New Haven Independent

Posted by: Norton Street | November 2, 2009 12:32 PM

Richard C Lee was one of the greatest mayors in the history of the country. Please don't compare him to Destefano, I realize he is about to surpass Lee's years in office, but it's absurd to compare the two.

"and built community” in 'big and small ways.'"
Communities only get built in small ways, what these small things add up to is something big. Goffe Street between Orchard and Sperry, for example, was designed in a big way and it is a mutilated urban environment that can never grow or change. The neighborhood that was torn down in order to create the housing boxes was flexible, diverse and beautiful because it was developed over time, incrementally.
"the blossoming of community gardens"
You mean the flower beds that were placed on top of the graves of houses? Community gardens have their positive characteristics but they are also problematic.

Also, the term 'slum' is applied to easily to places with decaying or decrepit housing. If the Court Street rowhouses had been on Oak Street, they would have been considered slums. If the Henry Street rowhouses would have been a block to the east, they would have been torn down for the construction of Elm Haven. Most American slums of the early and mid 20th century could have been reworked to become desirable housing pretty easily. A 4 story tenement with 6 apartments could be gutted and turned into 2 or 3 apartments with new siding, skylights, and open floors plans and incredibly you have not a slum but a desirable place to live. This was the mistake of urban renewal and the mistake we continually make today.

Posted by: THREEFIFTHS | November 2, 2009 12:58 PM

Norton Street
I think one of the greatest mayors in the history of the country was this Man.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jan2001/obit-j06.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lindsay

In fact he laid the blue prints on how to run a city. But I do agree with you on King John.

Posted by: robn | November 2, 2009 1:03 PM

I've been skeptical of the mayors borrowing and selling off of hard assets to alleviate budget woes. However, its been pretty clear since Bill Dyson dropped out that he has nothing to worry about in this election so I think that his recent actions on schools are sincere. Nevertheless, I hope that we don't get whacked with property tax increases after this election. The next reval should show a increasingly dramatic imbalance of taxation due to overvaluation of now defaulted properties. The mayor better get ready for that, because East Rock, East Shore and Westville taxpayers are at their limits and there will be a bloody revolt if anything resembling the near triple digit last reval occurs again.

Posted by: Jon Doe | November 2, 2009 1:16 PM

What will DeStefano's legacy be?

1. The Man who invited illegals to N.H with his I.D Cards.

2. The Man who tore down the N.H.C

3. As a Bully that made gaps in our community instead of building bridges

Thats How I will remember him, and I prey that it is as soon as Tuesday Nov. 3

Posted by: bob solomon | November 2, 2009 1:19 PM

WOW! Norton Street - I have to admit, I am totally blown away by your comment about Dick Lee. You have consistently argued for New Urbanism, even posting Andres Duany videos. Dick Lee tore down Oak Street, built a highway in its place, built the Elm Haven highrises, spoke against but built other massive public housing superblocks, tore down much beautiful housing in the name of urban renewal, and built a massive downtown infrastructure at the expense of the neighborhoods. He wrote about the virtue of building residential and commercial highrises along the highway, to prevent white flight, resulting in some truly ugly structures along the connector. John DeStefano has spent years trying to reverse the worst of those decisions.

Posted by: The Count | November 2, 2009 1:37 PM

John DeStefano's legacy is secure: The first New Haven mayor in nearly 30 years to "cave" to East Haven over Tweed Airport. Tweed was winning its battle with East Haven over the runway safety areas with East Haven filing an appeal that mayor Almon herself admitted was "fruitless". The Federal Aviation Administration was even paying Tweed's legal bills! Then DeStefano decided to play Neville Chamberlain ... and promptly give away the store, East Haven's only concession was withdrawing the appeal they were going to lose anyway. He has personally derailed almost all hope of Tweed leaving city subsidy, with a 180,000 passenger cap and a 700-car parking space cap. When Tweed "maxes out" on both, the only alternative will be to raise Passenger Facility Charges and parking fees. It's too bad that those folks kvetching about Tweed's subsidy can't place the blame where it squarely belongs: At the feet of Tweed's opponents whose 1960s-era airport mentality have kept Tweed from being self-sufficient.

Posted by: Norton Street | November 2, 2009 1:49 PM

Bob Solomon,
What Dick Lee tried to do was admirable, and he was effective in seeking out his vision. Having said that, his vision was wrong and what he actually did was awful. He changed America's cities forever.
"John DeStefano has spent years trying to reverse the worst of those decisions."
That's the difference. Dick Lee did things; Destefano tries to do things. Destefano may eventually be remembered as a good Mayor, we'll have to see what happens. But unless he completely reverses what Dick Lee did, he will not be a great mayor. They are in separate categories.

Posted by: Bob Solomon | November 2, 2009 2:09 PM

Norton - thanks for your response I still don't get "one of the greatest mayors in the history of the country" and "what he actually did was awful." There are many people with vision who run into problems when they actually have to govern. I agree that Dick Lee's vision was admirable, but the result was not. History is full of good intentions and bad results. When it came to public housing, Dick Lee wrote some wonderful things, but was a major cause of building too many public housing units. Jonn DeStefano gets criticized for public housing, but the numbers tell a different story - during his administration, the number of units has been reduced to a more manageable (but still high) number, the worst superblocks (Elm Haven, Quinnippiac and West Rock) have been rebuilt or will be rebuilt with more traditional street grids, and the neighborhood schools like Wexler, Martinez, and Clinton Street have been increasingly integrated into the neighborhood. Based on your posts over time, I would think you would consider this to be progress and supportive of a new urbanisat agenda.

Posted by: Q | November 2, 2009 2:11 PM

Norton street...so if the mayor had run the city into bankrupcy while trying to pursue a fool's errand, he'd be a great mayor in your eyes? What if Dick Lee "tried" to remake oak street? We'd have a neighborhood still standing! Do we even want a "great" mayor?

By your calculation, you should certainly give DeStefano "great" status for his 1.5 Billion dollar school construction program. It was/is certainly polarizing and controversial, and has remade the city in many ways.

Posted by: Norton Street | November 2, 2009 2:45 PM

This is an extremely complicated issue, that cannot be done justice in a few posts on a website.

It is very easy to look back and judge something. I grew up in a broken city; it is easy for me to point out problems all day long. It has been much more difficult to come up with solutions and ways of enacting those solutions. If I had been around in the 50s and 60s I would have been supporting Mayor Lee because he was a massively charismatic person who was able to lead and make people become a part of his vision. He did help many people; he got residents out of cramped housing and into a much higher standard of living, he brought jobs to the city that replaced some of the dirty industrial jobs. He faced impossible odds and still managed to create places that are used to this day. America was in a post-industrial period when he came into office, the country was moving from a network of local economies to a global economy, the scale of living was changing, etc. Against these odds, he was able to guide all of America's cities through an extremely tough period in our history. His goals reflected the needs and desires of the day, and he delivered.
Unfortunately decades later, we have realized that our living arrangement has caused catastrophic problems. Less so the fault of Mayor Lee and more the fault of people in charge of laying out the post 40s suburbs. Instead of being designed around walking and mass transit lines, these communities were built around cars, so Mayor Lee had to provide infrastructure for these workers.

I don't so much advocate for New Urbanism as I do good Urbanism. There are many issues with New Urbanism that are often better than what they replace but still fail to stand up to traditional old neighborhoods. Elm Haven, for instance, would do fine in France. It wouldn't be a huge crime plagued slum, there are other issues with super block public housing than just design, which are not really addressed in Monterey place of the new QT. I think Destefano's vision is not quite there yet. He's trying to address education without first solving the issue of children going to neighborhoods after school that are not furthering an education but rather impeding on it.

Basically, I think it is necessary to judge Mayor Lee an historically respectful way.

Posted by: Norton Street | November 2, 2009 2:46 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UqarPlVXXQ

Posted by: anon | November 2, 2009 3:11 PM

Good health is the cause of academic achievement much more than any of the new structures or the reforms that the Mayor is proposing.

The school lunches have gotten much better, but as long as kids can't walk to school, have no decent P.E. classes, parents can't get to PTA or teacher meetings due to lack of any transportation, clouds of pollution and noise roll into their homes from speeding highway-like streets, and people don't feel comfortable going out at night in their own neighborhoods, schools aren't going to go anywhere except downwards.

In the reform effort, please keep in mind that New Haven is dealing with real families that do not have access to even the most basic transportation and often do not even feel comfortable walking more than a couple of blocks in their own neighborhoods (primarily due to traffic and crime).

The schools have collected mountains of information on these concerns and I'm wondering why they keep ignoring them - maybe it is because it is not an issue that affects the better-off 30% of families in the system, who are most vocal?

New Haven is not dealing with some idealized family with two cars and a city-sponsored SUV like Superintendent Mayo. Perhaps the first serious "school reform" should be to sell it. Let's deal with realities and evidence, not visions for reform that are insufficiently comprehensive to succeed.

As Obama recently said - paraphrasing Burnham - "make no small plans."

Posted by: HewNaven?? | November 2, 2009 3:20 PM

Norton St.

Are you feeling ok today? I'm normally in agreement with you, but criticizing the community gardens of all things seems a little misguided.

Despite some errors, I think any effort to increase greenspace should be applauded.

In general, I'm a little split over DeStefano. Being a leader in immigration reform (i.e. the ID Card) is something I'm proud to be a part of as a resident. Rebuilding the schools and attracting new businesses has been pretty positive too. But the homeowners I've talked to are pretty mad about the tax increases over the past 10 years. I guess progress comes at a cost.

One thing I wish that Destefano would improve even more is transportation infrastructure that discourages personal motorvehicle use. He's proven that New Haven can be a leader in reform of immigration policy and more recently public education. Now is his chance to prove that we can lead the nation in developing a healthy, human-friendly community as opposed to a car-friendly one. It would be a true Model City!

New Haven is an ideal place for this to happen for many reasons. Make it happen John and we'll make you mayor for life!

Posted by: howbouthe20 | November 2, 2009 3:50 PM

What he done for the 20 that should be his legacy, faced with a loss at the supreme court he shouldn't be dragging his feet for these guys now.

Posted by: Norton Street | November 2, 2009 5:27 PM

I thought about it, and I think perhaps that "great" was the wrong term. Lee's work as mayor changed life in America in a dramatic way. His work to modernize New Haven was replicated and admired across the country; this changed the way we inhabit cities, how we organize our built environment, how we relate to places, how we study human habitation, etc. Lee was one of the most influential Mayors in history.
I highly doubt that Destefano, by the time he leaves office, will have had anywhere near the same impact. If Lee has never been Mayor, this country would be very different; without Destefano I don't really see the country changing that much.
So its probable that 'great' was not the correct word in describing my thoughts on Lee.
There is something very different about tackling the arrangement of life through infrastructure and scale of living space, and tackling something like schools and public housing. Things like schools, hospitals, housing, parks, etc occur within an infrastructure and a built environment. Destefano is mostly working within a landscape that was created by another person. Furthermore, schools are a by product of communities and neighborhoods.

As for community gardens, I think investing they are problematic because they are often placed in places where a house should be. I agree that greenspace is important, but this can be created by lining every street with rows of street trees and having flower pots hanging from window sills, and landscaped front lawns, and privatized rear gardens for every house. It is important that every neighborhood have several public green spaces that are within easy walking distance of every resident, and I think its also important that each resident have access to private green space. I see a problem with community gardens in the future because I have a feeling people will want to preserve them even when cities begin absorbing more of a population. If community gardens are seen as temporary then I have no problem, but I think that many people see these as little Wooster Squares, or little Trowbridge Triangles, when they aren't

Posted by: Funky Chicken | November 2, 2009 5:52 PM

As long as he dosen't continue to try and buildhis "legacy" with my tax dollars!

Posted by: Bob solomon | November 2, 2009 6:02 PM

Norton - I think you overestimate Lee's originality. His major effort around Oak Street, the Connector, and downtown was an attempt to replicate Philadeplphia's urban renewal plan of razing a large swath of the urban center and building Penn station and a hotel complex. Lee sent a team of "community leaders" to Philadephia and they returned endorsing the plan.

Posted by: meridenite | November 2, 2009 6:18 PM

The next 3 to 5 years will be very difficult for all mayors in Ct as state aid will be cut drastically and they will face enormus deficits. The larger cities will be hit the hardest. Destafano in particular as New Haven relies on state aid for 50% or so in their budget.

Posted by: Norton Street | November 2, 2009 8:07 PM

Bob,
The locations for building highways were mostly determined by HOLC's evaluation of the country's housing stock. In New Haven, most neighborhoods were poorly reviewed. Beaver Hills, for example, was not given the highest rating of "A" because there were too many Jews in the neighborhood (according to HOLC's review). Wooster was given a rating of "D" (the lowest grade) due to the heritage of residents and high density of housing located around the Sargeant Factory. This is the exact location where there is currently an interchange between 91 and 95. Most urban renewal mayors based their project zones around the "C" and "D" rated neighborhoods. There was no requirement to do so, but people generally accepted the study as being accurate so they used it as a baseline for where to build housing projects, highways and other large scale developments.
I am not saying the Mayor Lee was the most influential person in American history, nor am I even saying he was the most influential Mayor, he was part of a movement at mid 20th century that reshaped the country. In my opinion, what makes his particular involvement in this process so important, is that he represented such a small Connecticut city yet what was done in New Haven effected much larger places.

Mayor Destefano has done some great things, and may very well do more great things. What I see, however, is a person working within a box; a box that Mayor Lee created. If Destefano is able to turn the route 34 connector into a neighborhood once again that connects effectively with the Hill and West River and Dwight, then I would say he's punched through the box and stepped out of the shadow of Dick Lee. It is also important to begin the movement away from excessive highway usage towards more fixed path transport like rail, which would help elevate traffic issues in cities which would help open to door to a new wave of urbanism. If Destefano is able to lay the foundations for a revived urban center by the time he leaves office I would say the he was able to surpass Mayor Lee. If he is able to correct the problems of the modernization of New Haven, I would say that he will be seen as the person who paved the way for 21st century America. We'll have to see what happens.

Posted by: FD | November 2, 2009 9:10 PM

@Norton Street
You have some funny ideas about what was torn down during urban renewal. You say that Goffe Street between Orchard and Sperry was 'flexible, diverse and beautiful'...?? It was a smelly, rat infested old broken down poor neighborhood with run down, patchy looking buildings. Here are two pictures taken in the area before urban renewal...

http://images.lib.uconn.edu/cdm-cho/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/cho&CISOPTR=13459&CISOBOX=1&REC=2

http://images.lib.uconn.edu/cdm-cho/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/cho&CISOPTR=14490&CISOBOX=1&REC=14

Also, while you may complain about our community gardens on spots where houses should be, I would be interested to know if you have seen any other cities, such as Detroit or Bridgeport, which have huge tracts abandoned.

Posted by: anon | November 2, 2009 10:09 PM

FD: that section of Goffe may have had run-down buildings then, but at least large numbers of real people lived, walked and worked there. Nowadays it is a no-man's land worthy of Detroit. I would take those old photos any day over what awaits the pedestrian now.

Posted by: Norton Street | November 2, 2009 10:51 PM

FD,
You are the problem.
Here is the solution:
http://www.nhsofnewhaven.org/affordable-housing-development/recently-completed-houses/dixwell-newhallville/

Complaining about houses with chipped paint, broken windows, missing railings, leaking roofs, etc, is like complaining that your grandmother has wrinkles. Most of the housing in this city is very old. And wood frame buildings over time, develop small problems and if they go untreated become very large problems. This does not mean they should all be razed and replaced by semi-private gardens or sprawling housing boxes. Housing ages and from time to time needs sprucing up, and sometimes it needs total rehab. Demolition is rather the correct choice.

The photos you linked to are great buildings. The building at Charles Street was not a part of what I was talking about, it was part of the Dixwell Plaza redevelopment. But still, the buildings are nice. They are not in good condition but that can easily be changed with a rehab. The other house is actually really nice. The protruding eave creates a great shadow line, the detail on the eave is interesting, the proportioning of windows is straight-forward, the tone change from the first story to the second is a bit rough and not accented very well but its not awful, the entry is covered over head to protect from rain, and the little porch is detailed very nicely, the building as a whole is very nice and appears to only need cosmetic changes.
Whats more important than being brand new in a building is how it acts in a neighborhood. Buildings that abut the sidewalk, face the street, are detailed in interesting ways, over 1 story tall, etc are infinitely better than new housing that is placed randomly in the middle of a site, that looks all the exact same with no detailing, and no chance to change over time.

I'll say it again: if community gardens are meant to be temporary then they are fine. If they are meant to act like a permanent space, then they will look bad in comparison to places like Chatham Square, Wooster Square, Trowbridge Triangle and the other planned public green spaces around the city.

If you don't understand why this:
http://www.cthistoryonline.org/cdm-cho/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/cho&CISOPTR=13725&CISOBOX=1&REC=8
http://www.cthistoryonline.org/cdm-cho/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/cho&CISOPTR=14226&CISOBOX=1&REC=13
http://www.cthistoryonline.org/cdm-cho/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/cho&CISOPTR=14300&CISOBOX=1&REC=19

is better than this:
http://www.cthistoryonline.org/cdm-cho/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/cho&CISOPTR=13174&CISOBOX=1&REC=7
http://www.cthistoryonline.org/cdm-cho/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/cho&CISOPTR=13953&CISOBOX=1&REC=9
http://www.cthistoryonline.org/cdm-cho/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/cho&CISOPTR=13392&CISOBOX=1&REC=17
http://www.cthistoryonline.org/cdm-cho/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/cho&CISOPTR=14023&CISOBOX=1&REC=20

than you need to learn something about city planning, urban design, architecture, scale, the public realm, proportioning, etc.

Posted by: FD | November 2, 2009 10:56 PM

@Anon, the Florence-Virtue Housing and Goffe-Orchard Housing on Goffe Street between Sperry and Orchard Streets house a far greater number of people than used to live in (the beat up old small buildings in) that area before urban renewal. A larger number of 'real' people 'live and walk and work' there today, and they live in better conditions. Please check your facts.

Posted by: Chris Gray | November 3, 2009 7:07 AM

DeStefano is and will get help, as is already evident, from a Democratic Congress and White House much as Lee did when, first, Kennedy, then, Johnson held the top slot. He might well serve several more terms but my question is what then?

Dileto, much as I opposed him, at least groomed John to succeed him and early on he proved, at least, a good accountant who, at Ben's direction, put the Shubert on the road to financial sustainability as a trade-off for its city subsidy. You can't trust those artistic types with money.

If he shows he can now fill those pretty buildings with effective learning with his recent teachers' pact, he will certainly come out looking better than Lee who left a huge hole in the ground for a really long time as I was growing up, oversaw the genesis of social programs mostly due to community pressure in the form of boarded up downtown buildings, as precautions for further riots, and the forced flight of whole neighborhoods of ethnic "undesirables".

But, as Lawrence O'Donnell of MSNBC often says of Charlie Rangel, "he's such a nice guy." Lee was very personable.

As many posters here have called for, he needs to negotiate a new school administrators' contract, the current one of which appears to be New Haven's version of the "rubber room".

Posted by: Concerned Citizen | November 3, 2009 8:23 AM

If you are that concerned about the mayor's legacy, put an end to his "phase 2."

GET OUT AND VOTE!!!!

I'll be voting for Watley, she's a real and human alternative, and with a good staff she can accomplish anything.

DeStefano WILL RAISE TAXES OVER THE SCHOOL REFORM - MARK MY WORDS!

I'M FED UP WITH MY TAXES!

I'm voting for Angela Watley

Posted by: anon | November 3, 2009 11:29 AM

FD - I wasn't talking about that part of Goffe Street. I am very familiar with all of those developments. Do you prefer Florence-Virtue before or after the renovations?

Posted by: Jim Blunt | November 3, 2009 5:26 PM

I'm going to go ahead and stick my neck out there and call the mayoral election results:

Drum roll please...

And the winner is...

JOHN DESTEFANO!

Whoo Hoo! Let's celebrate New Haven!!

Does anyone know if JD has a son? I'm just asking because JD certainly won't live forever and we will need someone to take his place.

Perhaps his legacy will actually be standing up to evil and imposing US constitutional law by setting up the first monarchy inside the US. Come to think of it JD did declare New Haven's theme for 2009 "A City of Firsts." Coincidence?

King John and The Destefano Dynasty

I think I just came up with King John's next campaign slogan... or perhaps the name of a book chronicling King John's reign as emperor of New Haven and all of the beauty, peace and prosperity that come as a direct result of his rule.

Who among us can dispute his great accomplishments! Let us all now pay homage to our ruler, the emperor, King John Destefano and to all of his offspring. May the Destefano dynasty rule forever... if not over New Haven, then perhaps over a McDonalds franchise in Northern Maine... or Alaska.

Posted by: Tim | November 3, 2009 5:52 PM

Norton Street- Your comments about Community Gardens are jaundiced by you not being a gardener. If you think "nice trees and window boxes" is the same as gardening, you are sadly mistaken.

I can't think of a higher use for a lot that had a decrepit building on it that's is torn down and having people from the neighborhood growing flowers and fresh veggies for themselves. So please, bend over and get your hands dirty, you might just change your mind.

Posted by: andrew garrow | November 3, 2009 7:27 PM

his legacy is that in a time of apathy from both new haven's minority communities and bussinesses this smug, sarcastic man allowed a school system to continue to fail while the superintendent got raises, the school board was not elected and billions were wasted on buildings where nothing was learned.

Posted by: Mechevarria | November 3, 2009 10:37 PM

OMG.....I can't take it. What I really want to know is, why in God's name are there no term limits in New Haven. I am so absolutely sick and tired of DeStefano.

This man places his people in positions in other agencies, namely the Housing Authority, in positions where they have no clue how to run things.

If you doubt it, go ahead and ask the 3 top people in power there, except Jimmy Miller because he does know, how does the Housing Authority determine a client or participant's portion of the rent?

Um, they'll just give you the extension of someone in the 1st floor. People, if you don't know how to put a key in the ignition, what makes you think you can drive?

Posted by: TheVin | November 4, 2009 8:13 AM

"Next Term Will Determine Mayor’s Legacy" So in other words, after 16 years he still has no legacy, or a weak one at that. Oh yea, he sure does deserve an 8th term in the quest for a legacy. You leftys are libtards for sure.