New Haven Independent

Posted by: Walt | November 24, 2009 9:31 PM

Good for her. About time.

Posted by: Boot | November 24, 2009 11:45 PM

Congratulations fellows. You worked hard. You studied hard. You deserved it. You got screwed by liberals. You fought back. You won. YOWZA!!

Posted by: Taxed to Death | November 25, 2009 8:22 AM

With $1,000,000 each in damages thats $14 million. Add in their additional pay and attornies fees this will work out around $20 million. This year the city is already in the hole by $19 million. Then there' s the teacher's and the police new contracts with 3% pay hikes. Now your mayor again, DeStefano, please tell us where you'll get the mullah. Looks like a 10% property tax hike to me. Thank You.

Posted by: Pleased for them | November 25, 2009 10:08 AM

Congratulations...

Thanks to King Johnny and his cronies, we taxpayers will be on the hook for millions in back-pay and other damages. Thanks Johnny. Glad I'm outa here.

Posted by: john | November 25, 2009 10:30 AM

congrats, sirs. well deserved and done.

@boot: don't confuse the forces at work in this case with "liberal"(ism) of any type.

Posted by: QQ | November 25, 2009 12:12 PM

I agree that the fire fighters who scored should be promoted, that is the way of the land. This case was about a few people not getting what they want, period. Let's not forget the 10 fire fighters who did not sue including 5 minorities. The list needs to be centerfield in order to promote those who participated in the law suit. I am certain there must be a statute that stipulates that ALL those who passed be promoted. If this does not happen the city is opening themselves up for a laigitment law suit. Knowing the city of New Haven, they will not give these Fire Fighters any back pay, which lends itself to more law suits. This is not the end…watch for more to come. And it will not be the fault of any race, but the fualut of the city of New Haven for their unfair practices. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Everyone gets promoted and everyone gets back pay. The city should have certified the list from the jump and we would not be here today.

Posted by: Fair | November 25, 2009 12:50 PM

Hey QQ, those "other firefighters" didn't have the gonads to join the New Haven 20. They did not help, didn't join in the work or share the expenses of the case, nor did they spend all the time away from families and other pleasures to attend to the years of litigation like Ricci and the others did. Now they want to ride tail on the New Haven 20's hard fought victory? And they have the nerve to hold their hands out and make demands on the city? T...

Posted by: QQ | November 25, 2009 1:32 PM

Fair-
If you read my posting correctly you will see that I note that “if the city certified the test from the jump we would not be here” So here’s the deal. It was a chess game. Everyone sat back and waited to see who was going to sue first. With that said the New Haven 20 moved forward. So you are suggesting that because they sued they are the only ones who deserved to be promoted? I thought this was about the best of the best. Now I see it’s about money. I got you. Bottom line, regardless of the law suit the other fire fighters deserve their promotion and the 5 years pay they lost. You are missing my point. This is not about the law suit it is about the city and their irrational thinking. There is no guarantee the New Haven 20 will be getting any back pay or punitive damages. This is about a test, a list, and who passed. I fully understand your point, believe me. I believe in hard work and making sacrifices. Keep in mind that this is not a debate. It is about who passed the test, remember the best and the brightest. Are the other fire fighters making demands? Really what are those demands? I would be interested in knowing. Why don't you share. I have been following this case and the only people I see making demands are the ones who did not pass.

Posted by: Fair | November 25, 2009 4:15 PM

QQ - I'm not reacting to any "demands" that I know of, but only to your own post where YOU call for such goodies to be granted to those who did not sue. As I understand it, remedies and back pay are the right of a PLAINTIFF who won a lawsuit. Those who never claimed their rights were violated (and who were content with the city's action enough to say and do nothing about it and sit on their hands and their rights)are legally entitled to nothing. They should have sued - didn't - too bad... that's all I am saying. Why should the city's taxpayers start handing out money to those guys? The only damages due are to those whom the city is legally obligated under the civil rights laws.

Posted by: FireBuff1 | November 25, 2009 4:39 PM

Its about time the City of New Haven relaizes that the rule of JD is near its end. I can only wonder how much this successful action will cost taxpayers - millions I presume! But wait, they will institute new promotional exams for the FD and again only those who study will come out on top. Unless you take the test, have it corrected after you finish it and have a system in place that does not allow political interference or a CHief's say in the overall process, taxpayers will continue to be victim of the court of ruled by Johnny.

Posted by: QQ | November 25, 2009 5:49 PM

Fair-
Like I said, I understand where you are coming from. My point is this. The city of New Haven made a poor decision and those Fire Fighters who studied and passed should be promoted and back pay is owed. Let’s face it. There was/is going to be law suites regardless. You have no way of knowing what any of the Fighters intentions were/are. From everything that I have read the punitive damages will take place at a separate trail. The Supreme Court stated that the list be certified and the Fire Fighters promoted. There was no mention of money. Let’s not talk about the city of New Haven tax dollars that are doled out. I pay taxes in New Haven.

Posted by: The Professor | November 26, 2009 2:19 AM

Wow, there's a lot of venom being spit at the City of New Haven on this. It's not like there was a grave error in judgment made--indeed, if Sandra Day O'Connor either were still on the Supreme Court or had waited until the Obama presidency to step down, the City of New Haven quite likely would have won the lawsuit.

Isn't it enough to congratulate the firefighters that were promoted? Do we really have to rehash the arguments that took place this summer?

Posted by: TAX THIS | November 26, 2009 6:48 PM

Hey TAXEDTODEATH, before you go whining about the teachers' contract, check your facts. If you do, you'll see how many pay freezes teachers agreed to in the past 2 decades in an effort to work with the city. ...

Posted by: firebuff1 | November 26, 2009 8:34 PM

To the Professor: I guess you have never witnessed a stressful event that firefighters have been confronted with - something the average Professor will never be subject to in a "classroom." It is with great honor that firefigters everywhere take their chance with each time they respond to an incident. It is with their classroom knowledge and practical experience that allows them to expend energy and pass legal tests successfully. I don't know of a Fire Officer in New Haven or elsewhere, that performs to their highest level of expertise by sitting in a chair and hope their "professors" knowledge penetrates their cranium and make them a fire officer. Just keep the local politics out of the protecting the public and hire people that can make it as fire service leaders as they progress through the ranks without a helping hand!

Posted by: anti-professor | November 27, 2009 9:21 AM

Whoever this "professor" is should really ...spare us his "insight" into what he (wrongly) thinks would have happened had Sandra Day O'Connor still been on the court. He dishonestly suggests the city just made an innocent error. ... New Haven officials engaged in deliberate and intentional race discrimination for political purposes. If the "professor" does not think that is a "grave" error, then he is lacking in basic morality.

Posted by: Walt | November 27, 2009 11:12 AM

Seems to me all the firefighters who qualified should be promoted if they would have been if the list had been certified, whether or not they were among the suers.

Those who did not participate, if promoted would owe a major debt, probably not legally , but morally, to the fighting 20 who won the battle for them and should voluntarily toss in belatedly for the suit expenses..

The attorney who won deserves major repayment via the new suit route for back compensation $$.

Hope the attorney who

Posted by: streever | November 27, 2009 12:37 PM

Professor:

I disagree. Strongly. The case would have been the same, and as a card carrying liberal, I wish it were otherwise.

The city failed to do due deligience: this is not a case about racial rights, but about the cities responsibility to do it's own work. They had a test which they had paid extra for to be "race neutral", and instead of having a FREE evaluation done, they rushed to judgement.

Now we all pay for that mistake, and DeStefano has never apologized. I think that's wrong, personally, so I can understand the ire at him, but agree with you that people shouldn't be so venomous in their posting.

Upset and wanting an acknowledgement? Yes, but it's not a clear cut case of liberal vs racist... it's really a matter of due process and following the law. The city panicked and made a mistake--as we all have--and hasn't admitted it yet.

Posted by: DingDong | November 27, 2009 2:37 PM

The City's got nothing to apologize for. The Supreme Court changed the law on affirmative action. It used to be not only allowed, but practically required if you wanted to avoid a reverse-discriminat lawsuit. Now it seems affirmative action is unconstitutional, or pretty close. The constitution used to require racial justice, now it requires racial neutrality... Say what you want about whether you like that, but you can't blame the City for not knowing the law was about to change.

Posted by: cap | November 27, 2009 3:11 PM

Streever is off base. The only "mistake" the city made was in ignoring undeniably job-related and valid tests for the sake of caving in to demands to discrimate against whites in order to indulge and favor non-whites. Streever tries to paint the case for Tinney & Co. Ain't gonna work.

Posted by: streever | November 28, 2009 3:43 PM

Cap: that's essentially what I said--I think you misunderstood my point.

Posted by: LtMike | November 29, 2009 9:49 AM

This was a case of the city screwing up point blank. King John and his band of cronies essentially did not like the results and tossed two exams. In doing so the city has created a multitude of problems. As the suits progress the mayor should be held accountable. In every step of the way the city has done wrong and I would venture to say in the future everything the city does (pertaining to testing, promoting, and suits) will be done wrong. The bottom line of this administration is that they are arrogant, make mistakes and try to move on like it's nothing. They cost us tax payers in almost every step of the way and it is tiring. For anyone to think his decision at the time and along the way was just a mistake is wrong. The mistake was the few people that showed up on election day to vote him back in. The good the mayor has done in the city is overshadowed by the people he stays loyal to and his strong liberal policy.