New Haven Independent

Posted by: Alphonse Credenza | October 9, 2008 12:22 PM

"Aldersperson?"

There is no such word.

"Chairperson?"

Ditto.

Where is the editor?

Posted by: Be Real | October 9, 2008 12:29 PM

A few garage burglaries and the rich and famous are in hysterics. Please. If you had 2 or 3 shootings a night you might have cause to be concerned. I bet Chief Lewis didn't have gangs of heads in the clouds Yalies or totally self centered bleeding heart Liberals to deal with in Ponoma. If you folks paid more in federal taxes some of it would trickle down to New Haven and your very trivial problems would disappear. Your cheapness and support for Bush have brought you these minor inconveniences. Suck it up or get out of town.

Posted by: jackie | October 9, 2008 12:40 PM

i wasn't able to get to the meeting, but wish i could have. westville also includes (i presume) south of whalley, around ramsdell up to fountain, etc.

did anyone bring up the spate of trouble around ramsdell? i don't like to take the B3Z at night anymore; there was that mugging on fountain a while back; there was an attempted car theft on lakeview and when the officers showed up they didn't even get out of the car at first--they drove right past one of the thieves. again, i feel like the attitude is that hey, we've got it good up here, nobody's getting shot (YET): my friend was mugged at gunpoint on whalley over the summer in broad daylight.

all of this, i think, has to be taken seriously: as one of the folks above said, it will escalate if not. it's probably how other areas of the city began to decline.

a final, philosophical point. those of us who live in westville not only contribute a great amount of taxes (it's not quid pro quo, but the law abiding taxpayers should get at least equal treatment when there are problems. not sure what it's like elsewhere in the city), but also represent a model of urban/suburban sustainable living that WORKS. public transport that is decent: a generally walkable, safe, and pleasant communities with neighbors who look out for one another. how many times do we have to have that ruined and threatened by criminal elements? take it seriously now, and fast.

Posted by: Cheri | October 9, 2008 1:04 PM

Ms. Judd: I feel your pain. I found Westville so dangerous and overlooked by cops that I got the heck out. I now pay more than I can really afford to live downtown, in an area where Yale pays to have the sidewalks cleaned, plowed in winter, and where there is some police presence to speak of. My previous Westville neighborhood was never clean, usually very noisy with dirt bikes, atv's, loud car stereo's, loud car traffic in general, loud people screaming all kinds of nonsense at all hours of the day/night!! I was harrassed when biking or walking, usually in a racist way, being called "white bi**h" when all I was doing was trying to get from point A to point B without getting hit by reckless drivers or mugged by whoever, or solicited as if I were a hooker (I'm not, btw).
I'm sorry you pay high mortgages and property taxes for what you have to deal with.

Posted by: About Time | October 9, 2008 1:32 PM

Want to extend my support to the Chief for all that he is trying to do for our City. His talk last night was sincere and his ideas were very welcoming. I and many others support him in his efforts.

Clean up our City-Chief.

Posted by: FairHavenRes | October 9, 2008 2:07 PM

Hey, we all pay taxes. It is not just Westville. My neighbors, who are renting, pay taxes through their rent. So, please dont try to set one neighborhood against another.

Posted by: New_Haven_Resident | October 9, 2008 2:39 PM

Exactly B Real, these people need to spend at least one night either in Fair Haven or other neighborhood in New Haven, where shootings happen almost every night or you have Prostitutes walking in front of your house day and night. What does the NHPD do NOTHING! I had wrote to the Mayor to the NHPD myself telling them how much we need more cops on our streets. NO RESPONSE from neither one of them. You lucky you got answers and a couple of suggestions "Natalie". How dare you say "PAY ATTENTION TO US" Everyone pays taxes, if you are a home owner in Westville, Fair Haven, anywhere in New Haven. Trust me and my taxes are not cheap just because I own in Fair Haven.

Posted by: Webblog 1 | October 9, 2008 3:05 PM

Natalie Judd worries that an increase in crime in affluent Westville could spell the demise of New Haven. "If Westville goes down, the rest of the city goes down," she said. "We write the checks."

Wrong Natalie,
While I sympathize with you perceived crime statistics in Westville, it is just not true that if Westville goes down the rest of the city will go down. Or your statement that, ""Westville is the highest taxpaying district in the city," she said. "People here can afford to live elsewhere."

You over estimate the financial importance of westville over the rest of the city. According to the Mayor, who lives in westville, nearly 60% of the tax base is derived from six square miles of downtown area.
In fact westville pays taxes at a rate of 70% of assessment, the same as all other resident properties in the city. Fact two, homeowners fair better than the 71% of renters in the city since owners can deduct the taxes paid and the mortgage interest on their federal & state taxes. With that in mind you may actually be paying less than renters, where most of the crime appears to be happening. If you choose to live elsewhere, no problem, in order for you to move, someone has to buy, and as the city See's it, I still get paid.

So Natilie, give it a break, the chief has already said he will not change the current manpower distribution.

Posted by: CHAPELITE | October 9, 2008 3:21 PM

Nice comparison, fairhavenres, but there's a major distinction between a renter and a homeowner in an owner-occupied home.

Posted by: Gary Doyens | October 9, 2008 3:40 PM

Since the mayor claims he knows cheap and political, it's probably because he's been looking at it for 8 terms or longer - in the mirror.

Quite frankly, taxpayers in general and parents of children in the public schools are tired of lame excuses for excessive spending and standards so low a snake could pass. Just like DeStefano cooks the books on the graduation rate which is at least a third less than he claims; he lies about the property tax increase ((9% vs. 15%); and claims the state is cutting funds even when the state gives its dependent New Haven $14 million more than it gave it the year before. That's cheap and political.

The constant theatrical performance around the city ID card; Yale New Haven Hospital; Chapel Street Fire and Denz -- all cheap and political.

The stuffing the boards and commissions with cronies who regularly mug the public by not releasing PUBLIC information and refusing to hold them accountable - cheap and political.

Giving inaugural speeches talking about being bold and visionary in a time of economic downturn - intentionally providing a rosy picture knowing his proposed budget was in deep trouble - cheap and political.

Launching a political campaign for re-election by calling for "good politics" where disagreements and battles are not zero sum games; and then doing exactly that: cheap and political.

Submitting an unbalanced budget to the BOA claiming it is balanced in order to blame the state and the New Haven area state legislators - cheap and political.

Claiming New Haven's fiscal mess is all about PILOT payments and lots of non-profit real estate; claiming the city has an exemplary bond rating when it doesn't - cheap and political.

Refusing to put City of New Haven healthcare policies out to bid during the entire length of your administration; agreeing to sweetheart union deals in the midst of a governor's race, dropping the city ID card in the middle of the same race - cheap and political.

Waiting a few days after your election to announce you're demanding a $30,000 payhike for yourself - NOT CHEAP, but definitely political.

As for the New Haven Promise - try this one: Promise to reduce spending and taxes; promise to raise standards and be responsive to all concerned parents who want a good education and a better life for their kids; promise to quit blaming others for your own failure of leadership; promise to give back your payraise and not seek another one because of your poor performance and lack of accomplishments in office; promise not to steal good and honorable ideas from others and make them cheap and political.

Posted by: James | October 9, 2008 3:50 PM

WEBBLOG1, Math. Math, WEBBLOG1. Now that we've all been properly introduced let me explain that a 70% assessment on a $400,000 home is just a tiny bit more than 70% of a $50,000 rundown hovel. Westville, along with a few select neighborhoods, is one of the few places in this city where upper-middle class folks feel comfortable living. Once the rest of the City starts looking and feeling like Newhallville you're going to lose a nice chunk of your tax base. What happens when the commercial leaseholders (who comprise your downtown tax base) can no longer find employees willing to put up with New Haven? What happens when the restaurants don't have customers because everybody has left for greener pastures? Then your downtown tax base starts to look a little less attractive as well. You better thank your lucky stars that Yale can't just pick up and move, because that's the only thing holding this place together.

Oh, also, those are some nice, specific numbers. 60%, six square miles, "homeowners fair better than the 71% of renters in the city." Can you back any of that up or did you just add some numbers to make your argument more persuasive?

Posted by: FairHavenRes | October 9, 2008 4:17 PM

There is no distinction, we are all people and residents of this city.

Posted by: archcmt | October 9, 2008 4:26 PM

I hope Natalie Judd is not really as arrogant and as selfish as she is portrayed in this article. Our neighborhood recently met with the police chief, and voiced many of the same frustrations - but with more understanding of the stretched resources of the Police Department - and of the City.

Posted by: Webblog 1 | October 9, 2008 6:06 PM

James,
I hate to burst your lofty bubble, but there are few, if any, $400,000 assessed properties in West ville. Please go to: http://data.visionappraisal.com/NewHavenCT/findpid.asp#closest

You may have to sign up in order to get into the data base. I have already done so, and I can tell you it's a difficult stretch to find a 400K home in WV.Forget that argument.

If you need to verify the factual 71% renter base in New Haven, just visit www.census.gov.
As to the six square miles and 60% tax base... that comes from the city of New Haven economic development department, and is readily used by the Mayor in his speeches, he lives in westville, but not in a $400,000 house.

There you have it..check it out for yourself.
You ask what happens when the commercial lease holders can no longer stand New Haven, AH dud.. that's easy, your taxes go up^^.

Posted by: it takes a village | October 9, 2008 6:23 PM

Sorry about your bikes...I too live in Westville and my neighbors do leave their garage and house doors open.We need to remind each other about safety.Speeding is also an issue as children go to and from school.I agree that crime is a problem all over New Haven,but violent crimes MUST take priority! Working people(who also contribute to New Haven's tax economy)are getting held up as they walk and bus to and from jobs all over our city.Gas stations and corner stores are hangouts -police?Delivery drivers-be cautious.Our teenagers and youth are most in need of preventative policing and more programs run or mentored by adults in the community.Music videos and myspace are glorifying violence and gang activity to all our children.Parents check your computers and know your childs friends!The latest assault I read about in the independent happened to a 10 year old boy by kids his same age-it was on a school day off.We should all be outraged and expecting our schools as well as parents to step in as soon as they see disturbing behavior in our kids.Look out for each other,teach your kids to speak out for themselves and others and lets make New Haven a place where we all can feel safe!Welcome Chief Lewis...you have some big shoes to fill but I am optomistic you may just be the man to do it.

Posted by: JMS | October 9, 2008 9:53 PM

I have lived in New Haven all my life (39 years). I have lived downtown, Beaver Hill, East Rock and Westville. I think of Westville as "home" since most of my early childhood was spent there and I live there now. I have been a Westville homeowner for about 8 years. I have seen increases and decreases in what I would classify as petty crime and burglery... garage break-in's... stolen bicyles... etc. But "real crime" (violent crime) is extremely rare and has never even come close to the levels that occur in other neighborhoods around New Haven. We have no more then a handful of muggings per year... if even a handful. I'm not dismissing any crime as acceptable or tolerable by any means... but this is a large city folks... crime does happen. Be smart. Lock doors. Close and lock garages. Don't leave anything portable of significant value in plain sight in your garage or near a 1st floor window while you are at work. Get an alarm. Arm it at night when you sleep. There are simple ways to avoid problems.

There are risks and rewards to living in a big city and we all get to decide for ourselves where we choose to make a home. I am happy to call New Haven and Westville my home. I am happy to raise my child in New Haven attentding public schools the way my wife and I did growing up here. We are better people for having grown up in New Haven.

New Haven is certainly not perfect but I'll take it over the boring over rated suburbs any day. Sure it takes a little more caution and vigilence to stay safe these days... welcome to the modern world. Be smart and proactive and observant and don't become a victim.

JMS

Posted by: BTDT | October 9, 2008 10:41 PM

I'm the same age as JMS and also grew up in Westville, off Fountain St. While I was a child there more than 30 years ago, our house was robbed while the whole family was asleep upstairs, my brother and I were mugged, and my mother was hit by a car. As bad as it was then, I am shocked when I go back at how much worse it has become. There are even 2 registered sex offenders living on my old street. Good luck, everyone - with the economy going down the tubes, it'll get worse before it gets better.

Posted by: it takes a village | October 9, 2008 11:27 PM

Another day off from school ...another child shot in New Haven.When will it end? "It takes a village to raise a child."

Posted by: Free Speech | October 9, 2008 11:48 PM

What has the Chief done for this city. He had a few prostitutes taken off the street for a few hours, and they are all back again walking in front of my house. He provided them with a free meal and a short stay at one union.
he passed out blackberries. there are still not enough cops out policing. Everyone is being fooled just like they were during Chief Ortiz honeymoon period. This Chief just hasn't been riding his bike. Sounds like Ortiz rhetoric. This chief talks a good talk and remember he's leaving before you blink. He has no roots here and doesn't care!!!

Posted by: The Funky Chicken | October 10, 2008 12:36 AM

Hi All:

As I understand it the tax paying breakdown is as follows:

1. Downtown pays the most taxes - this is because of all the commercial property.
2. East Rock is the next highest tax generating area and is the largest Homeowner paying area.
3. Westville is next

I believe what Ms. Judd is trying to articulate is that people who live in Westville (and for that matter East Rock, Parts of Beaver Hills and the Annex, etc) don't have to remain in the city, they can afford to move to the suburbs. One can purchase a home in Orange for a bit more money but with the lower tax payment the average monthly payment is about the same. Yes many live here because they enjoy the diverse neighborhoods and great cultural scene. Others are committed to living close to work so they can bike, or believe that the burbs are dead.
BUT if quality of life issues (some enumerated below) are not addressed they will pick up and leave.
Some quality of life issues are:
1. The ability to walk down the street without the FEAR of being mugged (not necessarily actually being mugged but thinking that you may be mugged, because as we all know perception is reality). The moment someone will no longer walk around the neighborhood is the moment the concept of moving drops into their head.
2. Not feeling that they can have their child walk down the block to their friend
3. Feeling uncomfortable ever time they see young urban males in the street that they don't recognize.

Additionally (and perhaps most importantly), when the Police discount the crimes committed in the area as unimportant because of what is going on in other neighborhoods (shootings, prostitution, active drug dealing etc) the residents of these nicer neighborhoods feel rejected and after awhile start thinking that, OK if the Police or City wont address this problem and this is going to be a fact of life in the area, can I live with this fact, or should I move.

People love New Haven but they will not stay here if they can't enjoy their own front yard.

TFC

Posted by: JMS | October 10, 2008 7:33 AM

BTDT,

I'm not here to change your opinion... but 30 years ago when your home was robbed if you had ADT or any kind of modern home alarm system with motion sensors and and loud siren that robbery would probably not have happened.

If you or anyone wants to flee the city for the "safety of the suburbs" go right ahead. But I would remind you that (speaking of robberies and home invasions) that these days crime does happen in the suburbs as well. Remember the recent events in Cheshire? Home invasion and murder? Remember the sex offender that broke into the lawyers house in Fairfield? I could list endless examples of horrific crimes that happen in the comfort of the suburbs where every neighbor interviewed on the TV news would say "who would have thought something like this could ever happen here?"

Crime happens everywhere. And you are 100% correct that crime rates and the economy have a direct relationship. But if you think fleeing to the suburbs will save you then you are mistaken. The only way to avoid problems is to be smart and observant no matter what your zip code may be.

JMS

Posted by: James | October 10, 2008 9:06 AM

WEBLOG1, my bad. If you say those are census stats, I'll take your word for it. Too many people simply put numers into thier arguments to make them sound more legitimate. On top of which, I misread a comment of yours that I even quoted.

That being said, I think my original point stands. While you may not find homes assessed at $400k, assessment is usually a good bit lower than market rate. But yes, people pay taxes on assessed value and not market value. So make it $300k, or even $200k. My point is simply that people in these neighborhoods do pay considerably more in taxes simply based on the value of their homes. These people can and will leave and take a nice chunk of the tax base with them.

Posted by: jackie | October 10, 2008 9:17 AM

TFC--
dead on with your #1 and #3, imho. appearances aren't everything but again, when the "young urban males" identify wardrobe- and comportment-wise with an aggressive and violent street culture, well, it's hard not to get hardened in response.

also--it seems to me the 24 hr food mart place on whalley is a bad spot/attracts a lot of loiterers. anyone mention anything about this?

Posted by: Kevin Ewing | October 10, 2008 10:33 AM

What troubles me more than anything in this exchange is the pitting of one neighborhood against another. This city is too small for that. I haven't seen ANY management team or neighborhood activist group that would say they have enough police presence and don't need any more patrols.

The reality is that there are not enough police to go around and even if they spent their entire shifts making arrests there would be crimes happening a few blocks over. And who wants to live in a city that is run by the police? Has anyone ever spent time in a 'Police State'? And even those places still have thefts, burglaries and the occasional homicide. Policing is part of the solution but not all.

Crime is a city-wide problem and needs to be addressed holistically. And as I stated above we can not simply depend on law enforcement to address it. There are studies that show that things like more community gardens, more organized community usage of parks and open spaces, more traffic controls, more resident involvement in governance, more neighbors relating to each other and many other things are excellent compliments to law enforcement in addressing issues in the life of a city. And not all of it requires money to make happen. What it does require is commitment from residents to come together, work together and share the responsibility for the care and governance of our city.

Do you know your neighbors? Do you know their names and a little about their stories? Do you know the names of the kids in your neighborhood? Have you ever had a conversation with the teens on your block and the blocks surrounding it?

What percentage of your neighborhood participates in management teams, block watches or other organized neighborhood activities? If you participate, how many of your neighbors have you personally invited to join you? Do you know what social service agencies are operating in your area? Do you know if they are being effective?

We will always have crime. There are always going to be knuckleheads and numskulls doing stupid and antisocial things in the 'world as it is.' To expect any less is unrealistic. However we are not helpless. We do NOT have to continue to be victims. But we do have to come together, work together and believe that together we can make a difference.

I got more to say but this post is already way too long.

Posted by: robn | October 10, 2008 2:06 PM

I found something kind of cool...Trulia does heat maps of property values...it gives you a sense of who is paying most taxes...which the whole city should be sensitive to becuase we want to preserve, not destroy the tax base. I don't take the ballistic postition that services should be doled out in proportion to taxes paid but I do think that relatively safe neighborhoods shoudn't be expected to accept below minimum services (neighborhoods at least deserve a dedicated per capita police presence.)

http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/Connecticut/New_Haven-heat_map/

http://www.cityofnewhaven.com/Library/maps/neighborhoods.gif

Posted by: Webblog 1 | October 10, 2008 3:17 PM

Robn:
Thanks but no, Truila simply provides declining Real Estate values set by Realtors, they are NOT tied to a cities tax base.
A sale Of real estate in the city does provide the city a conveyance fee, but even that is not related to the tax base or the next assessment.
There is no basis for your comparability study as it relates to services provided by a city in CT.
Sorrwee!!?!.

Posted by: robn | October 11, 2008 9:34 AM

WEBLOG1,

Your're incorrect. Real Estate listings are generally a refelection of the current market. The prices paid for propoerty will ultimately affect property revaluations which are based upon comparable sales.

Posted by: robn | October 11, 2008 9:37 AM

WEBLOG1,

Your're incorrect. Real Estate listings are generally a refelection of the current market. The prices paid for propoerty will ultimately affect property revaluations which are based upon comparable sales.

Posted by: shellye | October 12, 2008 8:20 AM

A handful of muggings in a year? There have been at least three in the last month and a half. One involved punching the person in the face, the other at gunpoint---both in the middle of the day. wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Webblog 1 | October 12, 2008 12:14 PM

Robn:
Thank you,
But the central issue of contention is as you stated above and I quote:

"I don't take the ballistic position that services should be doled out in proportion to taxes paid but I do think that relatively safe neighborhoods shouldn't be expected to accept below minimum services (neighborhoods at least deserve a dedicated per capital police presence.")

I agree, services should not be doled out in proportion to taxes paid.

DONE

Posted by: Edward_H | October 12, 2008 2:29 PM

JMS

Crime happens everywhere. And you are 100% correct that crime rates and the economy have a direct relationship. But if you think fleeing to the suburbs will save you then you are mistaken. The only way to avoid problems is to be smart and observant no matter what your zip code may be

I agree with you that crime is everywhere but crime plus questionable schools, a wasteful city government and the big jump in taxes are making New Haven less than a desirable place to live.

An open question to the readers here:

To those who can afford to move yet decide to stay. What keeps you in New Haven? Churches? Restaurants? The Parks?

Posted by: JMS | October 13, 2008 7:18 AM

SHELLYE,

"A handful of muggings in a year? There have been at least three in the last month and a half."

.... I was one of them. Four deadbeats looking for a quick score tried to grab a bag of beer/wine from me as I exited the new wine shop down in the Village. (Didn't go so well for them.)

You're missing the point. I'll repeat it. Crime happens everywhere. MUCH MORE SERIOUS crime happens in other neighborhoods but very rarely in Westville. Should we be upset about (based on your math) a couple dozen muggings (or attempts) per year in a city of this size? Of course we should. Should we exercise caution and common sense when we walk the streets of ANY neighborhood? Of course we should. But to sit here and freak out about a rampant wave of crime in Westville is just completely out of proportion. In other nighborhood people are getting shot on a regular basis. Should we be concerned about crime? Yes. But not hysterical. Other neighborhoods are having much more serious problems... and deserve a far greater balance of attention and support from the city and the Police in my opinion.

And Edward_H,

"What keeps you in New Haven?"

Besides the obvious tourist attraction type answers like art, culture and fine dining... honestly it's hard for me to nail down one answer to your question. My wife and I grew up here so there is a familiarity that is not replacable. But more so I think we just want to make sure our child is raised in a diverse environment that more closely mirrors the real world. Isolation in the suburbs might reduce certain "risks" that people are arguing about here on this post. But in the end I would rather manage the risks to avoid the boredom and blandness of suburban life... with no sense of community what so ever. Growing up in New Haven worked out pretty well for me. I know that I am a better person for having done so. And I should point out that I did a lot of that growing up in the heated 80's when things were pretty bad around here. I'm not blind to crime and problems... I just know that with a clear head and some awareness serious problems can generally be avoided. And again... if anyone doesn't feel this way then go ahead and move to Cheshire. We won't miss you.

JMS

Posted by: JMS | October 13, 2008 7:51 AM

EDWARD_H,

One last thing. You may find New Haven schools to be "questionable" and I will agree that they are far from perfect. But I have some very close friends and family members who have in the recent past or are now actively teaching and/or administrating in suburban public schools in Southington, Wallingford and elsewhere. If you think it's much better out there then I would disagree. Based on what feedback I get from them the problems with our modern schools that stem from budget constraints, bullshit testing standards and the whole No-Child-Left-Behind fiasco are not limited to New Haven Public Schools. I know there are limitations to public school (in general) and so I do my best as a parent to enhance my childs education and upbringing every chance I get. But I can say that I have been generally pleased with the local (Westville/Edgewood) school based community and that the experience my child has at school has been very positive. And I should mention that a great deal of that positive experience is directly related to other neighborhood kids and more importantly their parents who also take an active role in their kids lives and the surrounding school/neighborhood based community.

JMS

Posted by: Jenny | October 13, 2008 9:30 PM

Can New Haven't afford to deal with less property taxes coming in if more Westville residents move away? I don't think so. What seems to be happening is the natural progression of the DeStefano administration. First it was poor citizens in the city getting screwed over in favor of illegal alien criminals, and now it's the middle classes turn to be treated as less than. DeStefano and his puppet police chief are showing you how little they care. They presume that you will either have to put up with it, or you'll be replaced.

Face it, decent, law abiding, taxpaying citizens of New Haven aren't their recognized constituency, it's the corporate and business interests who profit by DeStefano's administration. It will only get worse. Get out while you have the chance.

Posted by: JMS | October 14, 2008 7:39 AM

JENNY,

Thanks for the concern but no thanks... I'm staying. But go right ahead and leave if you have not already... or ever actually lived here in the first place. (I have found that the most vocal critcism of New Haven life posted on the NHI tends to come from out of town folks.)

Like I said before we won't miss you. And I do hope you like Friendly's and IHOP.

JMS