New Haven Independent

Posted by: robn | October 20, 2009 9:10 AM

The google translator is pretty rough...but it generally gives you the gist of meaning...especially English to Spanish and vice versa.

Wow...what a battle...I can't figure out who is more reactionary...TOC or RM.

...our tax dollars at work...

Posted by: Jay | October 20, 2009 9:19 AM

Though not a Spanish speaker, as the parent of two children who go to New Haven public schools, I don't think I've ever seen documentation in English that wasn't also provided in Spanish. The only problem I've ever noticed is the reduplication of a section in our copy of the policy manual, a simple human/collation error. If a portion of the parents' packet wasn't in Spanish, I'd chalk it up to human error rather than some sort of conspiracy. Given how petty these complaints seem, I have to wonder whether this group has any merit, or it's just a group of squeaky wheel "special" parents seeking attention and the thrill of having school officials kiss their rings. It would appear that Mayo is justified in not meeting with them.

Posted by: Pedro | October 20, 2009 9:44 AM

While I disagree with much TOC's tactics -it was pretty rich irony when it was discovered that TOC's own website in fact wasn't translated into spanish! - I do think that Mayo kind of stepped into it and committed a silly blunder. Rather than trying to be the bigger person, he took his toys and went home..conduct hardly becoming of a public official, even one who has been called a liar.

With this shortsighted act he gave TOC this cherry of an article and further distracts yet again from the debate regarding translation.

Posted by: lance | October 20, 2009 10:35 AM

"Teach Our Children".......on someone elses dime.

Posted by: Claudia | October 20, 2009 10:53 AM

Instead of focusing on the real issue – getting parents involved in their kids’ education (which is crucial for academic success) – it continues being a struggle between adults about proper behavior. What is the big deal about providing interpretation at mandatory orientations or translating school specific handbooks? Apparently it was promised by the Superintendent and not lived up to.

A broken promise which is not being excused and explained (I am sure there must be good reasons) is quite disrespectful. That is a cardinal rule of collaboration 101. As well as showing up to a meeting in time and if not – to excuse yourself. Accusations on both sides (“lied” and the equally tainted “disingenuous” by school administrator Clark) do not help. Stop all of this discrediting and mud-slinging (including the one about the not-translated TOC web page). Grow up, be professional and focus on the education and academic improvement of New Haven’s children.

Posted by: JB | October 20, 2009 12:05 PM

Dr. Mayo should be professional regardless of how he feels about his critics.

I have doubts about his leadership when it comes to school reform. He seems to be focused on himself rather than the large task ahead. Can he put his ego aside?

Posted by: Will Create Issues for Grant Money | October 20, 2009 2:34 PM

Good for Doc Mayo walking out of this meeting. Meetings by the way which are taped. Thus, anyone, with or without a translator can listen to the prior meetings and confirm that there was no "promise" as Mr. Nieves intentionally misstates (i.e. lies about). Rather there was a commitment to continue working to find creative ways to address the issues raised by TOC.

This group of a handful of publicity hounds and paid staff is doing nothing more than keep its anti-public school funding base secure. Thankfully for them the press keeps showing up so they don't have to spend their budget on advertising as it is free.

Mayo has a long history of meeting with and working with virtually every segment of the community. TOC has no such track record. On the contrary all they have is a history publicity stunts and taking credit for things that they had little or no role in effectuating.

It certainly takes a village and folks need to work together. But accusing someone of lying when there was no lie (and there is a tape to prove it) is a problem. Anyone would consider that a personal attack and the BOE brass should not take an allegation like that without responding by clearing the record up.

Working together means finding common ground and common goals. I beleive there are plenty of such areas between Mayo and TOC that could serve as the basis for a productive relationship. But TOC has to be interested in that. Clearly Mayo is not interested in games and name calling and made an approptiate request to rid the room of that element. By not ridding the room of the element or correcting the record TOC endorses the lie and the methods which is all the proof Mayo needs of their intentions.

Posted by: MORRIS COVE MOM | October 20, 2009 2:37 PM

Wow, shocking, a New Haven city official acting less than interested in what the public has to say, and more interested in how he is perceived. I've seen that before.

Our resolution this Election Day should be to clean house in New Haven, getting rid of Mayo, DeStefano, Clark, and all the others who are just jamming up the gears in this city's machine, instead of doing their job to help and fix it.

It's shameful that this reporter had to spend time on a mood swing by Mayo, rather than cover the deeper meanings of the disgruntled parents of his entire school system.

I'm left to wonder aloud why he doesn't have any public meetings in my neighborhood...

Posted by: Ka Ching | October 20, 2009 2:44 PM

"You called me a liar" . . . "you disrespected me" . . . coming up with excuses to avoid engaging the substance of an issue is getting tired. Dr. Mayo, you may be in the right on this one but how would we know it based on your behavior? Typically, the only people who cling to these sorts of excuses to disengage from a conversation are those who aren't quite sure they'd win on the substance. Not exactly a good example for our kids.

Posted by: Sabrina | October 20, 2009 6:33 PM

To be honest, I am a bit fed up with TOC and their antics. This seems quite extreme behavior on their part and I do not see how this is helping kids or parents. I have a fair amount of experience with NHPS and parent involvement activities and I am confused.

TOC sends out a press release to let the press know they are doing a demonstration before they go to the meeting to air a grievance? They cast aspersions on the superintendent of schools when he is not even in the room? One document out of how many in the orientation packet wasn't translated? Please.

This is not the first time that I have seen good parents used. Perhaps decent parents whose english skills are rudimentary are being used in this way? I find it odd that parents who desire to immerse themselves in english, or who are reaching out to be more involved would march in front of the board of ed building instead of enrolling themselves in one of the ESL classes available.

TOC has been beating the attention drum for quite some time as I recall ( school suspension issues?)and I have to wonder what is the big picture here - who wants what? Who is behind them and more importantly, who is funding this organization? My instinct says this isn't about building success for kids or encouraging more parents to be involved. There are far better ways to creatively and collaboratively embrace the challenge to involve parents and TOC's approach is about as far off as you can get in my opinion. Makes no sense to me.

Melissa? Paul?

Any insight as to who funds this organization? Someone is getting paid to carry on like this. Maybe those funds can be shifted to provide additional translators?

Posted by: robn | October 20, 2009 7:01 PM

On second thought...if a member of TOC blatantly falsely accused RM of lying, I kindof don't blame him for wanting to expel that person from the meeting. That being said, he could have made that a prerequisite of the meeting and not wasted everyones time...sounds like a double edged publicity stunt.

You Talkin To Me?.

Posted by: Disgusted | October 20, 2009 8:20 PM

Thank god my kids dont go to school in New Haven. Without political interference teachers can teach and kids can learn. My grandparents werent taught in italian. They had to learn english. ...

Posted by: Give me a break | October 20, 2009 9:46 PM

Will Clark is way out of his league in almost every aspect of his job. Mayo needs to finally take retirement - he is too fed up.

Posted by: New and Improved | October 20, 2009 9:50 PM

Childlike behavior from someone getting $180K per year in taxpayers money. So where do these kids get it from. ...

Posted by: Claudia | October 20, 2009 11:20 PM

Paid staff from the school administration continues to diffuse the real facts here. TOC was playing nice and got a google-translated web page as a result. Thereafter the communication stalled on the side of the administration. Announced action by the Superintendent was not implemented. Three times – yupp, not once or twice but three times did Mayo say that there will be translations at the mandatory school orientations. He did not keep his word. And he knows that and dislikes being held accountable for it.

Now the Superintendent asks for respect which neither he nor his administration is not willing to give to others. Not answering letters, not fulfilling pledged services and showing up 25 minutes late proves to me that he does not take concerned parents serious. Actually if you show up to a meetings roughly half an hour late without excuse, and sing then the song that you wanted to meet and talk about the translation issue does not make sense in my book. If you are truly interested in a cooperative meeting why start like that?

Again: TOC played nice until it was clear that niceness doesn’t get you anything and falls on deaf ears at Meadow Street. Reminded about his inaction Mayo, political appointee, paid by our tax dollars, decides to remain silent and left in a huff. So who can answer me why the school district could not fulfill its announcements?

Posted by: A TOC parent for Sabrina | October 21, 2009 9:32 AM

Sabrina � shouldn�t you be more interested in an issue that could help improve Hispanic students than who funds TOC? But believe me, at TOC we are parents, all capable of rational choice when it comes to fighting for our interests. What other organization is there that fights for our concerns as parents within the New Haven System?

PTOs � yeah right. Parent - TEACHER � Organization. There you go. PTOs are a formation that by default also reflects interests of teachers and administrators which not necessarily are on the same page than parents. And at my school in the PTO by-laws you can read about information and fundraising as the purpose of the endeavor. That makes it a real powerful organization which will defend you interests and seeks out for a representative mandate in SPMTs, right? Of course not.

Any hopes for parent involvement via SPMT? Sure you can attend and there is a parent representative. But that parent is picked by the principal and does not know what the collective body of school parents wants since at PTO meetings you do not talk about that (remember: only information and fundraising �).

There is another way of parental involvement (and I am not talking about homework help). As an individual you can voice your individual concerns. If you are well educated, well connected or equipped with a lot of stamina you�ll know how to work the system in your individual favor. But still your request might be forgotten in Meadow Street. Example: Last fall in 2008 at the mayor�s night out in my neighborhood I talked with an administrator from Mayo�s office about pre-registration for Kindergarten. Well, DeStefano thanked me for attending by mail, but I did not even get a �Nice-talking-with-you�-letter from the administration. And whoever recalls what happened this spring with regards to pre-registration knows I could have better spent my time. Nothing has happened at all. That is how responsive the administration is when it comes to parent involvement.

Thus if you believe in collective interest and parental governance (not fundraising, information gathering or individual cronyism) TOC provides a valuable alternative especially for low and moderate income parents.

Posted by: Jay | October 21, 2009 9:54 AM

@ Claudia:

"Announced action by the Superintendent was not implemented . . . " Announced how? When? In what form and with what caveats? Can you cite news reports? Press releases? Post video?

"Not once but three times did Mayo say that there will be translations at the mandatory school orientations . . . " Translat-ions or translat-ors?

"Mayo, political appointee, paid by our tax dollars . . . " Is it really so unusual for a school superintendent or a public school system to be funded publicly or hired by someone who is held to account by the public? Is the use of politically charged rhetoric and epithets against public officials really calculated to persuade them to cooperate?

Frankly, a group that uses language like that and accuses the superintendent of bad faith by not addressing Spanish-speaking parents' concerns should consider itself lucky to have meaningful dialogue with that superintendent, or expect him to attend their meetings. As you yourself say, "If you are truly interested in a cooperative meeting why start like that?"

Posted by: Claudia | October 21, 2009 12:48 PM

@ Jay

The Superintendent said on a August 5th meeting with TOC parents: ”There will be small groups. There will be. That’s what I’m saying. There will be translation.” It is clear that this was not about printed materials but about interpreters (why otherwise “groups”). And translation is being done by translators.

He ‘announced’ that during the meeting to the attending parents. Announced might be to strongly giving it a public air it never had, so do you want me to stick with “promised”? I intended it as Dr. Mayo “voiced his plans”. Ok, my intension failed. But that does not take away anything from his statement.

But we should not go into semantics. Why – English is not my first language! And by playing this semantic game you prove that there is a need for approved interpreters. Although my English seams sufficient I struggle to find the right word expressing what Mayo did at that meeting (I searched dictionaries for the right expression I could give you in a heartbeat in my native tongue). Do you understand what the problem is here? It is about fluency and verbal power in a foreign language. Even my not so bad English allowed you to distract from the not kept promise.

Why did the Superintendent not inform TOC at the end of August that he could not fulfill the translation commitment/agreement/promise, out whatever good reasons there are? That would have been cooperative and taking the issues of the other side seriously. TOC would not have done the rally. While TOC has to justify its actions, when does the school administration explain its inaction?

Posted by: RL | October 21, 2009 6:58 PM

First of all,TOC has always made it a priority to translate and if you look at the history of TOC, it was started by parents who were having issues with the school system. TOC is and has always been about parents, not public stunts, and if the parents in TOC decide to vocalize what is going on in these "meetings" with Dr. Mayo and his staff then they do. Dr. Mayo turns into a she-devil if you question exactly what he is doing for the amount of money he makes, I have seen this with my own two eyes. Parents deserve to know and hold him accountable, the fact that the schools are FAILING speaks for itself. So at the end of the day parents, just remember that your kids are going to be the ones suffering from lack of education when its time to go for jobs (and the economy is already bad enough)! There are people who come to New Haven to get educated, and if the kids who live here aren't getting educated,then they are not going to be able to compete and the vicious cycle of poverty will continue, even worse for those who lack education. When are parents going to start questioning what is going on in New Haven?? I mean this is ridiculous. I encourage parents to start asking questions and see how "nice" Dr. Mayo and his administration play then, and you will understand exactly why TOC deals with this administration the way that it does.

Posted by: streever | October 22, 2009 7:36 AM

Hey folks,

not picking a side

but honestly,
if we want our citizens engaged in the school, and we pay lip service to engagement with a resident ID card,
shouldn't we at least provide translation at orientation?

How else will these parents be engaged & part of our culture & community?

I understand TOCs frustration. Maybe they should apologize for their strong language & move forward, but, I DO understand their frustration.

It's no different than a lot of us engaged in working with the city on things feel. New Haven is slow to change and the goals are so distant it is easy to feel frustrated.

So let's not bash a group of concerned parents, who may not be good at diplomacy, but instead ask ourselves:

"Why isn't there translation available for the first interaction parents have with their children's teachers/school system?"

and then let's make it so

Posted by: Streever Knows All | October 22, 2009 8:57 PM

Streever:

There is translation in the form of fully translated orientation packets at every orientation. Have you ever gone? Did not think so.

There are many bilingual staff who further assist parents when the request is made for help. Have you ever seen a request denied, did not think so?

There are 2 dual language schools for God's sake. Should they be translating in a third language to make you happy?

Let me put it in your terms. This is like a new group called TOB (teach our bikers forming) claiming that NOTHING has been done to effect bike lanes and safety issues in the City. The fools who run the City Cyclist program lied to them about putting bike lanes on Orange Street and they want them. (Note that this group's funding would come from the oil industry).

Your response would be what?

A) Hey that is a good point we need bike lanes and someone to step up and make some changes around here.

B) Hello, we have bike lanes on Orange Street and have an organization that is already advocating on this issue why don't you join us. Not only did we not lie about it, but look at those white lines and pictures of cyclists over there it is a bike lane.

...

Posted by: Get it Right | October 25, 2009 2:20 PM

RL:

Please get your facts straight: TOC was NOT started by parents but instead by Gwendolyn Forrest, a college educated young white woman who is not from New Haven and has since moved on to greener pastures: http://comm-org.wisc.edu/pipermail/colist/2008-May/005071.html. The group is now led by a Yale graduate with no known roots in the community. Given their overly confrontational, amateur tactics it is hard to believe that this group is really acting in the best interest of poor kids of color.

I look forward to a time when parents of color are not propped us a puppets, carrying out the agenda of outsiders and being made to look like fools in the process. I welcome the day when grassroots organizations such as TOC are genuinely led by local parents, who are able to effectively articulate their own demands in a way that produces results for their kids rather than ridiculous headlines in the newspapers.