New Haven Independent

Posted by: king james v | July 29, 2008 2:00 PM

The culture of "no snitching" is pretty much limited to the black community - at least here in greater new haven. This is a very large part of why Black on Black crime goes largely unsolved.
When the community has been decimated enough, they'll grow tired of the "no snitching" b-s, and you will see black on black crimes get solved, and in turn you will see the rate of such crimes drop. Helping to catch a murderer or rapist or thief is not snitching, it is improving your neighborhood, and the life of your family.

Posted by: Bill Saunders | July 29, 2008 2:05 PM

Alderman Blango,

If you are seeking State Office, you need to be a better leader than this.

Posted by: Cheri | July 29, 2008 2:07 PM

I'm still mystified by the total denial (of some) that this kid essentially killed himself. He did ram the dirt bike into the van!
I completely understand that his family and friends loved him, and must feel horribly. But, there seems to be a lack of reality and responsibility in the folks who witnessed the accident and subsequent beating. People who were there know who did the beating, and if they had any scruples, they would acknowledge who was in the wrong concerning the accident, and they would identify the young men who beat the innocent driver.

Posted by: Daniel Sumrall | July 29, 2008 2:23 PM

The 15 yr old was in the wrong & paid for it; it should serve as a lesson to all children and parents--act in an reckless manner and you will get severely hurt.

The van driver wasn't in the wrong and was brutally victimized; it should serve as a lesson to all in the neighborhood (and city)--we're letting hooligans enact vigilante 'justice.'

Just imagine if these brutes had followed the Edgewood patrol model and carried guns with them...

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 29, 2008 2:28 PM

Blango...We incarcerate guys 23 hours a day. They come out, they can't get jobs after they've done time."
Last night at the East Rock Mang. Team we got to meet the new Chief (which so far I am liking) He said something that made SOOOOOO much sense to me, at least the way I heard it. Para-phrasing...we need to have jobs for people BUT..first we need to make this a safe city...so company's want to business here. The question is...what jobs Blango..."good citizens" that follow the rules are having a hard time finding work...solution..make this city safe so that there are jobs to be had.

Posted by: Ben | July 29, 2008 3:29 PM

King James,
I agree with you in all respects except for the statement that "no snitching" is a black thing.
There are many communities of race and color besides the "black community" where there is an epidemic of silence when it comes to reporting crime.

Ask the Italian mafia about their success with this policy.

The common element about people who hold to this credo is not race but rather their inability to take responsibility for their community at any cost.

Posted by: Patrick V Gore | July 29, 2008 5:58 PM

The death of this young man is hurtful and tragic but the individuals that attacked the van driver should be found and brought to justice with the utmost urgency. people should not be allowed to take the law into there own hands or act out because they are emotional or upset this mindset contributes to some of the negative behaviors in the (ville) or newhallville. Being a life long resident of newhallville as well as a state and federal employee and navy veteran it is about time we step up as a coommunity to stop the deterioration of one of the best communities in new haven before it is too late

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 29, 2008 6:41 PM

Ok did anyone see this video at the registrar??? Give me a break WTF
http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19875678&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=635049&rfi=6

Posted by: James | July 29, 2008 7:10 PM

Sorry, maybe I watch too much TV or am just ignorant. But you have people on broadcast television admitting to having observed the incident, indicated that they were Quinell/Cornell's friends, but don't know who did it? How about arresting them for obstruction of justice or impeding a police investigation? But oh, they're afraid! But they weren't afraid to talk to the cameras? Come on? Covering up for these thugs is nearly as bad as committing the act itself. I say lock up those witnesses until they have something to day.

Posted by: concerned jake | July 29, 2008 8:17 PM

I blame the parents

Posted by: mach1 | July 29, 2008 9:13 PM

people want to tell, and as we all know- the fact is that they are afraid to tell.people will stand up and tell, then must face the defendant in court and be labeled a snitch. in bridgeport, a young child and mother were murdered for sigining a statement and waiting to testify against a murderer. there was little legislation or talk of new laws against defendants that intimidate those who testify, unlike the Cheshire tragedy that changed legislation and made national headlines. we have even seen an increase in the number of probation/parole officers as a result and an overhaul of the parole board system. the register discloses whistleblower's names when the cases reach trial. the whistleblowers are left in the community with the 'snitch' label.i have seen many cases where the defendants or families make threats or physically harm testifyers. i have also seen people take the weight for cases that they were not involved or their level of involvement was not as portrayed in arrest reports because they are afraid to tell. we have defense lawyers who openly disclose the names of whistleblowers to their clients. it is too easy for a prosecutor to tell a defendant to tell or suffer the consequences when there is little protection for the whistleblower.
and...as a young man once told me when i confronted him about the need for young men to tell when they see a crime...' i will start snitching, when the police start snitching on fellow officers who involve themselves in criminal activity.' what a fine example...i won't say that it is correct, but i understand.

Posted by: James | July 29, 2008 9:36 PM

I blame David Streever

Posted by: -fairhavener- | July 30, 2008 12:27 AM

I blame Honda.

Posted by: Perplexed | July 30, 2008 6:55 AM

I can't believe Arnold Payne just put up his own home-made "all way" stop sign at the intersection. This man never believed in following laws and now he thinks he's going to make them up? What a laugh. What are they going to do when people don't stop for it? This is another disaster in the making. I'm sure all the gainfully employed thugs are going to take shifts to see who stops or not. Genocide in the making.

Posted by: Walt | July 30, 2008 7:19 AM

Everybody knows Bush is to blame!

Obama will fix it!

Posted by: cedarhillresident | July 30, 2008 8:16 AM

Perplexed
I will not judge the father for this attempt at this time...who knows...sometimes a tragic event really does change a person. He may become an asset to his community. I do however have a problem with them changing their story to the cops did it! Don't play that game!

Posted by: NHResident | July 30, 2008 8:17 AM

The cop who earned $147,000 in 2007 should have found the driver's assaillants. He is overpaid and should overdo his job.

Why was community policing suppressed/reduced in New Haven? The cops should have witnessed the event. Why is the police always so absent in poor neighborhoods while they are still allocated the biggest town budgets?

Posted by: dorian | July 30, 2008 9:25 AM

This is the city that Mr. DeStefano built and, sadly, we have to live with it. I wonder what his "golden child," who DeStefano could not wait to endorse - Mr. Obama - would have to say about this? Two of a kind - hot air, bad judgment, inaction when it counts. John, saying this incident is "unacceptable" is hardly the stuff of leadership. It is you and the city you deconstructed that are unacceptable.

Posted by: fedupwithliberals | July 30, 2008 9:39 AM

NHRESIDENT

Because people in poor neighborhoods scream bloody "profiling" and "police brutality" in front of the press and civilian review boards when the cops try to do their jobs, then turn around and ask "where are the police?" when these crimes happen. Can't have it both ways.

Posted by: Westville Mom | July 30, 2008 9:40 AM

Mach 1:
Correction: There was, in fact, a witness protection law created after the murders of B.J. Brown and his mother:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D04E0DD153CF93AA35754C0A96F958260

CT doesn't need selective memory and bogus comparisons of the Bridgeport and Cheshire murders. It's counter-productive and racist. Both were horrific and both prompted swift action. And, it's useful to point out that Bridgeport was black-on-black crime, while Cheshire was white-on-white. Let's not manufacture more problems in this community than we already have, thank you.

Posted by: Hooligan | July 30, 2008 1:18 PM

NHRESIDENT

I have to say this again , stop watching sooo much television, and repeating that same old tired response " how cops' don't patrol the poor neighborhoods ", that statement is just not true.

If you bothered to attend a block watch meeting with the police and actually seen a detail, you would see that most cop's are assigned the poorer neighborhoods. Most resources are for the poorer neighborhoods.

Stop watching Springer and get out and attended a block watch meeting.

Posted by: Deuce | July 30, 2008 2:32 PM

"I blame David Streever"

LOL! Post of the week!

Posted by: Trish | July 30, 2008 5:25 PM

NHResident:
FYI the highest paid cop made $174,ooo and, besides extra jobs, he was in the bad neighborhoods. Problem is, he wasn't here to raise the 3 or 4 kids that the majority of unemployed women had (along with their unemployed/incarcerated/deceased....put in whatever you choose baby's daddys. The cops in this city aren't obligated to watch these kids 24/7...they pick up the mess during or after things have already happened. If the cops chase the dirt bikes, they get yelled at in the interest of public safety. Again, the message here is: Take care of your RESPONSIBILITIES or use some birth control. I am in social services and yes, I'm tired of being tired because of people who make bad choice, make excuses and point the fingeres elsewhere. It's not about any specific race. Many of the people that the police protect take away from a cop's salary. 3 or 4 generations of welfare? Who is screwin' who here? Minorities have the most opportunities today for school. Kids like Quinnell chose to leave or, if he behaved, could've stayed in school. The register now mention's his mother. Gee, two parents and neither raised him with respect or values. If he valued and respected himself, this would've never happened. I hope the van driver has a speedy recovery.

Posted by: NHResident | July 30, 2008 7:13 PM

fedupwithliberals and Hooligan,

Cheap patriotism that tries to turn a blind eye on a clear failure will never solve community issues.

Why not start trying to find the root causes of communities' (not only Blacks) distrust of the police? Why is community policing abandoned?

In Newark, NJ, it looks like the new major is successfull pushing out gangs to other towns, just by installing cameras every where.

There are so many strategies a city leadership can try, instead of just keep telling us that our cops are working hard while things are going wild in our communities.

It's not just about working hard with failing strategies. The city should try new strategies, new approaches, new tactics that seek to understand the issues before implementing workable solutions.

It is a shameful failure when an x-term major would not know why people do not trust his cops. It's just a failure.

Posted by: Edward_H | July 30, 2008 7:21 PM

I blame Hillary Clinton!!

All of her "It Takes a Village" nonsense. Now all these people think society is responsible for raising their kids.

(And before someone starts whining. No by "these people" I am not talking about black people. I am talking about irresponsible lazy parents of every background. Cant be too careful in a day and age where someone thinks using the term "black hole' is a racial insult.)

Posted by: FIX THE SCHOOLS | July 30, 2008 8:40 PM

Summer youth programs without a good education system is like putting band-aids on a gaping head wound. We need educational surgery and an intensive school district intervention strategy. If we had a GREAT K-12 system, there would be fewer tragedies like this one.

Let's demand change in the way that we educate our children! Demand a mayor and a superintendent who will:

- Immediately place as many low income children as possible into "Turbo-charter" schools like Amistad and Elm City College Prep;

- Go hand in hand with Yale to IMPLORE the people who run school systems like KIPP, Uncommon Schools, and Green Dot schools to come to New Haven and then transfer 1,000 kids per year for the next five years into these outstanding urban school programs;

- On the basis of equal education, DEMAND that the state give education vouchers to poor parents to allow their kids to transfer to local high performing parochial or private schools;

- Rapidly reduce the number of students in the lethargic traditional public system until that system can raise its performance level to average in the state. If it can't be done with 21,000 students, then try it with 10,000. Is 10,000 too many? How about 5,000? Until the district can fulfill its obligations to provide a good education, we should outsource the district to educators who have shown that they know how to get it done.

Now, some may disagree that a strategy like this will work. But to address the usual malarkey in advance, it's not about the money because no additional money has to be spent to do this. And its not about getting the parents to buy into it, because there is a long line of parents who put their kid's names in Amistad/ECCP lottery praying to win a future for their child. (If you have the stomach to witness one of the saddest things in our wealthy state, just go to a AF charter school lottery drawing and watch the faces of the parents and guardians as they see the chances of their kids educational future dwindle down to nothing as the last few names to be called are pulled out of the hat).

Well, the good news is that this aggressive reform strategy will no longer be a theoretical argument because this same strategy (sans the vouchers)is precisely what the Hartford school system is doing under the leadership of Mayor Perez and Supt. Adamowski. But just ask Mayo or Destefano what they know about Hartford's bold strategy and see what they say (Huh?).

For those of you who think an aggressive education strategy WOULD work in the long run, even for as few as 20% of the at-risk students (= 4,000 New Haven children), does anyone want to try to provide any conceivable rational for why we would not move REAL fast in this direction? Can anyone defend keeping children in crappy schools when they could go to great schools next year?

Does anyone believe that education is NOT the answer to poverty and all of it's symptoms?

And for the people who are most assuredly going to post about the indispensible role of supportive two-parent homes before ANY progress can be made with our wayward youth, you should know that KIPP, AF, JUMOKE all work for lots of kids who started out just like Quinell. You can look it up.

Posted by: FairHavenRes | July 31, 2008 1:12 AM

The Rev Boise Kimber, the mayor's favorite felon, has really lost any clout he might have had. The reverend wheeler and dealer has to pay his parking tickets and now wants to get some press from this tragedy. Geeze, how pathetic.

Quinell had a Malik Jones background. His decisions led to his death. Yes, the parents have some responsibility, but they could not control every waking moment of their wild and rebellous child. Too bad he had to die.

Even worse, his death and the reason for it will not change a damn thing. Those vicious teens who beat the driver, the no snitch witnesses in the neighborhood, and parents (generally speaking) will continue to fail to discipline their children before it is too late, all will just continue.

Discipling children helps them reflect on the consequences of their actions, it also helps them grow to be better citizens. Do you think the breakdown of the family has anything to do with our social problems today?

Posted by: moe | July 31, 2008 8:59 AM

feedupwith liderals
i agree they can't have it both ways...profiling.....racism.....give them 10 seconds in front of the news camera and see how fast they blame the police for not doing there jobs ....how fast they run to the civilian review board and say cops were to tough....and that was started with EMMA JONES (MALICK'S MOTHER)...i am not saying all in the black communities are bad..because there not..the good ones fear retaliation to....i know i am white in live in newhall the ville as they call it..some neighbors and my family have dinners once aweek..we been doing it for years...

Posted by: Stevesywonder | July 31, 2008 9:03 AM

There have been hundreds of posts on this tragedy, and I have been reading them with much interest. If nothing else, this is an incredible sociological commentary about New Haven.

It is said that time heals wounds. The NHPD probably know(s) the name(s) of some of the teens who beat the driver; a good detective already has the team roster of that Hamden (looks to be a frosh...I played for Hamden 15 years ago) football team, as well as having concluded interviews with teachers and neighbors. Perhaps I watch a bit too much Law and Order, but I would expect arrests shortly.

If I was a father, and I hope to be one soon, I could not imagine the loss of my son. From fireworks to underage drinking, I think most adults on these threads have skeletons in their high school closets. A stolen or borrowed dirt bike is what it is.

Tragically this incident 1) ended the life of a promising young man, 2) destroyed the life of the driver who, in addition to his physical injuries will probably have PTSD for the remainder of his life after this, and 3) will inevitably lead to the breaking of more families following the arrests of the other teens involved.

And now we have a city shattered and rocked to its core.

Posted by: Hooligan | July 31, 2008 6:54 PM

NHRESIDENT

For community policing to work , YOU NEED COP'S, the New Haven police department is understaffed, has been for almost two years!!!

The city is trying to build the ranks with two classes going on, but it takes time. How about a little credit for the great work they do. I walked out my house to a sea of patrol cars and learned that they caught (4) bank robbers after , FELONY pursuit. Great job, although they had Ferry St. tied up for a while, but I'm not complaining.

And for the people with there silly post about them doing work just because a new Chief stepped in is just plain stupid, look at the crime logs on the left side of the NHI, to see for yourselves, there isn't a boost in arrest.

Posted by: NHResident | July 31, 2008 10:40 PM

Hoolligan,

"the New Haven police department is understaffed".

So are we short of those "Patriots" who enroll in the police department with the ambition to get rid of the bad guys? And the profile of the bad guy is well known, as portrayed the best by Fox TV and the like.

Their profile of the bad guy is a black (or latino) guy, an irresponsible parent or an irresponsible kid who knows nothing else but having 3 to 4 kids, robbing, not "following the rules", taking his turn to serve time then exhausting his chances to get a job in a CT society where a white ex-convict has the same chances to get a job as a black graduate with a clean record, etc. This is a summary of the racist points made so far on this forum.

You may try everything to cover the open wound of the NH society; it will always come back on your face. Sometimes in the future, if nothing is done, insecurity will move from Newhallville and other minority neighborhoods to safer neighborhoods.

This is our problem to us all and we have to solve it.

This issue records unprecedented numbers of postings because it shows our cops' inability to do their job of protecting NH Residents. An individual was beaten to quite death. The eye witnesses of the beating do not trust the police and say nothing, because the cops should have been there on duty.

These are the same cops who often know nothing but arresting them for the same offenses they forgive in other neighborhoods, send them to a justice system that sets bail amounts they cannot afford, provide them with incompetent public defenders who only offer them plea bargains, leave them defenseless before a court system that solves all city problems with the single magic solution of sending as many minorities as possible to jail...

This case is exciting because it shows us the incapacity of our police to solve our security issues, which is their duty. Cops failing to do their job is a true reflection of a city leadership's failure.

Posted by: KAMB | August 1, 2008 12:29 AM

FED UP!

What a crock! Blango says we need programs for these kids?! WHAT PROGRAMS?! They need to get jobs. Not 'hanging out on the corner' jobs either. ...

I'm sick of paying my taxes for[people]... who cant act right. LOCK THEM UP and make them work in prison to earn their keep. When does it end!

And the writer of this story asks what difference it makes for the van driver victim of the beating? It makes all the difference in the world. When a white cop gets accused of something against a black citizen there is outrage and news on it for weeks. But when a black cop gets accused of the same thing on a black citizen its in and out of the news.

As far as the catchy ANOTHER BALCK ON BLACK CRIME goes unsloved. WHAT ANOTHER CROCK! What is the writer trying to do? They are insinuating the police dont care about solving the crime. THE ... neighbors who witnessed this never came forward to offer anything to the police. WOW, NICE COMMUNITY. WHEN CAN I MOVE IN, not. And dont give me the BS excuse about not trusting the police . . . . . the witnesses just DONT CARE about whats morally right.

Posted by: KAMB | August 1, 2008 8:18 AM

And to NHResident,
You wrote that the cops should have been there doing their job?! YOU REALLY believe there has to be a cop on the every corner 24-7 to make people act right? YOU MUST BE NIEVE. These kids drive these dirt bikes and quads all over the place and even when the cops are right there.

The cops chase them and the kids get into an accident and its the cops fault. The cops try to chase them away and its the cops fault for not catching them. WHY DONT YOU place blame on the kid riding the dirt bike on a public street who has no regard for his own safety or anyone elses?

If the kids really likes to ride dirt bikes, go ride them in the woods in upper Westville or somewhere else. THEY DONT CARE. DONT YOU GET IT? It's all about doing what they want to and living like cowboys.

When you make bad decisions bad things happen. BE ACCOUNTABLE and RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS.

Also, that kids father is part of the problem. He wants a stop sign for all 4 so other pepole will stop but that would not have made a difference if his son (RIP) never stops for it.

Posted by: Bob Abuey | August 1, 2008 12:52 PM

Come on Kamb, what youre saying just makes too much sense to be true!! You mean to tell me that personal responsibility and self respect will solve alot of our problems?? I dunno, I think we should just stick to blaming the cops and crying about what a "racist society" we live in. Besides, it is the cops faults anyways, there should be cops posted on EVERY street corner, every second of every hour of every day, its nobody elses fault but the cops when people commit crimes. (Sarcasm)

NHRESIDENT - GROW UP!

Posted by: citizen | August 1, 2008 3:25 PM

Don't blame it on John DeStefano. Or the police, the firemen, social agencies or the churches. The blame for this mess falls squarely on the parents ... who let them get away with illegal behavior, and the residents of the neighborhood, who turn a blind eye to crime on their own doorsteps. Stop complaining about how bad you're being treated, and take some responsibility for turning your own community around. Like most law abiding citiziens who have a respect for the law and for other peoples' property, I continue to ask: Why should any of us do anything to help if you won't lift a finger?

Posted by: Hooligan | August 1, 2008 7:22 PM

Nhresident

I read you response and I'm not suprised, you wrote about Fox T.V., that's what I'm trying to tell you....STOP watching so much T.V.

We have a force of 380 (give or take ), on any given shift you might have 50? or so, do the math. How in God's name can they be on every street corner on all shifts. It's common sense so I don't expect you to get it.

The citizens not giving up the names of the those who did the assault is simple, they have to live there and they don't want there names leaked for fear of retaliation. I'll tell you something I don't blame them, I would be scared to. This has nothing to do with distrust, more fear then anything.

And to address your rant on racism, I just hear cop out, I'm Latino and although I've experienced racism in my day, it's never been from cop's and I've never had my job taken by a white person with less education. Grow up as Bob said it, take responsibility for your own action and move forward. Adelante

Posted by: teacher | August 2, 2008 8:51 AM

Guess what? The truth lies somewhere in between "it's the parents' fault" and "it takes a village." The parents of the majority of New Haven's youth get them to school, encourage them to enroll in summer activities and find summer jobs, even work to enroll their kids in the city's charter and magnet schools. Most parents are doing "their jobs."

Clearly, if some kids are participating in mob brutality, reckless use of a stolen motorbike, and protection of those perpetrating the violence, then there has been some disconnect between what these youth have learned from their parents and the traits one needs to thrive in our community. In these cases, we do need the community to do triage.

Posted by: robn | August 3, 2008 8:52 AM

I'm outraged. Alderman Blango needs to get his act together and realized that its not a "wrong" to arrest and prosecute a pack of violent teens that assaulted one of our fellow law abiding citizens. He doesn't have to march, but he should be in that neighborood trying to pry loose the identities of the assailants. Barring that, the police should consider prosecuting people who withold evidence. The Omerta (code of silence) has to stop.

Posted by: Edward_H | August 3, 2008 10:21 AM

Robn

I agree with you but I doubt Blango will take any action. The parents of the teens are possible voters. Call me cynical but I don't see him taking a chance on losing any votes over this.

Posted by: NHResident | August 3, 2008 11:07 AM

robn,

"the police should consider prosecuting people who withold evidence"

Not only it would be hard for the police to prove that someone is withholding evidence, you need new laws to do so: anti civil rights laws precisely.

Since the issue is inefficiency of the police to find the offenders and it is also argued that the NH police is understaffed, why is this town leadership not exploring the solution of surveillance cameras on our streets, like in NYC and other towns in NJ?

Is camera surveillance that big of an investment in NH, Connecticut? Com' on! Are we in the electronics, Internet and wireless era or not? Are we in Campalla, Uganda, or are we in NH, CT?

Why do we keep pursuing stone age solutions of the police prouding themselves of working too hard to show their alleged patriotism while the solutions need to be proactive, innovative, contemporary and efficient?

Posted by: No Snitch Outreach | August 3, 2008 3:49 PM

Do our tax dollars pay for Outreach Workers? Is part of their purpose to serve the public good? Wouldn't it be a top priority for them to reach out to these kids, perhaps through the Payne family, with the message that the ONLY legitimate way to heal, move on and honor Quinnel's death is to realize that the neighborhood needs to be freed of 12 thugs? They are a crime wave waiting to happen -- or already in progress.

Consider this, New Haven, if these beaters get with this crime and continue the on the path that brought them to this act, of 12, how many will be the victim of a violent crime and how many of them will, before the end of their days, commit crimes worse than this? Emergency response, caring for any victim, pursuing and hopefully incarcerating the offender --- all burdens on our taxes.

Perhaps Doug Bethea is on top of this, and merely waiting for the driver to fully recover, so he can be brought back together with the 12 thugs some night in a vacant lot... under the watchful eye of neighborhood outreach workers and the turned backs of NHPD. God, I wish that was a creation of my own sick mind, but no, I recently read an account here at NHI all too similar.

Posted by: robn | August 4, 2008 1:15 PM

NHR,

You have a strange definition of civil rights if it includes witholding evidence....more to the point, you have an incorrect definition of civil rights.

Several neighbors are on public record (to the NHI, the Register and to the police) as having witnessed the event. Its not a violation of civil rights to compel someone to testify.

Posted by: joey | August 4, 2008 2:59 PM

Leta say NHresident has a 6 room house with 4 kids in that house, can NHresident be in every room to be sure that the kids are safe and do not get hurt? Or we can blame the design of the house for not having an open floor plan!

Use a little common sense