New Haven Independent

Posted by: fly on the wall | January 9, 2009 8:21 PM

I bet the city underestimated that firefighters are not only the bravest at fighting fire but also the bravest at fighting city hall!!

Posted by: lance | January 9, 2009 10:02 PM

Fight the power!

Posted by: Walt | January 10, 2009 3:15 PM

No insult to current firefighter leaders, but the City policy of promoting the dumbest to the best positions is bound to result in a pretty lousy Department.

Next time around the City's policy will not even allow a question like "Have you ever been convicted of Arson?" on the application

"Hire and promote the best without regard to race" is the only sensible and fair policy. Hopefully the Supremes will agree.

Posted by: Westviller | January 10, 2009 8:06 PM

Walt is correct by his comment but little does he realize that the City has two standards for applicants with criminal history - one for PD and another for FD with the fire applicants having limited restrictions so those with criminal histories can become firefighters. Don't both of these department protect the public? Shouldn't they have the same standards? And finally, holding a college degree seems to be the basics for becoming a fire chief today so why doesn't the City follow suit (no pun intended)?

Posted by: Eileen | January 11, 2009 9:42 AM

For many years, politics has ruled the hiring and promotional practices of this city. The mayor has lost many law suits because of his strong-armed, butt kissing politics, costing tax payers millions of dollars. When will the residents wake up and put an end to this reign of mismanagement... and to think John wanted to be governor!

Posted by: jojo | January 11, 2009 12:34 PM

Westviller you cant have a criminal record to become a firefighter..where did u get that info?

Posted by: yeswecan | January 12, 2009 12:35 AM

>

this occured a few years back. is there any evidence that our current fire department is a lousy one?

for years, in order to be a cop or firefirefighter, you had to be related to someone who already worked in city hall, someone in either of these departments, or some big wig in the union. these connections were not likely to be black.

now that the mayor is making an effort to diversify these departments, everyone wants to pretend that the hiring and promotion of whites have been purely merit based. Typically those making hiring decisions hire based on "fit"-largely people they are comfortable with. There are some proud proponents of this approach in city hall to this day.

i wish there was as much of an uproar where there is legacy discrimination that all to often benefits whites. ...

Posted by: jojo your wrong | January 12, 2009 12:37 AM

Jojo, you are mistaken, as the recent change to civil service rules, a criminal record does not exclude you from fire department recruitment.

It is a disgrace to the badge. Also the new block the box campaign by the mayor will make it even easier for those convicted of crimes to get on the job.

This issue however is separate from what the firefighters are seeking from the Justices and we should try and stay on point.

Posted by: Walt | January 12, 2009 10:07 AM

Am I dense, or does the poetic posting above, on this topic, make little or no sense?

Posted by: Rizzo | January 12, 2009 11:47 AM

To "yes we can" - the notion that blacks have been discriminated against in civil service exams is garbage. "yes you can" - you only have to open up a damn book and study like everybody else and you'll get the promotion - it's that simple. But you want the jobs without putting in the work, study and investment that the successful candidates did - and you are whining because your jobs welfare program is coming to an end.

Posted by: Walt | January 12, 2009 1:15 PM

By poetic posting, I refer to the
"The Fire Next Time" shown above this topic, on the left of the index, and I think. supposed to relate to this topic re the firefighters,

Can anyone explain its meaning?

Posted by: JAK | January 12, 2009 3:49 PM

Walt, it seems to me that the piece is saying that there are complexities found in simple symbolic assumptions, i.e. that while Thanksgiving is a time to be thankful that we live in a prosperous country in which U.S. citizens enjoy unparalleled freedom, it could also be a time of mourning and repentance for the slaughter of the indigenous native-american population that the lived here. (Paved over "blood-soaked" land)

I think that the author is saying that the applied notions of "fairness" and "discrimination" are found in the eye of the beholder. Provocative.

Posted by: Common Sense | January 12, 2009 6:56 PM

Right from the beginning the actions of the Civil Service Commission were suspect when the vote to certify the NHFD Lieutenant and Captain promotional list resulted with two commissioners voting to certify the list and two others voting not to. A fifth commissioner did not vote. Anyone that wants to read all the facts can judge for themselves what these twenty brave and courageous firefighters and officers have gone through. Log on to www.newhaven20.com and read the facts.

Posted by: Walt | January 13, 2009 10:09 AM

JAK

Thanks for explanation. Still do not get it,but may be closer.

COMMON SENSE

Thanks for reference.

No legal fees required, they say. Generous attorneys (Never thought I would have occasion to say something like that).

They are looking for donations to pay extensive court fees, printing etc.

Would like to donate in memory of a New Haven firefighter/friend but do not see how to do so on the site.

Can you advise me?

Thanks

Posted by: nh20 | January 13, 2009 3:29 PM

Donations can be made to the New Haven 20 Firefighters Legal Defense Fund online at www.newhaven20.com using a secure donate link in the left hand column. Or email webmaster@newhaven20.com for address to send a check. Thanks For The Support!

Posted by: Common Sense | January 13, 2009 5:21 PM

Walt, you can email webmaster@newhaven20.com with your desire to make a contribution in memory of a deceased New Haven Firefighter. I'm sure you will receive a reply as to where to send your check. A nice gesture to honor a deceased firefighter.

Posted by: Walt | January 13, 2009 6:35 PM

Thanks to both.

Have tried webmaster contact and hopefully will receive reply.

Listing of snailmail address on the website would be good for other folks like me who do not like to give credit card info on the internet,

Posted by: Walt | January 15, 2009 7:24 AM

Correct new snailmail address is

New Haven 29 Firefighters

P.O. Box 283

Northford, CT 06472

Checks to New Haven 20

Posted by: black fire fighter | March 16, 2009 12:09 AM

It is so obvious,based on the comments submitted thus far,that there is a need for minority protection in the work force. To make subjective statements or other assumptions shows a lack of intelligence. 45 years ago laws were written to combat the self righteous motivations of those who boast racial superiority with an arrogant air of entitlement. For the New Haven 20; The city of New Haven would have been guilty of exclusionary practices only if the test was certified. It seems like you are okay with that. The "good ole boy network" is a dangerous and devicive fraternity. I hope and pray that the courts see through your erronious claims and uphold the wisdom and spirit of the rulings as they stand. The City of New Haven is under attack by a group of guys who do not live in its community,care nothing about its community, but benefit from its employment. This group of guys have a history of combating and thwarting any attempts the department makes at advancing all of its members. If people were really concerned they would show support for an amendment that promotes fair practices rather than the selfish claims of racially biased indivduals who are blinded by a decision that the don't like.

Posted by: newsjunkie | April 3, 2009 9:54 PM

Has a white person has ever sued the NBA WBA for discrimation? I don't think so. Employers should hire the most qualified peron period. If that means hiring 90% blacks to fill the basketball team- great. If that means hiring 90% whites on hte the same should hold true. Anyone can excel if they are willing to put in the hard work or crack open the books. Our new President is a great example. Let's encourage hard work and education not laziness and lawsuits.

Look at this way. If you found out you had a brain tumor tomorrow; would you want the doctor who studied and got a 4.0 GPA or the doctor who got passed along grade to grade with a 2.75 GPA just because of his ethnicity?
Wake Up America.

"Political Correctness is the Science of Stupidity."