New Haven Independent

Posted by: Anonyme | September 25, 2008 9:09 AM

Here we go again.

Now kids, don't go out and shoot each other, sell/use drugs or rob people. You might get a ticket and a ride home.

A ticket that will no doubt have to be paid by parents who cant afford it.

Maybe if the penalty jumped right to community service but then I'm sure the more "hard" offenders would just skip that and get their lifestyle justifying juvie time in.

You cant deter when the punishment is viewed as a positive thing by the offender.

You could force them to dress well and speak properly and stand up straight. That might deter them.

Posted by: Streever | September 25, 2008 9:21 AM

Unfortunately, drug addicts & prostitutes DO make it us against them.

Talk to Lee, of Chatham square, in Fair Haven. The locals embarassed away the prostitutes there, and it definitely had a hugely beneficial impact on their neighborhood.

It's a bit too liberal to say we need to hang out with drug addicts/prostitutes/etc. I have met people in these situations, and feel badly for them, but for whatever reason at the end of the day they are destroying our neighborhoods.

Kudos to Chief Lewis for taking on a surprisingly unpopular job in removing them.

Posted by: kris | September 25, 2008 10:15 AM

How about the parents making a curfew for their own kids instead of the city doing it?Again its all the fault of the city and they have to fix the problem.Parents,its your problem to fix your kids!

Posted by: joey | September 25, 2008 1:08 PM

Oh great i feel do safe knowing that people will now be pulled over for there tail light being out. that will definitly stop all the shooting and robberies! why didnt anyone think of this earlier?

Posted by: anon | September 25, 2008 1:50 PM

"His officers must always have cause, such as a broken headlight, to stop a motorist, he said."

How about something like speeding? People, even police, taxis and bus drivers, regularly drive at 50 mph through our neighborhoods. This kills people and kills quality of life. Maybe kids would be more civil if they didn't witness this kind of behavior every day, not to mention the constant noise, pollution, death and property destruction that goes with it.

Maybe they'd be more likely to walk to a community meeting, volunteer job, or gym if they could more easily bike or walk there without risking getting run over at literally every intersection. I sure would.

Posted by: Sarah28 | September 25, 2008 2:37 PM

This is another amazing display of the subterfuges that the irresponsible constituents among us will go thru to evade responsibility.

"Moms dealing with urban violence", please TRY THIS :

1. YOU set up your very own curfew with your child (children) and family.
2. YOU emphasize that there will be enforcement by the NHPD after a 30 minutes grace period.
3. If you child does not check-in, YOU call NHPD, YOU report him / her missing and YOU ask them to find him. YOU cooperate with the system fully.
4. When they do OR after he /she turns in, and YOU turn him over to the NHPD, (because YOU will, right?), YOU let them process your delinquent: (warning the first time, arrest the second, time, etc...) After that YOU let the court system take its course; After all there is that country club aka jail aka school for delinquents in Chester that we're already paying for.

Unfortunately, these "Moms dealing with urban violence",
will not want to try the above!

WHY? The reason, (very often), there is no one home, to bring the kids to, (after being caught in a curfew), is that these very same parents are out doing their own things, in some instance just as illegal as what their kids are doing, The apple does fall far from the tree, in those instances.

Yet, now they want a curfew so that they can get even more freedom to do what they do best: i.e.: "whatever ... under the sun - or more likely the night's sky - but properly raising their offsprings

Moreover, for the sake of political correctness WE are, (almost), buying it! WE, the majority of taxpayers in this town, do have our own curfews within our famillies and WE enforce those rules.

That is our first line of defense and it should be so, for everybody! All and each one of us. Every familly its own curfew rules.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | September 25, 2008 3:48 PM

ok I am going to throw my two cents in on this. Last time this was brought up I was for it. And when seeing the success that it is having in Hartford with the very same crimes we have here. I am still kind of for it. If parents do not want to pay the fines thier is an easy fix they give out warnings the first few times..so straighten your kid out!

But... I remember one poster (pink bike) it changed my mind to a point. ...many of these kids are on the street that late because it is safer than going to their homes. I am sure that by the behavior of the kids out on the street late this statement may be very much true.

So I would like a curfew but this comment makes me very hesitant on it.

Posted by: Cheryl | September 25, 2008 7:45 PM

This is a response to the comment made by Sarah28.
Before you start criticizing mothers who are coming together trying to make a difference for not only themselves but the entire community, stop generalizing people and check out your facts! I am a mother who has worked hard to raise my children and grand children. As Afro-Americans, they have turned out quite well. Unfortunately, many of ALL races and cultures have not (perhaps as you say)" followed your list of rules" That is why there is a problem with crime and violence in our city. I believe that it does take a village to raise a child. Thank goodness that there are people including these moms who are willing to take the time to find solutions to the problem. A curfew may or may not work but lets try to find some workable solutions and stop being racial and critical. By the way...my children are not ones who hang out in the street and commit crimes or violence. I could just... as you do stay home while patting yourself on the back, criticizing those who make a difference in our communities.

Posted by: JackNH | September 25, 2008 7:57 PM

Good grief. Fair should go back to West Haven, where she's so happy, and lecture the chief of police there. Those of us who live in New Haven SUPPORT CHIEF LEWIS.

Posted by: FacChek | September 25, 2008 8:50 PM

No problem here.. the Board of Aldermen already has an ordinance which to work with and improve.

Problem is.. you guessed it, no current enforcement.

Sec. 18-16. Same--By children at night.
(a) Prohibited. No children under the age of fourteen (14) years shall be allowed to loiter upon any street, alley or public place within the corporate limits of the city between the hours of eight o'clock (8:00) p.m. and three o'clock (3:00) a.m., unless accompanied by his parent or guardian.
(b) Responsibility of parent, guardian. No parent or guardian having the care, custody or control of any such child shall permit said child to loiter in violation of subsection (a) hereof.
(c) Penalty. Every parent or guardian who shall allow any child to loiter in violation of subsection (a) shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be punished by a fine of not more than fifty dollars ($50.00) for each violation.
(Code 1928, §§ 533, 534)

Rather than pass new legislation which risk civil rights violations, the BOA should put enforcement teeth in this current ordinance.

Get busy Goldfied!

Posted by: V | September 26, 2008 7:05 AM

Sounds like an occupation?
It feels like an occupation here in New Haven. The city is occupied by criminals and criminals-in-training who have no fear of the criminal justice system because it has been neutered by allegations of racism and profiling like this. Stop supporting and sympathizing with the criminal element and start supporting efforts to make our city safer. Or just stay in West Haven.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | September 26, 2008 8:59 AM

Wow Faccheck good one. Impressed as always with your post

Posted by: Sarah28 | September 26, 2008 1:10 PM

CHERYL,
I am criticizing those, (mothers, etc...), who ARE NOT telling us that they do indeed have a home-made-curfew and, when there is a violation, they do what they should do to get help enforcing said home-made-curfew.

Instead, their first line of recourse is to ask for a citywide curfew. That is suspicious and I do not find nobility behind their intentions in that context. I also stated that such is the case in "some instances" without generalizing.

In addition, those are not my "... list of rules..." They are called City Ordinances; Sec. 18-16 specifically. They are to be followed by people of "... all races & cultures ..." That is why I am going to ignore your "...many of ALL races and cultures have not ..." and "... stop being racial ..." litany. It is irrelevant to the issue or for that matter, my critique.

But here is some positive aspect, thanks to you:
Bravo Cheryl! since YOU are "... a mother who has worked hard to raise [...] children and grand children [and ... as] Afro-Americans, [relevance???] ... they have turned out quite well", why don't you tell us how you did it?

1. Did you enforce your own home-made-curfew? or
2. Which Chief of Police established a citywide curfew for you? During what years?

Please enlighten us on what it is that did work for you. We are all eager to find out.

FACCHEK,
Thanks for "Sec. 18-16. Same--By children at night" refresher for all us

Posted by: Cheryl | September 26, 2008 2:54 PM

Sarah28,
I felt that I needed to address your comments because they did come off as generalizing and offensive against the Meeting of the Moms group.

You said:
(Moms dealing with urban violence", please TRY THIS :...

Unfortunately, these "Moms dealing with urban violence",
will not want to try the above!
WHY? The reason, (very often), there is no one home, to bring the kids to, (after being caught in a curfew), is that these very same parents are out doing their own things, in some instance just as illegal as what their kids are doing, The apple does fall far from the tree, in those instances.
Yet, now they want a curfew so that they can get even more freedom to do what they do best: i.e.: "whatever ... under the sun - or more likely the night's sky - but properly raising their offsprings)

Sarah,
It certainly is not THESE Moms dealing with urban violence that your attacks should be against. These are mothers from all walks of life, who work hard to raise their children in an orderly manner. Some of these mothers are victims of crime or have children who have been victims of crime. Some may not have even been personally been affected by criminal acts but realize that there is a need to find solutions that would help ALL of the youth in our community. So, they come together, brainstorm, find solutions and take initiative to promote change.

I personally don't count myself "mother of the year". Raising children is challenging for all, especially in this day in time. This is not the time to point fingers as to who is at fault for the way our children are these days, but find ways to manage this crisis that we are dealing with. Aside from the fact that there are many parents who may not be concerned about their children, there are some who are not home because they have to work to support their families and need help with their children.

There are only few who have time these days to facilitate after school or evening programs for youth. There is also lack of funding for these programs.

One of the most affective thing that I had to do as a single parent was to "ask for help". Find ways to communicate. Make time, including them in daily schedules. Talk with them while taking them to and from school instead of being on a cell phone call or being preoccupied with thoughts of work. What happened to the family dinner table? Maybe at least one day per week as apposed to seven?

Our children need positive role models, people whom they can lead by example. Crisis will not go away but doing our best as parents to manage crisis as well as correct our mistakes effectively before our children is important. Our children hear what we do more than what we say to them. Home does come first, community is important as well. Let's be leaders by example.

Posted by: Sarah28 | September 26, 2008 4:59 PM

CHERYL,
I commend and respect you for "... the most effective thing[s] that [you] had to do as a single parent ..." in order to pull thru. What struck me the most is your statement that: "Home does come first"!

I hope that all the things that you have listed strike a chord and resonate with those who are looking at NHPD for a citywide curfew ans "THE" solution.

Thank you for sharing.

Posted by: Edward_H | September 26, 2008 7:41 PM

Faccek

Rather than pass new legislation which risk civil rights violations, the BOA should put enforcement teeth in this current ordinance.

Creating new laws helps them keep their names in the news. AS well as being able to tell their constituents during election time they proposed or helped craft x number of new laws, for the children.

Posted by: Dawn | September 28, 2008 7:22 AM

Look, I am all for making parents responsible grown ups but obviously it is NOT working. In my neighborhood on any given night there are anywhere from 10-30 young people hanging around here on the corner. They run repeatedly behind a house owned and operated by Apple Mngmnt. and get high, sell drugs and hide from oncoming cars. I for one will not go into Leon's Market because of the commotion. Landlords like Apple and MLC Prop. are not going to be responsible property owners unless made to be!
The other night I was up at 3:00 a.m. and 6 of these young adults were skulking around, running through the neighborhood yards etc.
Look at the Hartford stats. If the killing goes down, if the burglary goes down, if the quality of life for every resident tax payer goes up, then WE NEED A CURFEW!!!!

Posted by: cedarhillresident | September 28, 2008 11:04 AM

Dawn I to am kind of for it but what age should it go up to. Will 16 really stop the problem? in my area it is 18 and up most of the time. As far as apple , Levitin and other slum lords are concerned their is a law on the books in New Haven that we tried to get implemented but had no success. It worked in Berkeley CA. And a while ago one community in New Haven did set it up and use it. The law is still their. The problem is our law is for the government to implement not the citizens. This law should be changed to be like the one in Berkeley CA. It is the Nuisance law. As I see more and more of these non residential landlords buy up house the more I see a need for this law to be used! This would help with your community's problem as well! Much more than a curfew would.

Summery in the blue square.
http://books.google.com/books?id=yYviqGIoOBgC&pg=PA242&lpg=PA242&dq=Nuisance+law+berkeley+landlords&source=web&ots=B3K2ATg1Z6&sig=0mOszkqfaWr8iy7gviXMe1QrFIk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result

Posted by: cedarhillresident | September 28, 2008 11:15 AM

ps I would write the chief to see if he can help get this going he has experience with this law.
jmlewis@newhavenct.net