New Haven Independent

Posted by: Please Stop the NONSENSE | October 19, 2009 3:28 PM

Please stop the NONSENSE....Can we just have the best skilled laborers working.... I don't care what color they are....just make the schools so the roofs & walls don't leak...And let the floors be level so the tiles actually stay down rather than popping up...these are the REAL problems with these construction company's....ALL the other new schools they built have these problems.

P.S. Who signs off on these schools when they are completed...That person should be out of work!

Posted by: Norton Street | October 19, 2009 3:33 PM

Construction jobs in New Haven should be given only to New Haven based construction workers, businesses and contractors.
Every place one goes in this country should represent as close to an equal representation of the region as possible. In New Haven, from individual classrooms to schools, from individual offices to office buildings, from a kitchen in a cafe to the entire business block, from each house to entire neighborhoods should all reflect the entire population of the region, or as close as possible. The arbitrary separation of class and ethnicity needs to go along with the separation of zones (except for separating industrial zones from residential zones; that should stay) and uses from one another. We must encourage community over isolation and density over sprawl.

Posted by: David Denholm | October 19, 2009 3:39 PM

It seems a bit ironic that there is a protest about too many Hispanic workers on a school named after Roberto Clemente. You have to wonder whether Hispanics would have protested that too many African-Americans were working on a school named after Willie Mays.

More to the point, it seems very strange that nobody mentioned the historic pattern of discrimination by building trades unions against African Americans. If the unions signed the Project Labor Agreement you can bet that they were looking after the interests of their predominantly white membership. Maybe that's why the agreement only calls for 25 percent of the workers to be from New Haven.

Posted by: Get Real | October 19, 2009 4:24 PM

Oh wait -- actually interviewing people at the job site it turns out that Felder and Daniels were completely wrong.

That's HILARIOUS but not really SURPRISING.
...

So if they are pissed off about opportunities for minorities on construction jobs at Yale, why would they go to a city construction job where the simple act of asking workers on the site revealed that about 50% of the workers are people of color?

Hate comes in many forms, apparently often walking hand-in-hand with stupid. Combined they can blur vision and make you see what you want, even when it's not there.

Too bad because the idea of New Haven residents working on New Haven jobs is a good one. It's been a real victory for New Haven.

Posted by: Me | October 19, 2009 4:59 PM

What happened to "immigrants do the jobs Americans won't do"?
Sounds the Some African Americans need to start voting republican.

Posted by: notimon | October 19, 2009 5:06 PM

... We will eventually get to the bottom of this superficial political ploy by the administration. Alan I will be joining you soon and maybe we should go out to the streets and ask the voters to remember this come november.

Posted by: Jon Doe | October 19, 2009 5:16 PM

How about just Hiring the best person for the job regardless of the color of there skin. If this was a white Construction worker he would be looked at as a racist. When are people going to relay on there own skills insisted of the color of there skin.

If these workers are undocumented workers you only Have Mayor Johnny & the Aldermen / woman to thank, so make sure you vote them in again next month.

Posted by: Here We Go Again | October 19, 2009 5:27 PM

I see that Mr. Felder has lifted a page from his collegue, the notorious xenophobe Paul Streitz, who according to the New Haven Advocate "took time off from his job as a market research professional to observe over 800 McDonald's locations in Connecticut, culminating in a report that claims anti-white discrimination in hiring policies." Much like Mr. Streitz, Mr. Felder believes that he can tell a person's race and ethnic background purely on the basis of observation. His ignorance -- both about race and ethnicity is shocking.

Just saying something based on ignorance and prejudice doesn't make it so, and Mr. Felder's statements about immigrants stealing jobs of native born workers is just not true, as evidenced by a number of recent studies:

http://www.ilctr.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/immigrants_jobs_the_labor_force.pdf

If Mr. Felder really cared about racial justice, he could maybe start by ending his ties with the Community Watchdog Project, an anti immigrant group with ties to white supremacist organizations.

Posted by: Shame Mayor Daniels | October 19, 2009 5:54 PM

I can't believe a former Mayor who would like to have some credibility appear with Felder and his awful group. If Mayor Daniels really wants to help African American get jobs, maybe he should educate individuals about the Construction Workforce Initiative, which trains people for construction jobs and helps them find placement in New Haven.

The justification for the protest is absurd and Daniels should know better.

Posted by: Spell Check | October 19, 2009 5:59 PM

Mr. John Doe says:

"When are people going to relay [sic] on there [sic] own skills insisted [sic] of the color of there [sic] skin. [sic]"

Odd that you would be so set on people judging each other based on their "skills". Which skills would those be? Grammar? Spelling? Punctuation?

Posted by: kamb | October 19, 2009 6:09 PM

NORTON STREET, your statement is riduculous! So, if a business is being built in Milford, like at the Mall, they should employ 90% whites, because 90% of Milford is white?!?!?! THATS RIDICULOUS!!?!!?

Hire the best person or company for the job. ENOUGH OF THIS Black versus white versus hispanic, versus mexican versus asian . . . . lets concentrate on making our country strong by promoting and hiring the best people for the job so our kids know that the better they do the more they will be recognized for their achievement.

Posted by: Norton Street | October 19, 2009 10:10 PM

KAMB,
Milford isn't a region.

Posted by: Fonseca | October 19, 2009 11:15 PM

Happy Hispanic Heritage Month Compas!

Palante, Siempre Palante!

Posted by: Alan Felder | October 20, 2009 12:08 AM

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12"But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep"

JESUS CHRIST

Posted by: Alan Felder | October 20, 2009 8:28 AM

"TRUTH FOREVER ON THE SCAFFOLD"

Posted by: robn | October 20, 2009 9:13 AM

"Man Up"???

How about "Info Up"???

Posted by: Pedro | October 20, 2009 9:53 AM

Norton street, by your line of reasoning at some point you need to define "region." Are you going to make it a town, make it a town an it's surrounding towns one town over, a county?

The demographics for New Haven County are overwhelmingly white with a breakdown of 68% white 13% hispanic , 13% black, 3.5% asian.

Those demographics are only a few percentage points different from the demographics of the state as a whole.

If you wish to reflect the "entire population of the region" in fact you'd have to actually REDUCE the number of minorities in construction sites.

Posted by: stylene | October 20, 2009 10:22 AM

@ david. your absolutely right. the irony is to obvious to miss

Posted by: lance | October 20, 2009 10:49 AM

I'm interested to hear Felder's take on Obama's illegal aunt Zeituni Onyango living for years in tax payer furnished public housing.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | October 20, 2009 12:49 PM

Lance
I would like to know why the CIA is using tax dollars for this.

Documents show CIA covered up Nazi war criminals during Cold War
Updated 6/6/2006 6:37 PM ET E-mail | Save | Print |


Adolf Eichmann
AFP file, 1960

WASHINGTON (AP) — Determined to win the Cold War, the CIA kept quiet about the whereabouts of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann in the 1950s for fear he might expose undercover anti-communist efforts in West Germany, according to documents released Tuesday.
The 27,000 pages released by the National Archives are among the largest post-World War II declassifications by the CIA. They offer a window into the shadowy world of U.S. intelligence — and the efforts to use former Nazi war criminals as spies, sometimes to detrimental effect.

The war criminals "peddled hearsay and gossip, whether to escape retribution for past crimes, or for mercenary gain, or for political agendas not necessarily compatible with American national interests," Robert Wolfe, an expert on German history and former archivist at the National Archives, said at a news briefing announcing the document release.

In a March 19, 1958, memo to the CIA, West German intelligence officials wrote that they knew where Eichmann was hiding. Eichmann played a key role in transporting Jews to death camps during World War II. "He is reported to have lived in Argentina under the alias 'Clemens' since 1952," authorities wrote.

But neither side acted on that information because they worried what he might say about Hans Globke, a highly placed former Nazi and a chief adviser in West Germany helping the U.S. coordinate anti-communist initiatives in that country.

Two years later, when Jewish authorities captured Eichmann, the CIA pressured journalists to delete references to Globke.

"Entire material has been read. One obscure mention of Globke which Life omitting at our request," CIA Director Allen Dulles wrote in a Sept. 20, 1960, internal memorandum, after Life magazine purchased Eichmann's memoir.

Among the other findings:

• Former Nazi officers such as Heinz Felfe, who served in the "Gehlen organization" — the West German intelligence service which in its early years was sponsored by the U.S. Army and then the CIA — were typically hired by the Soviet Union to be double agents.

•The CIA routinely misled U.S. immigration officials in the mid-1970s about the role of CIA agent Tscherim Soobzokov and his connection to Nazi war crimes.

The documents were among the latest released under a 1999 law — resisted by the CIA — that called for disclosure of government records related to war crimes committed by the Nazi and Japanese governments.

"CIA has been struggling with the nettlesome problem of how to balance the public's interest in the historical record of CIA's connections to Nazis, and an intelligence agency's need ... to protect the identities of sources," said Stanley Moskowitz, a former CIA official who is now a consultant to the agency.

"The passage of time has shifted the balance," he said.

Material relating to Japanese war crimes were scheduled to be released later this summer.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Posted by: lance | October 20, 2009 2:53 PM

what does that have to do with the discussion about immigrants three fifths? ...

Posted by: Get Real | October 20, 2009 3:57 PM

Lance --

ThreeFifths comment has as much to do with this thread as yours did -- absolutely none -- maybe that was his point.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | October 20, 2009 5:21 PM

Lance
I was answering you question about how you said

Obama's illegal aunt Zeituni Onyango living for years in tax payer furnished public housing.

I was just trying to show you how Tax payer money is used by the CIA to help nazi war criminals who as a fact are hiding in this country illegal which
would also make them illegal immigrants.

Posted by: Bob | October 20, 2009 6:33 PM

Sounds like racism to me...

Posted by: Norton Street | October 20, 2009 7:23 PM

Pedro,
My post had two somewhat separate ideas that I did not really explain. New Haven should immediately begin only employing New Haven based construction businesses, workers and contractors. As the economic situation worsens, municipalities across the country (Connecticut especially) will most likely try to condense and run as efficiently as possible, which means reorganizing at a region level and combining or becoming part of other municipalities. This process should begin a reorganization of our living arrangement that creates neighborhoods and communities that contain diverse housing for varying incomes, diverse retail for varying needs, and diverse jobs for varying skills all within close proximity. This should also help diversify the newly created regions by ethnicity, so that the population of the whole is reflected in every little community.
Currently a majority of the poor Hispanic and Black population of the country live in a select few neighborhoods in New Haven, West Haven, Hamden and Waterbury. One of the biggest problems with our current approach to the organization of our physical environment is isolation.
An example:
At the corner of Ellsworth and Whalley there is a catholic school (St Brandan's), at the corner of Percival and Carmel there is a church made up mostly of black members, and near the corner of Norton and Whalley is a synagogue. And the neighborhood reflects this with a diversity of housing and retail for people of each enthnicity and income all within a very short distance.

Posted by: The Professor | October 20, 2009 10:16 PM

I think that Lance makes a good point, and Threefifths responds with a complete non sequitur.

Felder is engaging in race-baiting and stereotyping of the basest and most despicable form. He's bringing up the specter of the big bad illegals living at the expense of hardworking Americans. However boorish he may come across, Lance's point is essentially that there are people of all races and ethnicities in this country without proper documentation, and that if Felder is going to be ideologically consistent, he should denounce such occurrences whenever they happen. I probably don't agree with Lance's views on immigration as a whole, but it's fair to ask Felder and his supporters to actually respond to Lance's point--do they feel so strongly opposed to people being in the country without documents when those people are members of the Obama family?

Threefifths responded to this by trying to go for shock value, and still managed to draw a false analogy. The CIA didn't actively accommodate Eichmann, they simply "kept quiet" about him; that's a big difference. And even if they did actively accommodate him, you haven't responded to Lance's point. Is being in the country without papers generally not okay, but "okay if you're an Obama"?

Anyway, it seems to me like all these people who sit around talking about "immigration economics" are nothing more than the intellectual equivalents of Monday morning quarterbacks, except a bit more dangerous because they play with race and actively demonize others on faulty intellectual premises. Felder's true intention is to rile people up; he says it's all about mathematics, but the fact of the matter is that economists have actually yet to yield conclusive evidence regarding whether illegal immigrant labor ACTUALLY depresses native-born wages, so that math doesn't help him. Felder also says, "Black babies are dying." Does he suggest giving them jobs at construction sites? No, he says it to evoke a visceral response in his audience. This guy's every bit as racist as Tom "Miami is a Third World Country" Tancredo, and we shouldn't think of him as anything else.

By the way, Felder, here's a free economics lesson for you: if you want to help raise the black community (and I say black pointedly, since it seems pretty clear that you don't much care for other minority communities) out of the condition it is presently in, you should not be focusing on construction jobs. You should be focusing on helping people attain a quality education. I won't bore you with the details, but if you want to look into it more, start with the Heckscher-Ohlin and Stolper-Samuelson theories of international trade. When you apply them to today's world, you see that low skill jobs (i.e. the ones that an undocumented and uneducated immigrant could easily do just as well) are not the jobs that will provide financial stability in this country in this day and age.

The kind of jobs that you should be focused on promoting among the black community are the jobs that are likely to come as a result of the medical-pharmaceutical construction that is going on downtown. Working in a lab for Pfizer will provide significantly more security than building Pfizer's facility. That's a growth industry. Construction is not.

Posted by: Alan Felder | October 20, 2009 11:57 PM

Young Black men unemployment rate (35%) dropout rate (50%)= Department of Correction.

Posted by: Alan Felder | October 21, 2009 12:01 AM

"As oil rises above water, so shall the Truth rise above a lie"

Posted by: FIX THE SCHOOLS | October 21, 2009 8:44 AM

Alan Felder,

Why haven't you been taking your signs and protesting down at the Board of Education for the last 20 years? You think gaining some small amount of set aside construction jobs is the continuation of the civil rights movement?

What about the tens of thousands of black children who have come through the doors of New Haven public schools and have been allowed to graduate with the equivalent of an 8th grade education?

A request: Please take your energy and concern and help the mayor and the supt. reform the school district. Focus on developing marketable skills in the african american youth in our city. Whether a kids chooses a 4 year college, or a trade in our increasingly technological world, they need to graduate from 12th grade with 12th grade skills. THAT is the continuation of the civil rights movement.

Posted by: stylene | October 21, 2009 9:24 AM

@alan felder- AMEN!!!

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | October 21, 2009 11:24 AM

The Professor

I think that Lance makes a good point, and Threefifths responds with a complete non sequitur.

Wrong again. Let Look at the whole store.

Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama said Saturday he didn't know his aunt was living in the United States illegally and believes that laws covering the situation should be followed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27481680/

And he even said the laws should be followed.

He is why she got housing.

In Boston, Lydia Agro, communications director for the Housing Authority, said Onyango had been screened and approved for public housing as an "eligible non-citizen" when she moved in in 2003. She said the authority is not notified of deportation orders and did not know Onyango was related to Obama until two days ago.

Agro said the authority doesn't believe it needs to take any action to remove Onyango from public housing despite the order.

She said that although Onyango entered the system under federal guidelines in a federal development, she now lives in a state-funded development. State law forbids the authority from even asking Onyango about her immigration status. That means the federal deportation order has no bearing on Onyango's eligibility for the state-funded project where she lives, Agro said.

"We're not convinced that the deportation decision will affect her housing at all right now," she said.

"She's been a very good resident," she added.

Notice she was eligible as a non citizen.

So I hope this answer lance question.But knowing
lance I doubt it.

The CIA didn't actively accommodate Eichmann, they simply "kept quiet" about him; that's a big difference. are you telling me that we should kept quiet about a nazi war criminal who was part
of the holocaust.There is a big difference between
a criminal who was a part of murder and some one who broke Immigration laws.I bet you if Simon Wiesonthal was here today and you asked him about what the CIA did with this nazi war criminal that they kept quiet about,What answer would you think
he would give you. I bet he would care less about
Obama's aunt and would go after the CIA.

Posted by: Texreiver | October 21, 2009 3:48 PM

Many thanks to the citizens of New Haven and Connecticut.

Because of the type of BS outlined in this article and the effects of making it far more expensive there than in Texas to work and operate a business, we've been receiving a flood of in-migrants from the Northeast Corridor. I'm sure the 2010 Census will bear this out.

In Houston/Southeast Texas, we've been building new homes, apartments, businesses and the roads seem to be under a near constant state of expansion construction.

So, please continue with the nonsense of unions and racial quotas in hiring. Your helping the rest of the Northeast to do wonders for our local economy. Again, many thanks.

Posted by: robn | October 21, 2009 6:26 PM

I love the healthy dose of platitudes in these comments. Here's one for everybody...

"Hold out both of thine hands...allow one to fill with thy wishes and the other to fill with thy BS...observe which of thine hands fills up first."

Posted by: robn | October 21, 2009 8:32 PM

PS to TEXREIVER,

Texans get back almost every penny they pay in taxes to the federal government. CT residents get back 70 cents on the dollar. So don't be so smug...its easy to have a booming economy when you're a freeloader...
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/266.html
...and its easy to have a booming economy when your state is the second highest exploiter of the labor of undocumented workers...
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-people-estimated-number-illegal-immigrants

Posted by: Alan Felder | October 21, 2009 11:57 PM

Just for the record: The City of New Haven (Code of Ordinances,Chapter 12,Sec.12-3 Definitions
..........3) Who are members of a minority group that has been identified through a utilization study or other analysis of New Haven contractor utilization records to be the victim of statistically significant underutilization for construction and construction-related services by the city and private contractors. As such, and in accordance with court rulings, the designated minority groups are:
(i) African American, which shall mean all persons having origins in any Black racial groups of Africa, and not of Spanish culture origin;
(ii) Hispanic American, which shall mean all persons Puerto Rican, Cuban, Mexican, Central American or South American or other Spanish culture origin; and
(iii) Women (can be of any ethnic background).

Posted by: tom | October 22, 2009 1:27 AM

Mr. Felder is a wise man. I think that he should get on board with the seperatist movement. This idea calls for partitions in the US were the races can fulfill their destinies without racially based violence. All races can then thin their own gene pools without accusationsof racism. Blacks are not going anywhere in the US with leadership like Al Sharpy Sharpton. He and Jackson are little more than latter day Adam Clayton Powells, running around asking the white man, "say ya got 50 cent?" If the Blacks owned their own territory they would do well in the deal. As they moved into partitioned areas, the value of the property would be of higher value than the property that they left. As an independant state whites blacks and hispanics would progress within their own culture, and be better for it.For the diversity worshipers, they can have a partition as well. search and have a look Felder. Some very bright people would like to do this, and a comittee could form to ensure fairness.