New Haven Independent

Posted by: Chris | October 3, 2008 11:24 AM

"At issue is a plan to build a 400-foot safety zone, using land pictured, at the end of the main 5,200-foot runway at Tweed, a plan mandated by the Federal Aviation Administration..."

Hmmm if the FAA is saying the the runway should be expanded for safety reasons then maybe we should... I don't know... listen!

Enough with the East Haven whining on this, expand the airport and help local businesses and residents.

Posted by: Gary Doyens | October 3, 2008 12:30 PM

Jets already take off and land there full, not partially full. By February 2009, the industry will eliminate 30 - 40% of its domestic flights in the U.S. Flights are being elminated at larger regional hubs like Bradley, which has lost more than a 250,000 passengers because of it. Where is the evidence that spending this money is going to bring in another airline? Is there a letter of intent? Has U.S. Air said they'd add flights to Indianapolis if this is done? Does the airport hold one scrap of comittment from anybody or is this just another pie in the sky, half baked scheme?

New Haven taxpayers are asked annually for a dependency payment, are on the hook as usual under DeStefano for tens of millions of dollars in off balance sheet debt. We have seen this song and dance before on the airport - borrow more money, give us another big check, extend the runway, do this do that and it will bring us all a lot more passengers. It's just not true.

If Volchek thinks its such a good idea, let him use some of his company's money to support it.

DeStefano wonders why Easthaven doesn't support Tweed runway expansion etc? It's because DeStefano has, just like this press conference, demonized those with whom he disagrees. He doesn't cooperate with others; he whines too much and has a striking inability to lead. Leadership is tied to integrity - Easthaven just doesn't believe him. It's that simple. If New Haven had a new mayor who was authentic, honest and not bombastic - Easthaven's attitude would likely change. It's time for a change in New Haven.

Posted by: Joel | October 3, 2008 1:54 PM

Chris,

I agree, you could say the same about residential fire codes. They are there for a reason, to keep people safe. If that is the intention, then there should be no argument.

On the other side of the fence though, I live in Branford near the edge of east haven. Generally it is a very quite neighborhood and its very distracting when i hear jets fly overhead. With that said:

"Airport Authority Chairman Mark Volchek said the city's growth depends on having a thriving airport."

I would hate to literally hear any more planes flying in and out of that airport. I am not saying this will happen, but it certainly is not out of the question for debate.

Posted by: Smoke Screen | October 3, 2008 2:10 PM

What is going on here. When did Mayor Almon give this testimony. I think DeStefano is using the NHI as a political tool here.

Construction of the improvements began in May 2008. The contractors office and yard is at the end of Uriah Street. Why dont you come and see, reporter Honeyman. All of the approvals must have been given before that date. I expect if this is checked out properly you will find Almon's testimony pre-dates this.

So why is this an issue now. Looks like DeStefano has another 2 million to find to balance his budget. It looks like another 90 city jobs are going to go. As usual, he needs someone to blame.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | October 3, 2008 2:17 PM

Gary, Well said as always!!!! Even at the budget hearing reps from the airport admitted if the added fights they would still not come out ahead. If that is the case why expand??

Posted by: Tweedsupporter | October 3, 2008 2:44 PM

Flights will absolutely come if the runway is extended or the safery zone is put in. United from 1990-1994 has heavy loads but had to retreat because residents would not cut their trees. Too many flights were weight restricted and they lost money.
Tweed has potential, but unfortunately, the missed the boat in 1978 when airlines were deregulated. Then mayor DeLieto wouldn't let United Airlines land here with flights to Chicago.He waited til after election day to forbid them to fly here. More progressive cities like Burlington Vt and Manchester NH welcomed United with open arms and look whet great facilities that they have today.

Eastern Airlines flew here in the 70's with 727 service to Washington DC continuing on to Miami.

East Haven has to quit being so stubborn and realize that the airport was there before them.

The State needs to support the airport which they have never done. The politicians have done nothing to help the airport. They are all in favor of the airport but afraid of the Wast Haven vote.

If TWEED expands they would have as many flights (about 30)as they did in the 80's except they would be on quiet regional jets to such hubs as Clevland on Continental ,Chicago on American or UNited, Atlanta on Delta, Detroit on Delta (Northwest) and hopefully non stop service to Orlando and Ft Lauderdale on Jet Blue or Air Tran

Airports are economic engines and we all need to support Tweed. Airlines will come.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | October 3, 2008 3:23 PM

Tweedsupporter

But as Gary stated, show us one letter of intent! No effort was made to really push untill they discovered the well was running dry. They said they spoke with 8 different airlines (at the time of the budget) and not one was interested. Soooo if we are going to do this at least show thier is an interest by airlines.

Posted by: leo | October 3, 2008 3:32 PM

By the way is Mr Volcheck that got special treatment on the deferral program cover in another New Haven paper? If so it woukd be nice to see the Independent provide some coverage to help clear up whether that program was used to distribute favors to supporters.

Posted by: Gary Doyens | October 3, 2008 6:28 PM

Leo: Yes, that's the same person.
Tweed Supporter: Your facts relative to Tweed are more than ten years old. I am not aware of any move, anywhere in the country where airports are expanding the number of their flights. Quite the opposite is true. The idea that Tweed is an economic engine for New Haven or the region when it hasn't been one in more than a 15 years seems to me to either be a pipedream or the desperate attempt by New Haven City Hall to hang on to its PILOT payment while not paying back the bonds the mayor engineered. This is a failure of leadership.

Posted by: Tweedsupporter | October 3, 2008 7:16 PM

Cederhill

They will come. Too long the airport was mismanaged and finally we have a chairman that has the business community in mind and will solicit airlines along with Yale University

The City of New Haven should not be responsible for the airport.

If the State took this over the airport would thrive. Let an authority run this and not the DOT as they are ruining Bradley...

New Haven has the business community to support Tweed.

Posted by: Alan Felder | October 5, 2008 8:11 AM

The residents of the City of New Haven should send the Mayor and his staff, and don't forget about the "do nothing for the people Board of Alderman", on a one way flight to nowhere. We tax payer's are getting a bridge to nowhere.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | October 5, 2008 9:23 AM

Tweedsupporter

I want to rephrase the last comment you made///

New Haven has the business community to support Tweed and they should be paying for it, not the residents!

Posted by: tweedsupporter | October 5, 2008 10:42 AM

Cedarhill

I don't believe that the residents of New Haven should pay for the upkeep of TWEED just like I don't think the city of new haven should line the pockets of the out of state owners of the Pilot Pen Tennis Tournament.

The State should take over the airport but because of East Haven this has become a political football, with the politicans afraid to get involved. It has cost New Haven dearly in lost business because of no airport. It is hard for the hotels to attract conventions and conventions certainly stimulate the economy.

Do the East Haven airport neighbors realize how much their property values will grow with a first class airport serving major hubs?

Posted by: Steve Ross | October 5, 2008 10:57 AM

A year back it was well reported in the media that AIR FORCE ONE had visited Tweed New Have earlier in the day. President Bush had made an unannounced visit to Hartford. AIR FORCE ONE is a Jumbo Jet, and a very large and heavy plane in civilian use. In military use it must be armor plated and much heavier.

Any statemet that Tweed New Haven urgently needs extended runways for safety reasons must be false. If its good for the President to land in large and heavy plane it must be good for the rest of us.

It looks like DeStefano is extending the runways by stealth for political friends. Mayor April Capone Almon is looking after the interests of both East Haven citizens and New Have citizens in Morris Cove. May she do her best and not be intimidated.

If after the battle the majority want a larger busier and more noisy airport then democracy has been served. At the moment it is not.

The Register, The Advocate, NHI and WTNH are failing us all in not fully investigating and reporting what is going on.

Any chance that the New York Times sends someone here to dig up the truth.

Posted by: tweedsupporter | October 5, 2008 10:58 AM

Gary in respect to your comments that airlines aren't expanding or adding new routes, this might be true but not in the case of New Haven. Tweed is the most underutilzed airport in the Country with unbelieve potential. All of the airlines know this but the politics here and also the size of the runway limit what can be done.

If we had done something after deregulation in 1978, New Haven and the airport would be thriving. Look at Manchester New Hampshire and Burlington Vermont.

United took another chance in 1990 but no one supported them opertationally and when the airport wouldn't cut the trees, hampering landiings, they left. One winter they had to cancel several flights due to the unprofessional way in which snow removal was handled at TWEED, so they said

Tweed, operated correctly, would gain customers from a 100 mile radius which would include affulent Fairfielf County. We need at least 4 airlines to make this work and like I said if we expand the safety zone, they will come. Because of traffice no one in Connecticut likes to use LGA and Hartford is too far for most of us.

The State needs to buy Tweed and run Bradley and TWEED by a separate airport authority, not the DOT.

Posted by: frequent flyer | October 5, 2008 6:50 PM

It takes me 45 to 50 minutes to drive to Tweed from Westville. The Q bridge is a big delay. It takes another 60 to 90 minutes to get to Philly on the commuter jet. So it's about 2 hours to an airport with good domestic service and some international flights. It takes the same time to drive to the station and take the train to Newark. Its an international hub with planes everywhere every few minutes. Newark is really New Havens Airport already. Using the Wilbur Cross I can get to Bradley in an hour, only ten minutes more than Tweed. With so many more flights there Tweed is just an inconvenient anachronism. Q bridge construction going on for another 10 years Tweed will be even more isolated. If Tweedsupporter thinks people will come from Fairfield county he must be mad. It only takes them an hour to get to Newark. Also Tweedsupporter conveniently forgets JFK. If this is typical of the justification for keeping Tweed open it should be closed down tomorrow and save us tax payers a buck or two.

Posted by: John Karavas | October 6, 2008 9:04 AM

I have lived close to the airport for the last 26 years and the theories of how Tweed can be successful has been debated for that long. As I understand it the runway at Tweed is substantially longer than most in the state, so extending it further just means someone wants larger aircraft to use the site. Larger aircraft will certainly mean extended flight/noise paths for all towns in the area. I find it hard that those not visited by aircraft landing and taking off, want the sights and noise in their area.

With this age of high priced energy, I think that a study of the effects of turning the site into a wind and solar energy farm is more practical than it current use. At least the surrounding communities may get a real benefit from the land use, rather than a tax dollar drain.

Posted by: JCP | October 6, 2008 11:24 AM

Gary makes several good points and TweedSupporter seems to forget recent history. Didn't we have Delta at Tweed within the last two years? They had regional service to a hub and it didn't work for them, why would it work for a different airline?

Airlines have been cutting domestic service for a couple of years in favor of higher yielding international flights. I can get to Bradley in less than an hour from New Haven, which is not that bad.

I would love additional flights from Tweed but it is not going to happen. The airline industry is in deep trouble and the trouble will likely be perpetual.

Posted by: jay | October 6, 2008 12:29 PM

JCP - Delta and the other commercial airlines pulled out because the runways are not long enough - (by federal aviation standards) to accommodate their planes, that's why you do not seem them there right now.

Posted by: TWEEDSUPPORTER | October 6, 2008 12:48 PM

We did have DELTA (COMAIR) however due to the short runway,on certain days due to wind conditions they couldn't operate a full load causing them to take off passengers and refund money. When the runway safety zone is completed airlines will be able to leave TWEED with full loads of passengers and with their tanks full of fuel so they can reach ATLANTA, CHICAGO, Detroit, Washington DC and other hub cities.

Both United and Comair left because of the sub standard runway and most likely would return given incentives from the State, Yale or the business community.

Jet Blue with their new EMB aircraft with 100 seats would jump at the chance to service TWEED with non stop service to Florida. This would benefit the entire New Haven Region. Mayor Capone can't be so short sided and vote against regional growth.

There are so many ATC delays at the NY airports that Connecticut residents would flock to TWEED given the 3 or 4 airlines that would fly here.

Mayor DeStefano deserves credit for helping build TWEED into the Regional Airport that it can be

Posted by: nutmeg | October 6, 2008 2:53 PM

steve- any plane the president rides on is air force 1. so if georgy flew into tweed, it was not the 747 but it was still air force 1. there's no conspiracy theory to hide the facts about tweed; the runway is too short.

jcp- united did a good business out of tweed in the 1990s but the short runway and obstructions meant that they couldn't fully fuel planes into or out of tweed, which has obvious safety implications.

I don't know what it is that gives everyone in CT such a myopic worldview. for some reason, there's this belief that new haven needs to shut down its airport while cities all over the world improve theirs.

as for those people who believe we can just all drive 50 or 75 miles to bradley or new york, then take a look at the lehigh valley, which has a comparable MSA population to new haven. lehigh valley manages to have decent air service to major hubs and florida (and canada) despite being 75+ miles from two large hubs, phila. and newark.

Posted by: JCP | October 6, 2008 4:34 PM

I wouldn't deny that there is some short-sightedness in New Haven, but we have been burned before. Think of the urban renewal led by Mayor Lee. Now all of those changes are being riduculed and unwound. What about the recent building program for the New Haven public schools? Millions spent and now look at the budget.

I thought the lengthening of the runway was to install the safety areas. Are those areas usable parts of the runway?

Delta stopped flying out of New Haven just after it declared bankruptcy. My guess is that the airlines would be here already if the profit was here. United was here for four years--that's a long time if there were so many safety concerns.

Posted by: Josh Smith | October 6, 2008 10:55 PM

Tweed should most definitely be expanded. It costs like $600 roundtrip to go anywhere from Tweed right now (anywhere except Philadelphia, that is). I want to go see friends cross-country, but I can't, because it's extremely cost-prohibitive. With $200-$300 roundtrip flights from carriers like Southwest, I might be more apt to take a trip I wouldn't otherwise take. With a larger runway, and more companies with more flights, prices would be driven down, as US Airways would then have to compete with other carriers, and we would get direct flights to more big cities.

East Haven's property values would go way up with service to Chicago, Atlanta, Baltimore, etc. in their backyards. When was the last time you saved a tank of gas and saved on parking by walking, biking, or taking the city bus to the airport? That would be a great benefit. Where's the negative here? Increased noise? Okay, I'll give you that, but folks still choose to live in Windsor Locks up next to Bradley, don't they? And why did these people choose to live next to an airport if they wanted peace and quiet, anyway?

East Haven -- please don't hold your neighboring city back from expansion and increased tax revenue. We need it really badly right now, so some big airlines operating in the Elm City would help quite a bit. More flights, more jobs, more revenue for New Haven, higher property values in East Haven, and less of a drive (or no drive at all) and cheaper prices on flights for all of southern CT. We had that down in Bridgeport/Stratford at Igor Sikorsky Airport for a while, but now that's all gone, and an airport sits dormant there now. Don't waste the airport like they did, and don't waste this chance to get world-class service right at home.

Posted by: Baffeled by BS | October 6, 2008 11:22 PM

Anyone who lives near the airport should go to the FAA web site. The Runway Length Requirements for Airport Design Circular AC150/5325-4B is 42 pages long and too difficult for me to understand. One thing I did understand was the worked example it gives for a Boeing 737. This is an average size jet used for domestic flights. I've used them so am I know the name. It needs 6000 feet to land and 9000 feet to take off. This shows how long the runway must be for regular commercial service from Jet Blue or Delta or whoever to be profitable.

This story says the runways are now 5200ft long and will be extended 400ft. Is this correct. Surely it must be 4000ft. Looking at a map several hundred houses must be demolished in East Haven. Is this correct.

Big jets have used Tweed off and on for years. How safe have we residents been.

Tweed supporter tells us how successful other towns have been. Are these fare comparisons. I dont know where Lehigh is. Can we get facts and figures for similar CT airports. There is one in Stratford. Brainerd is in downtown Hartford. Do Waterbury and New London have airports. Do they have service to Canada and Florida. If they do cant we use their airports.

Posted by: JOHN | October 8, 2008 5:56 PM

Okay, a subject I want to chime in on... I used Tweed when United was here and it was convient to be able to fly out from my backyard!!
If Tweed's prices were more attractive I would not hesitate to use the airport. I presently go to Westchester Airport rather than Bradley or NY. It is closer and cheaper. I have a flight in 2wks on Jet Blue to Ft Lauderdale-208RT. It would be great to see Jet Blue at Tweed!!!! I think extending the runway would help achieve this.
For people who live near the airport,I am baffled. How can you move next to an airport, in a city that ..posssibly might grow over the years and not expect the airport NOT to grow with it???????????? I am thinking Tweed would be in better shape if it's neighbors used common sense years ago and let Tweed do it's improvements without opposition. (example-tree cutting)

Quick Final Comment.. whomever said it takes them 45-50 min to drive from westville to tweed???? I wouldn't have posted that ..are you driving 5 miles hr??

Posted by: Steve | October 8, 2008 11:33 PM

We just did a RT New Haven to Denver trip for $290 total for everything -of course changing in Philly (in September). The person who said $600 that may have been in the past. Now USAirways has their competitive fares publicity that the New Haven fares compare with Bradley or NY. It's on Tweed's website. Of course we want more flights and airlines there- but the current fares do compare if you are ok with no non-stops.

Posted by: Tom | October 10, 2008 2:24 PM

I like to add a few things to this commentary.
First off, the runway is really 5600ft, and was printed wrong when said "5200" . Second, Delta when here with its CRJ service was not doing bad here at all, it was a very profitable route. But some obstacles stood in its way-Trees and weight restrictions due to the runway length. This service brought more passengers and brought fares down. But the main reason they moved out was because of Deltas financial problems which they cut cities that would put them more at burden. Tweed was here before residents were. The residents who have complained should realize they moved near the airport and should be apt to any change it may bring-including air service. The airport even if expanded will never bring a LaGuardia or Bradley. But it should have 3-5 airlines with options such as Atlanta, Chicago , DC, Charlotte and Orlando. Also, any land owned by Tweed-THEY SHOULD DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH IT. It makes me very angry when East Haven speaks for all their residents, when this is not the case, this is a few selfish residing residents and a loathing government holding back the success. Technology has brought quiet aircraft that can utilize the runway, when the obstructions are removed ans safety zones are put down. They include the EMBRAER RJs 135, 145 and the 170/175/190, CRJ 50,70, and 76 seaters (200/700/900), the boeing 717 and 737 series...as well as the A319. These aircraft are much much quieter than the corporate jets that fly in. EAST HAVEN-shut up and focus on your nasty, speedy deathzone streets-Hemingway Ave and Main street. Any additonal air service will never mount up to the pollution and hazards these streets have brought. Offer more for your youth and teenagers, preventing their drug use ....stop complaining about an airport that will benefit everybody. Also if the safety areas werent put down, what would you complain about if there was another incident like the crash in 1971?

Posted by: Anthony L | October 29, 2008 3:56 PM

At the risk of offending every person in this thread, I offer this:
I am amazed at how a debate ensues over issues few, if any, have the technical know-how to debate! Yet everyone seems to be the expert on everything from Balanced Field Length (BFL)to knowing the preferred driving habits of thousands of commuters to knowing the foibles of the Airline Industry.

The issue,above anything else, is that New Haven has an airport within its boundries and has every right to endeavor to use it as the economic resource that it is. We are not talking about building a nuclear plant here. We're talking about using an airport, something thousands of communities have done successfully. New Haven and the region should be no different. But then we have the self appointed experts telling everyone else,in absolute terms I might add, what the deal is for all and hence the endless circle.

The issue with the runway is length COMBINED with obstructions to the departure path (to a lesser degree the approach path as well.) See 14CFR77. Simply, the modest length of the runway is further limited by trees and the absence of mandated overruns (overruns do not have obstructions by their nature). Add the overruns and clear some trees and the effective length of the 5,600 foot runway is restored thus improving the payload capability of any aircraft taking off from the runway.

As far as runway length itself goes, the very simple fact is that more runway is better in terms of what an aircraft can carry off of it (payload). Hence, the longer the runway, the less technical and operational complications that go into using it.

And if anyone thinks Tweed's topography is a limiting factor then please see Burlington VT. for example...terrain that makes New Haven look like a perfectly flat piece of land. Burlington's runway is far from being the longest around, yet they seem to do quite well with aircraft because the area in the immediate runway "zone" is obstacle free. Now what's the lesson here?

In previous times, Tweed flights suffered weight penalties (denied boardings) due the obstruction littered departure corridor. In theory, a 747 could takeoff from Tweed's main runway,then as now...just at a significantly reduced load, thus limiting economic potential from the airline standpoint. Water this issue down to a 'lowly' 737 or Regional Jet and you see the issue at hand.

The first order to improve Tweed from a potentiality standpoint is to remove obstructions and add the safety overruns. This recent development regarding approval of the overruns is a step in the right direction.