New Haven Independent

Posted by: cedarhillresident | August 7, 2008 8:58 AM

I am starting to feel that thing called hope again! My my this man is my kind of chief!!

Can I add a kudos for not just all the positive changes that he is promising to make, but the fact that some of the changes will cost money and he has yet to put that burden in the tax payers laps (SO BIG BRAVO FOR THAT TOO!!)

Love the comment: (which belong in the street, not on the sidewalk).

Posted by: Edward_H | August 7, 2008 9:37 AM

How is he going to be sure none of the people being arrested were not arrested falsely?

Posted by: James | August 7, 2008 9:43 AM

It's amazing how just talking tough will give us all hope again. It's been so long that we've lived with DeStafano's wishy-washy,soft on crime, coddle the criminals, don't upset the voting base BS that all Lewis has to do is SAY he's going to enforce the law and I get weak in the knees.

Chief Lewis, may I suggest that the fist John you get rid of go by the name of DeStefano?

Posted by: True New Havener | August 7, 2008 9:57 AM

"I never put it past our good friends at the CCLU [Connecticut Civil Liberties Union] to object to law and order," Rhodeen quipped.

"They object to a lot of things I've done in the past," said the chief, "but it doesn't mean I'm not doing them."

Okay now's the time to grow up chief. The CCLU has never objected to anything you have done because you arrived a few weeks ago. We don't need a cowboy, we need a police chief.

Civil rights are incredibly important and to take shots at the CCLU is ridiculous since they have been fighting for the rights of the poor, people of color, and all of us for a long time. You just got here and have not proven anything yet.

I am excited that you may make changes but I have been excited before. Like many New Haveners, I used to get stopped and frisked by NHPD for no other reason than the way I looked. And there is no need to go back to that place.

How about we demonstrate a level of sophistication on these issues and not some local version of George Bush's proud gutting of all of our civil rights.

We don't need litigation and we don't need cowboys. We need sound law enforcement, good solid community policing, real investigations and disassembling of drug gangs, a strategy to end violence and attention to quality of life issues like speeding.

If you go out and smack the community around, we will go back to a time before community policing when the police were the enemy in so many neighborhoods and who wants that?

As to putting the faces of Johns in the paper, I actually don't even have an opinion (though if they have not been convicted of a crime then we will just be opening up New Haven's coffers to hand out taxpayer money in lawsuits).

I just don't like the idea of a police chief thumbing his nose at our civil rights or the organizations committed to defending them.

And as for Rhodeen -- what exactly are you talking about? What "law and order" issue are you concerned about with regard to the CCLU? Where in the last decade has the CCLU stopped the aldermen or the NHPD from doing something about crime?

Beat down posse anyone? Been there.

Posted by: MORRIS COVE MF | August 7, 2008 9:57 AM

Nice work so far, chief! I like hearing about making more arrests a matter of public record, and his idea of taking out ads listing all arrests relating to prostitution is sheer genius. The fact that he has used it before and cares about the community over placating the CLUs is also impressive. Now let's see if and when all this comes into play. Promising is one thing, delivering is another.

Posted by: Deuce | August 7, 2008 10:02 AM

"Lewis said he'd do that by arresting the men seeking to pay for sex and publishing their names and towns in an ad in the local newspaper.

Committee chair Alex Rhodeen wondered if that would pass muster with civil liberties types".

It would be no different than the police blotter published in the newspaper everyday. Breaking the law is not a civil liberty. It is public record.

Posted by: downtown d | August 7, 2008 10:27 AM

i'm excited as well. the chief is aggressively restructuring an outdated police force. the chief said that they don't have radar devices in patrol cars, red/blue lights for detective vehicles, internet in substations, blackberries for the brass.

i'm also excited about the recent efforts by the legislature to revamp the retirement dilemma.

i concur - hope is in my head again.

Posted by: anon | August 7, 2008 10:38 AM

"They also said they'd prefer to have an officer respond in person when someone reports his or her car stolen. Even though it's not an emergency, it would make the victim feel that somebody cared about their personal catastrophe."

If that's the case, then they might also consider responding when a bicycle is stolen. Bicycles are often worth more than cars, are often people's primary form of transport, and typically much more difficult to recover.

Posted by: Esbe | August 7, 2008 10:45 AM

The CCLU bashing is lame. Publishing the names of Johns is clearly legal -- it is a public record already.

However, I am excited about cops-on-bikes. It has the advantages of a old-fashioned "beat cop" with more mobility. Members of Elm City Cycling might help with advice and support for fixing the bikes, if asked nicely and as long as the Chief continues to be pro-bike and pro-traffic safety. The anti-social 15-year-olds have figured out how good bikes are for committing crimes against pedestrians; let's give our police the same advantage as they work to protect us.

Posted by: downtown d | August 7, 2008 10:53 AM

in response to True New Havener:

The chief was reference the ACLU and other states' sections of the ACLU. His policies are different, and demand the attention of the civil liberties unions. They pass the test, everytime, which is what the chief was trying to say.

if you are to respond in the way you did to anyone, it would be the chair of the subcommittee, Alex Rhodeen, for smacking the civil liberties union.

I'm guessing the posting of names in the paper was something that other states' civil liberty unions objected (but they did not strike down, a very important litmus test to the legitimacy of the policy), but as deuce says, it's just like reporting any other crime committed.

I really appreciated how the chief said that he has not and would not make any special circumstance for johns' faces being published. finally some good character and moral compass.

Also, one thing the CCLU has affected in law and order is the use of traffic cameras to ticket red light offenders. So, there is one thing. I'm a fan of the ACLU and CCLU (as you said, who isn't a fan of an organization whose sole purpose is to defend and uphold our constitutional rights).

To call our new chief a 'cowboy' is not a good description, and to lump him in with George Bush is reverse-GOP-fear-tactics. I am unaware if you have met him yet, but the chief seems to be a progressive and even-minded man with a lot of realistic goals and new ideas (new to New Haven at least).

I for one, as stated twice this morning, am excited at the possibility of a safe city. At the possibility of true community policing by the community. At the restoration of the public's trust in its police. Yes we can together.

Posted by: anon | August 7, 2008 11:00 AM

The new chief has a refreshing way of working together, focusing on results and being honest in his assessments. I can see why he has developed so much respect and buy-in within the department so far.

It sounds like there will an emphasis on traffic at some point in the next year (e.g., mostly after the Academy class is ready, which is next spring), but it seems that something needs to be done to crack down urgently before more citizens are killed.

Please take at least two or three weeks this fall for a citywide enforcement blitz. Strictly enforce the letter of the law on speed limits and stop signs, and remove any unregistered vehicles and drivers who you catch from the road in the areas of the city with the worst traffic problems (you'll solve many of other problems doing that, too).

I might start with the 43 mph average speeds along Quinnipiac Avenue. Drivers basically use that street as an I-91 alternative, and it is a death trap waiting to happen. Focusing on the city's business/shopping districts such as Grand Avenue and Church Street, which people are currently afraid to drive to, bike to, or walk along due to serious traffic problems (a major reason why business is down) would be another good place to start and would also be highly visible to other drivers.

Posted by: Anonyme | August 7, 2008 11:14 AM

Edwards question is pretty important.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with the names and faces of those convicted of a crime being published in the paper. I used to want a circular in my Sunday paper with the names and faces of those around me who were repeat offenders. But publishing the name and face of someone who has just been arrested is iffy. Even if the "John" is found not guilty or if all the charges have been dropped his name and face will still trigger that criminal-perv reaction in too many people.

Lives are ruined by false accusations and arrests being publicized. People by and large are pretty stupid. Average is a sad low number and the bottom of the bell is way too wide. To expect the average slob in front of the TV freaking out because WTNH says manhole covers were stolen to follow-up on the status of an arrest/conviction is ridiculous. Sadly, to expect an outlet be it WTNH or the Register to follow up weeks or months after publishing or televising the name and face of an arrestee as having been cleared or found not-guilty is ridiculous as well. The arrestee would be lucky to have a one line mention clearing his name near the back of the paper where all the tag sales are advertised.

Posted by: East Rockette | August 7, 2008 11:46 AM

"Lewis said traffic enforcement is going to be a much higher priority than it has been up to now; the department will actually begin issuing tickets for moving violations."

Woot! Start calling those violations in to the Traffic Safety Hotline:

"Citizens can call 946-6956 or email TrafficSafety \at\ newhavenct.net to report general problem areas, e.g. "speeding on x street" (the more specific the better), license plate IDs of motorists committing traffic violations (call with location, type of violation, vehicle description and license plate number). Violators will be contacted. If an officer is needed at the scene, callers should still dial 911 or 946-6316"

Posted by: Cycle2 | August 7, 2008 11:53 AM

Love the idea of more bike cops! I have had the oppurtunity to meet Officer's Hammill, Palmer and Manware on a recent Critical Mass ride. New Haven needs more like them. Good work Chief Lewis, I concur with your views.

Posted by: 2nd Amendment | August 7, 2008 12:01 PM

Nice work, Chief. We should bring back stocks on the town green. It would be great to see King John as the first customer.

Posted by: FacChek | August 7, 2008 12:15 PM

Another good public relation job by Chief Lewis, But what are the FACTS? According to the Perf report, the New Haven police department is dis-organized and lacks updated policies and procedures. While it is practical and desirable to multi-task, doing so without a in- house inter-connected structure that effectively connects the four shifts, makes it highly unlikely that Lewis can accomplish all the previously unattended criminal elements he has placed on his own plate.

The question arises what has the department been doing about these daily issues before the arrival of Lewis???
The assumed answer would be not much.. "we don't have enough officers", "it will cost us more overtime". "We need more money from the BOA".
So, while it is attention getting for the public consumption, these issues are simply a continuation of business as usual.

The best practical approach is for the Chief to follow the perf recommendations and first define a comprehensive crime strategy in conjunction with the community. This is what the public wants to hear.... That you have effectively re-structured your department so that it can be on the same page and become more efficient at being proactive.

I agree, we need to become a more law and order community, even at the risk of more civilian law suits. The FACTS suggest that we defend law suits from civilians far better than we do from our own police employees

Posted by: Alphonse Credenza | August 7, 2008 1:01 PM

Since bikes were mentioned in commentary, let me add that perhaps the NHPD will enforce bike safety regulations by ticketing cyclists who don't obey the rules that allow them to ride on the street in the first place. Signal first before turning, don't drive through red lights, don't drive in the center of a lane....

Posted by: DingDong | August 7, 2008 1:51 PM

Here we go again Alphonse. Cyclists can drive in the center of the lane, if it unsafe for them to be near the edge. Cyclists need about three feet of room between them and parked cars in order not to be injured by opening doors. Someone else will have to provide the text of the state law on this.

Your obsessive cycle-hatred is certainly interesting but I do commend you for no longer insisting that bikes be on the sidewalk (but, for the record, the rules "require," not just "allow" bikes to be on the road). As for red lights, I agree with you.

Posted by: True New Havener | August 7, 2008 2:56 PM

Downtown D --

Good point on the traffic cameras. No doubt they would have a positive impact. I can see why CCLU would oppose on principle but I would disagree with CCLU on this one. Good catch -- I stand corrected.

My concern with the chief is that he seems to shoot from the hip with regard to civil liberties and that's not appropriate anywhere but especially here.

New Haven has a history of illegal wiretapping, of beating up teens for being black, and of putting the homeless in the paddy wagon without seat belts and then driving around so they flop from side to side on the benches. (For folks who don't know New Haven's history, check with Paul Bass on any of these rather well publicized excesses.)

Now all of this seems to be behind us and thank goodness but it is a slippery slope. And none of it did one thing to reduce crime. We reduced crime here when we moved away from violating people's rights and instead tried to solve crimes, break up gangs and work with the community. We got out of us and them and into just us.

Not knowing our history, this chief may feel a bit too comfortable calling out the CCLU with pride. Putting johns' names and faces in the paper is an interesting idea -- if they have already been found guilty. If the intent is to punish the Johns before they have been convicted-- which this would be -- then punishment before someone has been found guilty is problematic and do we really want our police doing that?

But again, I don't care about the johns issue. I care that in going about his public relations campaign, the chief has now on several occasions said that he is willing to push the envelope, to be in his words "aggressive." I believe he even said something like step up to the line but not cross it.

As someone who has lived here a long time, our history with aggressive enforcement is (1) it failed to reduce crime and (2) it alienated lots of law abiding people in our neighborhoods. I like for instance what he has to say about investing in technology -- NHPD seems to be way behind in that regard.

So how about more on how we are going to rebuild the detective bureau, work with federal law enforcement to infiltrate gangs, put more officers on the street, get back to community policing, and less of the cowboy antics.

I too share everyone's excitement that we may be turning a corner with new leadership. The chief enters with a lot of good will because we all want him to succeed. Now he should be sure to do as much listening as he is talking.

Posted by: Edward_H | August 7, 2008 2:58 PM

Why stop at men who are arrested for patronizing prostitutes. Add child molesters/predators and rapists to the newspaper list as well.

Posted by: anon | August 7, 2008 3:07 PM

Alphonse, bicyclists can legally drive in the center of the lane if they feel that it is safest to ride there (due to dooring, road conditions, visibility, or any number of other reasons).

Posted by: dede | August 7, 2008 3:10 PM

chief lewis..while you published photo'S OF THE JOHN'S also publish pictures of sex offenders in our neighborhoods...

Posted by: pedestrian-friendly | August 7, 2008 4:41 PM

Alphonse Credenza,

Could you please post a list of the number of human lives that have been lost each year due to irresponsible cyclist behavior (other than the crazy cyclist)?

I agree that bikes running red lights, blowing stop signs, and not signaling with turns is an issue.

I disagree that taking the lane is an issue though. When I ride my bike, I take the whole lane. It keeps cars from passing me too quickly, bumping me with their side mirrors, etc. It also makes me more visible.

As someone who has been hit twice on bike by SUV drivers that have carelessly run red lights, I urge you to think about where the problem really lies. Thanks.

Posted by: DingDong | August 7, 2008 5:14 PM

Very well said True New Havener!

Posted by: Deuce | August 7, 2008 5:25 PM

Edward H wrote: "Add child molesters/predators and rapists to the newspaper list as well".

Until then, we have this:

http://www.ct.gov/dps/cwp/view.asp?a=2157&Q=294474&dpsNav=|

Posted by: robn | August 7, 2008 8:27 PM

EH

Lists of registered sex offenders are already available. They are aggregated on this page and there are links to the offical state of ct site.

http://www.city-data.com/so/so-New-Haven-Connecticut.html

Posted by: Nestor Makhno | August 8, 2008 12:33 AM

Is there any evidence that posting photographs of johns in local newspapers truly curtails prostitution? Public shaming is becoming a fashionable police tactic, but I am skeptical if it does much good. Also, given newspapers' dwindling readership, it might be time for Lewis to update his model to include the inferior but more popular new media.

The CCLU might object to printing the names and photos of offenders, too, but the main opposition will likely come from libertarians who see prostitution as nothing more than an exchange between rational actors, and from those academic feminists who see prostitution as a form of sexual liberation. I find the arguments of these two camps about as relevant as the off-topic, bicycle-related exchanges between The Streeve and Alphonse Credenza, but Victimless Crime/Whore-as-Hero narratives are held by more people than you think.

Posted by: Snark | August 8, 2008 1:33 AM

Next he'll propose a no baggy pants ordinance.

Posted by: Doug | August 8, 2008 9:13 AM

Finally a Police Chief with some to guts!
Now we just have to replace the Mayor
Chief Lewis, can you recommend anyone who would make a good Mayor.

Posted by: Doug | August 8, 2008 9:19 AM

It's nice to see the pendulum swinging back in the direction of protecting the rights of law abiding citizens instead of law BREAKING citizens. Maybe the CCLU could back off a little and let New Haven try to save what's left of the city.

Posted by: Edward_H | August 8, 2008 9:46 AM

Duece and Robn

Sorry I should have been more specific and clear. I am asking that accused molesters & rapists be placed on this list. Just as it appears the chief would like to place accused johns in the paper. Not people who have been convicted. Come to think of it. Why don't we just create an online datatbase of everyone who gets arrested in New Haven. Why limit the public shaming to accused patronizers of prostitutes?

Posted by: Bruce | August 8, 2008 10:20 AM

Edward_H: most town papers have a "Police Log" that lists the names and addresses of people who have been arrested (not convicted) each week. New Haven's list may be just a bit too long for complete publication, but I believe Hamden and North Haven papers publish every arrest from running a stop sign to manslaughter.

And will someone buy Alphonse Credenza a bicycle already?

Posted by: Edward_H | August 8, 2008 10:44 AM

Bruce

You are right. I think online publication of arrest records is the way to go in the future. Newspapers are becoming increasingly irrelevant as time goes on. I would like to see a database of arrest records searchable by crime. Much like the NHI crime log.

Posted by: Walt | August 8, 2008 11:14 AM

So far, the new Chief seems great.

As to the ACLU and the CCLU, I imagine they must have done good a few times.

Can't recall any of their protests with which I have agreed however, from their fighting against efforts to cleanup comic books to their support of most gay and pornographite (new word?) and odd-folk goals and to remove religious -related references in various fields, etc.

If the CLU's support something, my first reaction, subject to correction, is to assume it is bad, and vice versa.

Posted by: Steve Ross | August 8, 2008 11:15 AM

Where's the stocks and pillories? When do we get to throw rotting vegetables at these scoundrels?

Posted by: Downtown D | August 8, 2008 11:20 AM

more comment on the chief 'calling out the CCLU with pride'.

at the meeting, i witnessed the head of the public safety committee call out the CCLU, and the chief witnessing that other states' sections of the ACLU had objected, but later allowed, his policies in other states.

i haven't heard him specify whether he publishes names and photos of johns before or after conviction, rather than accusation that everyone has stated so far on these posts. there is a big distinction, and someone should ask him.

Posted by: KAMB | August 9, 2008 11:29 AM

GO GET' EM CHIEF! I like the things the new chief is saying and doing. This city needs someone who shoots from the hip. HAIL TO THE CHIEF!

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | August 9, 2008 3:59 PM

I don't know what all the fuss is about the prostitutes. With cars being stolen, drivers getting beat on for no good reason, break ins and beatings of innocent citizens going on in East Rock and bicyclists being run down, you'd think that the "ho's" would be the last thing we should be worrying about.

Look at it this way. They are the most inexpensive, traffic calming measures that you could deploy in the neighborhood! Even Mayor DeStefano could make two positives out of the situation and legalize streetwalkers so that he could tax them to solve our budget woes!

Posted by: Edward_H | August 10, 2008 9:40 AM

FedUp

Areas where prostitution is allowed to go on unchecked usually become hot spots for other illegal actiivity ranging from drug sales, assaults, petty thefts, indecent exposure to motor vehicle accidents as drunk/high johns are cruising for "services". Also rampant prostitution make the quality of life absolutletly terrible for any neighborhood. While I can't speak for Fair Haven's problems with prostitution. (You can't pay me enough to drive through that area day or night). I used to live in The Bronx and I have seen first hand how cracking down on prostitution can have an incredible impact on reducing all sorts of crime and increase property values. I have seen "Johns" brazenly approach young girls in broad daylight and ask them "How much for a "(insert crude reference for a sexual act here)?". While prostitution is certainly not the biggest problem facing the area where my house is I certainly can understand why the current chief places cracking down on prostitution a high priority. Besides, some of the problems you mentioned don't are not caused by lack of police resources, they are caused by soiciopathic young savages and the people who enable them to continue their thuggish behavior unchecked. No police Chief could have stopped or prevented the disgusting attack on the van driver or make the people in Newhallville realize to improve their own lives they should turn the young criminals in.

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | August 10, 2008 12:58 PM

Edward H

While I agree with you on the fact that the perps are sociopaths, I completely blame the police for not cracking down on the minor offenses which tend to empower people to step up to more grandiose forms of antisocial behavior. Called "Broken Windows Theory" which Ray Kelly deployed in NYC with great success. Had the cops responded to the earlier calls for help from the neighbors wanting them to stop the dirt bikes racing around the neighborhood, we wouldn't be engaged in this discussion, and a boy would be alive.

I feel safer walking around NYC than any portion of New Haven because of their efforts to crack down on even the most minor of offenses. Could work here if you remove the PC restraints.

Posted by: citysavior | August 10, 2008 3:48 PM

I will believe it when I see it. talk the talk now walk the walk .when he starts putting his plan in place I'll believe it right now the chief is talking the talk and letting everyone hear what we want to hear. He has not reorganized any part of the police department or put resources into place to stop deaths and shootings. Schools will open soon and hopefully a plan will be in place. He talks a good game lets see how long the city hall group will let him go until he is told there is no money to do these very good ideas.

Posted by: Insider | August 10, 2008 9:18 PM

Fedup

Check your facts, it was mayor Rudy Giuliani, who implamented the sweeping changes to the NYPD, upon his election in 1994. And Bill Bratton who was the commishioner at that time, not Ray Kelly.

I do enjoy your pusdo intellectual know it all blogs though, you and Edward should start your own site.

Posted by: Daniel Sumrall | August 10, 2008 10:14 PM

"'I never put it past our good friends at the CCLU [Connecticut Civil Liberties Union] to object to law and order,' Rhodeen quipped."

What?!?!
How the hell is it okay for a Democrat to say this? To essentially sneer at civil liberties? Do none of you so-called Democrats have a problem with this? This isn't the statement of a Democrat, this is the kind of statement you get from a Texas Republican or a Vermont Libertarian. I mean, seriously,...and you all give me ... for being a Green. Jesus

Posted by: Deuce | August 11, 2008 11:58 AM

Anyone who has to pay for sex deserves their name in the paper.

Posted by: Steve Ross | August 11, 2008 1:45 PM

Public humiliation seems to me barbaric, especially for this type of crime. What's next, shaving prostitutes' heads and parading them around town? Hanging signs from Johns' necks?

If the reason for this tactic is for its deterrent effects, how can its efficacy be measured? Has anyone seen stats on this?

Posted by: Hooligan | August 11, 2008 2:25 PM

Steve

I can guess you don't live in Fair Haven, because if you did you wouldn't care very much of the public humiliation that faced these johns. I bet you never had to look out your window and see prostitutes flagging cars down in front of your home, or hoping your kids didn't see the johns getting serviced in there cars while your kids walked to the bus stop.

Hey and how about the John's wives, bet they care if hubby is really at work or getting that milk he says he was going to get, instead of carrying home some STD, that could kill them. Save your liberal garbage for your next fund raiser for the CCLU, because they need money defending child molesters like NAMBLA. Sleep well from your house on the hill Steve.

Posted by: Edward_H | August 11, 2008 3:02 PM

Insider

I do enjoy your pusdo intellectual know it all blogs though, you and Edward should start your own site.

Thanks for the advice but I prefer to blog here at the NHI. I love reading the posts of real intellectuals like yourself. I find games of factual oneupsmanship amusing. Can you explain to a simpleton like me how Fedup getting the commissioners name wrong discredits his statement.? You do deserve a pat on the back for getting the name of the commissioner correct. You win I guess. Hooray for The Insider!!

Posted by: cedarhillresident | August 11, 2008 3:08 PM

Steve Ross
I understand you and Daniels comments, but desperate times call for desperate measures. As a person that lives in an area with this kind of activity.When mothers have to go out and make sure their are no condoms at the bus stop in the am before the kids get to it, I see this as a good thing. The community's that have this kind of activity in a very heavy mode are totally loving this chief for it. And also remember this kind of low level crime in a community makes that area a magnet for even worse criminal activity. Stat's on this will defiantly be just a matter of asking people who live in these community's if it is being implemented and if it is lowering other kinds of activity.

Posted by: Steve Ross | August 11, 2008 4:33 PM

Hooligan,

Boy, you're feisty! My 'liberal garbage' is my opinion, and like you and everyone else commenting on this article, I have every right to express it. Further, the very question I'm asking is if by publishing names in the paper (again, are these convicted criminals or arrests being reported?) will there indeed be a deterrent effect among the type of people who seek out prostitutes? Is this really how the psychology would work here? If there is actual empirical data (sorry cedarhill), then I could see the benefit of doing this, as disturbing as I find it.

Just point me in the direction of the latest study.

Note: One that I have seen shows a correlation between arrests and recidivism of those johns arrested (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1762352), but there is no mention of how shame tactics have bolstered these numbers, nor how it deters non-arrested offenders.

Posted by: fedupwithliberals | August 11, 2008 9:48 PM

Insider

Thank yu fore correkting my misteak! Stupit pusdo intelleksual that I am. Don't whant to implamacate ther wruong commishsioner.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | August 11, 2008 10:36 PM

It's ok steve :)

Here is a half hour audio of review of it
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5064700

Posted by: Fonseca | August 12, 2008 11:16 AM

Wish I never "googled" NAMBLA.

Posted by: Insider | August 12, 2008 11:52 AM

Fedup

Boy you don't like being wrong or corrected on anything huh, aren't we a little grouchy. Here is the fact you left out on your solving the crime issues.

The NYPD has over 30,000 members ( a small army ), New Haven has been understaffed since the late 90's.

How would some laymen ( I'm assuming you are, by your know it all blog ), have prevented that kid from crashing when he refused to stop for the police on several occasions?

Your idiotic comment is offensive but what can you expect from know nothnings like yourself. The childs death rest on his parents case closed, his father knew he was riding recklessly through the streets, he admitted it, and did nothing about it. It is not the police responsiblity to be social workers parents should parent.

and lastly the reason I corrected you was because like know it alls like you and Steve, you take an obscure study from a Harvard grad in the 70's, ( read it before you comment ), and you profess it be the cure all for crime, when it is not.

The best form of crime prevention is community involvement not blaming cops for solving all the woes . There needs to be a union, besides if you read the study it was conducted in Newark, NJ, if you knew the area as I do, you would not comment.

Posted by: Insider | August 12, 2008 11:58 AM

Fedup & Steve Ross

Please forgive me if I come across disrespectful, my wife pointed out that I was a bit harsh, it is not me intent.

I do enjoy different opinions, and views. Again sorry I sent it before reading it, my bad guy's.

Posted by: Steve Ross | August 12, 2008 1:32 PM

Insider,

Apology accepted, although I'm uncertain why you were annoyed with me in the first place. The study I linked was conducted from 1970-2000 and submitted for review in 2006. I should reiterate that I linked it specifically because it has to do with the topic and because it makes no mention of how or if shame tactics played any part of it. I'd like to see empirical data on this latter point.

More importantly, I claim no knowledge "of it all," hence my asking for this data. While I have an instinctual, gut reaction to the issue (public humiliation is wrong), I acknowledge that this is an uninformed opinion. Hooligan and Cedarhill (perhaps yourself?) see this every day and have experiential wisdom concerning it -- and despite my disagreement with them (though I've yet had the opportunity to check out your link, Cedarhill), I can see where they are coming from. Still, I remain unconvinced that publishing johns' names in the newspaper will be efficacious.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | August 12, 2008 6:31 PM

Fonseca scary. Most people think of prostitutes as crack addicts how many of our teen boys and girls are out on the street tonight? And a John is picking thme up right now...asking "how old are you"? and letting them in the car with $20.00 in hand!

Posted by: fedupwithliberals | August 12, 2008 6:36 PM

Insider

I don't know why some people have to make things more complicated than what it is. NY had the same number of cops pre Giulliani. The problem was that Dinkins was completely incompetant and tolerant of the sociopathic population. That's why the place was an urban jungle of epic proportions. Do you not remember that?

When Giulliani was elected, he set new policy and unleashed Bratton. Results speak for themselves, even to this day. That's quality of life. That's Republican rule!

As far as the local dirtbike issue is concerned, same philosophy of dealing with antisocial behavior would have corrected the situation way before the neighborhood became post apocalyptic. How do you stop the youth from fleeing from police when they order him to stop? Easy! Rescind the idiotic "no chase" policy and show people that you mean business. Right now, the perps can moon the cops as they flee the scene because they know they can't chase. What is so hard to understand about that? Do you expect the criminal to sudenly have a change of heart and stop in his tracks because it is the right thing to do? Even under those restrictive conditions, the police could have made it a priority to coordinate a team, block the street and put spike strips on the road, and the kid would be alive today so that he could mug someone tomorrow. You can't outrun a radio!

Don't think for one second that I hold the, for lack of a better term, parents, blameless. But the police are there to protect us and to protect minors from themselves when the parents f@*k up. The current culture makes that impossible.

I'm not wrong! People who keep on perpetuating clearly failed liberal solutions to the problem are the ones that need to be called out! As I've said in previous blogs, show me one major city in the US that has responded to "progressive" solutions. You can't, because there are none.

And finally, you have to get a sense of humor.