New Haven Independent

Posted by: Streever | January 22, 2009 5:15 PM

I hope this all works out--very nice plans!

Posted by: Alphonse Credenza | January 22, 2009 5:32 PM

More public money for stupid projects. Only government wants to put streetcars back on New Haven streets after they were removed over 60 years ago. No private business would support such an initiative, because 1) it would never cost only $20 MM and 2) it would never bring about the imagined benefits. $20 million should be returned to the taxpayer.

Posted by: David Backeberg | January 22, 2009 5:34 PM

Awesome ideas. It would be great to be able to direct Congress money to undo the damage caused by "revitalization" when 34 went in originally. Normal street grids in that part of downtown would be a welcome change. And it would be so cool to have electric trolleys in New Haven again.

Posted by: norton street | January 22, 2009 5:53 PM

evertything in the second bullet point sounds great, those are very important changes that need to happen. rail systems will be vital to the cities growth in the next 25 years. they should extend from woodbridge to east haven along whalley and fountain. and they should extend from west haven to hamden along kimberly ave to howard to howe to dixwell. and along state street. and after everyone realizes how successful that is we can expand from that and cars with be a thing of the past, accept from the occasional zip car people will rent.

Posted by: norton street | January 22, 2009 6:09 PM

alphonse credenza how about you sell your car and use public transportation, a bike or your legs. that will save you an extraordinary amount of money way more than the government will ever send back to you.

Posted by: Streever | January 22, 2009 6:36 PM

sounds like alphonse credenza is the one begging for a hand out!
all-phoney,
do you seriously doubt the value of turning route 34 into a neighborhood?

do you have any idea what led to the growth of "The Hill" as an underperforming neighborhood? Do you know what happened to the strong jewish population (and the entire neighborhoods), the bakeries, and commerce in the area now occupied by route 34?

Do you have any idea what highway expansion has done in this city,
have you looked at any of the history behind these projects,
and the neighborhoods they destroyed?

without a trace, whole neighborhoods are missing

It seems to me an unimaginably smart move by the Mayor is to put neighborhoods back in those areas,
improve the value of the city,
& increase our AMOUNT of taxable property,
so everyone can pay less & we can have an improved city overall

Please do some research on these specific issues--as they pertain to this city--before making silly comments.

Posted by: Your Tax Dollars at Work | January 22, 2009 7:15 PM

Great program! I sincerely hope we can get all or some of these important city-based, "green" projects

Posted by: anon | January 22, 2009 8:29 PM

http://bikeathens.blogspot.com/2009/01/good-ideas-for-stimulus-plan.html

we need short blocks, reconnected neighborhoods - for a variety of reasons, small, walkable blocks and streets would do more for the economy than any other use of money.

can the streetcars, use the money to divide up places like lower chapel street into smaller blocks (like in the area around yale) instead. before worrying about the route 34 chasm/abyss, turn state street (currently a small highway dividing downtown and wooster sqa) back into a neighborhood.

Posted by: City Hall Watch | January 22, 2009 10:19 PM

$80 million of the $91 million are a complete waste of money - the rest is of dubious value at best. Dodd, Rosa et all should not waste tax money on these projects. Specifically, the 34 corridor dollars and the street car. We had a free trolley that nobody used. It was finally killed off. If the street car was to be activated again, there are operating costs we would incurr and employees, both of which we can't afford.

Secondly, the mayor has had 18 years to stitch the neighborhoods together on the other end of 34 and has failed to do so.

Thirdly, it was tried in Milwaukee and it has not worked, cost the city taxpayers millions, and has not produced much in terms of tax receipts.

The prisoners have been dropped off in New Haven for decades. We do not need a program with staff to handle it. Whatever funds are allocated will be one time revenues and then the burden of keeping it going, will fall on us again.

Where is the long term strategic plan for sustainability without undue negative financial impact on citizens. There needs to be a plan and some thought other than just have meetings with your hand out.

Posted by: dean moriarity | January 22, 2009 11:16 PM

Anyone who believes that an increase in the amount of taxable properties would result in anyone paying less taxes, well, let's just say I want some of what you'e smoking...

Posted by: lauraa | January 23, 2009 8:46 AM

I like all of the programs in theory, except for the firing range. We should be training the cops in using non-violent, community based techniques, not how to kill people.

If streetcars are put in, they should get rid of the busses. They are dirty polluters and aren't that reliable (understandable because of all the traffic). The streetcars should take over the bus routes.

Posted by: nutmeg | January 23, 2009 9:58 AM

alphonse, i completely agree with you. a private business should run the streetcars or the $$ should be returned to us taxpayers. same goes for the $2 billion q-bridge replacement. i'm sure you'll be first in line with me at the toll booth (with a $20 bill in hand) when a private company builds that bridge, right?

Posted by: cedarhillresident | January 23, 2009 10:23 AM

I hope they use the soon to be abandon bus depo on State and James street to house the cars!
http://www.bera.org/images/loitsch-1425-jamesst-small.jpg
Which is still relatively unchanged from trolley days and would be a low cost way of converting a housing center!

But with that said I do support this IDEA. But as with most projects I am concerned. With the money from the feds that is a start but I of course want to know much much more about costs before stamping this with an approval.

Posted by: Erin Sturgis-Pascale | January 23, 2009 12:17 PM

It's too simplistic to do ticket-sales math and say that streetcar investments are not worth the money. The streets and highways that serve our cars have enjoyed enormous subsidies over decades, but have failed to meet, or worked at cross purposes with, a number of other community needs.
Transportation investments should support other public policy goals such as economic development; neighborhood improvements; safety; ensuring access to goods and services for all regardless of age, physical ability, or economic status; congestion management to reduce cost and time losses; air quality improvement; and energy and resource conservation.
Strong political leadership has the capacity to envision the relationship between our streets and other public and private resources. I hope our Congressional leadership will stand by Mayor DeStefano and New Haven to help us rebuild our city's transportation network.

Posted by: robn | January 23, 2009 12:58 PM

Besides the noble cause of reuniting divided city fabric, the basic claim of those who want to demolish the RT 34 Oak Street Connector is that it is underutilized. This premise is completely untrue, as on many occasions I've seen rush hour traffic backed up onto I-91. Demolishing the connector will worsen this and push spillover traffic onto Trumbull St and Willow St exits, hurting East Rock, one of the heaviest tax paying neighborhoods in the city.

THINK ABOUT IT.

Posted by: Alphonse Credenza | January 23, 2009 1:52 PM

Here is another ad-hominem written by Streever:

"sounds like alphonse credenza is the one begging for a hand out!
all-phoney,"

Would you please remove his post and warn him again against writing these personal comments?

Posted by: jdavis | January 23, 2009 1:57 PM

Why not make it free! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAX_Light_Rail
I know the trolly didnt make it and it was free, but if it does replace the bus system then it would get much more use. In portland it is free to use within a certain area [mainly downtown] and it is widely used. This could be extremely helpful in reducing traffic, parking congestion, and increasing foot traffic with ease of getting down town. It could also make things much easier to get to and more willing to make the effort if the fare was free.

Posted by: Alphonse Credenza | January 23, 2009 2:06 PM

Hooray for City Hall Watch!

Dreams of neighborhoods destroyed. Streever, I'll bet you weren't even born at the time Dick Lee destroyed those decrepit neighborhoods.

My family lived in those Jewish neighborhoods you claim were so marvelous -- Sylvan Avenue, Legion Avenue and beyond. I remember them well. They might have been safe and clean in the 1930s, but by the 1950s, Jews were moving out. In the 1960s, crime rose and the streets were littered. And is there no desire of current residents to improve their communities on their own? Complete reliance upon the government? What about their own initiative?

As a group, Jews forsook their communal New Haven heritage -- Ticotsky's, M & T, the old shul, etc. -- for Westville, Woodbridge and Orange on their own terms, not because the City of New Haven brought down a few city blocks. They were moving up and did not wish to stay.

Posted by: KD | January 23, 2009 2:13 PM

"Only government wants to put streetcars back on New Haven streets..."

Alphonse, I want to put streetcars back on New Haven streets, and I'm not government.

Posted by: Dave | January 23, 2009 2:59 PM

I like the idea of improving mass transit within New Haven... Trollies may well be a good idea! However, I'm not so sure that buses can't be upgraded to serve the same purpose. There is technology that is out there that will for all intent and purpose "turn a bus into a trolly". Embedding a "laser trail" into the road.

I strongly believe that the ENTIRE mass transit system needs to operate on a 24 hour, 365.25 days per year to get the ridership that it needs.

Too many people have to worry about the schedule of mass transit in order to use it in a worry free manner. I think that if anyone can hop on a local city transit vehicle (trolly or bus) ANY TIME and know that he/she can return ANY TIME will make the biggest difference to the mass transit. This would also apply to getting to NYC or Boston. It's pretty silly that we need a schedule for either. Why isn't the schedule every hour 24hrs. a day to either NYC or Boston? If it's every hour 24hrs. a day no one would really need to worry about... "If I use mass transit how will I get back?".

I strongly believe that the first and most important money needs to go into making the entire mass transit system work 24hrs. a day 365.25 days per year.

I think that if you look at the history of "Detroit" and mass transit you will find that the first attack on mass transit was to it's 24hr/365.25day scheduling. As this was the quickest and best way to destroy mass transit use in favor of "big iron from detroit". Detroit, at that time was beginning to get "money to burn" and if subterfuge failed, many times they just purchased the mass transit company and buried it. I add this only because there seem to be quite a few people that have forgotten history and don't remember what destroyed mass transit in this country. This is not theoretical... It is very true that Detroit had a VERY powerful hand in mass transits destruction all accross America. Now, of course, Detroit needs us to bail them out!

Posted by: Pedro | January 23, 2009 3:07 PM

Robn, I agree that the connector is definitely well-utilized. I think that the theory is that the whole area can be better "highwayed" (for lack of a better term) so that the grid takes care of the additional traffic.

The way it works now, you concentrate all rush hour traffic right into one connector. If you managed to spread it out and have it "filter" into the grid, the overall massive traffic effect might be mitigated.

I'm a huge fan of redeveloping the 34 area, and also the bulldozed State Street area.
I've always though that narrowing state street might actually be the first place to go, since it would be far cheaper to turn the road into a 4 lane, no median road, and then open all the (now larger) lots on the railroad side to development.It would go a long way to connecting the Wooster Square/Lower Grand/Lyon/William street area into the city.

Posted by: stptia | January 23, 2009 3:42 PM

Calling this 20 million light rail trolley car system "a system" is false advertising. It's not a system it's one line! (Also in my mind Science Park = Yale = why are we building a trolley line for the Elis that have an entire fleet of their own buses?)

Personally I'd like to see a bus that runs through Westville after 7:30pm at night first if we are talking mass transit.

RE the buses: it doesn't seem like the buses are full at this point. Why do we need a light rail cluttering up the streets and forcing more bikers onto sidewalks. ;-0

Our powers that are should be able to do better than this.

Posted by: FacChek | January 23, 2009 4:47 PM

Isn't it abundantly and obnoxiously clear how the Mayor almost never proposes infrastructure improvements out-side of the central down-town area??(with the possible exception of Alderwoman Erin Sturgis-Pascale's area, which explains her... "I second it") comments above.

The Mayors new punch list.. alias: - Better known as "connecting the neighborhoods".

1. $20 million to build an electric streetcar system on four miles of rail to be laid from Science Hill to downtown, then down Church Street to the train station; with a possible future link to Hamden.

2. $60 million to reconfigure downtown's roads and reconnect the central business district to the Hill neighborhood, Union Station, and the harbor.

3.$6.5 million from the Department of Homeland Security to build a new firing range

4. $4.6 million from the Commerce, Justice, Science Appropriations Bill for anti-violence initiatives such as the street outreach workers program and a pending prison reentry effort.
( this one is a real thud...

All these proposals will accomplish is to add to the city's bond debt which now exceeds 750M.

Rejoice in the fact that these proposals, as the mayor's knows well are; Dead On Arrival.
Q:
Then why? one would ask is the reason for the fanfare.
A:
Delusion and deception my dear Watson!!

Watch'em City Hall watch.

Posted by: robn | January 23, 2009 6:35 PM

I wish that the mayor could make our taxes go down.

Posted by: DingDong | January 24, 2009 1:06 PM

This seems like a great wish list. It shows a firm commitment to making New Haven a real city, with greater areas accessible by quality mass transit that will help grow the tax base and remove parking lots and other non-revenue producing junk. This worked well for many other cities of New Haven's size (compare for example Kenosha, Wisc., a post-industrial city at the end of the commuter rail line from Chicago http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcars_in_Kenosha,_Wisconsin)

I hope he can pull it off.

Posted by: City Hall Watch | January 24, 2009 1:10 PM

Erin Sturgis-Pascale:

"Ticket-sales math?" What's that? Ridership? Actual useage? Good god almighty, why would anybody be concerned about a 20 million dollar investment that people won't ride?

"Cars have enjoyed enormous subsidies over the years..." Actually, Erin, the subsidies to which you referr have mostly been paid for by cars and trucks who use the highways and roadways through gas taxes - federal and state. In Connecticut we pay two gas taxes to the tune of about $300 million a year. Since the state only uses $150 million a year in roads, bridges and subsidies for roads and bridges in towns and cities like New Haven, the other $150 million goes where? You guessed correctly - the general fund. Out of that general fund and the gas taxes it includes, pays ECS funding for schools, pays PILOT and more to local communities.

So essentially, Erin, you have it just about backwards - drivers have been subsidizing all kinds of community services for decades.

Having said that, all the rest of the undefined, unaccountable and untrackable benefits you list as reasons why to support a trolley system in New Haven and the associated cost of it to New Haven taxpayers, need serious documentation and support. Fuzzy, feel good slogans and reasoning from some special interst group or a marketing brochure isn't good enough. Just thinking stuff up that sounds good because City Hall thinks it can get the money is not good enough either.

Before city taxpayers, the BOA or anybody else blindly follows DeStefano down yet another huge rat hole mindless big money spending on trolleys, demolishing 34 and the like with promises that somebody else will pay most of the cost (schools), these plans need to be thoroughly and completely vetted, planned out, financed and a complete community benefit plan developed with hard facts, figures and deliverables with deadlines. Showing up in DC and waving around half baked ideas with little or no planning, no public hearings, no thought process whatsover, is why we are in the financial trouble we are.

And no, that one public event with the former and disgraced mayor of Milwaukee doesn't count. If anybody had actually vetted what he proffered, one would have easily found out most of what he said was untrue, overrated and grossly exaggerated especially including all the rhetoric about "economic development" and tax receipts.

And for the record folks, it's high time we started defining economic development as more than a new building. Economic development should mean sustainable jobs, new jobs, quality employment for New Haven citizens (not kitchen or wait staff jobs on Chapel, College and Crown). Real economic development aside from YNHH and Yale has been stagnant and in decline in New Haven for more than a decade.

The only question for voters and taxpayers should be: Are we better off today than last year, than 5 years ago? Crime, poverty, housing, employment, graduation rates better? The answer is no. Maybe it's time for somebody at City Hall to focus on the basics. You're practicing your dance steps while the city burns.

Posted by: DingDong | January 25, 2009 12:34 AM

Looks like we aren't the only ones looking for a streetcar:

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/ci_11547657

Posted by: robn | January 25, 2009 2:02 PM

CHW,

You're not counting federal road construction and maintainence funding which comes from everybody's taxes.

Posted by: Alphonse Credenza | January 26, 2009 10:36 AM

A Streetcar Named Desire...

Posted by: Rick Gustafson | January 29, 2009 9:53 AM

I read with great interest that Mayor Stefano is supporting a streetcar in New Haven. I am Executive Director of the Portland Streetcar in Portland, Oregon. We built a modern streetcar in Portland in our downtown which now travels 4 miles. The redevelopment along our line is absolutely phenomenal. Since 1999 when the project announced, we have experienced $3.5 billion in private investment within 750 feet of the streetcar line. In fact, over 50% of all the building value in our central city has been built within 250 feet of the line since 1997. Developers built at much higher densities when they had the confidence that their buildings would have high quality transit access.

We have proposed extending the line 3.3 miles to our eastside and have an application to the Federal Transit Administration for $75 million to help fund the project through FTA Small Starts similar to what Mayor Steephano has proposed.

There are over 80 cities in the US that looking to build a streetcar as part of their urban redevelopment. The Community Streetcar Coalition includes many of these cities and transit districts.

I am proud of New Haven and their Mayor. I attended Yale during the Mayor Dick Lee period and the urban removal program. I returned to my home in Portland and have been engaged seriously in transportation and development in Oregon since.

I would love to help New Haven with this.

Rick Gustafson
Yale, Class of 69

Posted by: DAFeder | January 30, 2009 9:04 PM

I think the Portland model sounds great -- and we could sure use it. But wouldn't we be better off with a monorail, like Ogdenville, North Haverbrook, and Brockway?

David