New Haven Independent

Posted by: Norton Street | July 9, 2009 5:16 PM

This seems like a misplaced and unnecessary idea. Romeo's, Orange Street Market and Nica's don't need more competition, besides, the Wooster Square Farmer's Market is within walking distance of East Rock.

A better place for this would be Fair Haven along the Quinnipiac River (between Exchange and Chambers) or at Chatham Square Park.

Posted by: Eva Geertz | July 9, 2009 5:36 PM

Norton Street, as someone who would walk ridiculous lengths for good food, I have to respectfully disagree: for those of us on foot from East Rock, the Wooster Sq. farmer's market is not a good option. Getting there is a pleasant walk -- but lugging things back, not so much. And buses from there back to East Rock? Not my idea of a good time when carrying bags and glass bottles and so on.

I'd originally hoped that a new farmer's market could be developed for the Humphrey St. overpass or Jocelyn Square. That was not to be, apparently. I am hoping that an Upper State St. (or, as I like to think of it, Goatville) market will appeal to a clientele that is overlooked by other stores and markets (people who live near or at Jocelyn Square might like to amble over to a Goatville farmer's market, as might people in Cedar Hill, or people who live near Erector Square). I expect that people who do a lot of shopping on Orange Street (which I do) will find a way to continue to shop a lot on Orange Street *and* pick up a few special things at a local farmer's market.

But perhaps I am a dreamer. I am, after all, someone who has in fact dreamt about a branch of Edge of the Woods opening on Willow Street just past the Marlin Building.

Posted by: robn | July 9, 2009 5:39 PM

NS,

Ditto

Posted by: Brian V | July 9, 2009 9:31 PM

This is a great spot for a farmers market. My guess is that it will be the most successful market in the city. We are the grad ghetto- the perfect demographic for something like this. I believe there is or was a market in fair haven already -No?
I know a Farm that has been working the Wooster Sq. market for years and is excited about this new one on State St. He used to participate at Edgewood and Fairhaven but gave them up, said his stuff was priced out of reach for those markets (Organic heirloom tomatoes aren't cheap).
This would be an awesome, welcome addition to Goatville. I too love Nicas, Romeos & Orange Markets, but being able to talk to the guy who grew the Arugula for my salad is something they don't offer. I will still get my other groceries there the rest of the week, but giving local farms another opportunity to sell their products is important.

Posted by: Julio | July 9, 2009 10:14 PM

Isn't there an organization that already does this?

http://www.cityseed.org/

Is this a new group? Or Cityseed? The survey and story aren't clear.

Posted by: Streever | July 9, 2009 10:49 PM

Norton Street,
it'll be really hard to shop at romeos 6 days out of the week & still manage to buy 1 thing of fresh milk & veggies for 2-3 days at the farmer's market, but somehow I will manage.

Do you have nothing better to do than criticize the communities that are working to improve themselves?

If Fair Haven wants a farmer's market they can get together and organize one. We (East Rock) are doing this work.

You don't live here and therefore I don't know why you're even commenting.

(woah here comes Anon to get your back. you two going out?)

Posted by: Decatur | July 9, 2009 10:50 PM

Oh, the inconvenience! As if East Rockers can't get themselves to the markets that already exist. How far is Wooster Square? A mile, at most? How does it make sense to bring a new farmers market to a neighborhood that has a string of small, local grocers on Orange Street that already sell good food. Has anyone thought this through?

Posted by: Hmmm... | July 10, 2009 7:59 AM

They already have a Farmers Market in Fair Haven. The first day of the year was yesterday. Personally I don't think there is a such thing as too many markets. I am disappointed that the survey does not include neighborhoods that we all know have limited access to fresh foods (the Hill, Dixwell, Newhallville, West River, West Rock, etc)

Posted by: Streever | July 10, 2009 10:11 AM

right on with brian v!

Posted by: DEZ | July 10, 2009 10:28 AM

Fair Haven's market is on Thursday at 3PM in Quinnipiac River Park. It's small, but Saturday at Wooster Square makes up for what it lacks. Good luck East Rock!

Posted by: Norton Street | July 10, 2009 12:03 PM

HMMM... and DEZ, thanks for clarifying.

Streever,
you silly goose! I'm on State Street (between Eld and Bradley) for the summer. I take the bus, walk or bike to my house pretty much everyday because its important to be out and active in the city as much as possible for both mental health and to add to city life. And I walk to the Wooster Square Farmers Market almost every weekend because it is important for East Rock to reconnect to the Jocelyn Square area and Grand Avenue like it did 60 years ago. These boundaries that have been made in the city from highways and income have people fighting for neighborhoods instead of the city as a whole. When I lived across town I didn't complain about walking to westville for the farmer's market, nor did i demand one closer for my convenience; I just walked. For East Rock being such a pedestrian friendly and walkable place, it surprises me that so many people aren't willing to expand that to other areas of the city.

Posted by: anthony | July 10, 2009 12:22 PM

This would be such a welcome addition to our neighborhood. I really can't express how much I would enjoy this market -if it arrives in East Rock. I have a horrible work commute, and try to drive as little as possible on the weekend because of it. Being able to walk one or two blocks with my 1 and half year old son in a stroller and lug groceries back would be amazing.

As it is now, we have to drive to Wooster (try getting a toddler to walk to Wooster and back)or drive to Edgewood, so I find myself missing the market more often than not.

I can't imagine it being competition to Niccas, or Romeo's or Orange Street, as I don't think the farmers market will be there 7 days a week, or make sandwiches, or do special orders. (maybe they will? i dunno, but i doubt it.)

I would LOVE a farmers market in East Rock. I can't imagine why ANYONE would be opposed to this. Don't shop there if you don't like it.

Posted by: Elizabeth | July 10, 2009 12:39 PM

I live in Cedar Hill and love Farmer's Markets. Wooster Square is a quick drive/bike and I buy greens, eggs and a jug of coffee milk every Saturday. Though I reckon State St. could be one of the most successful markets in the city, my concern for the project echoes others: New Haven's local farm community is a small, vibrant group and many are already quite extended with the city's 4 weekly markets. These farmers work with CitySeed, a New Haven organization that promotes farmers markets, enables farmers to accept WIC and foodstamps, and greens some of New Haven's food deserts.

The State St. market may not have the capacity to accept these vouchers and meets people where the money is, not where the need is. Though I can't project the future, I worry that the market could pull our finite farmers closer to customers that can already easily access Wooster Square at the expense of needier residents. I would not support a State St market if it reduced access to fresh food for other parts of the city.

Posted by: Streever | July 10, 2009 1:33 PM

The idea that this is being placed here "where the money is" is ludicrous--it's being placed where a need is. Instead of driving around town, we're letting the top buyers of local food shop in their neighborhood. What could be bad about that?

Norton Street:

I have a hard time imaginging you going via Jocelyn Square to Wooster Street's market--I've spent an awful lot of time over there & not seen you.

I know you house-sit all over the City, but before you rain on our parade, try to put yourself in the shoes of a parent or less phyically able person in East Rock.

We have seniors & elders who would rather not walk to Wooster park for their veggies, and the comments that there aren't enough farms are bonkers. Farmers are chomping at the bits to sell food locally.

Our market will be more useful for people who live in Jocelyn Square & across Whitney & all throughout this region.

The idea of a market in East Rock is something farmers & residents have asked for.

Posted by: fairhavendoc | July 10, 2009 2:57 PM

Interesting survey...I started filling it out, then realized I couldn't. Fair Haven isn't on the survey!!!

To the surveyers, for clarification, Fair Haven (which is not on the survey) is different than Fair Haven Heights (which is on the survey). It is probably an oversight (mistake) but it does have the appearance of either disenfranchising what many would call an underrepresented community or misunderstanding the geography of the city.

Good luck, East Rockers.

Posted by: mansfieldst | July 10, 2009 3:01 PM

i live on mansfield st - which is further from the wooster square market than East Rock - and i really don't support this idea.

why would we want to hurt the farmers at wooster sq by setting up competition less than a mile away? it makes no sense. i would much rather see a market in Dixwell or Newhallville which could benefit a whole other population.

also, the more people attend and shop at a market, the more they can drop their prices. creating markets for small populations means prices will continue stay high. seriously, we have so many options already in these more middle and upper middle class neighborhoods - lets not waste resources here and divide the community. lets allocate resources where they are needed instead - Dixwell, Newhallville etc.

finally i love the saturday wooster sq and sunday westville markets. every week i run into various folks from the community and even though i have only been living in new haven for a couple of years now, the farmers market helps it feel like home. it will be a real shame to see this change...

Posted by: CO | July 10, 2009 4:07 PM

Won't another market on Saturdays hurt the farmers in Wooster Sq? Why would you want to do that? I am not a fan of this proposal at all... Surely there are better places to put another market if there has to be another one.

Posted by: alycia | July 10, 2009 5:16 PM

Just finished reading through the survey. Interesting choice of neighborhoods/towns in #3. I'm curious what the reasoning is behind it. All have higher rates of income and white people. I am definitely interested in the idea of expanding FM's to other neighborhoods, particularly lower income neighborhoods where people who use WIC/Foodstamps can utilize the markets. I think any expansion should utilize the extremely innovative--and nationally recognized--system that City Seed has put in place for people to redeem their WIC/Foodstamp dollars at markets. CitySeed does an admirable job in creating access to local, fresh foods in low-income neighborhoods--including their Fair Haven Market; their Downtown Market, where I have seen Foodstamp/WIC participants lined up before 11AM waiting to redeem their foodstamps; and through their Community Supported Market program, where participants receive $10 worth of food for $3 in foodstamps/WIC. Will this endeavor be done in partnership with CitySeed? If not, please do consider putting any criticism aside in order to partner with CitySeed. We do not need a duplicative system in such a small city (we have way too much of that to begin with!). They have a great deal of valuable experience that can be applied to any similar endeavors.

Posted by: Local Merchant | July 10, 2009 5:44 PM

WOW! The CitySeed mafia is large. CitySeed was asked to help start a market in East Rock, they said no. Merchants and residents decided we would start our own with local farmers who were not already doing business at CitySeed markets. Get a grip folks! This just industrious neighbors starting a local market. Its not our fault that CitySeed didn't want to partner with us and we have the interest to do it anyway. It what other business do we try to support monopolieis anyway? You liberals are quite authoritarian in your views.

Posted by: anon | July 10, 2009 6:14 PM

Can we get any more information on this? I am assuming from the comments that this new Farmer's Market will not be an expansion of CitySeed's existing one? Also, it seems that there are more farms wanting to participate than available booths- I recall a story in the NHI about a farm that was excluded at the last minute back in May?
In any case, I think trying to set up new markets in less affluent parts of New Haven would be a better idea- I already see all my East Rock neighbors downtown Wed & at Wooster Square Sat morning.

Posted by: Ben Berkowitz | July 12, 2009 9:37 PM

Thanks for all of the feedback and to those that took the survey.

All of the details have not been finalized to date but we will update the NHI in the next week with the start date, location and market info.

This market will be an independent market run by farmers and residents under the umbrella of the Upper State Street Association.

The vendors that have reached out to us are not currently City Seed Vendors and we believe that there are more than enough farmers to serve both markets.

Will keep the NHI posted with the final details.

Posted by: fairhavendoc | July 13, 2009 1:29 PM

First...it is not a CitySeed mafia. What you are seeing is a group of supporters of CitySeed who feel strongly about what CitySeed has done and is doing for the community. CitySeed has created a group of markets that bring people together and while an important element is bringing fresh and healthy food to the city, it is also acts for advocacy for small and local farmers, improving access to healthy foods to underserved populations and schools, and developing educational and policy initiatives to improve our ominvorous lives.

"Local Merchant" reports that CitySeed was not interested in partnering. That is probably an exaggeration, but can you blame them? Why would they want to create a market less than 1 mile from their original market (Wooster Square; Saturday) or only a couple of miles from their Westville Sunday market? It is a duplication and decentralization of efforts. And instead of bringing people from different communities together, this East Rock market idea appears to be developing specifically to cater to a certain part (geographically and economically) of the community. Call it what it is, guys. If it was an attempt to make it easier on transportation to/from the market for some people, you would have included the bus as a form of transportation in the survey. And if you wanted to serve an underserved community, you would have included the adjacent neighborhoods of Cedar Hill, Fair Haven, and Newhallville in the question about where we live.

I moved to New Haven five years ago...my first weekend was the same weekend as the first farmers' market in Wooster Square. 20 people probably showed up that weekend and now it is packed from 9am to 1pm and is even hopping during the winter. The Wooster Square market may be one of the most significant weekly gatherings of a diverse community in all of New Haven. Of course people are going to feel strongly about attempts to break up its efforts to bring people together. Yes, we will feel sad if our East Rock neighbors don't show up. I have many friends in East Rock who I run into at the market and it is a great opportunity for us to catch up.

Anyway, God bless the entrepreneurs involved. Good luck with it. Remember that a great deal of the East Rock community isn't around on weekends in the summer, so the buyers might not be there when the farmers want to sell the most. And don't make CitySeed look like the enemy. They are different, way different, than you guys and certainly not perfect, but if you want to start making the comparisons, I doubt you will come out looking better. And you better ask Romeo's and Nica's what they think...it would be a shame to take away from their critical enterprises.

Posted by: Walt | July 14, 2009 9:13 AM

Surprises me that there are enough farmers still existing in the area to supply to existing markets, let alone new ones, as all the farms I knew were made into housing areas many years ago.

Are these folks really farmers, or just entrepreneurs picking up a few bucks on weekends?

Arts and crafts and other items mentioned in the questionnaire do not seem farmer -originated or related.

Don't get in another tizzy Srreever, just asking a couple of questions. Wish you luck re East Rock venture, but, if enough real farmers exist to supply the Market, it is somewhat a surprise to me.

What's the story?

Posted by: Reader | July 14, 2009 9:14 PM

Ditto what others have said about duplicating efforts and East Rock's proximity to Wooster Square. I walk a mile to Wooster Square every Saturday to go to the market. Does that mean I should start another market in my neighborhood because I don't want to walk that far? If it's really about elderly people, why not spend your energy starting a delivery service for them?

Markets only work when there is a critical mass of vendors and shoppers, and it's taken a few years for Wooster Square to reach that point. Add another market a mile away and you dilute both of them.

By the way, somebody commissioned a study about putting a year-round market in the Shartenburg redevelopment, and they concluded that New Haven doesn't have the numbers to support it -- too few potential shoppers AND farmers. Check it out. I know it's not exactly the same thing, but what it might indicate is that the city has all it can successfully support at the moment. And anyway, I'm sure the study was a little more scientific than the online survey. (That's not a slight -- but of course only the people who support whatever you are asking about are likely to answer these kinds of surveys.)

If you're really hell-bent on starting a market in East Rock, and it sounds like you are, why not do something that isn't already offered? Right now, there are no markets anywhere in New Haven on Monday, Tuesday or Friday, or on any evening but Thursday. A Monday evening market for the after-work crowd might actually justify itself.

Posted by: Edge of the College Woods | July 15, 2009 11:35 AM

Is 'upper State Street near Edwards Street' the only location being considered for an East Rock Farmer's Market?

East Rock Park's College Woods on Coldspring/Offspring St. would be a perfect location for a Farmer's Market; among other things, ERP already attracts a lot more folks/potential customers from all over the city and beyond, offers public restrooms and family friendly playgrounds etc.

With the additional benefits of 'one stop shopping' for local groceries, recreation, relaxation etc, this location may support an even greater variety of vendors, perhaps even produce from a possible Friends of East Rock Park community garden...
http://picasaweb.google.com/friendsofeastrockpark/URIWithYouthWorkAtRiceField#5358032148265914786

Wherever the location in the Goatville 'Grad Ghetto', if 'competition' with Wooster Square is a considerable issue why not try alternating locations?

Also, an East Rock Farmer's Market would be more accessible to local seniors (:))
http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/04/seniors_forge_r.php

http://eastrockvillage.org/

Posted by: Makusa | July 17, 2009 3:03 PM

I don't see why a second farmers market so close to the existing (and highly popular) market would be needed.

If a market was added to complement the existing market structure of New Haven I'd be all for it. Something on Saturday or Sunday, at the same time as the CitySeed markets, just seems to serve to split up the community and undo some of the work done so far to bring people together on market days.

I love farmers markets, but I also love local communities. Let's build both at once.