New Haven Independent

Posted by: James | December 2, 2008 4:58 PM

I'm a gun owner myself and I am very much in support of the right to defend oneself. But in this case it sounds like the Madness folks created a situation more hazardous than previously existed. Brave and undoubtedly inspired by good intentions, but an exchange of 40 rounds in a residential area doesn't really seem to be worth the potential risk to bystanders.

Posted by: Streever | December 2, 2008 6:11 PM

So glad my neighbors don't do stupid things like this in East Rock. I'm sorry, I'd rather a store owner lose the 100 bucks in their register instead of having 40 rounds fired in East Rock.

hope all the wannabee John Wayne's who brag on this site are better shots than the Wing Madness fellows.

Posted by: James | December 2, 2008 8:02 PM

Problem is, sometimes it's not just $100, Dave. Sometimes it's your life. I don't think it's fair to label anybody who supports ownership of firearms as a "John Wayne wannabe." Guns have a time and a place. This just wasn't either.

Posted by: V | December 2, 2008 8:33 PM

Streever, that generic "store owner" is a person. Have you asked him if he is grateful to the owners of Wing Madness? Maybe he didn't want to become known as any easy target, aka the neighborhood ATM. Maybe he didn't want to be held up every month.

I usually pay around $20 for a haircut. I think they probably had a lot more than 5 haircuts of business that day, and I think you may rethink your stance if someone came to your business and took $5-600 from you. I don't think Dexter is like Supercuts (a big corporation able to shrug off the loss of a day's receipts). Losing that much money can be crippling to a small business. You trivialize the effects of a robbery on this guy, when you shouldn't.

Can you quantify the deterrent effect from this incident, which may benefit all the businesses in the area?

Posted by: Dexter | December 2, 2008 9:45 PM

This could have all been avoided if the police cracked down on sidewalk riding and graffiti in this part of town. David your remark was rather snide and elitist, but what else can we expect from you.

Posted by: Lance | December 3, 2008 5:10 AM

Nice job wing madness. If you don't stand up to these thugs they'll keep pulling the same s**t. I hope NHPD catches them all and locks them up.

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | December 3, 2008 5:16 AM

STREEVER

Might seem stupid to you, but I betcha that no one tries to rob either establishment in the future!

Posted by: ctizen | December 3, 2008 7:48 AM

STREEVER - If you read the story they were taking him in the back of the building he thought they were going to kill him SHAME ON YOU for your thoughtless comments stay in EAST ROCK !!! AND IT WAS NOT STUPID be in that position and come back and tell your story.

Posted by: Bill | December 3, 2008 8:03 AM

At least hunters know enough not to fire unless they have a clear shot at their target.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | December 3, 2008 8:33 AM

I am backing Streever up on this one.

People, a shoot out in the streets of New Haven!! Wild wild west or what? Please it is this kind of mentality that gets a stray bullet in the homes behind the businesses, in the back bedrooms where children sleep! No! These guys should not be gun owners! This is the kind of behavior that ruins the reputation of responsible gun owners.

Posted by: AJAY | December 3, 2008 9:14 AM

I PERSONALLY WOULD BE HONORED TO HAVE A BUSINESS NEXT TO WING MADNESS. HAVING SPOKE PERSONALLY TO THE VICTIM HE STATED THAT THEY "SAVED MY LIFE". I'D RATHER HAVE DEXTER ALIVE THAN DEAD. ITS GOOD TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE STILL SOME GOOD SAMARITANS IN THIS WORLD.HAD THEY NOT BEEN LEGAL GYN OWNERS WE COULD HAVE 3 DEAD PEAPLE RIGHT NOW RATHER THAN NONE. DESMOND AND GARFIELD YOU ALL ARE GREAT PEOPLE.

Posted by: Edward_H | December 3, 2008 9:30 AM

James

This article leaves out the victims statement of being forced to the back of the store where he thought he was about to be killed. Had the guys from Wings not intervened those low lives probably would have shot the guy for no good reason. Then this robbery would be a one paragraph blurb in the daily crime news. I just hope the guys from Wings are not charged with anything. As for me I am going to show my support for these guys and buy my lunch there today.

Cedarhill

It is not the guys from Wings who put the public at risk, it was the criminal scum who decided to put a gun to the head of a hard working, tax paying business owner.

Streever

So glad my neighbors don't do stupid things like this in East Rock.

Let's hope your neighbors remember this if they ever see 2 masked teens taking you around the back of a building.

Posted by: Pat | December 3, 2008 9:31 AM

CTZEN, the story doesn't say that they were taking him in the back of the store, at least this one doesn't. There is a much more comprehensive version of what really happened and how this store owner's life was actually saved on the New Haven Register's website. It looks like these robbers were taking him to the back of the store when the heroes from next door opened fire.

Posted by: Hood Rebel | December 3, 2008 9:35 AM

Streever, there are unknowns and unknowables in our community that folks like you just won't get.

Posted by: William Kurtz | December 3, 2008 9:47 AM

The story in the New Haven Register has a little more detail--enough to suggest that Mr. Jones was indeed in reasonable fear for his life.

I don't think anyone wants 'Wild West'-style shootouts in the streets, but with guns a reality in American society (for better or for worse) this was a good outcome. There are a lot of ways it could have gone bad: if a bystander was hit, we would be reading a different story--but we would also be reading a different story if no one had come to Mr. Jones' aid.

Posted by: citizen | December 3, 2008 9:47 AM

PAT - Go to page four and read it again he said they told him to go to the back of the building and Mr. Jones said he thought they were going to shoot him get your facts right and yes the Wing Madness owners saw this and the shooting started.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | December 3, 2008 10:11 AM

Ed I agree the bad guys started it, I think there was more to this. I am sure the POPO will get a better understanding of what happened once all involved are questioned. And the right to defend, is an important one. But as I read the story it just seem to me that the "rescuers" where a bit recluse to me. This could of ended up a blood bath. If we ok this kind of bang bang shootem up attitude, do you think it is going to stop the bad guys?? or is it going to just make them quicker on the trigger??

Posted by: William Kurtz | December 3, 2008 10:38 AM

CHR, it could have ended up a bloodbath, but it didn't. It could have ended with an unsolved murder, but it didn't. It even could have ended up with the robbers killed, but it didn't.

I think you and I probably share views about gun control and gun violence for the most part, but in this case, it's not up to 'us' to 'okay' or decline to okay what happened the other day. Concern about making the future bad guys quicker on the trigger is probably not of concern to someone facing the barrel of a gun at any given moment.

I'm curious to know what you think should happen next for the owners of Wings Madness.

Posted by: norton street | December 3, 2008 10:52 AM

i would be extremely cautious the next few weeks, because there is a good chance the robbers will want revenge.
robbers and other criminals of the type have nothing to lose. they are anonymous and reckless, they never have to comes to terms with what they do/have done unless caught. the wings madness people have responded to these reckless guntoters but recklessly toting guns and firing 40ish shots in a residential neighborhood. the only problem is that these wings madness people arent anonymous, theyre actually famous now because of the story, they are real people who have things to lose, criminals will always attack people that have something to lose.

the wings madness guys are surely brave and i commend them on standing up for a fellow business owner. but i'm not sure if this is case where the positives outweigh the negative (40 shots!).

Posted by: Deuce | December 3, 2008 11:05 AM

"If we ok this kind of bang bang shootem up attitude, do you think it is going to stop the bad guys??"

It did in this case. An innocent victim's life was saved.

Posted by: z | December 3, 2008 12:17 PM

The remarkable thing is that 40 shots were fired, and nobody got hurt.

Posted by: jackie | December 3, 2008 12:57 PM

Glad the owners are ok. And glad to see people defending themselves/their neighbors from criminals. Prayers and props to the good guys here.

Let's hope now that the "vice" unit is formally established, we can ramp it up on the cowardly thugs among us. Their lives should be considered as cheap and expendable as they hold others'.

I'll worry about turning the other cheek on these pissants when I don't have to worry that they'll kill, harm, or threaten another innocent victim.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | December 3, 2008 1:16 PM

William Kurtz

honestly I do not think any jail time should happen. But I do think maybe a some hours of community service maybe a good thing with some of the more hard core kids that the out reach workers deal with. One or two shots in defense but a shoot out hmmmm I am sorry that was excessive and recluse! Maybe it was out of fear but still.

And I think norton street's comment has some major truth in it.

Posted by: anon | December 3, 2008 1:46 PM

You can argue all you want, but $600 is not worth someone's life. Period.

Discharge of a weapon should have a minimum 50 year sentence, no parole.

Posted by: William Kurtz | December 3, 2008 2:17 PM

Let's not forget that there were at least four people with guns (Mr. Jones told the Register that one attacker put a gun to his head and another put one in his side) out there--none of the news stories I read indicated how many shots any individual fired. For the time being, there's really nothing to indicate that the men who intervened acted particularly recklessly.

Gun ownership is like riding bicycles on the sidewalk; neither statistics nor anecdotes can tell the whole story. What's true today, in an individual situation might not be true tomorrow, or all the time. But at the same time, what the numbers say breaks down when it's very clear that a person's life was probably saved Monday night.

Posted by: unprotected | December 3, 2008 4:24 PM

anyone thank the cops for putting their lives on the line, pulling up into a gunfight, making several arrests, getting several guns, and not hurting anyone? nice job to the police...

Posted by: Good | December 3, 2008 4:28 PM

Have you noticed a pattern with liberals? The seem to always give the benefit of the doubt to the criminals. Comments like 'all they wanted was money' is silly. Why would you think armed robbers are anything but evil?

At the same time liberals look down and mock law-abiding firearm owners. Online, on TV, in newspapers every time a good person stops a criminal using the utility of their firearm they are looked upon as the bad guy. I see no emotion coming from liberals AGAINST the criminals, and I see negative emotions and sometimes hatred AGAINST the law-abiding citizen.

You NEVER give the benefit of the doubt to a criminal that is assaulting you. *Pointing a gun at someone is 'Aggravated Assault with a deadly weapon'. You should ALWAYS believe that the criminal is there to rape or murder you or your spouse. Being nice to the criminals only works on TV.

Posted by: V | December 3, 2008 5:28 PM

"Discharge of a weapon should have a minimum 50 year sentence, no parole."

*sigh*
Let us all remember that before we act to help you when someone has a gun to your head, Anon.

Posted by: LU | December 3, 2008 6:40 PM

I PERSONALLY KNOW DESMOND AND GARFEILD. THEY ARE PRAYING, GOD FEARING GENTLEMEN. NO INNOCENT BYSTANDERS WERE HIT IN THE CROSS FIRE.THEY TOOK THE NEEDED ACTION AT THAT THE TIME. PRAY FOR THEM AND THEIR COMMUNITY. LET GOD JUDGE THEM.

Posted by: Another Bill | December 3, 2008 6:48 PM

"At least hunters know enough not to fire unless they have a clear shot at their target."

Bill,

Hunters are not as careful as you assume. In fact, accidental shootings occur so much that the VT supreme court just ruled that hunters who accidentally shoot someone as a result of not "identifying the target" can be charged with aggravated assault.

To make an assumption of my own, I'd argue that most gun owners are itching to use their weapons, even if they are legal owners. It must be a considerable tease to have such a powerful device and never be able to use it. And, without proper places for gun owners to use their legal weapons (i.e. shooting ranges), it's not hard to believe that most would never be considered skilled marksmen, especially in the face of danger. This is a skill learned in the armed forces, a dehumanizing process to put it literally.

Don't even get me started on the illegal gunowners who miss their targets.

--Bill

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | December 3, 2008 7:49 PM

To all the danger with this picture is that when the police pull up.What if there did not know who the bad guys from the good guys was and shot the good guys? What if those bullets from there guns would have hit someone,Police are protected by the law.Citzens are not.Last African American even with a legal firearm must still be careful when there pull out a firearm and you know what i mean.

Posted by: kamb | December 4, 2008 1:13 AM

The guys that own that wings place should get a medal! They got involved and possibly saved the guys life. If everyone gave a damn about their fellow good-citizens like that, Crime would have no place to hide.

STOP giving in to criminals and appeasing them! Fight them, snitch on them, and give'em a black eye!

Posted by: jahad | December 4, 2008 5:58 AM

i don't think i have ever read so many out of touch responses on this blog as this topic. If a comrade/friend is seen with a gun to their head being robbed and taken into their establishment, what would go through your mind? If you have a gun and the courage to stand up, you use it! these so-called John wayne expert shooters on this blog probably have never shot a weapon with return fire coming their way. Sure it's easy to go into the woods and shoot at racoon, deer and even bear, but how good would your shot be if that beaver, raccoon or deer shot back at you? Both myself (U.S Army) and Dexter (Marine Corp), served the armed forces and know that shooting on the range is unlike shooting with live fire coming back at you. If the guys got off some shots and missed, at least they were able to maintain and return fire- let me see you try it if a Bambi returned fire at you.
Thankfully, no of the victims nor bystanders were hurt.
You freakin Monday morning quarterbacks have all the answers!

Posted by: unprotected | December 4, 2008 8:05 AM

threefifths sounds like he has a race issue. a white guy in east haven pulled out a gun when he was attacked by a pit bull. he got arrested. to me, it seems like you should pull out a gun only if you, or someone near you is in danger of "serious physical injury or death". those are the only justifiable means of using a firearm. if you pull out a gun because you were disrespected or "illed", i don't think that rises to the level of serious physical injury or death. but then again, i am just a humble blogger and am out of touch witht he street.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | December 4, 2008 11:11 AM

Unprotected
A cross the country African American police officers have been shot by mistake,In fact New York city alone had 23 African American police officers shot by mistake and 18 have been assaulted because they was mistaken for the criminal,In fact a friend of mine who is a NYPD Detective with 30 years on the force is writing a book on this and he is Caucasian. So i do not have a race issue,I go by the facts and that is if you are a African American you better be careful when you pull that gun out because nine out ten race will become a fact.

Posted by: unprotected | December 4, 2008 5:19 PM

threefifths... you are comparing the Big Apple to oranges... 43,000 cops, who don't know each other, versus 400 who do... i understand mis-identifying the suspect, but how many of the minority officers, identified themselves as a cop? interesting data though, let me know the name of the book, i would be interested in reading it. NHPD puts out if there are plain clothes on scene ovr the radio. off duty also has an obligation to identify themselves to the first uniformed officer they see.

Posted by: Insider | December 4, 2008 5:32 PM

Threefiths makes a valid point, just two years ago a young Latino police officer was attacked in a fast food resturant, and when he stumbled outside he drew his service weapon and was shot to death. You also have to take into consideration that there are over 30,000 cops in New York, and about 400 cops in New Haven, and they pretty know who's who.

Posted by: laststraw | December 4, 2008 5:50 PM

"At the same time liberals look down and mock law-abiding firearm owners." -Good

Dear Good,
I voted for Obama. I junked my SUV for a fuel efficient vehicle. I own DVD copies of every Michael Moore film, Al Gore's documentary, and my personal favorite, The Education of Shelby Knox. I ride a bicycle in town more than I drive. I'm vegan. I attended the "Battle in Seattle". At the RNC in NYC, during the protests, I was almost arrested (drat). I donate money to liberal causes. I visit an organic country fair every year in Maine. I think the US should leave Iraq. I hate Joe Lieberman. I have worked for FoodNotBombs. I don't think men should get a decision when it comes to abortion.
I am a registered gun owner, class 3 FFL, even. I belong to the NRA. I believe that while maybe the WingSlingers acted too quickly, I support their ultimate decision. Tomorrow, I will purchase wings (ack, I'm vegan) and give them to my favorite downtown homeless guys.
At the end of the day, gun-totin' aside, I'm still very, very liberal. You should check your partisan beliefs at the door and not use such definitive words like, "NEVER" (and gosh, not in all CAPS -- interwebs etiquette?). If you ever want to have a real political discussion, let's meet at BlueTrail sometime. We can't play on full-auto, but what-the-heck, it'll be fun. Maybe I could talk to you about how with a Democrat as president, we'll see more use of private contractors overseas, cheaper ammunition prices, and less gun control.
Get a grip dude. People are pissed. We had a for-real shootout -- 40 bullets is a lot of bullets -- and New Haveners don't take that lightly. No need to cry about liberals.
as a side note, if you really hate liberals that much, you should probably move, you're sorely and severely outnumbered in this town, and it doesn't look like that will ever change in our lifetimes.

Posted by: fedupwithliberals | December 4, 2008 7:31 PM

THREEFIFTHS

While any officer being shot at by mistake is tragic, please put things into perspective. The NYC police force is 40,000 strong. If 23 get shot at by accident, that translates to 0.6% of the population. Not exactly earth shattering.

Posted by: V | December 4, 2008 9:30 PM

Hey LASTSTRAW, you need to open up shop in New Haven. I've been looking for a good area FFL. I'm no vegan, but I ride a bike.

Posted by: norton street | December 4, 2008 9:42 PM

fuwl, wasnt 3/5s point that of the 23 who were shot 100% were minorities. that seems earth shattering to me.

Posted by: Dexter A. Jones, Sr. | December 4, 2008 9:49 PM

First and Foremost I WOULD LIKE TO THANK ALMIGHTY GOD FOR LETTING ME SEE ANOTHER DAY, FOR LETTING ME BREATH THE FRESH AIR THAT HE SUPPLIES ALL OF GODS PEOPLE FOR SURVIVAL. ALSO LET ME SAY THAT HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN, CAST THE FIRST STONE!I DIDN'T THINK SO!!!!
GARFIELD AND DESMOND MILLS SAVED MY LIFE ON MONDAY NIGHT, TO SIT HERE AND READ ALL THESE NEGATIVE COMMENTS SICKENS ME. THE ONLY THREE PEOPLE , NO LET ME COUNT AGAIN, THEY ONLY 5 PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THIS NIGHTMARE WERE MYSELF, THE MILLS BROTHERS AND TWO VERY CONFUSED YOUNG MEN. TO ALL THE NEGATIVE PEOPLE I DOUBT THAT YOUR LIVES HAVE EVER BEEN ON THE LINE, A GUN @ YOUR BACK AS WELL AS PRESSED AGAINST YOUR TEMPLE, YOU'VE GIVEN THE BADD GUYS EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE CLOTHS ON YOUR BACK AND HE SAYS TURN AROUND... THE FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN, WILL I BE SHOT IN THE LEG, THE BACK, THE HEAD, PISTOL WHIPPED EVEN? WILL THEY SHOOT ME ON THIS COLD NIGHT AND LEAVE ME BY THE TRASH DUMPSTER TILL THE MORNING WHEN SOMEONE FINDS MY LIFELESS BODY? WILL I BE FOREVER PARALIZED BY THE BULLET. CLOSE YOUR EYES, SHUT YOUR MOUTHS WITH THESE NEGATIVE COMMENTS AND PUT YOURSELF IN NOT ONLY MY SHOES, BECAUSE AFTER ALL GOD SENT ME TWO ANGELS, NOT CRIMINALS, BUT ALSO IN THE SHOES OF ALL THE INNOCENT PEOPLE THAT HAVE DIED AT THE HANDS OF WAYWARD KIDS.
TO THE GENTLEMAN OR TOUGH GUY FROM THE EAST ROCK AREA, WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE ELDERLY WOMAN WAS BEATEN BY 2 OR 3 KIDS THIS PAST SUMMER,IN THE EAST ROCK AREA. IF YOU WERE THERE MR. EAST ROCK WOULD YOU HAVE EVEN GOTTEN INVOLVED, OR WOULD YOU JUST PUT ON YOUR ROSE COLORED GLASSES AND GO ON WITH YOUR DAY? GET A LIFE SIR, AND STOP BEING A CRITIC ON LINE.
DESMOND AND GARFIELD SAVED MY LIFE THAT EVENING, MY WIFE, MOTHER, KIDS, FRIENDS,CUSTOMERS, LODGE BROTHERS,EVEN MY ENEMIES WILL FOREVER BE GRATEFUL TO THEM FOR THERE BRAVERY. ALL YOU NAY SAYERS NEED TO EXAMINE YOURSELVES, AND STOP THROWING STONES AT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT AFRAID OF THE YOUTH IN THE STREET THAT COMMIT ALL THIS KOAS IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
PERSONALLY IF I WAS A JUDGE I WOULD SEND EVERYONE OF THEM WITH A VIOLENT CRIME OVER TO WAR, LET THE GOOD YOUNG MEN WHO ARE FIGHTING AND DYING FOR OUR COUNTRY COME BACK HOME TO BE PRODUCTIVE CITIZENS IN THEIR COMMUNITIES. ALL THE CRIMINALS CAN FIGHT AND SHOOT AT PEOPLE FOR A REASON. MY GUESS IS THEY WILL PISS THERE PANTS IF THEY REALLY HAD TO GO INTO BATTLE.
THESE ARE THE COMMENTS COMING FROM THE VICTIM,I WAS THERE, LIVED TO TELL IT, SO DONT JUDGE ME OR MY ANGELS NEXT DOOR! OH YEH, IM NOT AFRIAD TO LIST MY NAME...
P/S EVERYONE THAT HAS SUPPORTED US DURING THIS ORDEAL I THANK YOU

DEXTER

Posted by: mick | December 4, 2008 10:56 PM

Pop a cap in these losers, yep ain't no more problem. You see people legaly don't have to allow there neighborhood to be overrun by trash.

Posted by: fedupwithliberals | December 5, 2008 8:05 AM

Well put Mr. Jones! God Bless you.

Posted by: DEZ | December 5, 2008 8:14 AM

Dexter, I'm glad you're safe. You said it all, and although in Fair Haven, where I live, I fear stray bullets like many, you stood in a place where many of the bloggers never will. I'm sure given the same situation that I would be happily rescued like you, to live another day. Right on with the comment about the gun toting youth being sent to war. Make them productive or perish. It works for me.

Posted by: Chris | December 5, 2008 8:25 AM

LASTSTRAW,

I'm interested in hearing how there will be less gun control and less expensive ammunition. Everything from Eric Holder to Biden to Obama points to more AWB BS and potential defacto ammo bans in the forms of higher taxes and, something CT played with last Summer, ammunition serialization. Not to mention the wholly absurd "microstamping" garbage.

If you have any info that will somehow calm my nerves and halt my panic stockpiling I'd be grateful.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | December 5, 2008 9:44 AM

Posted by: mick | December 4, 2008 10:56 PM

Pop a cap in these losers, yep ain't no more problem. You see people legaly don't have to allow there neighborhood to be overrun by trash.

OK see this comment above! This is why I am upset about how this went down! Again I do not think that the guys should go to jail.(40 shoots fired is over kill no pun intended.) But when condoning this type of behavior, you will give the ok to others to react this way too, include people with a less scruples. You will open the door to alot more of this vigilante type of behavior.

Again I am glad the man and the wing guys walked away ok. But I just fear the direction this can take the level criminals will be doing robberies now and how individual will be defending themselves. It can get even crazier if this is ok as excusable behavior!

Posted by: Hood Rebel | December 5, 2008 12:19 PM

Dex,
thanks for sharing your story and keeping it real.. Ignore the folks who have no idea of what it feels like to have your very life come to the brink of the end...and you're just hoping against all hope that a neighbor, someone, anyone will save you. let them live in their own little world; esposing their one ABSOLUTE ideology, policy,and belief when it comes to what neighbors,friends or family members should do if they were to witness someone about to be murdered.

Let them do that.

Meanwhil Bro,I am grateful that you're alive and grateful to your neighbors for stepping in to help.

Will be coming into Wing Madness for my Friday takeout

Posted by: Streever | December 5, 2008 2:15 PM

Does anyone know the truth on this, in all honesty?

I think 40 rounds and no one hit is a bit odd. Log some hours at the shooting range if you're going to be a vigilante with a gun, for crying out loud.

If my friends shot at robbers I probably would claim I thought the robbers were going to kill me, too: it's the only way my friends would get off the hook.

Do we know that really happened?

Not to call Dexter a liar, but it's a fair question. Let's see the results of a police investigation before we rush to judgement.

In the meantime, we do know that 40 rounds were fired, and no one hit. I stand by my statement: I'm really glad that has never happened in my neighborhood, and most of the people who talk big on this site about guns really are just wannabe john waynes--why? Because if they were really John Wayne they wouldn't be bragging about the size of their pistol on the internet.

Do you people have jobs?

Posted by: Hood Rebel | December 5, 2008 7:04 PM

Streever
Thanks for bringing up another reminder. 500,000 people are newly unemployed in November....

Posted by: Carla Morrison | December 5, 2008 7:06 PM

Hey Big Dex,

I just tried to call you. I'm glad everything worked out and you are still alive.:) I don't know what I would do without my Photo buddy, traveling the globe. God bless you man and don't worry about all the nay sayers, you know how our people do. If they aren't hating, what else will they do. Keep your head up and the next time I'm in New Haven tell the Wing folks I'm going to get my chicken from them as well. CM

P.S. I get my updates on the Elm City from the NH Independent, so this was serious news to me.

Posted by: V | December 5, 2008 7:17 PM

Streever, you are calling Dexter a liar. Do you ever question the accounts given by victims of crime who live in East Rock?

40 rounds fired, no one knows who fired them. Do you know how many of those the thieves fired? No, you don't.

Streever, your whole attitude needs to change.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | December 5, 2008 7:18 PM

Unprotected
I said across the country,Google in minority police officers mistake for criminals and shot.Fedupwithliberals This is in prespective,Feel
free to google this information your self.My friends book will be out in about 3 years when he will retire.My son gets his hair cut at dexter and he is a good man and i am glad that he is alive,But i will stand by my point and that is as a minority with a gun in your hand you better be careful.

Posted by: cedarhillresident | December 6, 2008 12:36 PM

V
He did fire them! He had a semi automatic with a clip. the kid had revolvers.

Posted by: Bill | December 6, 2008 1:22 PM

I have to admit, I am torn on this one. I'm proud of the Wings guys for coming to the rescue of their friend and neighbor, but this story would be entirely different if one of those missed shots hit an innocent bystander.

Before anyone responds, let me be clear, I don't think the Wings guys would have hit an innocent bystander, one said he only fired a few shots, however, those few shots initiated the gun battle which resulted in at least 40 errant bullets travelling through mixed residential and commercial space. We should all be thankful no one was hurt, especially Dexter who is a valuable community member, a role-model for local kids. I am very pleased that such a person was saved on that night. He has the potential to deter kids from the type of behavior that led to his robbery.

Three-Fifths, if your assumption is correct, and I believe it is, we are lucky the police did not open fire on the gun-toting minorities when they arrived on the scene. However, if vigilante behavior is celebrated and encouraged accidental shootings will only increase.

If the police are unable to differentiate between law-abiding minorities with guns and criminal minorities with guns, what hope is there for untrained vigilantes to make that distinction??

Like I said, I'm split between being happy for Dexter and the neighborhood but also cautious not to explicitly condone this behavior because of the possible ramifications.

This is a complicated story with no easy answers. The real value is the possibility of an open dialogue, such as the comments on this site, dealing with a divisive issue. We will all never agree, but there is no harm in a healthy debate. I know that I've already learned a lot.

--Bill

Posted by: Edward_H | December 7, 2008 1:16 PM

Another Bill

To make an assumption of my own, I'd argue that most gun owners areitching to use their weapons, even if they are legal owners. It must be a considerable tease to have such a powerful device and never be able touse it. And, without proper places for gun owners to use their legalweapons (i.e. shooting ranges),

There are several shooting ranges/private clubs within driving distance
of New Haven. http://www.bridgeportshootingrange.com/index.php even has a ladies night. Your assumption does not make any sense. Could you clarify?

Streever

Does anyone know the truth on this, in all honesty?

Not knowing the whole truth did not stop you from being the second person to comment on this article. And it certainly did not prevent you
from being the first to make an pompous remark about the intelligence of the actions men from Wings.

Technically you are not calling Dexter a liar but you sure did a good job of insinuating that he is one. That's pretty low of you to do this considering the man is a victim and he came close to either being harmed or killed. Do you think these criminals were walking him to
the back of the building at gunpoint to discuss presidential politics? Just because you would lie in this situation does not mean everyone else is as dishonest as you are.

Let's see the results of a police investigation before we rush to
judgement.

Is this coming from the person who shot off a comment on the article
barely 2 hours after it was originally posted? Is rushing to judgment
something only you have the right to do? After all you did say these men did a "stupid thing".

I'm really glad that has never happened in my neighborhood,

Do you think ANYONE wants this to happen in their neighborhood?

and most of the people who talk big on this site about guns really are just wannabe john waynes--why?

I would rather people think I am a John Wayne wannabe than be a callous arrogant jerk any day.

Posted by: Another Bill | December 7, 2008 9:29 PM

Edward H,

Let me clarify. There are no shooting ranges in New Haven that I know of, but there are a lot of people who own guns. Let's call it an 'unhealthy ratio'.

Posted by: Shauna | December 8, 2008 12:01 AM

I have been to Wing Madness a few times myself (actually, more than a few), and a relative of mine told me about this article and the overwhelming negative responses that are being posted about Wing Madness and it's owners.

Wing Madness brings a GREAT product to the New Haven community and I would like to see them continue to do so.

Last time I went I had a 10-piece shrimp with Mango sauce- and it was off-the-chain!! I love how Wing Madness staff is always giving you free wing samples to try the different sauces while you are waiting for your order. So far I haven't found any that I haven't liked (although I've never tried the steamy caliente- I have a feeling that that one would probably not be my cup of tea- I say a grown man cry one day when he got a steamy caliente wing sample!).

I'm gonna leave the investigating and the speculation of what happened, and all the woulda-coulda-shoulda's to the police and to the professionals (and I suggest you do to)- in the case of Wing Madness, the only expert opinion that I can render is that their food is BANGING!!

I for one will continue to get my freshly prepared wings and light healthy signature salads from the only place in New Haven that knows how to do it right- Wing Madness!

Posted by: Fedupwithliberals | December 8, 2008 5:55 AM

EDUARD_H

CAP had summed up the mentality of people like STREEVER quite nicely in a Nov 2 response to one of my entries on the story of Paul Bass being mugged:

"You have to understand the liberal pride - liberals are so taken with their sense of themselves as enlightened, progressive thinkers when it comes to social policy and the criminal class, they will take a knife to the throat or a bullet to their wife's head and still never admit that they were wrong."

As far as I'm concerned, Liberalism is a mental disease!

Posted by: LastStraw | December 8, 2008 10:18 PM

"I'm interested in hearing how there will be less gun control and less expensive ammunition." -Chris

Bullet control.
With moronic and ill-informed decisions to codestamp bullets, they will drive the price of existing ammunition down, while we "flush" the system of non-stamped bullets. If the codestamped bullets even reach the market, safety experts will decry their use and manufacture and the laws will be revised. We'll get something more common-sensicle (yep, I invented that word) like having your ID and permit logged each time you purchase ammo --not really a big deal, esp. if you make your own.
As for actual "gun control", while it was a big Demo-push in the late 80's into the 90's, it really hasn't been (contrary to NRA propaganda) since. That's a fast path to no more rural votes.

"and most of the people who talk big on this site about guns really are just wannabe john waynes--why?" -David "East Lyme" Streever

Well, Dave, that's because the characters John Wayne played could walk freely through the streets of [insert rough and tumble town here] without fear. In his best moments, he didn't even need the gun.
If you should take anything from this story, David, it's that the criminals are going to start thinking twice about robbery in "da hood" and focus their efforts on neighborhoods with easier targets and less John Waynes, say, East Rock. You better stash that expensive road bike for a while and start riding around on the beater fixie just in case.

"It must be a considerable tease to have such a powerful device and never be able to use it." -Bike New Haven Bill

Not really. The most basic of rule of gun ownership is that the gun is never used in public. The gun only comes out when the situation is so dire that you are willing to go to jail (or die) for breaking the "rules".

Posted by: Josh Smith | December 9, 2008 3:56 PM

I think it's great that someone stood up to the criminals, and that's coming from a left-leaning libertarian. If one of those forty bullets had hit bystanders, obviously it wouldn't have been great, but it seems someone was following one of the most important things to keep in mind when firing a gun -- always know what's beyond your target. Good job. I say kudos to Wing Madness' owners for defending a helpless victim. I just wish they would've killed the robbers. That would have been poetic justice -- go in and terrorize someone and psychologically hurt them for the rest of their life just so you can get money to shove drugs up your nose later that night, and bam! -- you get to eat a lead sandwich. Man, that would've been great. I'm sorry if that offends you, but I have very little sympathy for people who are willing to pull a gun on an innocent person for their own personal gain. They're worse than terrorists who strap bombs to themselves, because at least the suicide bombers have the decency to remove themselves from the world and accept the consequences after their crime is done.

Posted by: Streever | December 10, 2008 12:47 AM

LastStraw,

I'm not from East Lyme and have never lived there. Great job with google???

Really?
The criminals will move to East Rock?

That's funny,
seems they are pretty happy in the hill, where someone else was just shot

Look people,
the problem with your neighborhoods are all the guns

We don't have all these shootings in East Rock.

Wonder why.

V:
My whole attitude needs to change?
Explain why, precisely. Because you disagree?

Yes, I'm questioning Dexter's honesty on this: and I do question the honesty of people in East Rock who inflate our crime statistics, too, and I do so frequently, and in public, on legal records, at public meetings.

None of you come to meetings: none of you work to change our city: none of you matter.

All you are, is anonymous internet whiners.

I'm the arrogant jerk who actually shows up & does something. & yes, I was the 2nd person to comment, on 40 rounds fired unsuccesfully.

People who can't hit the target need to get some practice in on the firing range. that is true. That's verified. Why they shot isn't.

Learn how to shoot a gun before you try to take someone else's life.

Don't worry, I'll mind my business over here in "East Lyme" (AKA East Rock, AKA The Hill for 2.5 years before that, AKA Chester before then). You all just learn how to actually behave in public, come out, & do something meaningful when you are able to.

Posted by: KLSTRPHK | December 10, 2008 2:20 PM

Streever bitches: "None of you come to meetings, none of you work to change our city, none of you matter".

We contribute to our city without the need to play 'king of the NHI sandbox' like you.

Posted by: Edward_H | December 11, 2008 10:28 PM

AnotherBill

Thanks for the response. But the very process of obtaining your permit requires at minimum one trip out of New Haven. To make an assumption of my own this would mean most permit owners have the means to travel outside of New Haven to various shooting ranges. Why would someone be wiling to travel to obtain their permit yet not be willing to travel to practice?

Fedupwithliberals

I remember CAP's response in that thread you mentioned. Personally I don't think many of today's liberals would take a knife to the throat or a bullet to their wife's head . Liberals today rarely ,if ever, have the courage to make personal sacrifices. A few examples:

Obama and his wife tell children that they should seek to give back to the community but percentage wise the Obama's gave very little to charity until Obama decided to run for president.

Al Gore constantly shoves his climate change agenda down the throats of the public but until recently George Bush's ranch was more eco friendly than Gore's mansion. One would think with all the money he made from inventing the Internet he would have a more environment friendly house.

I could get into all of the Hollywood elite who cry about Global warming yet drive around in SUV's but I would probably run out of space.

And the great all powerful mind reader Streever says:

I'd rather a store owner lose the 100 bucks in their register instead of having 40 rounds fired in East Rock.

Notice he does not say "I would rather lose 100 bucks than have 40 rounds fired in East Rock" nor does he say " I would rather take a bullet to the temple than have 40 rounds fired in East Rock." As long as someone else's money or life is on the line he is quite happy.

Streever

I'm the arrogant jerk

At least we agree on one thing.

None of you come to meetings: none of you work to change our city: none of you matter.

All you are, is anonymous internet whiners.

Again I really have to wonder how you are able to ascertain the actions or non-actions of anonymous people on the Internet? Does the ability to ride a unicycle grant you the ability to read minds over the internet? If so you really should be working for eharmony.com or some other dating sight. You could rake in millions. But rather than continue to rake you over the coals for such a stupid statement I will issue you a challenge. Prove that I as an anonymous internet whiner:

a) Does not come to any meetings
b) Does not work to change New haven
c) Does not matter

Prove any one of the above statements and I will donate $100 to your favorite charity.

Posted by: WHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | December 17, 2008 9:34 PM

First of all any respectable person within a community and a successful provider to society would NEVER want anyone to be shot or held at gun point.

Of all that I read in the comment section of this article, I have to enlighten you...

Dexter Jones is and has always been a self engaging, broke materialistic guy without his own who ONLY does the bare minimum for anyone (incl his 8 kids).

No one has control of what they say and do, but we all pay - either directly or indirectly. This was punishment for him - a true eye opener.

No it isn't condoned but is an opportunity for reflection. What changes will he make in his life, what positive community contributions will he provide - even though he lives in Hamden. While he says isn't one of the people afraid of the you - that's not true - he won't even live in that community. He is just like the rest of the business owners - leaves before dusk.

So the statement made by CedarHillResident,
"He did fire them! He had a semi automatic with a clip. the kid had revolvers." is definitely NOT true. First of all he is a B#%^ch w/no skillz and second of all IF that were the case, he would have shot someone. Only real concern to him is his truck!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: john | December 20, 2008 9:52 PM

wing madness good job we need more guys like u all. i like what u are do serving good food the wings are great the best i have.the word of god say a thieves come to steal rob and destroy we dont need guy like this in our world going around robing people i hope the thieves go to jail for a long time.