New Haven Independent

posted by: Threefifths on March 5, 2013  10:41am

The politicians are selling their souls for more votes.Politicians are supposed to do the will of the people, which does not include giving licenses in exchange for votes or party loyalty.

posted by: Solid45 on March 5, 2013  11:47am

Why don’t we ask the police and insurance companies about this?

posted by: Atwater on March 5, 2013  11:51am

Money talks, supposedly loud enough to allow elected officials to contravene our nation’s immigration laws. Undocumented immigrants (aka illegal aliens) should not be allowed to remain in this country and they should not be given drivers’ licenses. Instead they should be deported or allowed to stay only after paying fines and penalties (i.e. back income taxes, etc.).
The erosion of our immigration laws will only weaken our national defense and will suffocate our economy. It is time to reform our immigration laws but reform should not entail a general amnesty for those who illegally entered this country.

posted by: Kevin on March 5, 2013  11:51am

Without addressing the merits of the bills, I would like to commend (1) the public who attended the hearing for their patience, (2) commissioner Currey and her staff for staying for the entire hearing, which lasted till after 11, and (3) the translator, who did an excellent job.

posted by: Walt B on March 5, 2013  12:04pm

I have a few issues, first, will they need to pass and English proficiency test to take the test or will the test be administered in spanish.  and if the test is in spanish, will Polish, french, mandarin, Hindi, key Swahili and dutch tests be available? 
If the test is not in English and these newly licensed folks are speeding down i-95 will the know what the “danger ahead slow down” or whatever signs mean?
And of course, what about insurance… will the good rev. manship pay for any uninsured drivers (in which case they would really be ILLEGAL immigrants) who cause damage?
also, will these new laws and chance for advancement be available to our undocumented kinfolk from say, county Galway or fujian provinces well or do non spanish speakers need apply?

posted by: DrHunterSThompson on March 5, 2013  12:33pm

I think that they deserve in-state tuition, government grants, food stamps, fuel oil assistance, free health care, cradle to grave care in fact, free phones, happy hour prices all day, and free trash collection along with a drivers licence.

I also do not believe it’s looney to continue to elect our fine senator and representatives. Bravo!!

HST

posted by: jimjoebob on March 5, 2013  2:14pm

I doubt that the real Hunter S. Thompson, passionate advocate for the oppressed and friend to Oscar Zeta Acosta, would approve of the neo-Know-Nothingism on display on these comments.

Contrary to Know-Nothing doctrine, immigrants (documented or undocumented) do not present any kind of threat to public order, or any kind of intolerable burden on public services. (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Myths_and_facts_about_immigration_to_the_United_States)

The “problem” of “illegal immigration” is entirely in your heads. The *real* problem associated with the status quo is that the undocumented must do their best to remain underground, which presents very real challenges to public safety and order (such as having too many unlicensed drivers on the road). Real “immigration reform” would give law-abiding “illegals” some kind of legal status so that they do not need to hide, do not need to be afraid to report crimes, can become properly licensed to drive, etc.

posted by: Claudia Herrera on March 5, 2013  2:24pm

Atwater, Threefifths and Walt B:

Your answers are here, YOUR country, language, laws is not for you only. Latinos work very hard for minimal wages, pay taxes, buy products, pay rents, buy cars, wash your cars, and the list is endless of what my culture folks participate to this country.
You all talk so much about reality. Well here it is this is reality and politic. Just answer one of your questions.
Who made the difference in this last past presidential election? Why you think we are organizing our selves better and united? Why think we are looking careful for local authorities (mayor elections)? And you may not this, but why our consuls representative of different Latino countries are talking each other and coming together to these events?

As painful for you to accept and as much as biter your comments are against my Latino. community is going to be hard for any of you to understand that they you are asking for perfection and Latinos are here to stay.

One thing is for sure I’m not perfect and I will not be asking to any other culture to “fix themselves first” to be part of this community. I was there last night, mother whit children, people coming late from work they show up to support this effort.

posted by: Webblog1 on March 5, 2013  3:19pm

In view of the fact that CT. has complied with the requirements of the Real ID Act of 2005, there should be little problem with issuing driver license to immigrants in their present circumstance.However there are verification requirements all will have to meet.

See up-to-date Q&A regarding this subject here:

http://www.dhs.gov/real-id-faq-public

posted by: Threefifths on March 5, 2013  3:48pm

posted by: Claudia Herrera on March 5, 2013 1:24pm

Atwater, Threefifths and Walt B:

Your answers are here, YOUR country, language, laws is not for you only. Latinos work very hard for minimal wages, pay taxes, buy products, pay rents, buy cars, wash your cars, and the list is endless of what my culture folks participate to this country.

And black slaves helped build up America.In fact my people worked sun up to sun down.Your point.My inlaws are from the Caribbean Islands.They also work very hard for minimal wages, pay taxes.But they are also on the list become U.S. citizens.Also the great Cesar Chavez was a foe of illegal immigration.He spoke before Congress against illegal immigration and encouraged United Farm Workers Union members to report undocumented workers.

How Illegal Immigration Hurts Black America

With national unemployment hovering around 10 percent and black male unemployment at a staggering 17.6 percent, it’s just not true that undocumented workers are doing the jobs that we won’t do.

http://www.theroot.com/views/how-illegal-immigration-hurts-black-america

posted by: Webblog1 on March 5, 2013  3:56pm

Unfortunately, these POLS are playing on the fears and desperate needs of these individuals, not once to they say that CT is in compliance with the Real ID Act and therefore could start the issuance process tomorrow.

More complete Real Id Act documentation requirements here:

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/real-id-act-text.pdf

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on March 5, 2013  4:06pm

The pattern of immigration to the United States between Central Americans today, Southern Italians around 1900, Russian and Polish Jews around 1880, and the Irish around 1850 isn’t very different. If this were 1923, what Central American immigrants are doing today would have been legal, and if Southern Italian immigrants attempted to do today what they did in 1900, it’d be illegal.
If you want to take the Elliot Ness approach and say that we need to enforce the laws as they stand regardless of how ridiculous they are - then I can understand that. However, to support the completely arbitrary immigration laws as they stand seems silly to me, and your argument loses are credibility.
Undocumented immigrants do pay taxes - all of them except Federal and State Income Taxes. However, their incomes are usually so low that they wouldn’t pay taxes even if they were citizens and they would probably qualify for welfare, food stamps, etc. - things that undocumented immigrants can’t qualify for, yet help fund through payroll taxes that are withheld from their paychecks. Undocumented immigrants put a higher proportion of their incomes back into the economy than any other group and receive less in return than any group.

posted by: Atwater on March 5, 2013  4:52pm

Claudia Herra:
Your comments only address Latino/Hispanic illegal immigration. However, there are other nations in this world other than the ones that lie on the U.S.‘s southern border. Immigration laws help to prevent the migration of undesirables (i.e. criminals) into our borders.
My comments weren’t anti-Latino; they were simply stating that enforcement of immigration laws is requisite to governing a just, efficient and thriving society. I am a proponent of legal immigration, emphasis on legal.
There is a general attitude to paint all of those who speak out against general amnesty as racists or xenophobic. Most of us aren’t. Most of us are hard working citizens who only want the laws to be enforced equally. If a person wants to come to this country, whether they are from Peru or Pakistan, they must adhere to the laws of entry and immigration. If I were to enter into Guatemala illegally they would most certainly deport me, I see no reason why our nation’s policy should be any different. This isn’t about “race”, ethnicity or culture. It’s about the rule of law and the common sense application of that law to all people.

posted by: Kevin on March 5, 2013  5:24pm

@Walt B

With regard to your first question, the knowledge test is currently given in Albanian, Arabic, Bosnian, Cambodian, Chinese, English, Farsi, French, German, Greek, Hebrew, Italian, Korean, Lithuanian, Polish, Portuguese, Russian, Somalian, Spanish, Turkish and Vietnamese.
See http://ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=805&q=318042&dmvPNavCtr;=|41640|41679|#45457

However, everyone must pass the sign test, which is in english.

posted by: TheMadcap on March 5, 2013  6:21pm

Heck, I fully support this if for no other reason than the visceral reactions people opposed to this have. It’s the city ID thing all over again, the sky is falling, ect. I can’t wait until there’s another protest outside city all and when they start interviewing people it turns out almost none of them are from the city again.

posted by: Claudia Herrera on March 5, 2013  7:56pm

Threefiths

One. Cesar Chavez legacy STILL fighting for the illegal immigration to become out of the shadows and received the respect and benefits of being an American, try to understand a little bit the Dream Act that’s is going on now.
Black, Jewish, Italians, Irish and so many more beautiful cultures that I have the opportunity every day to talk, work, speak and exchange ideas, food, tradition and a lot more, all of them has my sincere respect,and I have to say that even when I do not understand some traditions that they all (we all ) bring whit our selves we learn to adjust and be part of our society.
Your comments for me sound extremist and lack of facts and you give your self the tile of speak you mind “very openly” by judging and dictating with out thinking on the families you are talking about have values and yes they may no even understand your point of view, because they are not coming having as a goal to ” still” your jobs.

Yes it is truth black community had a very hard time in our history and now you want to compare these less fortunate folks whit the ones that once were worst?
Please look outside of your box go to any other public school and see I OUR KIDS studying together and asked them if they are looking the skin color to pick a friend who they will eat lunch.
Please respectful I’m asking you to update your toughs.

posted by: jimjoebob on March 5, 2013  8:00pm

Atwater:
> enforcement of immigration laws is requisite to governing a just,
> efficient and thriving society

Says who? The kind of enforcement you’re talking about would actually make our society *less* just, efficient, and thriving.

> If I were to enter into Guatemala illegally they would most certainly
> deport me

Probably not. Guatemala has plenty of struggles with enforcing its own laws. I imagine that if you kept your head down, as undocumented people do here in the U.S., you could get away with it indefinitely.

> I see no reason why our nation’s policy should be any different.

I do: because our policies should be based on what we think is best, not on what other countries do.

I wonder how many people who are consumed with anti-“illegals” fervor are able to work up the same passion about the many other examples of selective enforcement of laws (and disparities in sentencing) in our country. Somehow selective enforcement is only outrageous to them when it is involves impoverished, nearly-powerless Latinos.

posted by: Walt B on March 5, 2013  8:03pm

Claudia,OUR country is for those of us who have assimilated into the American culture.  There is a huge wave of immigrants from central Asia, Africa and Eastern Europe who have all taken the time and effort to learn and USE english as much as possible - because it’s what people who come here and want to be included do. 
The Polish, Russian, Chinese, West Africans…. they all have maintained their identity and culture, but they all know they need to learn and speak english, why Claudia, is the spanish speaking newcomer population so against it? and why should it be THEIR language we all should accept to learn as a second language?

posted by: Claudia Herrera on March 5, 2013  8:39pm

Atwater

I’m whit you in one thing, most of us are a hard working people and I’m completely understand your statement about law enforcement,regulation and equability. The problem whit the Latino community is exactly that there is not a common sense of applying these laws.
Also race, ethnicity or culture is what it shouldn’t be all about but sadly it is. There are way too many folks from many other cultures that they are not even bother from ICE and other “legal emigration agencies” because they don’t “look Latinos”. IT is a big profile problems whit these laws.

Jonathan Hopkins

That is very truth, immigrant pay taxes and for all their concern they still paying Federal and state taxes and that’s because on every paycheck the federal and state portion coming out of their gross amount and on the way they rationalize that is because the same gross is definitely NOT the same the net pay.

But I’m sure I do not need to explain that, we all know the pain to see that for our selves. Now, trying to explain that to a group of people that work 7 days a week between two or even tree jobs? And still their kids do not qualify for a better education help. And at the end of the year they can not filed their taxes, while many of use may be making plans to how to use our “tax return pay check” and that is the ones we don’t have to pay back. 

And yes you said well the pattern of immigration to the United States now is Central America.

posted by: Claudia Herrera on March 5, 2013  9:31pm

Walt B

I not sure about your comments of learning the English language, what’s the problem? do you want to learn to speak Spanish, Italian or Chinese?  I’m proud that my son who’s speaks both and he wants to learn another language. 

And you can laugh but as a Spanish speaking, I had found my self in different occasions when I’m translating to some patients in some of my jobs with my Spanish/English acknowledge I’m trying to help Portuguese, Italian and Australasian with a bigger accent that my with their English! At the end we laugh because some how we end it up understanding each other and we deliver the message to the doctor. Is this beautiful or what?  :-)

And it dose not bother me to help to some one who needs help even if I’m not in a medical field and I’m not getting payed to do so.

posted by: Atwater on March 6, 2013  9:35am

@jimjoebob:
Justice means equal enforcement of the laws. If amnesty is given then most of the people who would benefit would be South Americans, Central Americans and Mexicans. This is unfair to all of the other immigrants from India, Pakistan, China, Japan, Ireland, Spain, etc., who followed the laws in order to gain legal entry. It’s also unfair to the thousands of Central Americans, Mexicans, and South Americans who came here legally. It’s like telling someone who stole a car that since they didn’t get caught they could keep the car. Immigration laws also help stem the influx of people into this nation, which helps stabilize employment levels and also helps us calibrate appropriate levels of social welfare programs, etc. A country with open borders (which doesn’t really exist) would only descend into the chaos of an ever fluctuating population.
Sure, other countries have issues with illegal immigration (such as Guatemala) but, most countries do actively pursue an immigration policy which is enforced equally. The point was/is that any modern nation has in place laws which limit the number of people who can legally enter, live, work, etc., in their country. The U.S. should not be expected to abandon such a policy. As I said before, this isn’t about “race”, ethnicity or culture, it’s an economic issue and it’s an issue of a cogent legal code which is enforced equitably.
Once again the argument is being narrowed and any person promoting a non-amnesty policy is labeled “anti-Latino”. This is an extremely ill informed generalization. Whether or not the people come from our southern neighbors or from the Middle East, Europe or Asia, everyone should be subject to the laws and policies regarding legal immigration, without exception.
I do not doubt the work ethic of the people who come here, I have seen it firsthand. But, we should not ignore the fact that their being here is a crime in itself. They broke the law, plain and simple. This country loves hard working people from all countries, this will never change. But, we must ensure that equilibrium is reached and to do this we must enforce our immigration laws.

posted by: Threefifths on March 6, 2013  11:12am

posted by: Claudia Herrera on March 5, 2013 6:56pm

Threefiths

Your comments for me sound extremist and lack of facts and you give your self the tile of speak you mind “very openly” by judging and dictating with out thinking on the families you are talking about have values and yes they may no even understand your point of view, because they are not coming having as a goal to ” still” your jobs.

Lack of fact.Look across this country and then get back to me about the lack of facts.The fact are there.

Yes it is truth black community had a very hard time in our history and now you want to compare these less fortunate folks whit the ones that once were worst?

It is you with the lack of facts.Nothing has change for Black people.In fact Latino gang members in Southern California are terrorizing and killing blacks.East Haven Police were terrorizing black people before the latino community came in the picture.Just like other ethnic groups use the existing immigration laws and become U.S. citizens How come they will not.

My bad.How about the inclusion of Afro-Latinos.

posted by: Claudia Herrera on March 6, 2013  11:26am

If you think we are not agreed whit our opinions, please listen to this Fl, governor. NPR 4min.

Politics, money, power, seems like at the end of the day that what’s dictate the Latino’s play card.

http://www.npr.org/2013/03/05/173559206/jeb-bush-may-have-changed-his-mind-on-immigration-with-2016-bid-in-sight

posted by: DrHunterSThompson on March 6, 2013  12:41pm

Atwater is right on. The issue is a well constructed, cogent set of laws that is applied equally to all aliens. Those of you that think this is some sort of race issue need to reexamine who you are and what your motives are.

There is a path to residency and citizenship - if it’s not working lets change it. But I don’t care if you are from England, Pakistan, mars, or Mexico. If you are not here legally there must be consequences.

HST

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on March 6, 2013  12:46pm

Walt,
It was very common for Italian, Polish, and Russian immigrants not to be fluent in English their entire lives. Their children, however, begin to bridge that cultural gap and by the third generation they are essentially assimilated. Same is true of Central American immigrants - this may be difficult to understand since many are still first generation immigrants, but there are enough second generation Americans for this point to be understood.

posted by: Curious on March 6, 2013  1:46pm

If you get pulled over for speeding and the cops find weed in your car, you have broken the law, and you can go to jail.

If you get pulled over for speeding and the cops find out you are in the country illegally, you can go to jail.

There is nothing wrong with that.  Why should being here illegally not be punishable?  The only reason people don’t like it is because there is a big Hispanic voting block, and political players are trying to pander to them.

The answer is not to make it legal to be illegal, which is what these folks are pushing for.  This is decriminalization of illegal immigration.  Millions of people immigrated here legally, nobody should get a pass because of their race.

posted by: jimjoebob on March 6, 2013  1:56pm

Why is “equal application of the law” only important when it comes to apprehending and deporting impoverished, hardworking “illegals”? I don’t see any of the commenters here who object to the drivers-license initiative getting worked up about the lack of rich (or even middle-class) people in our prisons ... surely that’s a more important example of unequal application of the law. What undocumented people are “getting away with” does not actually hurt the country, and in fact actually helps the economy.

The idea that all laws must be universally enforced on everyone is absurd, and, in this case, even disingenuous.

posted by: Claudia Herrera on March 6, 2013  2:13pm

Socials, economics and security subjects are complicated and extensive issues to address.
They are so important and carefully crafted that just to understand one this subjects I let you get overwhelm whit one Sociology (is one that fascinate me) 

A degree in Sociology lead to be deal and work in all of the following areas:

Criminal Justice- In corrections, rehabilitation, law enforcement, the justice system, parole system.
Business and Industry- Advertising, Consumer and Market Research, Management of Non-profit organizations, Human Resources, Training and Human Development, Leadership Training.
Research and Planning- Governmental and regional planning departments, research firms, evaluation research, public opinion research.
Agencies-Social Services, Mental Health Services, Adoption, Child Care, Youth Services, Developmental Disability Services.
Government- Social Science Analysis, Census Bureau and other federal agencies, Administration, Policy Analysis, Personnel, Homeland Security.
Education- Public and Private Schools, Colleges and Universities, Administration, Alumni Relations, Placement Offices, Educational Research.
Advocacy- Environmental, Child Welfare, National Policies, Victims Rights, Labor Rights, Community Organization.
Communications- Technical Writing, Newspaper and Magazine Reporting, Public Relations.

People we are NOT talking to give amnesty to criminals and terrorist.

Avoid the negative publicist of few and as the history have been prove to all of us. WE ALL ARE IN THE SAME ROAD soon or latter we meet at one point.

posted by: TheMadcap on March 6, 2013  2:29pm

Around 1/4 of undocumented people in the US are not from Latin America, any new laws applying to people from Latin America(which is actually a very diverse place, someone from Mexico in fact probably has very little in common with someone from Brazil, they don’t even share language!) would lo and behold apply equally to everyone whether they’re from Mexico or the Philippines. On top of it all, “control the border” is the most disingenuous red herring. The policies needed to deal with millions of people who already work and live here have no connection to the policies needed to enforce the border. “Hispanics won’t learn English or assimilate.” “Italians won’t learn English and assimilate.” “The Chinese won’t learn English and assimilate.” “The Irish know English but their papist ways will never be acceptable.”. Every generation it’s something new, and every generation it’s just as wrong and asinine as it was beforehand. You’re mad you have to push 1 for English just like people 100 years ago here were mad there were Italian language newspapers and radio broadcasts. Make any excuse you want, you’re being motivated solely by xenophobia unless you really think people are purposely not learning English just because it’s super-duper fun to live in a place where you can’t understand most people. You want to try it? Go live in Quebec for a week. Near everything is subsidized in English, all government services are mandated to be in both languages, and the good deal of people can speak it as well. Yet being an English speaker there is not so fun.

Stop trying to grasp at straws people to oppose what is not only legally and economically, but morally as well the right thing to do. If your only defense to fall back on is “They broke the law, and the law must be applied equally!!!”, congratulations, you not only have a juvenile sense of how the law works(hint: the law is never applied equally, I don’t mean rich vs poor, I mean our entire legal system is based around taking into account motives, circumstances and past history) and if we use Kohlberg’s stages of moral development, a juvenile sense of that as well, as you’ve still yet to reach the final two stages.

posted by: jimjoebob on March 6, 2013  4:02pm

@Curious:

> Why should being here illegally not be punishable?

It’s not currently punishable because there is no such crime as “being here illegally” (nor should there be, IMO). Therefore, the police cannot actually arrest you for this non-crime if you get stopped for speeding.

ICE is empowered by the Feds to deport people who do not have the proper visa status, but as a practical matter, if they actually sought out and deported everyone who could be deported, your fruits and vegetables would get very expensive, your hotel rooms would be dirty, and lots of restaurants would go out of business.

posted by: Atwater on March 6, 2013  4:46pm

@jimjoebob:
The answer to your question. This article is about illegal immigration, it’s not about the inequality of the criminal justice system, etc. And for the record I am all for equitable application of all of the laws of our fair nation.
Illegal entry in this country is a crime. We can’t ignore that. It seems like a cold argument to make, but our immigration policy has to be cold and impartial in regards to nation of origin, ability to work, etc. I don’t care if you speak English or not, you have to have the proper approved paperwork to come to this country and to work in this country. Millions of people fulfill their legal obligations in this respect, why should we allow those who shirk at it amnesty from prosecution and/or deportation? Why should we legitimize their crime? Why have immigration laws at all if we don’t enforce them?  If people in other nations feel so strongly about coming here then they should take the necessary steps to come here legally. Those who do not take those steps seem like they are trying to take advantage of our lax enforcement and liberal policies. Sure, most immigrants work really hard, but so what. They could’ve worked just as hard in filling out the needed paperwork, paying the proper fees, waiting (there’s a lot of waiting involved), taking the necessary tests, etc., so that they could be fully legal enfranchised citizens of the U.S.A.

posted by: Claudia Herrera on March 7, 2013  10:05am

Hi I just wanted to share this other part Latinos of some of you want or refuse to see immigrant as a broken laws.
This young Actress and political activist talk about Cesar Chavez.

America Ferrera on her role in Cesar Chavez biopic and voter registration

http://nbclatino.com/2012/10/24/cafecito-america-ferrera-on-her-role-in-cesar-chavez-biopic-and-voter-registration/