New Haven Independent

posted by: walt bradley on April 4, 2010  4:10am

i don’t miss living in new haven

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on April 4, 2010  4:01pm

I know right, Walt. I hate it when I stand outside on Derby Ave at 12am and get stabbed, and then walk over to the Hill at 3am and get shot. Oh wait-that’s right, I don’t do that. And most of the crime has no effect on my quality of life just as it shouldn’t for 99% of the city who are not actually effected by this, but like you, convince themselves it does effect them.
Should people who live in Whitneyville be scared because there’s too much crime near them? No, so why should someone who lives in New Haven, but further from high crime areas that Whitneyville residents like Morris Cove be more scared? They shouldn’t. Using the imaginary lines in the ground to justify illogical fear does nothing worthwhile.
Crime does actually effect people in this city and there is too much crime, but we need to have worthwhile discussions not meaningless drivel.

posted by: knowledge on April 4, 2010  8:38pm

Wake up people this is so said,people are dieing for nothing. we need help in the world these kids are in a sad state of mind

posted by: urban combat zones on April 4, 2010  10:13pm

Hey J. Hop, the mill rate knows no neighborhood boundaries.  and living in New Haven doesn’t do much good when it comes to getting a car insurance quote either.

posted by: James on April 5, 2010  9:25am

You’re so right, Hopkins. I mean, last Saturday night was a beautiful night, so I decided I would walk home from an evening downtown. I mean, one of the great benefits of living in the city is that you don’t have to depend on a car, right? Great exercise, too. So I just started strolling towards home, and when I got into Newhallville, I just took the secure pedestrian overpass that allowed me to bypass the parts of the city that don’t effect me. Oh, I also enjoy riding my bike home from work, sometimes at 9 or 10PM. If it wasn’t for the overpass, I might be concerned that a white dude in a suit carrying a laptop down Dixwell might be a problem. But luckily crime in neighborhoods where I don’t live doesn’t affect me. Oh, and next time I get mugged on Elm after an evening of beers with some friends, I’ll let my assailant know how glad I am that I don’t harbor any “illogical fear.”

posted by: street smarts on April 5, 2010  1:26pm

I don’t care where you are. If you travel after dark with a laptop, ipod, insert expensive device here you do so at your own risk.  I wish things were safer in new haven. Especially for the young people caught up in this violence. I think what JH is getting at is that the insane focus on poor victimized Yale Students and white collar workers who get mugged jogging at night with their ipod or riding through newhallville at night with a laptop is overplayed. I agree, you should be able to go where you please and never fear getting robbed, stabbed, shot, whatever, but the real concern should be weighted far more heavily on New Haven youth. They are at ground zero in terms of violence, even those who try to steer clear of trouble, and they’re taking the brunt of the situation.
You need to keep yourself safe in New Haven or move, and focus your energy on supporting proactive solutions like improving schools and providing drug treatment services rather than having a “poor victimized me” approach. We’re the adults in this city, we need to put the kids first (listening to them is a great start).

posted by: ChuckP on April 5, 2010  2:45pm

Jon, seriously, if you have no fear or feelings about people, some of which are kids, being gunned down in the street, you really need to seek some help.  They may not be in your neighborhood, they may be out at times when you’re not and they may be involved in things that you aren’t, but they’re still people.

posted by: streever on April 5, 2010  2:47pm

That’s a little silly James. I lived in the Hill for almost 3 years with only one minor mugging attempt, which I was able to resolve while keeping my money.

Having lived in New Haven for 6 years now, that is exactly how I live: I bike & walk, oftentimes I walk around my neighborhood as late as 10 pm, and have only had one incident in 6 years.

By and large, New Haven is safe. That doesn’t mean we can ignore or forget about the rest of the residents who are in danger, but I don’t think personal safety is really a good reason to move to the suburbs. The reality is if you can afford to live in the ‘burbs of CT you can probably afford to live in a safe neighborhood in New Haven, so it is an irrational reason to flee.

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on April 5, 2010  4:30pm

We need to have more informed and intelligent discussions about crime, how to interpret crime rates and how to enact solutions. That is my main point.
In order to evaluate crime statistics, one must think differently than they do when considering specific incidents. So ChuckP, my comments were about the general notion that specific crimes that occur at a location and at a place should not be used to interpret the threat of general crime in an area as large as New Haven. I have lost some friends to violence and to auto accidents; I’ve also been unable to keep up with many of my friends because they have either moved to another part of the country to live with relatives to get out of New Haven, have decided to live where they go to school, or they have stayed in New Haven but begun to hang out with a crowd that I don’t connect with. Instead of using my time to feel sorry for the next generation, many of which are just like I was and are going through what I experienced, I prefer to invest my time in enacting and developing solutions that allow future generations to avoid experiencing the types of loses and tough decisions that people before them did. I just don’t see how “having feelings” for people that I don’t know does anything productive. Should we sit around and cry all day for the million people on earth who just starved to death in the last 5 seconds? Most of my friends no longer live in this city; I don’t need to feel bad about another person getting killed or moving, I can just use what I’ve experienced to do something productive.

James,
In your post you begin to look at crime and interpret it more intelligently than most people. In order to understand how an individual is affected by crime people have to look at their personal habits.
Where am I going?
How am I getting there?
How long will it take to get there?
How long am I spending at my destination?
Am I going with other people?
Then looking at crime statistics for the route, at the destination and compare it with the dates and times of the incidents is a great way to get an understanding of the actual threat. It doesn’t need to be a formal study, just common sense, generalities and basic knowledge of crime stats.
Your example of someone walking or biking around late at night through Newhallville probably on Dixwell Ave doesn’t sound like the best idea, but let’s look at the stats. As an example, let’s say that a week ago there were a mugging on Dixwell Ave at 11:30pm, which happened as a result of a long time feud between two known parties. Maybe 2 weeks ago there was a mugging at 3am on Shelton Ave a block from Dixwell that involved a gun and two strangers. Perhaps a couple days ago there was a non-life threatening shooting at 7pm on Sherman Ave a block from Dixwell that involved two people who knew each other. Maybe yesterday morning there was another shooting at 9pm on Dixwell that put a person in critical condition, and neither party knew each other. There may have also been a hand full of car break ins and burglaries, some of which were planned and some of which were crimes of opportunity.
Let’s say that biking is the perferred choice. Let’s determine the condition of the roads and the chances of popping a tire and having to walk a portion of the trip. If it’s the weekend and we know crime usually goes slightly up, is there a real threat worthy of calling a friend for a ride or taking the bus? Is the threat so intrusive on one’s life that it warrants permanently moving residency or completely changing habits?
Most likely, a shooting in the Hill at 3am doesn’t have anything to do with riding a bike along Dixwell Ave at 7pm 3 weeks later.
I think that if people look at this more intelligently, we could determine that they are much safer than they are lead to believe by obsolete methods of interpreting crime and applying it to their daily lives.
I’ve been in many situations where I’ve weighed my options of walking home at night, taking the bus, calling for a ride, etc. There have been plenty of times where I’ve thought the risk is not worth taking. People do this all the time for many things in life.
I encouraged some of my friends to leave New Haven, because I could tell that if they stayed they were risking their relationship with their family, their life, their potential, their job, etc. I am not against making decisions based on crime’s effect on people, I am merely suggesting we understand crime’s actual effect more intelligently.

posted by: Paul on April 5, 2010  4:34pm

There aren’t that many arteries from downtown New Haven to its further reaches. I work downtown and bike, often at night. I can’t really take Dixwell - it’s simply too dangerous. Winchester is out of the question. Whitney is fine, but so out of my way. The other options aren’t great, but they’re good enough.

It’s distressing to see that someone was murdered on Derby. It’s tragic for the victim, and for people who want to both be safe and feel safe.

The comment about crime not being a problem if it doesn’t happen to you is so stupid it burns.

If major thoroughfares in the city are too dangerous to use after hours, it’s a serious problem.

posted by: Dixwell's not so bad on April 5, 2010  5:25pm

Paul,

I’d have to disagree about Dixwell as a dangerous artery. I bike to my girlfriend’s house on Bassett Street from downtown straight down Dixwell, sometimes as late as 11 or 12 at night. I’ve never had a problem. However, I do notice a distinct difference in behavior after 1 or 2am, especially on weekends. I try and stay off any road after midnight. It seems like drivers get progressively more violent and policing also drops off dramatically. When people are out partying and drinking I seem to have more close encounters. How about ramping up late night patrols and traffic checks? You’re almost guaranteed to catch the bad dudes at night. Of course, I wouldn’t want to be the cop pulling these guys over. But then again, you knew what you were in for when you signed up, no? Sometimes you gotta put your crap-kickin boots on. Let’s go, NHPD! Start kickin butt! People are fed up with the violence, whether they live directly in the afflicted area or not!

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on April 5, 2010  8:44pm

I think I may have gotten carried away on this one…
We shouldn’t group incidents together that have no real connection and use these false groupings as a way of demeaning an entire city or justifying irrational fears. And I shouldn’t have gone on as much as I did because I think that some of my comments are inappropriate in the context of an article about someone’s child, brother, nephew, etc who’s been killed. Although I do stand by what I’ve said, perhaps I did not properly articulate my opinion and perhaps that opinion was misplaced and ill-timed. I got lost in the idea that understanding how crime actually effects our lives at individual levels is important and I realized that this is a time for reflection and grief for family and friends, not an opportunity to make comments that would better belong on an article about quarterly crime reports.
Although I do stand by my comments, I apologize if they were offensive in this context to anyone.

posted by: Paul on April 6, 2010  8:14am

Hopkins-

What the hell is a “non-life-threatening shooting”?

And why should I feel better about these types of shootings in my urban neighborhood?

“Oh, don’t worry, honey, it’s probably a non-life-threatening shooting. Nothing to worry about!”

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on April 6, 2010  1:22pm

Paul,
A non-life threatening shooting refers to a wound that is categorized in a hospital, usually for wounds in extremities as opposed to a wound that effects vital organs.
I never implied that non-life threatening shootings are not something to be worried about, it was simply a way of characterizing the wound-you’ll notice many of the shooting incidents are these types of wounds, which usually means that the two parties knew each other and it was a personal matter. It is up to the individual to determine how crime effects them, the generic list of crimes I gave above were up to you to interpret, I am not saying either way if they are substantial and warrant fear and avoidance.

posted by: William Kurtz on April 8, 2010  10:24am

Mr. Hopkins,

That was an articulate and reasonable discussion of the real vs. perceived risks of crime, and I would argue was entirely appropriate response to some of the comments about crime in New Haven.  Better to ignore the willful ignorance about the point you’re making that’s on display in this forum; any reasonable reader understands your meaning.