New Haven Independent

Posted by: Leonidas | February 20, 2009 5:00 PM

The city needs to work with these groups. It is great that people are coming together to do positive things. Why not focus on stopping crime, shootings,etc. Why harass these citizens who are doing positive things on their own time with their own money? If damage to the fields by vendors and illegal parking is a concern, then look into ways to increase parking and ways to make the vendors behave responsibly.

Why is it that we go out of our way (and spend a great deal of time and money) to accommodate people who are grossly irresponsible, to reach out to them, engage them, etc., but penalize people who are doing something positive?

Posted by: jawbone | February 20, 2009 5:17 PM

My guess is that by the end of the weekend this article with have 147 comments easy.

The city should stick with what is does best (turning a blind eye) and let the poor people have their football/soccer. Thats my opinion.

Posted by: What nonsense | February 20, 2009 5:29 PM

This is something the city should be proud of not trying to destroy.

Watch Smuts backtracking within a week. A 20 team league is some 300 players. Then throw in another 100 or so fans. You figure it out. This will piss lots of people off.

Is the city doing the same thing with the softball at Criscuolo park because lord knows they have plenty of vendors and lots of double parking. And plenty of drinking. Same thing over at the softball fields in East Shore. But there they have parking lots. They also don't seem to care when the head of softball for the city (sure they have -- one crazy at that sounds -- drives HIS car all over the grass in the east shore).

But the city built soccer fields in a league format and then did not provide enough parking. You can't park on the Boulevard because it's illegal and you would get killed and the lot gets filled up.

The whole reason these soccer fields are there is because of this league. The city did a great job of fixing up the fields because it used to be that you had to park on the grass since there was no parking lot at all for the first 15 years or so.

Time for Smuts to grow up and stop trying to play tough guy -- remember last time he tried that? They should have found a parking solution as well as a place for vendors and congregating. Any successful soccer league is going to have the same problems there -- insufficient parking and no solution for the community nature of the sport.

As a general rule sports leagues are a good thing. No neighbors around to complain in this location either so this is really about parking on the grass in the end. Would a fence solve the problem or some signs that say $500 fine for parking on the grass?

This is the city's largest adult sports league but because no one at city hall plays in the league (as opposed to the softball league) there is a complete ignorance of what goes on and no relationships to draw on to resolve the matter.

Pretty silly stuff. Maybe it's time some grown ups got involved. Maybe the Mayor should have the leaders of the league and his staff in to work out a solution with consequences. Splitting a league up over multiple locations won't solve the problem and might break up a successful league.

You might expect the Parks Director to do that or maybe the Chief Administrative Officer, but if not then the Mayor can set the tone. Treating adults like children often does not get the result you want Mr. Smuts.

And please stop trying to make it sound like you care about public drinking. All of the city's adult sports leagues have public drinking. And the rugby players who play just down the way bring a big keg to the field as part of their post game ritual.

Posted by: Grow Up!! | February 20, 2009 5:33 PM

The city is being silly.

We pay both of these guys (Smuts and Levine) well over $100,000 a year to run a parks department for us. The people who live here -- not some imaginary people they want to live here. Grow up and solve the problem.

Find a solution for the cars and keep a New Haven institution alive.

Posted by: El Pollo | February 20, 2009 5:45 PM

No, no, no...the vendors aren't illegal, they're just undocumented.

Posted by: Kevin Ewing | February 20, 2009 6:03 PM

First off the park has a name. It is the West River Memorial Park (http://www.lisrc.uconn.edu/coastalaccess/site.asp?siteid=421). The residents of West River have worked closely with the Parks Dept. over the years to upgrade the park and make it into a resource for our community. I love driving by the park and seeing the soccer fields in use. I love seeing all the people enjoying the park.

So I'm glad to see that the issue here is about how the park is being used because it means that the park is in fact being used. The real problem is that there really isn't a safe way to get to the park. I'm afraid to try to cross the Blvd to get there. There is no parking if you drive unless you park illegally on the grounds. And if you park off site you return to the pedestrian safety issue.

A solution is possible and probably not that hard. I can think of several and would be glad to share. The sides will need to stop shouting and start talking for a mutually beneficial resolution.

Posted by: robn | February 20, 2009 6:11 PM

Bust ilegal parkers who damage grass and allow the players to play. Its not like it takes a lot of detective work...they have a game schedule...

Posted by: jackie | February 20, 2009 6:39 PM

Said Mr. Bustos, "You don't understand our culture!"

I am the last person in the world I would expect to say this, but, "our" culture is (at its best/in the ideal) based on logic, rationality, and fairness. Even if imperfect, there is at least an attempt articulated to be fair to everyone. Hence civil rights, however late they came.

But let it be known that it was Mr. Bustos who signposted that there is a cultural divide between the groups he represents and, well, "our" culture. What's the difference? A willingness to play by the rules? A recognition that shared space doesn't mean everyone can do what they want with it?

It's like people who litter. (I understand that that was not an issue in this complant, it's just an analogy.) Litterers look like you're crazy if you point out that they just left trash in a shared, public space. It should be obvious that the "public" in "public spaces" entails a degree of responsibility, not just entitlement to do what you want.

Is littering "a cultural thing" too? That would explain a lot, actually.

Posted by: Jah live | February 20, 2009 7:17 PM

Isn't it better to keep all the drunks in one park ?,I think so or you will be spending money for police at all three park > tink on this. Do not throw your power around the elections are this year

Posted by: ITSOURPUBLICSPACE | February 20, 2009 7:18 PM

BOB LEVINE, HE TAKES THINGS PERSONAL ALL THE TIME HE RULES WITH AN IRON FIST. HE LOVES TO ATTACK THESE GROUPS ALL THE TIME IT MAKE HIM FEEL GOOD.

ROB, YOU DON'T KNOW THE HALF ABOUT BOB YOU SHOULD LOOK INTO HIM AND HIS DEALING WITH FOLKS IN THE COMMUNITY.

ROB, WHATS WRONG WITH SOCIALIZING AT THE GAME hELLO
tHE PARK IS CLEAN BEFORE AND AFTHER THE GAME BY THE PARTICIPANTS. THERE IS NO COMSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL
OR FIGHTS. jUST FAMILIES HAVING FUN. iTS THE PEOPLES PARK NOT BOB'S

Posted by: Easy Way Out | February 20, 2009 8:21 PM

Just get Boise Kimber in one of the teams and there'll be no problemo

Posted by: Chris Kafoglis | February 20, 2009 9:51 PM

The Parks and Rec department has a history of abusing both the soccer fields and the users of the soccer fields in the city. They do not have a clear and transparent system for renting the fields, they do not protect/maintain the fields, and they do not set clear guidelines for parking, vending, police presence, etc. The toll on the fields is a functions of poor planning and lack of maintenance, not the Sunday league matches. Rather than work with the league and create a system of accountability, the city takes the easy way out and shuts them down.

I have had the opportunity to watch Sunday matches on the Boulevard on a number of occasions. The soccer is excellent and the event is a wonderful cultural celebration. Shutting this league down is a travesty.

Posted by: nearsighted | February 20, 2009 10:10 PM

Silly. Work with them on the parking, cite them for the drinking, license and fee the vendors. Rather stupid of the City, really.

Posted by: DingDong | February 20, 2009 10:27 PM

"People parking illegally on the grass." OK fine.

"People drinking alcohol in public." Nothing worse than that! Everyone really should drink behind closed doors. It's much more puritan.

"And unlicensed food vendors operating near the fields." My heavens! Better shut down the whole soccer league.

Posted by: anonymous | February 20, 2009 11:48 PM

The city should be grateful that people are actually using the fields. I have lived in this city for over 35 years. I have always seen soccer games played in that section of town. Its known for it. I have also been on the same field when the New Haven Rugby team plays and they do their own work on those fields. I see drinking and obnoxious behavior from them and their parking all over the grass but has anyone spoken with them? The field is there to be used and if you find that there needs to be more parking then make more. I do not see the city complaining to Yale when they have their Yale v. Harvard games and people park between North Frontage and Legion Ave. as well as all along the soccer and rugby fields. Let it be and move on and go fix bigger problems than the soccer field.

Posted by: Bill | February 21, 2009 7:29 AM

This is short sited and unfair. The city is being lazy, why punish the players for something others are doing. I guess the city would be happier if they joined gangs instead.

Posted by: John | February 21, 2009 9:05 AM

Obey or we will take away the ID program....Watch it Libs, never bite the hand that keeps you in power.....

Posted by: Mister Jones | February 21, 2009 10:04 AM

Foul! The Parks Department should be yellow-carded for this offense. I doubt that this is the only sports league in town where folks drink beer on the sidelines [softball? rugby? golf?] The food vending issue seems like a red herring too. If parking on the grass is the real problem there are ways to deal with it instead of banning the league. I've driven by during matches and everything looked beautiful.

The City should be encouraging and supporting these types of peaceful activities. We've heard no reports of violence, nor of littering. Unless there is more to the story, the Boulevard fields are the perfect location for this league.

Posted by: Warrior princess | February 21, 2009 2:18 PM

Way to go New Haven. Instead of enforcing the rules, disperse the teams and create problems in three other areas of the city. When the city refurbished that park (at great expense) they relocated the teams to other fields in the interim. One of those fields was Kimberly field. For two years the residents whose property abut Kimberly field had to endure screaming and yelling, referee whistles, people grilling food, urinating up against the fences, people trespassing onto our property to retrieve balls kicked over the fences, just to name a few things. It made having a quiet relaxing weekend in your own backyard impossible because there is nothing to absorb any of that noise. During the week the same problems existed to a lesser degree because the people would practice there. The blvd location is perfect for the games because there are no neighbors to be bothered by any of this. The money has already been expended to fix that park specifically for soccer and that is where the league needs to stay. Enforce the existing rules and fine those who don't abide by them. I pay too much in taxes to not be able to enjoy my own home!

Posted by: Wow | February 21, 2009 5:56 PM

Wow.

Doesn't seem like anybody agrees with Smuts and Levine.

Maybe they need someone with a little less ego to step in and resolve this.

Otherwise they look like babies.

Their basic complaint seems to be that the park gets too much use and they don't want to do their jobs.

Is this an election year? Expect this to get resolved.

Posted by: Kathi | February 21, 2009 6:52 PM

People and families pulling together to enjoy their cultures, teaching their children sportsmanship, NOT DOING DRUGS, keeping their bodies in good shape and leading by example!! HOW DARE THEM!! Shut them down now!...City of New Haven needs to shake themselves up and read what they are doing..perhaps that wonderful city has a "shrink" in that white elephant of a building and talk to them....every event no matter where involves traffic...no neighbors to complain and the terrain used for the purpose in which it was developed...bet they pay their taxes!..

Posted by: nfjanette | February 21, 2009 6:58 PM

It's great to see so many people sticking up for the teams using the field. Since these people care so much, surely they will not mind a special tax levied upon them to pay for the damages to the field and the off-duty police officers that should be minding crowds of several hundred people and illegal vendors. Soccer is played by rules - and rules are good. Why is it that this league and it's vocal NHI supporters aren't willing to play by the rules - the rules of law - when it comes to taking responsibility for the use of city property? Pay up to keep the league playing, and everyone can be happy.

Posted by: stptia | February 21, 2009 7:39 PM

Living near these fields I find myself feeling uplifted everytime I drive by on a Sunday afternoon and see the festivites underway. I don't play soccer myself, but i love the fact that there is a culture behind it. It adds to my quality of life here.

Smuts needs to find something else to latch onto with the small amount of time we grossly overpay him to work for us.

Also, I overheard that Levine does not want to allow pinic tables in the parks because they promote sex and drug use.

I thought most of the drug addicts had left the parks claiming that the racket of all the ATVs flying around was wrecking their buzzes?

Posted by: Get Real | February 21, 2009 8:50 PM

Ten years back Levines staff pretend they were cops to haras kids and gays in city parks. They even stole there bikes. Come on Paul. Theres been a wonderful improvement.

Posted by: itsourpublicspace | February 21, 2009 10:54 PM

This group has paid Parks Department over $ 9,000 last year in permits to use the park. Never a police complaint related to games at the park, no neighborhood complaints, they always clean up before and after the games. Also seems to me that unlicences venders is a health department issuse if its food that they are selling not parks department issuse. Bob your laying your fist down to heavey on these folk. Its our park not yours we pay you to maintain them, keep them clean and safe. we don't pay you
to stop folk from using them. You should be figuring out how to get more people to the parks. also you need to do a better job with the kiddie parks. As for the venders there is an oppotunity to licence them. We the Tax payers are telling you to back off. Bob curb your dog.

Posted by: itsourpublicspace | February 21, 2009 10:57 PM

Jackie, when he said understand our culture, he meant sports. don't make a mountain out of it.

Posted by: ROBN | February 22, 2009 9:54 AM

Here's an insane idea. Since the Boulevard is known as one of the most dangerous roads in New Haven anyway, why not constrict the lanes in this particular stretch to traffic calm and provide diagonal parking for use of the park. Its totaly awesome that the park is used so much so lets encourage it. BTW, the park you see is just a portion of what appears to be mostly swamp but is actually a much bigger park designed by Fredrick law Olmstead, Hartfrd native and designer of New York Central Park.

Posted by: juli | February 22, 2009 1:15 PM

"don't establish the
boundaries
first,
the squares, triangles,
boxes
of preconceived
possibility
and then
pour
life into them, trimming
off left-over edges,
ending potential."

-a.r. ammons, american poet

Posted by: itsourpublicspace | February 22, 2009 10:42 PM

The word on the street is that BOB and ROB ARE CALLING IN SICK ON WED.

Posted by: Hood Rebel | February 22, 2009 11:17 PM

Smuts, Levine and Company...

This is absurd. Re-read your comments in this article --out loud-- and maybe you will hear for yourself how ridiculous you sound.

I know things are busy in city-hall with budgets, elections, layoffs etc; and, this seems to be a quick and dirty way to solve this nagging problem.

But you must know that your response cannot possibly be the best model. Work it out y'all!

Posted by: Hey NFJANETTE | February 23, 2009 1:32 AM

NFJANETTE,

Look. As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no accusation that police officers are needed. You have no community complaints. Until a few years ago the only way to play at these fields was to park on the grass as the city had not lot and barely maintained them. The league suffered through that and now the city wants to move them.

It's silly. The league pays for the use of the fields. And the fields are not left covered with trash or anything like that.

This is just grumbling because they don't understand an ethnic soccer league. As someone who used to play in a league that was mostly Italian and Polish league, we did all of the same things. Families came out. We drank a beer after the game.

If the city does not like the unlicensed vendors, that has nothing to do with the league. This is no different than unlicensed vendors coming to any big event. The city can go enforce its vending laws, and a week later the folks will have paid their fees and be licensed vendors. And everyone will be eating safer food.

That Smuts and Levine even bring up the vendors shows how wacky and out of touch they are being. The league has nothing to do with the vendors. Should the league kick out the vendors? Do they have any legal right to do so? On what grounds would they kick out the vendors? Do they have expertise on who can vend what and where and what specific rules they need to follow in terms of food prep?

So why not get some facts before you make noise?

Posted by: Alex | February 23, 2009 2:22 AM

I'm shocked! This is incredible! At a time when we need so many more youth programs they shut this down. How lame and narrow minded and, yes, racist. If this was a white league it would definitely have been handled differently and they would have tried to work with the groups. Everyone needs to stand up for this cause. If this sticks it is a travesty. If this sticks the city is just asking for more youth violence. Provide them parking - yes, narrow the Boulevard to slow traffic and help the refreshment needs. Yes - "You should be figuring out how to get more people to the parks."

Posted by: New_Haven_Resident | February 23, 2009 9:20 AM

This is ridiculous! I have nothing else to say!

Posted by: Streever | February 23, 2009 10:07 AM

I think the city is making a mistake on this. As has been pointed out so many times:
1. Work with them on the parking. There has to be a way to do this.
2. What level of drinking, precisely? Is the issue litter? Have a cop come by. Issue a few tickets. Some people drinking--by all accounts responsibly because no one has brought up any police cases yet--is not really a game breaker.
3. License the vendors. Charge them fees. Get the health department involved.

All this stuff is manageable.... I know it's tough right now with so many other issues, but the citizens of New Haven need to be worked with at times if we are going to have an open, culturally vibrant community.

Posted by: Anon | February 23, 2009 11:20 AM

1.if we re-read the article we find that there will be another league there. That area will not be devoid of soccer.

2.The other league is also run by a Latino.So it can't be a cultural misunderstanding.

3. Traffic calming would be a good idea in that area regardless of this issue.

4.Perhaps there's more to this story...maybe we'll find out on Wednesday.

Posted by: Rob Smuts | February 23, 2009 1:02 PM

I have a couple things to say, that might help give some context on this issue.

First is in response to a lot of the comments that criticize Parks, and Bob Levine in particular. The Parks Dept is functioning with about 60 employees right now, down from 104 eight years ago. For context on that, under the previous administration circa 1990 (when grass uncut, flowers weren't planted, etc), the department had 85. Providing 415,000 recreation slots annually and doing everything else that department does with only 60 people is incredible, and it's due to superb management and 60 really dedicated individuals.

Second, if I came off as a little petulant in my comments, I apologize. It wasn't Melissa twisting my quotes - I'd just gotten out of a budget meeting, and was feeling a little frustrated - no excuse. The civic activity that surrounds this league is really something fantastic. As the organizers and many of the commenters pointed out, having folks come together around positive activities and build social connections is great. But...

But it comes at a cost. The league pays several thousand dollars annually ($7-9,000, I believe), which goes towards maintenance of the fields. This only covers part of the cost of the upkeep, however, and the rest is covered by the Parks Dept. That's fine so far, that's what we do. The problem is that when an activity crosses a threshold in size, you have other costs. The wear and tear to the field from having so many participants and spectators increases the amount of work Parks needs to do to maintain them significantly - and vehicles driving onto the field is a major problem.

When the City permits festivals, parades, and other activities where a large number of people congregate, we require the activity to hire police, provide detailed parking plans, and cover other associated costs. In the past, to encourage these activities, the City would help cover a lot of the police and other costs, but that is something we are backing away from for budgetary reasons (see the articles on the St Patrick's Day Parade). The reason is that we know that when a large number of people gather, there will be parking issues, public order issues, illegal vendors, etc and someone has to face the costs. Public order issues with 20 people are significantly different thatn with 200 people, even if the same behaviors are taking place (public drinking, for instance), and the City's concern and responsibility is also different.

Since this league is a success and many people participate and come to watch, we will have these other issues of concern. Given that reality, there seem to be four options:
1) disallow the activity,
2) have the City swallow the costs,
3) charge the league for the additional costs, or
4) find a solution that allows the league to continue without incurring these other costs.

#1 is a bad choice. #2 is not something we can do with our current budget. #3 is possible, but I don't imagine the league is in a place where they can shoulder several thousand more in charges. Which leaves #4, which is what the Parks Dept is trying to do. The fields that are on offer will allow all the soccer to continue unabated. It will put a damper on the social activity, we understand. That is unfortunate, but it is the best choice that we have.

The City is open to ideas that will address this issue in other ways - please let me know at rsmuts@newhavenct.net if you have suggestions.

Posted by: nfjanette | February 23, 2009 3:18 PM

NFJANETTE,

Look. As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.

...

So why not get some facts before you make noise?

Thanks for sharing your anger. Now, read Rob Smuts post and apologize both for being wrong and insulting. What the league pays does not cover the cost of the damages. My point was that supporters of the league should put up their money instead of their comments on NHI - that would fix the problem far more than venting on the Internet.

Posted by: Hood Rebel | February 23, 2009 5:14 PM

To Smuts:

Please help us to better understand the situation and tell what are the additional approximate costs on top of the nearly $9,000 (nine thousand dollars)annually that the league is already paying?

Posted by: Alex | February 23, 2009 6:30 PM

When DeStefano realizes how many votes this could cost him in the upcoming election, not just from soccer players and vendors but from people who are tired of the city's excuses for not supporting more youth programs.

The city is abandoning community policing, expanding police arrests instead, which costs a whole lot more. Just one crime prevented by having the youth active in soccer saves tens of thousands of dollars! One murder in this city costs the city from $500,000 to $1,000,000! So put the money into activities that prevent crimes and improve our youth. For the soccer field we are talking peanuts compared to the cost of crime and imprisoning people and having them come out bigger and better criminals. Look at this as preventative re-entry and it's dirt cheap to solve this problem and keep the Boulevard fields going.

Posted by: HOODY #2 | February 23, 2009 6:49 PM

Rob Smuts -

Smart, detailed and eloquent. However, that speech really mean you don't want the hangn' around on Sunday. Well penny wise and pound FOOLISH. A few dollars and you're keeping several neighborhoods and hundreds of spectators occupied the costs, speeches and excuses that this dumb decision will bring in the short-term and possible problems (don't think to hard) in the long term demonstrates that this is pound FOOLISH!!

Posted by: Interested NH | February 23, 2009 10:18 PM

What percent of the players on these 25 teams are New Haven residents? New Haven tax dollars built the fields, New Haven resident soccer leagues should be given priority use of the fields.

PS...I just saw this story on tv news...how many reporters did these folks contact? The squeaky soccer ball gets the field...

Posted by: anon | February 24, 2009 12:13 AM

Cutting parks employees was not a good move.

Please, let's increase taxes slightly and expand park services. Revenue from a special tax surcharge on homeowners should be directed to the parks department.

Using taxpayer funds to improve services (provided by the parks department) will pay off in the long term, because nice parks and good youth programs translate into higher property values.

As a caveat, the city should conduct public performance reviews of parks employees, and issue a report detailing exactly what services are being provided (kind of like what the Town Green District does). That way, the public can see exactly how effectively its surcharge tax dollars are being spent.

Posted by: Rob You're Wrong | February 24, 2009 1:16 AM

Rob,

Your comment makes no sense whatsoever. You were clearly caught off guard by the massive response and that 99% of it is negative.

The City improved the soccer fields basically as a reward because this league has been using them for 20 years. Those improvements are now causing you to relocate the same league. Frankly, that's just goofy.

Sit down and talk with the league like a well-paid adult. Get an agreement from the league that all of the teams will come out at the same time on one day. You go and talk with them. Hand out a set of rules for using the park. Explain why this matters.

Maybe get the league to agree to do two park/field improvement projects a season. Maybe they can line the field themselves. Maybe they can help put up a fence or plant some trees to block vehicle access. My guess is that this league is full of people who work extremely hard and are not afraid to get their hands dirty.

Running a league across multiple locations may in fact be beyond the volunteers that make this league go. It will certainly end the community feeling that this league (and basically all leagues) needs to get the volunteers that make it successful. Have you thought of that?

Again -- you are extremely well paid. Prove yourself deserving of that pay. We didn't hire you to be a vice-principal in charge of discipline.

...

Sorry to be so harsh but your response was condescending. Offering a multiple choice that excludes you actually finding a solution that maintains the league is silly and makes you come off as a know it all Yalie. That is especially inappropriate given the nature of this league.

Posted by: thinkagain | February 24, 2009 5:27 AM

It seems to me that Alberto could be a scammer. There is something more to this story than the usual race card play in the name of culture. 9 grand for field use every Sunday for 6 months? Try to rent (and wreck)a field in another town for 6 months - not a chance they would let you take over. The protests,pickets and threat of a lawsuit says to me that money is involved; Alberto's?

Is this league how he makes his living? How much does a team pay to register with the league? How much do the vendors pay to him to be there? Is this league another non-profit? Does he file tax returns? Do they provide insurance for the teams? If a player gets hurt, or a family gets run over trying to cross the road, is the City protected from being named a party in that lawsuit since they issued the permit to begin with? Isn't that boulevard a state road? The medians on the exit, with cars all over them, sure are. Is the state protected?

Fields have been offered but not accepted? So, this isn't about the league playing or families having a place to go. This is something more. Something that stinks like greed. Think again.

Posted by: thinkagain | February 24, 2009 6:24 AM

Just for kicks I looked for other places that have facilities for rent for soccer. The Connecticut Sports complex ( with indoor facilities) not only has 4 fields inside a dome, but men's leagues with all sorts of teams signed up - http://www.ctsportsplex.com/ctsport2/

Of the 3 facilities I googled, the average cost per team for cycle was 750.00 (+ ref fees & insurance/waivers). A cycle is 8 weeks.

20 teams x 750.00 = 15,000 for 8 weeks. May-October is 24 weeks, so 3 cycles or 45,000 ++.

Someone is making money here and it is not the city with the paltry 9,000. I bet the trash dumping fee alone is close to 9,000.

Why not take Alberto ( and perhaps others like him running leagues and tournaments) out of the picture, make the teams pay fees like this to the City instead? A high school kid could manage the schedules and have a p/t job. Eliminate the vendors, let the local culinary program open shop and learn about the food business first hand. The city rightly wants to invest in kids and culture and have money for field maintenance and police in a controlled environment. Win-Win. Then make the leagues come through them if they want to play and charge them accordingly. Think!

I guarantee you you cannot find another town anywhere near here that would suffer the depletion of any of their fields if they couldn't at least break even. Isn't the time of giveaways over? New Haven taxpayers shoulder the burden for everyone in the region already, do we have to support Alberto,too? Take the money, run the program...see how fast Alberto hits the road. And while you're at it, look into the rest of the adult leagues that travel far and wide to play in New Haven...softball anyone?

Posted by: Carlos | February 24, 2009 12:46 PM

Think again,

The numbers you've brought up are correct, however, they represent the fees for a heated, brightly lit indoor facility that is mainly used as the only alternative for soccer players in the winter months when nearly all outdoor fields are snow capped and frozen beneath. Moreover, these indoor facilities do not meet the requirements for a full 11 vs 11 regulation outdoor game. The size of these four fields you claim are a subsitute, are only about a quarter or so of the size of an outdoor field and allow for only a 6v6 game for an hour each week, and as you rightly mentioned, it costs over $110/hr to rent, per team.

I don't see how your cost analysis of a different sport, i.e. indoor soccer, is relevant here. It is like comparing hockey, played inside an arena, to that which can be played outside on a frozen pond. Apples and oranges.

Posted by: disgusted | February 24, 2009 7:48 PM

Think Again must be an administration plant. This is disgusting. These men play soccerr and enjoy it. They dont complain on what they pay. Now you will have them fighting over a few cents. The worst face of politics always shows itself in New haven

Posted by: marie | February 24, 2009 10:13 PM

thinkagain,
alberto has another job,i know the men that own this league VERY WELL. they rent out the fields, out of their own pockets they pay for 2 police officers, anything that happens on the field is their business, the vendors and parking however is not. the town wants to kick them out to put another league in, doesnt make sence. and about that ct sports complex, alberto's and alex's soccer league is indoor and outdoor, their teams play at that complex already. but when it gets nice out they play outdoors and it really shouldnt matter because they are paying for the fields. they also rent out the porter potties at the fields and allows the town to use them when they hold marathons. they could accept those other fields but it wouldnt b right, they shouldn't have to. this league has been around since i was little, it's like a tradition to these teams and their families. this field was made to be used! so all of u who agree that the league should stay, come out to protest with us at 10am!

Posted by: anon | February 25, 2009 9:33 AM

Is this league a great thing? Clearly. However there are problems with the group using this particular location. Even if they've been using it for 20+ years that doesn't make it right.

What happens on the field is NOT just the business of the league. Ultimately the City will be held liable if something ever does go wrong, and the first comments will be "why didn't the city do anything about this..." Should we tell the Fire Marshall not to shut down an overcrowded club because people are having fun and we wouldn't want to spoil it? Not quite the same, but I'm just trying to make a point.

As someone pointed out, though, if the City is cracking down on parking problems, illegal drinking etc. it SHOULD be done uniformly.

Between the parking and the size of the spectator space, this field is not meant for huge crowds. I can say that as part of the field renovation, parking was studied in an attempt to accommodate more spaces. It just doesn't work. Additionally, when fields are overused, the soil becomes compacted, grass doesn't grow and the field becomes unusable. Then instead of maintenance you're dealing with more drastic and expensive measures. Not good for anyone.

It is too bad that a good thing has to change, but no one said it has to end.

And before someone labels me as an administrative plant, I am not a City employee.

Posted by: Anonsense | February 25, 2009 2:50 PM

Anon --

Your comments are utter nonsense. Let's take just one (because they are all ridiculous) -- that the league is compacting the grass. A league which plays four to six games once or twice a week does not so compact grass on a soccer field as to make the fields unusable. That's completely ridiculous.

Soccer is not football or rugby where people are packed in the center for the field, dig in their feet and grind out a few yards before starting again leaving the center of the field ripped up.

In soccer most of the field is used, there are two to four people occupying a space of a 100 square feet at a time before they run into another space.

In a heavily used field, you might see the dirt compacted in the 3 yards in front of the goal mouth -- where the goal keeper does dig in and walk back and forth in the same small area.

Grass on a soccer field needs to be maintained because sometimes areas get flooded or there is a long dry period. But this has little to nothing to do with the players. Given that geese land on this area in massive numbers once a year for a couple of weeks, it has some other unique realities (a lot of the grass gets eaten -- which probably is okay because it also gets well fertilized).

I am tired of people who know nothing about soccer or soccer leagues -- you and think again -- as well as Smuts for that matter -- just making stuff up.

As to think again -- there are two indoor sports complexes that have soccer in our area. Your rates are for those. As said elsewhere, they are used in the winter and have to provide heat (though never enough), lights, staffing to maintain the buildings and astro turf. They are expensive. Maintaining a regulation soccer field means keeping the grass cut and the fields lined. As long as you have land and it has been made flat, they pretty much maintain themselves beyond that unless they need watering. Consider this as the difference between what it costs to join an indoor tennis club and what it costs to play tennis at Edgewood Park on the city courts.

Posted by: anon | February 25, 2009 5:12 PM

anonsense-
I actually do know something about soccer fields but it sounds like you know more about turfgrass than I do. I'll concede that perhaps the compaction of the field isn't the reason the City has asked the league to move. But what I was getting at were the potential problems of overuse. I guess I should have been more clear.

And quite frankly, my other points are not made up, nor are they ridiculous. They are in fact quite realistic. Liability is always an issue, parking there is a nightmare and "putting more parking in" isn't as simple as it sounds, or it would have been done during the renovation of the field.

So again, I'll make my point. Crowds are too large for the space provided. Pretty simple. Call it ridiculous if you want.

Posted by: STYLENE | March 23, 2009 9:24 AM

JULI. I HEARD THAT!!!!