexed didn't want to acknowledge that sububan youth are out of control too, Sorry, but they too are engaing in premarital sex,kids having kids (when they don't abort), underage smoking and drinking (which their parents allow), truant and drop outs, assaulting youth and adults (including their parents and grandparents)not just smoking weed in the woods.It's not ALL suburban kids and it's unfair to paint them all the same just as its unfair to paint all INNERCITY kids with same brush.Simple reacts to the disconnect by "connecting them with the system for 30 years. Where was he when the parent in West Haven beat another the coach down with a baseball bat at a game in front of hundreds of horrifed children and parents causing lifelong injury for the coach and yet walked away with probation having never seen the inside of a jail cell. Perplexed,FYI I spend much of my time in the community helping kids and their families. That's what i do and I also speak on race when I see the card being played. Race was played out many times in these posts including calling the youth "animals", "Porch thugs" New Haven residents as "borderline funcitonal with mental retardation, missing parents,kids having kids, incarcerated parents and other stereotypical terms used to characterize African Americans. James,Some of the posts ( we can agree to disagree) were more than "tinged with racism". I'm not looking for the boogey man. In situations like this he isn't far away.Posters doesn't have to say the n-word for me to hear the indifference. I'm with Desi, I'm done on this one.

Posted by: Edward_H | July 27, 2008 12:00 PM

BJFAIR

mak