New Haven Independent

Posted by: JackNH | October 6, 2008 6:13 AM

"Speak to Us is Spanish"? Really, Paul! Please.

Posted by: Yes We Can | October 6, 2008 7:35 AM

It is truly unfortunate that a small number of folks have been hoodwinked by TOC into grasping at straws to create alleged issues and then demand alleged solutions in arbitratily created timelines in order to next allege that they have not been listened to. With the economy tightening New Haven has consistently led the way in Urban Education to meet the needs of all 20,000 kids not just 30. This is not the opinion of "30" people that have been assembled by TOC (a mostly private school educated white leadership who favors and shares funding streams with the Charters), but the opinion of State and National reviews such as the #1 ranking in Wellness Policies, the postivie Cambridge Review, the successful grant applications for fresh fruits and veggies and yes the double digit test gains across the board. Where is the Charter High School Elm City on the test scale? . . .Well they did not score well enough to make AYP.
(Their scores went down as I guess Charters do not have all the answers in the complex world of Urban Education) With the one beat test score drum no longer sounding TOC and their allies have focused on protecting this issue. The fact is that virtually everything is sent out by the District in English and Spanish at the sole cost of the District. Ms. Aponte appears to want privae translators for Spanish. Well what about Chinese, Korean, German, etc. Those kids are in the schools too should the District pay for everyone to have a translator? Why doesn't TOC and Ms. Aponte (who appears more interested in headlines than solutions and thus serves as the perfect pawn for folks like Gwen Forest and Mr. Growstein who are the ghost writing well paid "concerned parent" and the money man)focus on real issues like funding from the State for ELL (English as Second Language Learners) Education (another area by the way where New Haven leads and is the envy of the State) or modifications on the high stake tests that these kids are forced to take and when they cannot always understand the questions. The answer is because they are not interested in a solution only searching for issues to attack on. By the way why are the Cherters numbers of ELL students so low? Why doesn't Ms. Aponte of TOC ask that question. Bravo Dr. Torre (that is Torre not Torres) for showing up and intelligently and calmly meeting with these parents. I suspect if you were left alone with the actual parents that you would have resolved the issues. Alas, they will huddle with Forest and Growstein and the Community Foundation donors and write a letter falsely claiming that you did not listen. I think Dr. Torre and the Board should cease meeting with these Private School educated elitests until Ms. Forest discloses her compensation and all sources thereof. In the mean time only meet with parents and address the needs as you have, for all students in the District. We can continue with the recent successes in New Haven and We can continue to close the achievement gap, let's keep our eye on that ball and keep moving forward.

Posted by: Tim | October 6, 2008 7:49 AM

Or since you live in the US you can learn English, just a thought.

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | October 6, 2008 8:20 AM

I got a better idea. How about doing what my parents & grandparents did when they came to this country legally? LEARN ENGLISH!!

Posted by: FairHavenResToo | October 6, 2008 10:08 AM

I understand and definitely sympathize with the parents who have having these difficulties; it's next to impossible to effectively be a part of your child's schooling if you don't speak the language. However I feel that these bilingual services should be in conjunction with the parents enrolling in Junta's English courses (or another school like Gateway). Their kids are learning and speaking English; they need to as well. Both sides need to be giving something to this process.

Posted by: walt bradley | October 6, 2008 11:16 AM

Where is the urgency to learn the language (i realize there is not actual law or wrting that specifically states english as the official language, but the reality is it is the de facto language here) of a place you choose to move to if you are not expected to show some effort.
We forget that our Quebicois frineds just a few hours north almost split from canada just several years back because of language differences, which led to cultural differences within the country.
For the past few hundred years newcomers to the united states have understood that they were expected to learn the language and laws of the united states if they wanted to reap the benefits.

Posted by: MORRIS COVE MF | October 6, 2008 12:29 PM

My mother learned to speak/read/write fluent English in less than 6 months, back in 1963. Why? So she wouldn't be embarrassed! How long have these parents lived here? How are we to stress the importance of education to all children, when some of their parents can't or won't even try to learn?

When I worked for a downtown apartment complex, I was shocked to learn that many 2nd and 3rd generation Americans could not speak or read in English, and refused to learn it! Then they wondered why their children wouldn't work harder in school. They must live by example.

Instead of fighting for mandatory translation services, plead for free ESL night classes. And advertise said classes with translated flyers in all children's homework folders!

Posted by: THOUGHTFUL | October 6, 2008 1:58 PM

Where do the parents suggest the funds come from to finance these services they are demanding? It's bad enough that the schools have had to cut so many services and positions bc of the current budget crisis. I understand and sympathize with their desire to communicate effectively with the school, however i also think that parents have to take responsibility and play a more active role in learning to navigate the current system which may mean becomine more proficient in English.

Posted by: taxe2death | October 6, 2008 3:09 PM

I need to jump in and support most of these comments from my fiscal slant. Why should we all be forced to pay to have things spoken and printed in 2 (and then 3 and then 4 and then...) languages when these are people that have come to our country of their own free will. If they wish to be somewhere where Spanish is the predominant language, there are many options.

This is a symptom of one of the major shifts in the US over the past couple of generations. We used to be a melting pot where the cultures, traditions, and experiences of many cultures were blended together to form a singular and unique society. Of late, we have become a society where people of differnet backgrounds, cultures and beliefs put up walls around themselves to keep the 'others' away resulting in ever expanding in physical, financial, and emotional barriers that pull us all apart.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Maybe we could get our arms around our budget if we stopped caved to ridiculous demands such as this.

Posted by: Alphonse Credenza | October 6, 2008 3:29 PM

Immigrants should make it a priority to learn the language of this nation: English.

We Americans do the larger community a substantial disservice by accomodating ethnic, racial or religious groups these outrageous demands.

Posted by: iwasthere | October 6, 2008 6:33 PM

Tell me why is this St. lima church is so involved with making city policies. The id now asking for translators. There is so many different languages why just spanish. I suggest the church gives up their tax exempt sale tax status.
City has more problems then english to spanish translations. Crime is up. City is in the whole. When will the city see the light?

Posted by: ENOUGH | October 6, 2008 6:39 PM

I am so sick of the demands of Hispanics in New Haven wanting everything in Spanish. If you live in the United States LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH! The Puerto Rican population completely pisses me off with the "I dont speak English" routine-they are taught English in school in Puerto Rico!! I understand wanting to keep your culture-but dont come to a country and demand that WE speak YOUR language. Try going to France and demanding that they speak English-GOOD LUCK!

If you dont have the common sense to learn English THEN GET OUT OF THIS COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: alberto | October 6, 2008 10:26 PM

como puertorriqueño respeto las hopiniones de los demas no queremos cambiar y mucho menos imponer lo que queremos son que se nosden material en español para poder alludar a nuestros hijos hay gente que tienen una gran capacida mentar tangrande que todavia tienen en sus neuronas el racismo inculcando esto en nuestros hijos sean ispano o afroamericano nuestro hijos no acen ladivicion solamente los adultos que porsucapacida intelectual su grantamaño es el de la semilla de mostasa estamos en el siglo XXI cuando quitemos el pensamiento racial de nuestras mente podemos contruir una nacion mejor

Posted by: FIX THE SCHOOLS | October 7, 2008 7:51 AM

It seems to me that the spanish speaking parents are simply asking that the district communicate to them in spanish as well as english. (Not the same as insisting on bi-lingual instruction for the kids). I am sure that most if not all of the hispanic parents want their own generation to be the last generation in their family to speak only spanish. All they are asking for is communication help from the district so that they, as involved parents, can be supportive of the education of their children. Isn't this assimilation? What's more, is if the parents are successful in helping guide thier kids through the system, the children from spanish speaking homes will be fluent in two languages - a wonderful skill to navigate the job market and the world. There is nothing wrong about this.

Teach Our Children has become a force for parents. Keep growing, keep pushing. The best measure of your progress is the rising volume of the squawking coming from the defenders of the status quo ( Mayo, Torres, DeStefano). These folks and their legions of educrats have a vested interest in keeping this broken disfunctional system in tact. Otherwise, why would they argue so loudly against change?

It is sad to say, but true: The folks who preside over the education system in New Haven simply don't value the education of children higher than their own interests.

Posted by: DEZ | October 7, 2008 10:49 AM

As a resident in Fair Haven, I embrace the Latin culture in the neighborhood that I choose to live in. Unfortunately, with no 'one language' in which to communicate, basic information will be lost and that gap in education disparities will widen. However, I must say that while Spanish speaking translators would be a great thing for the school to offer, how about each person bring their own translator? I know If I attended a meeting where I knew I wouldn't be able to understand the basic language, I'd be sure to bring with me someone who could. There are many reasons why people can't or won't assimilate, language wise, into their new culture, but to assume that the culture needs to bend to their needs appears backwards to me. TOC appears to be widening its audience to include 'TOP', or 'Teach our Parents'. I do question where it will end, and at what expense?

Posted by: Translation | October 7, 2008 2:25 PM

Re: Alberto
As a Puerto Rican I respect the opinions of others. We don't want to change and much less to impose. What we want is that they give us materials in Spanish so that we can be able to help our children. There are people who have a great capacity to lie. So great that they still have racism on their minds and are teaching this to our children whether they be Hispanic or Afro-American. Our children don't create this division (or gap) only the adults who for their intellectual capacity, their great size is that of a mustard seed. We are in the 21st century, when we let go of the racial thinking in our minds we can construct a better nation.
------------------------
como puertorriqueño respeto las hopiniones de los demas no queremos cambiar y mucho menos imponer lo que queremos son que se nosden material en español para poder alludar a nuestros hijos hay gente que tienen una gran capacida mentar tangrande que todavia tienen en sus neuronas el racismo inculcando esto en nuestros hijos sean ispano o afroamericano nuestro hijos no acen ladivicion solamente los adultos que porsucapacida intelectual su grantamaño es el de la semilla de mostasa estamos en el siglo XXI cuando quitemos el pensamiento racial de nuestras mente podemos contruir una nacion major

Posted by: Dra Rosado | October 7, 2008 4:14 PM

Tolerance is the Clue

As good human being we should have tolerance with those minorities and work together providing them the tools, not only helping with their kid's eduacation, but with themself (parents) in order to have those kid in the best growing environment. REMEMBER, today's kid would be our future caregivers. Thank you.

Dr. Rosado
Clinical Psychologist

Posted by: WOW | October 7, 2008 4:26 PM

These is a heated issue for sure!

It is wonderful and important that these conversations are happening. It will take both sides willing to meet, make compromises and really really hear each other. A neutral party or facilitator may be one solution...

I urge the board of education to get specific. Set meetings/time to support these issues. Next, set goals for what is possible (together with families) and assign specific people to specific responsibilities and other people who will hold them accoutable. Finally a time line is essential for making the plan come alive.

I urge the families involved in the process to be thoughtful about how they address their concerns/fears/frustrations: 1. It is important to remember that we are all partners in this, 2. it is essential that families continue to meet and support this because it is a long long road...but change will happen with time and committment, 3. Continue to be informed and be realistic about what is possible.
It is a good sign that both sides are at the table... Let'keep everyone at the table talking!

Posted by: teachergal | October 7, 2008 5:57 PM

Why shouldn't the Celentano Principal be pro-active and think about the fact that there would be spanish speaking parents in the audience? Why shouldn't principal provide an interpreter? It would have been easy enough to do. I'm sure it was as oversight but a big one. Not all immigrants have been here long enough to learn English and should not be penalized.

Posted by: jm | October 7, 2008 7:57 PM

interesting that this group doesn't seem to advocate for other immigrant groups, specifically, Asian communities. There are many, many communities in this city which struggle with the language. Should we translate for every single one, the real work would never get done. Communities can, and should, do only so much. Personal responsibility and accountability is an essential part of this equation.

Posted by: al | October 8, 2008 8:29 AM

I am very dissapointed at such negative comments.I think its a good idea that we as a community put out the tools for parents and children, speacially when it comes to their education. and by the way this is our country as well so now I tell you learn the values of this nation wich is to help one another.

Posted by: FIX THE SCHOOLS | October 8, 2008 11:08 AM

Parents are customers. What do customers do when the service at a store, restaurant, bank, hospital, oil dealer, gas station etc. sucks? They vote with their feet. They go across the street to a better alternative.

But here in New Haven, if parents aren't happy with the lack of service from this Board of Ed. what options do they have? Unfortunately very few. Connecticut does not have a voucher law and it underfunds its charter schools. So there are no real choices for parents.

So what is left for parents to do? Well, thank goodness we still live in a democracy. Parents can and should choose to throw out the leaders who refuse to listen to them.

Posted by: Nos debe dar verguenza | October 8, 2008 12:16 PM

Muchas felicidades a este grupo de padres que están haciendo la diferencia. ¡Continúen luchando! Nos debe dar vergüenza con estos comentarios tan negativos hacia nuestra sociedad. Este país fue fundado con inmigrantes. Nuestra constitución protege nuestros derechos y vivimos en una democracia, por lo tanto tenemos derecho de reclamar unos servicios que puedan cumplir con nuestras necesidades. Necesidades humanas que todos merecemos.

Posted by: Juan Rosado | October 8, 2008 10:42 PM

Felicidades a Nilda Aponte y compania por ayudar la comunidad hispana de New Haven,CT.

Posted by: Concerned | October 9, 2008 4:59 PM

It's pitiful to see how racist this city is. First, the ID card, then the Mexican flag and now these parents that want to help their children succeed in school and are asking for translations. Give me a break! Stop attacking and start working together as a community. This is about our children and how educated they are will affect our future.