New Haven Independent

Posted by: hdavid | January 6, 2009 8:33 AM

Does anyone really believe their "airport and other operating revenue" will increase by 42% ($333K) Of this $100K is footnoted as being a transfer from the Capital account. Why not just shift more money around to cover the shortfall!!! Better yet, why not just charge private plane operators an additional landing fee to save the taxpayer.

How can anyone believe that their revenue will even be what they project given the state of the economy??

And isn't it high time we had a legal opinion as to whether this so called $2 million charge on closure is more than a figment of someone's imagination?? As I understand it, no one is seriously suggesting shutting down the airport. We are asking that the airport continue to be used for what it now does -- 90% plus of all flights are private planes -- but add a small fee to cover the shortfall in costs. We once estimated this fee to be about $12/flight, but this number may be outdated based on more recent flight data.

Perhaps now is the time to eliminate the subsidy altogether??

harry

Posted by: cedarhillresident | January 6, 2009 8:57 AM

Why even cash my paycheck anymore???!!!!!
I might as well sign the whole freaken thing over to the city of NEW HAVEN! WTF and it is not just the airport it is the trucking company ect.
Johnny you can NOT DO A MILL RATE INCREASE on top of the phase in...you should be freezing the dam phase in as well!! EVERYONE MOST TIGHTEN THE BELT!! The residents can not AFFORD IT FOR GOD SAKES!!!!!!!!

Posted by: JackNH | January 6, 2009 9:39 AM

It's painful watching Tweed die this slow death. Kill it off now-- Bradley is only an hour away. We can't afford this, and many other, subsidies.

Posted by: Josh Smith | January 6, 2009 10:09 AM

I know I've argued in favor of Tweed's expansion, but perhaps rather than investing in Tweed for passenger service, New Haven should instead focus on freight/cargo only at Tweed, and invest in getting a rail link directly to Bradley via Amtrak. People could take Metro-North or Shore Line East to Union Station and then take a train to the terminals at Bradley once the tracks are built to that airport, just like it works in Philadelphia. I took the train to the airport in Philly a couple times when I lived down there, and it really was a nice experience; it was something CT could replicate, and it's in line with smart growth. We have a working airport -- why duplicate something that's only an hour away (or less by train, possibly)? You know BDL's closer than the NYC airports, door-to-door, that's for sure.

And while I'm on the subject of rail transportation, why don't we get the NH-H-S commuter line crankin' already? That would sure as heck create some more jobs to boost the state's economy!

Posted by: Tim | January 6, 2009 10:19 AM

Why is Tweed still open? Like someone else stated Bradley is only an hour a way, what purpose does this airport serve? Yeah it would be nice to have a city airport but its not worth all the money it is losing.

Posted by: City Hall Watch | January 6, 2009 11:20 AM

Tweed should not get the additional subsidy. We are facing a multi-million budget hole already. Second, the entire operating subsidy should be cut and this revenue should be replaced with user fees on both the business travelers who use Tweed and the private planes who land there. Period. If DeStefano can entertain a Rain Tax on all of us, he should certainly support a user fee for the high end folks who can afford to fly out of there.

Additionally, it's my understanding from several articles in the Register, that the City of New Haven also provides a half million annual contribution to the Tweed Capital Budget. If this is true, it too should be cut.

As for Chrissy B's worry about a Tweed closure, it will not and has never been contemplated that it would. Quit crying wolf. Even if it did, the $2 million budget expenditure would be offset by Tweed revenues, if at that time, it was decided to keep it open. Further, it could well be time to shut it down and absorb the debt/repayment of federal dollars. Perhaps our federal delegation could introduce legislation that would spare us the repayment.

In any case, I'm tired of making any more dependency payments for a service I can't afford to use.

Posted by: Cheri | January 6, 2009 1:18 PM

The comments above are all great. Let Tweed go if it cannot fend for itself...a total waste of tax payers money to give them $160,000 (this could support about 3 families of recently laid off city employees. I'd rather give it to them).

I agree that we should invest in better transportation to Bradley, which is presently surprisingly annoying to get to by public transportation from New Haven.

Posted by: robn | January 6, 2009 1:22 PM

Here's an insane idea. In a neighborhood where Vision Appraisal says that developable land is worth a half million dollars per acre Tweed is sitting on 400 acres. So why don't we sell the land to private developers, use part of the 200 million dollars to build infrastructure for a new neighborhood (adding to the grand list), use part of the $200M to pay off all of our debt and use the remaining to improve infrastructure and reduce taxes?

hmmmm?

Posted by: The Count | January 6, 2009 3:09 PM

Once again the "can't do" mentality permeates the New Haven community. "We lost a civic arena, we lost our minor-league sports teams, what the hell, let's lose the airport, too." Sorry, folks. I don't do pity. Why not place the blame squarely where it belongs: On East Haven pols, past and present who have thwarted any and all attempts to improve Tweed? Am I the only one who remembers Mayor Joe Maturo's failed attempt to get tax money from the on-site crash/fire/rescue station, an unecessary expense that cost New Haven $300,000 in legal fees? And what non-volunteer firehouse pays taxes anyway? Or current mayor April Capne Almon's unsuccessful attempt to stop the safety areas mandated by the Federal Aviation Administration? We could have a great airport on a par with Manchester, New Hampshire's or Providence, Rhode Island's (and please spare me the "they're a state capitol" excuse for the latter). This is the difference between New Haven and other cites. When Cleveland emerged from default in the 1980s, the FIRST thing they did was set about improving Hopkins International Airport. Tweed could be very self-sufficient if East Haven would see it as a bridge instead of a wall. As Churchill once said (quoting Longfellow): "Give us the tools, and we will finish the job."

Posted by: Tweedsupporter | January 6, 2009 3:29 PM

The State should purchase TWEED and operate it along with Bradley. It seems that all the politicians are afraid of East Haven. Why?

New Haven should not have to pay to operate the airport just like they should not support Pilot Pen

Posted by: cedarhillresident | January 6, 2009 4:17 PM

HIP HIP HOORAY!! ROBN totally brilliant!!!!

The Count
I can blame it on East Haven, Guilford and all of the surrounding region that should be helping foot the bill for something they ALL gain from! But what I can not do is continue paying for it. I say we cut the apron strings and it will go under or the region, in fear of losing it starts to chip in! We do have the option of turning it into a non commercial airport. NO give backs on that I am sure. And how many planes besides those really go in and out of tweed. An they say it brings jobs to the people of New Haven?? How many people in the airport beside the very low paying jobs live in New Haven?

Posted by: eastshoreguy | January 6, 2009 4:31 PM

Live too close to the airport and I do not want 747's coming in to land right on top of me and mine. That being said I don't think NH is getting jumbo jets landing here anytime soon so I say keep it open another year or two. The airport seems to have some momentum with the court win against my neighbors over in 'staven. If you have never flown out of Tweed it s worth it - easy i and out. I say keep it for another year.

Posted by: Tweedsupporter | January 6, 2009 5:49 PM

ROBN

do you understand what an economic engine the airport could be? Obviously not. Tweed needs to expand properly. Like I said it should be the STate's responsibility and East Haven should be punished holding up economic development in the area. Do you realize how many more hotels we would have...Ask the Omni or the convention bureau how many conventions we lose because of our air service...Our own home grown SUBWAY doesn't even have their large convention here because of the air service....Encourage your legislators to have the State purchase TWEED and let New Haven off the hook....

Posted by: City Hall Watch | January 6, 2009 5:50 PM

The Count:

Excuse me, but you're not in Kansas anymore; this isn't Cleveland; Tweed is no Hopkins, and the year is 2009 not 1978. And nobody in New Haven who pays extraordinary taxes for an airport we can't use is wanting pity. We want action and an end to dependency payments that benefit the well to do, the business class and others who for a couple of extra bucks each, could easily afford to make Tweed break even. Since Easthaven contributes nothing to airport operational expense, perhaps you could ask your mayor to add a mil or two increase to your local property taxes citywide to help ease our burden. Put your money where your typing fingers are.

Posted by: FacChek | January 6, 2009 9:07 PM

Hold it right there Larson.... and you too Bonanno,
The FACCHECKER is back....

According to the 07/08 budget you received 900K which was susequently reduced by the BOA to 800K, a 100k reduction.

In the original 08/09 budget as approved, the airport was approved at 800K.
In May of 2009 via the Mayor's revised budget the airport was reduced 250k to 550K. The Mayor unilaterally made this decision. You did not offer a rebuttal at that time.

Fast forward to today, according to this article, the Mayor is proposing by way of proxy Chrissy Bonnano, to ask the board to increase the Mayor's unilateral reduction by 160K based on the airports "improvements". REALLY....

Before the airport is considered for an increase in the reduced compliment, the BOA should first consider replacing the following funds cut from:

1. Homeless shelters: $543,989K

2. Small Business administration: $166,495

3. Dept.of Community Services: $282.214

4.Legal services: $30,000

5. Downtown evening soup kitchens $20,000

6.community soup kitchen $20,000

7.Youth at work: $20,000

8. The 27 union employees who were laid- off.

Oh and don't forget, your total funding for 08/09 is:
city bonds: $626,618K
state of CT.:$424,854K
Federal Govt:$10,762,968
City general fund:$550K (after 250K reduction in May 09).
Count it ++++

It would seem to me that the Regional Leadership Council you spoke of and Yale, could well folk over the whole 320K with no problem... Just try!

Now, FacChek that!!!

Posted by: Streever | January 6, 2009 11:13 PM

I'm with the commenters on this one.

No increase in subsidy to Tweed.

Sorry.

Get a new company to lease it.

Sorry, but if you can't even pave roads, & I have to fork over 60 a year in wheel truing fees, I'm not going to back you wasting money on an airport which costs too much for the average New Havener to use.

Let's use our money SMARTLY and put it into travel to Hartford/NYC, where the airports are useful to New Haven citizens.

Better yet,

return the evening soup kitchen, community soup kitchen, and youth at work programs.

Cheaper & more meaningful for a greater percentage of New Haven citizens.

Posted by: City Hall Watch | January 7, 2009 6:30 AM

The bailout request is an unbudgeted expenditure. It should be turned down flat as should any unbudgeted request, especially in these economic times. Otherwise, what's the purpose of a budget?

Posted by: ROBN | January 7, 2009 9:55 AM

TWEEDSUPPORTER,

Do you mean that Tweed could be an engine of economic development like Bradley is for Windsor Locks....or Springfield Mass??? Of course we all know how much those two economies are raging.

Lets face it, ir travel is burdened by ever increasing costs of fossil fuels which will be gone in several decades.

Posted by: TWEEDSUPPORTER | January 7, 2009 10:43 AM

ROBN

Yes Bradley adds quite alot of money to the areas economy which Tweed can do once the runway safety zone is improved on. Tweed will get non stop flights to Florida on ATA or JET BLUE. They will also get flights to Atlanta,(DELTA) Chicago, AMERICAN or UNITED)Detroit (DELTA) and Cleveland.(CONTINENTAL) This of what this will do to New Haven. Yale and major corporations will have conferences here filling up the hotels, rental cars and restaurants. When United flew here from 1990-1994 t hey tool 15 rooms per night at the Holiday Inn (Marriott). With 4 or 5 airlines that could be up to 35 rooms per night. Ask te hotels if they would like this added capacity. Ask the Marriott if they want 30 rooms guaranteed. Ask RObinson Aviation if they'd like to seel fuel to the airlines. What about the taxi cabs and the car rentals? The restaurants would be full. Tweed can generate 500,000 passengers a year. How wonderful when out of towners fly to TWEED...

Don't be so shortsided, it's businesses that keep the economy flowing and TWEED NEW HAVEN AIRPORT is the most underutilized airport in the entire country

Posted by: robn | January 7, 2009 11:57 AM

TWEEDSUPPORTER,

United Airlines stopped service becuase of insufficient demand...not too short a runway.

This airport serves a very small constituency, hasn't proven itself to be an economic engine, nor to have the potential to be so and doesn't deserve public support.

Posted by: TWEEDSUPPORTER | January 7, 2009 12:23 PM

ROBN

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. United canceled service to TWEED in 1994 because of the length on the runway and the clear zone. The City of New Haven would not cut the trees on properties on Tweed's approach thereby United had to cancel many flights when the weather was down.

Back in 1990 UNited had 3 flights to Chicago and they were very successful but due to the runway constraints, service became unreliable and passengers migrated to other airports. Many a flight was filled with wealthy passengers from Fairfield County who parked their cars in the lots and ate at the restaurant which added revenue to the airport and the community...Hertz did on average of 14 cars for each United arrival,

Ed Cleary was United's Manager in New Haven and he made that quite clear when they announced their departure that left because of these problems.

That was 1994 and now we have Regional jets that are quiet and can serve many cities with frequency..IN the 1980's TWEED had 3 airlines and 30 departures a day with props. Now they can be jets and connect to the world....

Posted by: robn | January 7, 2009 1:24 PM

TS,

United consistantly lost money over 6 years and ended up $12M in the red. The runways aren't the problem, the business model and this location is.

Posted by: Tweedsupporter | January 7, 2009 2:50 PM

ROBN

Where do you get the idea that the business model doesn't work? You are shortsited and need hard facts. New Haven has 2 million enplanements which are all leaked to other airports. TWEED is a jewel which finally will be able to perform given the runway improvements and New Haven will thrive..

Regarding the location, you are WRONG again. 85,000 cars pass by Interstate 95 everyday and Southwest was aware of TWEED's potential and visited TWEED about 10 years ago. UNfortunatley we had no infrastructure and they passed.

Businesses in New Haven will thrive with TWEED. It will happen

Posted by: cedarhillresident | January 7, 2009 2:53 PM

TWEEDSUPPORTER
just a side note.
A friend has a house near the airport. Ever other year for a very long time they capped her trees and if she lets them take one down they pay her a nice little bit of change and replace it with a slow growing one and cut and stack it for fire wood. So trees could not of been the problem.

Posted by: TWEEDSUPPORTER | January 7, 2009 3:09 PM

CEDARHILL

The trees were one of the problems. Just because one neighbor cuts the trees that doesn't clear the approach for an incoming 737-300. There were several neighbors that refused.

These East Haven people don't realize that a thriving TWEED airport will increase their property values tremendously.

Posted by: City Hall Watch | January 7, 2009 3:38 PM

Tweedster:

Can I come by your office and get some of that nice ganja you are smoking? My cigars just can't make me see the light the way yours surely must. Tweed's a jewel? New Haven will thrive with Tweed? When Tweed was in its heyday 20 years ago, New Haven wasn't thriving. Across the last 16, it's really fallen out of favor. You are right, 85,000 cars a day pass by Tweed. The operative word is PASS BY. Everything you're talking about is from the 90s. If Tweed had a chance as a commercial airport with 100,000 passengers, it was then. Not now. These safety improvements will be made and my prediction is that there will be no additional airline for any appreciable time. As it has always been. NO MORE MONEY. NO MORE MONEY. NO MORE MONEY. NO MORE MONEY. This is a business class and private plane airport. They should pay to support their hobby and their convenience.

Posted by: robn | January 7, 2009 5:22 PM

TS,

I hear your argument, but my lingering doubt is abased upon something very clear. If the airport has profit potential, then funding for improvements and legal battles would be forthcoming from the airline industry. As it is, they can barely make a profit with record passengers.

Posted by: Lance | January 8, 2009 1:19 PM

They need to expand that airport or get rid of it. I've never found a good price on a flight out of there, nor can I get a direct flight anywhere that I'm interested in going.

Posted by: DingDong | January 8, 2009 10:49 PM

Lance,

That's because you're never going to Philadelphia! (And when I go there I take Amtrak).

Posted by: Suburbanite | January 9, 2009 9:32 AM

Okay...so you want to continue to strangle Tweed, making it impossible to grow back to 1990 levels all the while saving yourselves a few $$ each in taxes. GREAT idea. Go look south to Sikorsky Airport, which is now JUST an airport for private planes. Notice how well Bridgeport is doing? Ever think that maybe if it had a THRIVING airport (like White Plains) it might be doing better?

Go ahead, kill Tweed. You are just hurting yourselves.

Posted by: City Hall Watch | January 9, 2009 10:04 AM

The well to do and business class can pay for what amounts to a private airport. It doesn't deserve or need taxpayer money. Fund it with user fees. If you get another airline in there and offer better deals to normal working families, you can be more profitable or delete the user fees at that time. I just booked three tickets for my family to St. Louis. At Tweed, the cost was $388 per ticket...But, in New York Laguardia, it's $184 roundtrip, non-stop and returning to Bradley. That's a savings of $612 for those three tickets. My cost to drive them there is less than $50 including tolls. If I was traveling with them as I usually do, the savings would be $816. That's why the general public doesn't use Tweed and why it doesn't deserve tax revenues from the general public either.

Posted by: Josh Smith | January 9, 2009 12:25 PM

Well said, City Hall Watch. My thoughts exactly. Why use Tweed when it's like $600 roundtrip compared to Bradley at half the price or lower? Tweed should be a freight airport and we should divert funds from there to improving rail lines and constructing a commuter rail link to Bradley, Hartford, and Springfield (in the style of Philly's SEPTA or Boston's MBTA).

Posted by: Tweedsupporter | January 9, 2009 1:27 PM

As far as airfares go, once Tweed gets 3 or 4 airlines the fares will go down and be comparable to White Plains and better fares than Bradley. This will happen. Jetblue will be extremely cheap to Florida and Continental, Delta and United will match them all. New Haven will thrive with hotel rooms and conventions

Posted by: City Hall Watch | January 9, 2009 1:32 PM

The rail link to Hartford, Bradley and Springfield is long overdue. I commute to Hartford daily - 82 miles round trip. I would gladly take the train. It would save me money; stress and especially on bad weather days or at other times with accidents etc, would save me a lot of time. The state collects almost $300 million in gas taxes,both of them, each year. They only spend $150 million on roads now with the rest going into the black hole known as the general fund. That $150 million should be pulled out of the hole and put to use funding this rail link. It would get cars off the road and be a far better investment for the public.

Posted by: robn | January 10, 2009 10:55 AM

CHW,

Hear Hear.

Ditto on a North South commuter rail from New Haven to Bradley. This would not only feed the airport, but also serve Connecticut commuters very well.

Bradley is about 55 miles up I-91 from New Haven. At $20M/mile, a maglev train right up the median (no emminent domain) would be $1B. This is 7 years of the $150M in excess gas taxes currently not spent on transportation...to look at it another way, its about 6% of our annual state budget.

We can do this and frankly...we're headed towards an electric economy anyway, so why not start now.

Posted by: JOHN | January 10, 2009 11:21 PM

(You Live Near An Airport!)

>"HONEY,LET'S MOVE HERE!! I LOVE THE HOUSE!!!

at the corner a sign pointing to TWEED.
(You Live Near An Airport!)

>"WHAT IS THAT NOISE? .. AAAAARRRGHHH SOO LOUD"

It is called a plane...
(You Live Near An Airport)

>CUT DOWN THE TREES?? THEY ALSO WANT TO EXTEND THE RUNWAY TO MAKE THE AIRPORT MORE SAFE AND ATTRACT NEW CARRIERS AND PASSENGERS?? NO WAY!!!

(You Live Near An Airport)

>AFTER ALL OUR COMBINED EFFORTS TO SHUT THIS AIRPORT DOWN, THEY WANT MONEY TO KEEP THE AIRPORT AFLOAT?? NO WAY!!

(You Live Near An Airport)

>"HONEY,LET'S MOVE TO RI. I SAW A LOVELY HOUSE NEAR TF GREEN AIRPORT."

(You Live Near An Airport!)

YEARS LATER

>" HONEY LOOK AT THIS?? IT SAYS DUE TO LACK OF SAFETY AND OTHER UPGRADES,THEY WERE FORCED TO CLOSE TWEED. IT ALSO SAYS ,AS A RESULT MORE PASSENGERS ARE SUPPORTING NEW YORK AIRPORTS AS WELL AS BRADLEY. HELPING TO INCREASE REVENUE IN THOSE AREAS. LOOK AT THIS ARTICLE? DUE TO INCREASED TRAFFIC ON 95 AND NO LOCAL AIR TRANSPORTATION,NEW HAVEN HAS BECOME UNATTRACTIVE FOR NEW BUSINESSES AS WELL AS ANY POSSIBLE CONVENTION BOOKINGS..........WHAT IS THAT NOISE? ANOTHER PLANE? I READ IN THE PROVIDENCE PAPER THAT CITY OFFICIALS WANT TO ENLARGE THE TERMINAL TO ATTRACT MORE BUSINESS AS WELL AS MORE FLIGHTS..... NO WAY!!!!!

(You Live Near An Airport)

Posted by: robn | January 11, 2009 11:35 AM

You guys who keep mentioning conventions make me laugh. Conventions are held in entertaining places like Las Vegas, New York and Chicago, not places with just airports.

Posted by: steve pappas | January 14, 2009 8:35 AM

The facts about united leaving tweed after 5 years was the limited runway would not allow a full 737 to depart from runway 2.With the obstructions to the north,the pilot had to calculate the available runway length factoring in the passenger load,fuel,wind,and temperature. At times the useable runway lenght was 4700 feet and not the 5600 feet listed on runway 2 and passengers had to be deplaned.United would never had stayed for 5 years unless they felt the airport would improve.I used the service from chicago to tweed and times the airline was asking for volunteers to be put on a later flight due to the plane being full.Delta at times could not depart full and when northwest made 2 proposals,the problem was not being able to depart with full flights.Tweed can be a useful asset to all new haven area residents if allowed to make small improvements.