New Haven Independent

posted by: streever on January 31, 2011  3:51pm

Interesting. I still don’t know what to think of Limon. I see plenty of problems in the NHPD, and am frustrated that he hasn’t fixed them (and seems to protect some of the cops who were caught behaving poorly), but perhaps that is more just a reflection of how strong the union is, that no Chief could fix some of the problems?

Either way, Cavaliere has made some outrageous accusations against Barbara Fair in his statements. Fair is a committed community member who works hard to improve her neighborhood and our city, and she has earned Mr. Cavaliere’s respect.

Seeing her & Kevin Ewing come out in support of Limon makes me think more highly of him and question my own take to date. Mr. Ewing and Ms. Fair are great allies of the people of New Haven, and I highly respect their judgement and their viewpoint on many issues.

I just wish the event was publicized ahead of time! I would have come if I knew about it. Great work to all involved.

posted by: Entitlement on January 31, 2011  4:01pm

barbara fair for mayor!! this way we could get rid of the whole police department, and have 1,000 murders in a year. let’s let our “peeps” run wild and do what they want to.
...

posted by: webblog1 on January 31, 2011  4:07pm

This protest march and/or rally are pure nonsense and grand standing by Graves and ET AL.

“The activists have shown up at 1 Union Ave. before—to rally against cops accused of brutality. This time they showed up to support the department’s top cop instead”.

The fact that they had previously rallied against cops accused of brutality, at the same time they complained that internal investigation was not taking and that Limon was not demanding action or punitive action, proves how their positions are diametrically opposed and stupid.
Many in this crowd supported Chief Lewis and his implementation of the perf reforms of the police department. The community, the union and this crown were satisfied with Lewis’s results.

Chief Limon comes into office and immediately starts dismantling many of Lewis’s perf directed goals which had the immediate effect of disrupting the new found… by the book operating style of the officers on the street.

Not one of these complainers have every snitched on a suspect, although they live in, and witness, the violent crime that flourishes every day under their noses.

The issue at hand is a management and union matter which is negotiable under the terms of the contract.

If Limon had management skills in a union setting, (which he does not) then he would have resolved this matter long before it reached this stage.

This crowd would do well to stay out of internal matters of the NHPD, which they know little of, and have no direct impact on.

posted by: robn on January 31, 2011  4:25pm

So again… why exactly do the cops need assault rifles? When is that last time the NHPD faced off with a paramilitary group? When is the last time they needed an effective range beyond 164ft? (Glock-17 pistol range) Maybe once in a blue moon? Whats the urgency and how is this such a big issue with the new chief?

posted by: roger huzendubel on January 31, 2011  4:32pm

its about time someone stuck up for the chief. Most of the people protesting the police seem to be yale kids and people who have no interaction with them, they simply just want to protest what they have been told are “gross misjustices” (steve winters, seth bannon for example). The black community has more interaction with the police so lets hear what they have to say.

posted by: zapp on January 31, 2011  4:54pm

I think the NHPD is in a better position to comment on the Chief.  As a minority officer, we seem to stand behind those people because they are a minority.  This does not mean they have our best interests at heart. There are deeper issues that the police department is concerned about, than the relationship with this community. There are numerous complaints filed against him with the union and those issues are what is being voted on. While he may be telling you what you want to hear,i think you should also listen to what the officers want you to hear.  Everybody can not be wrong.

posted by: HewNaven?? on January 31, 2011  6:05pm

So, how many times a year do New Haven cops actually fire their weapons? If it’s as low as I suspect, why would they need more fire power (AR-15s)!? Yet, this is one their main gripes with the chief: That he won’t give them their guns.

If 8 of 10 officers reside outside the city, and all officers are issued assault rifles, does that qualify as an “occupation”?

—Very Little Confidence in the Police Union

posted by: tactics on January 31, 2011  6:12pm

To Robn ..Go rent the movie “Heat” and pray that it doesn’t happen here.its best that you dont comment about tactical equipment when you are not a cop…

posted by: Rodney Munch on January 31, 2011  7:24pm

Although I dislike Destefano the thought of Clifton Graves or Anthony Dawson becoming mayor chills me to the bone. Barbara Fair Complains about the speck in the police departments eyes but misses the plank in her own. ...

posted by: People with nothing to do on January 31, 2011  9:07pm

Interesting you put this non important article when there are real issues to tackle like kids being cold in a class room with no heat…! Shame on you Paul for you over reporting of every single thing that happens with the PD!!! Bet your next story will be about officer’s taking too long when they poo in the bathroom or something….There’s a headline for you and the uneducated reader’s who leave there comments about issues they know nothing about… That gathering or whatever it was is a waste of time, breath and space… You wanna do real story’s do some research on all those people you have in the photo..I.  Your articles and news are becoming lame and the only way you’ll get people to read this dog poo you call a story is to sensationalize every single thing that happens at the PD… Get off the PD Paul and start doing some “REAL” stories like Why Yale does not pay this City of New Haven a dime in taxes for all their buildings as they continue to buy and over run this town.  The hard working tax payers of New Haven has to take on added burdens of paying for water running into a grate yet Yale pays NOTHING!!!  Lets do some real journalism and find out why this is and see what should be done to fix it so Yale can start paying at least a half a percent on all these buildings to alleviate the tax burdens on the hard working and the poor… There’s a real story Paul lets do some investigating….

posted by: JAK on January 31, 2011  9:09pm

“No Confidence” from Cavaliere and the union?  Thats all I need to know.  Chief Limon deserves the support of every New Havener.

posted by: City Dem on January 31, 2011  9:15pm

Quick! Someone please get Lou Cavaliere a spokesperson.

Not sure I’ve ever heard a man be so tone-deaf to the tax-paying public.

posted by: Deserve What?? on January 31, 2011  9:39pm

To JAK

Limon don’t “deserve” anything he should be earning things like trust, confidence and respect as it should be given to his Peers and subordinates… The thankless job that all police officers perform day in and day out is who you should be supporting… or maybe when you’re getting mugged or robbed next time Limon can respond and take your complaint….NOT!!!

posted by: People with nothing to do on January 31, 2011  9:46pm

Talk about freedom of speech and being censored… Thanks again Paul you want the right to report and say what you want on your articles yet you censor the comments of those who have real known factual comments about your Barbara Fair…! Shameful….! ....PATHETIC….!!! hope you don’t censor that…thanks.

[Note: We do not publish personal attacks about people’s families.]

posted by: Bill Heinrichs, Esq. on January 31, 2011  11:14pm

It disturbs me that the call for a no confidence vote so early in Chief Limon’s tenure. The Chief came to New Haven as the third leader of the Police Department within a couple of years, and he faces a mandate to bring about the recommended improvements which his predecessor also tackled. I would hope that a substantial majority of New Haven’s Police Officers stand behind their Chief and remain focused on the real mission of the NHPD: to protect and to serve and to make New Haven a safer community.

posted by: Paul Martin on January 31, 2011  11:37pm

The response of the union and NHPD posters here is always the same:

Unless you’re a cop, they don’t care what you think of their job performance, because only another cop is allowed to comment on cop things.

Rifles! They want rifles! And parades!

posted by: PD on February 1, 2011  2:26am

Barbara Fair you should do a ride-along with me and see how I work. Maybe do some motor vehicle stops and take a gun/drugs off the streets. Better yet, respond to a domestic violence and try to subdue a drunk male that Just beat the living piss out of his girlfriend or wife in front of his kids. Maybe then you could judge my profession.  “I’m sorry but I have to come home In one piece to my family”. And one more thing; Is it fair for the innocent person watching tv with their loves ones, have bullets go through their living room walls. Is it fair for me, a minority and a New Haven-er to see my own people killing each other over nonsense. Sorry to say but Dr. King must be rolling in his grave. I took advantage of what he worked hard for.  Let’s educate these kids to be productive and you will see a decline.

posted by: WOW on February 1, 2011  8:23am

I’m going to be as clear as possible so everyone can understand.  The use of tasers went up from the time the pd began using them because more officers have them now.  Get it?  You can’t use them if you don’t have them. 

Now, here’s another thing, am I going too fast?  The use of tasers has reduced the reports of officers being injured in the line of duty.  See, they don’t have to fight the arrestee, he gives up and complies, if you had a shot of the taser, you would too. 

Also, (let me know if I lost you yet), when you are fighting an arrestee, it takes a greater force than he is being to subdue him…meaning more cops, so it takes two or three to subdue without gross injury to an arrestee…gross as in big, not gross as in disgusting…

if you use a taser, there is no fight.

Get it?  Now, take a man who has bought some drugs from someone who lives, I don’t know, lets say, your house…he goes somewhere, uses the drugs, is high as a kite, and wanting to hurt someone…this person can be hit with a speeding train and would still get up…I don’t know about you, but the guy running naked, on a feb night thru the streets of dixwell ave high on drugs is not a guy who just needs a hug.

Or the guy who the narcotics officer tries to arrest, suddenly jams his hands in his pockets ....maybe he has drugs he’s trying to hide, maybe he has a gun he’s trying to shoot, maybe he just has a cold and wants to blow his nose with the kleenex with lotion in his pocket…I don’t know, but guess what, I’m not waiting to find out. 

And really, Barbara, I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your comment of when has the pd needed more firepower was ridiculous!  Other than when you are on tv, do you watch the news?  Manchester ring a bell?  That was right here in our state…that means very very close by, like not in another country (feel free to use lots of sarcasm here).  How about school or mall shootings?  You know, when some guy decides life did not give him the breaks that are his RIGHT to have…not earn mind you, just have, sound familiar? (quick note, yes I live in New Haven, born and raised, yes I pay taxes, yes I have kids I raise here, and yes I am a minority…)

anyway, to continue my story…
...he grabs several guns, usually lots and lots of ammo and decides to walk into a hospital, or downtown green, or school or the job that fired him for not coming to work and starts shooting people….hmmm, who are you going to call???  Oh, I know, call Johnny Boy and [Limon] and see if they are going to come to your rescue with a marshmellow gun or maybe they can ask him to sit down and share his feelings?  Maybe have a cup of tea and crumpets?

....or I don’t know?  would you maybe like a trained “cop” with a big high powered gun who can protect everyone the bad guy hasn’t shot yet?  Oh no, wait, we aren’t sensitive to your needs….we are a bunch of crooked thugs…I see rookies come out of the academy with eyes shining bright thinking they are gonna change the world…then they meet people like you who take take take, complain complain complain…and couldn’t care less if we take a bullet, but please, let’s not hurt your feelings while we do it….and you wonder why we are bitter?

posted by: bjfair on February 1, 2011  9:54am

@ people with nothing to do: You are free to post any disparaging comments(fact or fiction) toward me and my family on another news site. I appreciate the fact that Paul recognizes a distraction when he sees it. Fact: I am a hard working woman/activist who cares very much for the New Haven community and reach out whenever I can to help someone. Yes,I have a problem with police abuse of power and those who coddle them. I have nothing but praise and respect for officers who uphold the law even if it means they have to arrest one of mine(or theirs). If you must know I actually have quite a few friends within NHPD.Finally I could care less about the rants of those who hide behind screen names so find the “other site” and carry on. Only thing ....I read them less than 1% of the time.

posted by: Ex new havener on February 1, 2011  10:10am

To WOW….great response…you are so on the money..thank you

posted by: bjfair on February 1, 2011  10:17am

Two interesting stats given by Cavalier, 80% of officers live outside the community they “protect and serve” and of the entire rank and file only 123 voted “no confidence”. Note the reasons given for that vote and recognize that a whole lot more did not vote “no confidence”. I’m not responsible for either fact. I am however responsible for global warming, world terrorism,high unemployment,schools with no heat and books, gun trafficking and many other social ills.

posted by: HewNaven?? on February 1, 2011  10:29am

”...he grabs several guns, usually lots and lots of ammo and decides to walk into a hospital, or downtown green, or school or the job that fired him for not coming to work and starts shooting people….”

@WOW

Nice fear-mongering rant. That’s one way to get the people on your side.

What’s wrong with training a tactical unit to respond to such an incident, as you described? Why does every cop need a bigger gun? Is it to intimidate the public as during the nightclub raids?

You did a great job explaining the effectiveness of tasers in controlling excessive force and injuries to officers. No one is complaining about the use of tasers, as far as I can tell. So, why do you need more firepower if you already have an effective method to deter violence and simultaneously control suspects (i.e. the Taser)? Are cops paranoid about a possible uprising of some kind?

It just doesn’t make sense to compete in an arms race with street criminals. You should be working with the FBI and ATF to get illegal guns off the street. You don’t have to be an action hero to be respected by us.

posted by: JAK on February 1, 2011  10:51am

“Deserve What?”

You think retiring at age 52 with a guarantee of 75% of your pay plus 50% of overtime is “thankless”?. 

These rich, backroom retirement deals are actually bad for the police.  It turns the public against the cops who are the good ones. The union has taken advantage of taxpayers and citizens in many ways and it is tarnishing the reputation of individual good cops.

Case in point:  Your union argues to keep a thug cop on the force who lies about being sick, pees on a restaurant floor and then bullies a taxpaying business.  Then later you take no confidence in a chief that is cleaning up a huge mess in the department. 

There’s a problem with that.  But you don’t get it, do you? 

Until you vote out a union mentality from the 1950s, the good cops and the bad cops will all be painted with the same broad brush.

posted by: christopher schaefer on February 1, 2011  1:52pm

“Cavaliere argued: ‘Rank-and-file cops risk their lives in neighborhoods they don’t live in.’ His words pretty much sum up why New Haven will never have real “community policing” as long as only 13% of the force lives in New Haven. At least the chief lives here (in my ‘hood!).

posted by: notty on February 1, 2011  2:20pm

It appears to me that the community over all agree with a vote of confidence in the chief. I sure know I do. As Barbara Fair stated its not the good cops she is concern about, its the bad ones that union cuddle. At the end of the day, even if i dont like my boss, i need a job so therefore i have to do as i am told, like it or not and by the way if you dont like it there are other towns where you can be an officer and not have to deal with “this tough town called new haven”. Most of you officers complain about new haven, but wouldnt apply for a job in the suburbs and you know why, if you be truthful its because there isnt enough excitement there. The chief has been here under a year and this is the second attempt at a vote of no confidence. How can you have no confidence in a man who stepped into a department with a history of corruption. Most of your rank and file were around when this corruption was taking place and did nothing about it, maybe its your rank and file you should have a vote of no confidence in.

posted by: One of the 13% on February 1, 2011  5:26pm

Well I finally have to lower myself and respond to such ignorance, I’m sorry (to be politically correct) the word is “misinformed”.The commenter “WOW” said it perfectly and STILL the misinformed cant get it..The rifles are to be placed in our cruiser in case of a extreme emergency such as: Bank Robbery,Hostage situation,Burglary in progress ,Home invasion or a suspicious vehicle loaded down with people and guns…By the way every one of these situations happens at least once a day or every other day..(this is New Haven not suburbia) most of these situations have one or two cops responding. Most of the time we are outnumbered.Its nice to have a insurance policy in our cruisers to help us do our job.(or we would really need a insurance policy) but what do the misinformed care…Now, to HEWNAVEN , yes we have a tactical unit called a SWAT Team..They have and are certified to handle Assault Weapons..Now you would hope that the SWAT Team members are all working at the time of a crisis..Most have to be called into work,then they go to the SWAT truck and suit up with their tactical equipment and then they have to be briefed about the situation going on..Saying all that.. about 30 to 45 minutes to get all that done…Now while I’m waiting and you are screaming for me to do something. I will tell you that help is on the way..And all because I dont have the proper equipment to save you,your loved ones and myself from seriously being hurt or death…Read the papers folks..every day and night someone is being shot in New Haven..Did you ever get shot or shot at Paul Martin,its really going to suck if it happens to you..I have been shot at and was lucky they missed. I’m sure you never say that about your work or do you work?

posted by: christopher schaefer on February 1, 2011  5:54pm

Thanks for being one of the 13%!

posted by: bjfair on February 1, 2011  6:44pm

I think some people are just too fearful to be in law enforcement. Wow, some of the scenarios that you and your sidekick 13% speak to are so out there that I think you might be spending too much time watching tv. School shootings, mall shootings, snipers in hospitals and on the green in New Haven? smh. No problems in surburbia? And why is it that you are sacrficing yourself in New Haven? Wow: hope that wasn’t too much for you to digest.Were you abe to keep up? I’m aware that officers need only have a high school diploma to qualify.

posted by: HewNaven?? on February 1, 2011  7:00pm

“The rifles are to be placed in our cruiser in case of a extreme emergency such as: Bank Robbery,Hostage situation,Burglary in progress ,Home invasion or a suspicious vehicle loaded down with people and guns…By the way every one of these situations happens at least once a day or every other day..(this is New Haven not suburbia)”

So, I’m curious: If this stuff happens everyday, why don’t we hear about it? Why don’t we hear about hostage situations and bank robberies that were allowed to happen because the responding officers didn’t have enough fire power. I’ve never heard such a story. Shouldn’t someone be reporting those incidents? Is the Independent failing us?

I do hear a lot about murders related to drugs and gangs, and street robberies related to drug addiction, and domestic assualt due to drug abuse. But how does having more firepower prevent those types of crimes. It seems our best approach would be to get as many guns and drugs off the street to prevent those situations from repeating. But prevention is not necessarily a job of the police. They are only required to respond to crimes in progress, so you’re right maybe they should be prepared to deal with whatever comes. Tanks?

posted by: One of the 13% on February 1, 2011  9:08pm

To Bf-air..The most ignorant of all..as soon as you knew I was a cop you got ignorant..I just hope these people can see your true colors because the police do..Besides if you spent all that energy you have into protesting and spent a little of it on parenting..You might like what we do…Sorry for troubles.

posted by: to Robn and HewNaven from Wow on February 1, 2011  9:09pm

I know I’m beating a dead horse here, but I can’t help it, I have to try again….

Fear-mongering?  Really??  ...the ordinary “crooked thug” beat cop is the first responder, not swat.  Yes SWAT is highly trained and highly armed, they are a wonderful group of officers who have dedicated themselves to respond to the most dangerous of the most dangerous….but….As my collegue pointed out, they have to get the truck, suit up, yada yada yada.  WE are the first on scene.  No, the big guns are not to be carried around ala Mexican Army style, it stays in the cruiser, it’s an added weapon should the worst happen.  AND YES ROBN, IT DOES HAPPEN!  That you could think, let alone write on the internet for the world to see a question so idiotic as to ask “When is the last time they needed an effective range beyond 164ft?” is mind boggling!!

See, it’s another level of force.  You start with your own physical force, then you are supposed to increase the force you use appropriately.  In other words, the gun is the last resort.  It’s not there just because it’s pretty, it’s so we can actually use it if necessary. 

Or should we close that barn door after?  That is what this city and this police department is known for, always trying to fix the problem after the fact (hence our issues with snow removal this year).

So, here’s the thing, these links are just a little example, it’s not fear mongering, it’s reality…why don’t you try it for once?  I’ve even done the work for you…it’s simple really…a google search…ask dot com, etc etc

http://tamilhelp.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/timeline-us-shooting-sprees-history-of-school-shootings/

http://articles.courant.com/2010-08-03/news/hc-omar-thornton-workplace-shooting-020100803_1_workplace-shooting-east-hartford-shooting-victims 

Hmmm, wonder if a taser would have helped here or in the case of the next link?  I know, let’s send HewNaven in and find out.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-6364639/War-zone-the-North-Hollywood.html

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=888784&nid=148

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-01-08-gifford-shooting_N.htm

http://www.kxxv.com/global/story.asp?s=11451553

If you are going to jump up on a soapbox, everyone once in a while you should do so from a position of actually knowing what you are talking about.  This was right here in New Haven, this guy was high on drugs, he was intent on killing someone, and in fact WAS shot and still got back up and fired more shots directed at officers IN A SCHOOL PARKING LOT DURING SCHOOL HOURS!  As my daughter would say, “try reading something” (of course, she would say it accompanied with an eye roll as an emphasis!)

http://www.ct.gov/csao/cwp/view.asp?A=1802&Q=304050

If you are serious about wanting to improve your city, you’ll take the time to read these, especially the last one since it is a New Haven incident.

To Schaeffer, the chief has an apartment here to meet the requirements, he’s out of town at least half of the week most weeks leaving one of his assistant chiefs in charge.  Just one of the facts the public is not told about.  And his apartment is not in the hood, not Newhall or Kensington or Congress or Fair Haven, just saying.

To 13%, very few will thank you…but know, you are important, what you do is important.  You put your life on the line every day, and there are some out there who truly appreciate everything you do.  If nothing else, your family, friends and co-workers will respect you and your sacrifices.  And one day, if you are really lucky, some man will come up to you and ask “do you remember me?  you arrested me, it was the best thing that ever happened to me.  I have a good job now, my own house, I’m married and have kids…and it was because you cared, thank you.”

posted by: to bjfair from WOW on February 1, 2011  9:23pm

Why am I sacrificing myself in New Haven?  Because I am a born and raised New Haven resident who wants to help people.  Because there are good people here who are trying to make a living.  These good people who become prey to the people you raised!  They are busy working, raising good hard working kids, putting them through college by working three jobs and not relying on state welfare to support them.  These are the people I work for.  These are the people I sacrifice for.  For the mother who is raising HER boys to be respectful young men who help elderly ladies across the street, who hold a door open for people and who will shovel the sidewalk for an elderly neighbor.  For the mother who is raising her daughters to be ladies, who work hard, expect no hand outs based on the color of their skin, who know they will be pre-judged because they are a minority and a female..but they still stand up and refused to be pushed aside.  They work harder.  I’m sacrificing for my children who I hope will look at me and see someone of character who believes in right and wrong, who believes in honor and loyalty.  If that sounds like I should have music accompanying me, then so be it…I have the respect of my family and of my children…and of myself.

What do you have?

posted by: HewNaven?? on February 2, 2011  9:34am

@WOW

Turn off your TV. The world is not as scary as you make it out to be.

Trying to frighten people by listing some of the worst incidents of violence this country has ever seen does not make your case. In fact, it’s a shameful protocol that has been followed by tyrants throughout history to advance their agenda. If I wanted a grocery store in New Haven I wouldn’t try to convince you by giving you world hunger statistics or linking stories about famines in Africa. I would provide concrete evidence of the need for a grocery store in New Haven. If this were a court case your argument would seem highly dubious given the amount of circumstantial evidence you’ve presented.

With the one piece of direct evidence that you provided, (the Tyshan Napoleon incident), State Attorney Michael Dearington actually states that the restraint of officers involved should be commended and that ultimately it was their restraint which proved the state’s case that Napoleon was killed justifiably by officers. If they had come out firing with bigger guns, as I assume you would have desired, might Dearington’s conclusion have been different? Might he have concluded that they were at fault for his death?

My point is that big guns don’t make good cops. Excellent instincts, rapid perception and processing abilities, and, above all restraint with weapons, makes good cops. The public does not desire cowboys as law enforcement. We desire intelligent, responsive, caring individuals.

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on February 2, 2011  9:39am

The “no snitching” policy is something that criminals are involved in - the average resident pays little attention to it. When someone is caught committing a crime and gives up their accomplices to police or tells the police about another crime someone else committed in order to get a reduced sentence instead of just owning up to what they’ve personally done and are responsible for, then they are snitching. The average citizen that calls the police for help because of crimes happening in their community are not snitching, they are protecting their neighborhoods.
The reason so few murders are solved and the “community doesn’t come forward” is largely because violent crimes occur in the middle of the night and when the streets are deserted, therefore there are very few witnesses. It’s not like people are just sitting in their living rooms looking out the window for criminals at 2 in the morning, most likely, they are in bed and have work in the morning. When the average citizen sees a crime, they report it to police, sometimes after they’ve tried to intervene themselves, which happens a lot in domestic violence calls, and sometimes during robberies citizens will call the police as a last resort after their own efforts have failed. It’s not like law-abiding citizens are harboring criminals and anti-police, they just don’t witness that many crimes because they’re either at work or asleep.

I would prefer to see that Limon be given longer, so that the public can really judge his ability as a police chief. One interpretation is that the police want Limon gone because he’s cracking down on bad policework and corruption. Another possibility is that he’s really just an awful chief that is not doing a good job. Again, I think more time is required to determine this, but I’m not ready to jump on the bandwagon of overwhelming police corruption being the driving factor behind this ‘no confidence’ vote.

posted by: bjfair on February 2, 2011  10:08am

to 13%. sorry if I touched a nerve. Allow me to touch another one. New Haven Police Officer James Evarts inmate # 381443 serving time for DUI.  Another outstanding officer that Limon wanted to fire but Cavalier coddled and kept on our streets. You can post this story and spin it anyway you choose. I’m too ignorant to do it justice.

posted by: IN THE TRENCHES on February 2, 2011  12:56pm

First of all…, Barbara doesn’t have any children. All of them are grown and taking care of their families. NONE of them are roaming the streets with guns shooting and killing people. You can go as far back on Memory lane as you want, it takes NO TRUTH whatsoever from what she is saying about the goings on of this deeply-corrupted police department. The union head Louis “way too” Cavalier, is worse than Rudy Giuliani ever was. He’ll defend anything the police do that hasn’t been caught on camera. For decades he has defended some of the most evil, corrupt, vicious, violent, greedy police officers this state has ever seen. And he’s done it with a straight face and no respect whatsoever to the community that he’s supposed to be serving. ... Barbara’s “ranting” doesn’t change that fact. A “decorated” officer was jailed with a few of his fellow officers for planting drugs AND stealing drugs. He also stole money that he KNEW may have resulted in the death of another and lying about it. Who knows how many families he and his minions(who some of which still roam New Haven) destroyed with his rouge practices. Was Billy White her creation? Our department is suffering internally from it’s misdeeds over the years. Who’s to blame for that? Our Mayor has turned a blind eye to anything a block North of Broadway or outside of the Yale community and closed down the main community center. Whose fault is that? Let’s stop it with the tall tales and false accusations. Neither Barbara OR her ADULT children are roaming the streets of New Haven shooting and killing anyone. In fact several of them are trying to IMPROVE the community. The mere insinuation that any of the problems in NH are of any fault of hers are not only laughable, but ridiculous. They serve no one but those who wish that she would just shut up and let them keep treating people like trash. Look at these comments. Look at all the childish hate. The thought that some of you(If it’s not some lone loon posting under psuedo aliases) have such disdain for someone who’s actually working for the good of this community makes it clear why people like her are around. Wait, wasn’t this article about the Chief again? I almost forgot with all this immature banter. Get ... over your Barbara Fair obsession. It’s kinda creepy ”

posted by: Right on on February 2, 2011  3:39pm

What incentive do police officers have to live in New Haven? High taxes, high crime, high property tax, bad schools, bad public works. Not to mention that a police officers salary will not go very far in New Haven. Murders and drugs are at an all time high. If the police think they are not properly equipped, give them what they need. Does a Doctor go to work with out latex gloves, hoping he won’t need them? It seems like basic equipment the city is lacking. And yes thugs are being protected. And protected well. If you do not want to blame Chief Limon, then look to our Mayor. Our Mayor that we just put back into office, who is just as incompetent.

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on February 2, 2011  4:32pm

Right on,
Crime is at a 35 year low in New Haven. Drugs are less accessible and drug gangs are less organized then they were a generation ago. In 1990, there were a total of 21,000 serious incidents reported to police, which include murder, rape, robbery, assault, etc. In recent years, there have been around 8,500 serious incidents reported to police. Shootings are down significantly compared to a generation ago, and violent crime is essentially on par with the level of the late 1970s. If you’d like the source material for these statistics, I’d be happy to post them, just ask me.
Taxes are high because New Haven was built for a population of around 160,000 residents who were mostly employed and required little from the city in terms of services because the trolley system was privately owned and operated, volunteer civic organizations provided things like health care services, hundreds of storefront business owners looked over the streets requiring little police presence, and the city wasn’t exporting its money to a fleet of suburban workers who pay taxes and shop in other towns, nor was it giving up prime real estate for parking lots for suburban commuters. New Haven’s current population of about 125,000 is far smaller than the population the city was built for, and a larger percentage of the current population is receiving financial aid and not contributing to the tax base, and many volunteer civic organizations have been replaced with tax-exempt non profits which take up store front space were there used to be tax paying businesses in years past. If more middle class residents, like police officers, lived in New Haven, the tax burden would be spread out amongst a larger population, thereby lowering everyones taxes. Crime is high precisely because of a lack of police officers living in New Haven - a block that a police officer lives on is not likely to be a block that thugs mess with. Also, if middle class residents lives in New Haven and supported local businesses, that would provide communities with more jobs, which is a deterrent to crime.

posted by: robn on February 2, 2011  5:22pm

OK,

Just coming back to this thread and noticing WOW’s very uncompelling arguments. Let me break it down for you.

The North Hollywood Shootout is a ridiculous example because its statistically less frequent that full blown wars fought by the US.

In about 99.99% of the incidents WOW references, the shooter either commits suicide, or is shot in close quarters by a uniformed officer or shot by long range SWAT teams who arrive (as do other officers) long after incident has begun. Verdict, a rifle with a range of 550 yards is unnecessary for rank and file unless an officer is daily trying to take down 100s of people two football fields away.

posted by: christopher schaefer on February 2, 2011  5:24pm

well put, Jonathan Hopkins! Over 45% of New Haven’s property is tax-exempt, only about 30% of residential properties are owner-occupied. Suburban statistics don’t even come close to this. One way to eliminate this gross imbalance between city and suburb would be to re-create the type of county government one finds in many other states, & replace most of the state income tax & sales tax with a county income & sales tax. (The au courant term for this is “regionalism”.) Allowing cities to implement a sales tax & income tax simply will drive even more people away. Of course, another (small) way to undo some of the urban/suburban inequity is to require city employees—including police officers—to live in New Haven.

posted by: Right On on February 2, 2011  8:28pm

Jonathan Hopkins statistically you are correct. However in my 8 years as a resident things have declined. In 8 years my taxes have doubled and I have seen ZILCH in return. Take a look at this website, http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ct/new-haven/crime/, and maybe you will see that New Haven is not what it is cracked up to be. New Haven is geared towards the low income residents, very little is done for the working middle class. Scattered sight housing to insure that plenty of low income housing is available, water front condos on front street, special assistance for the non working poor. Please tell me where a police officer could live in a safe neighborhood at a base salary and send their kids to a good public school and be able to afford it in New Haven. We are already starting off on a great foot here with a triple shooting and sub par snow removal.

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on February 3, 2011  9:11am

Right on,
I grew up and live in a neighborhood that has some of the highest property values in New Haven, and many residents would consider it to be a relatively safe area of the city. However, according to the link you posted, my neighborhood has a higher crime rate than Dixwell, West River, southern Fair Haven, Farnam Courts, Dwight, Church Street South, and West Rock. Based on your logic, it would be safer to move into those neighborhoods than into mine, which would be great for police officer wages since housing prices are relatively low in those neighborhoods.
I don’t actually think that map is entirely accurate.However, Dixwell is not the same neighborhood it was in the 1980s and 90s, it does actually have one of the lowest crime rates in the city due in part to the HOPE VI funded redevelopment of the Elm Housing public housing project. Southern Fair Haven has begun to rejuvenate itself along Grand Avenue to become a vibrant immigrant neighborhood in addition to the existing stable community to the east, along the Quinnipiac River. West Rock is in the middle of a large HOPE VI redevelopment project to rebuilt two housing projects, which has contributed to a substantial lowering of the crime rate. West River has seen a lot of recent investment from private individuals and development companies that have restored many of the beautiful buildings in the neighborhood and sparked investment, despite the recent spike in violent crime. Farnam Courts recently opened a new rec center for residents and several years ago it went through a multi-million dollar renovation. Dwight has seen a large influx of graduate students, and new residents, many of whom from East Asian descent, who have helped to stabilize the neighborhood. There actually has been a shift in crime in the city over the last 20 years. My neighborhood has been responsible for 1/3 of the homicides in recent years, including a couple just blocks from my house. However, the perception in most people’s mind still considers my neighborhood safer than the others listed above. Residents in my neighborhood report the quality of life to be far higher than in some other neighborhoods even though the cost of living is higher in my neighborhood, and the crime rate is similar (perhaps higher, although I doubt it).
Reality is quite a bit different from many people’s perceptions, including your own.
With that said, crime is a big problem in this city and in our society, in general and taxes are pretty outrageous. The city was built to support a population of about 160,000 people, the overwhelming majority of whom worked and paid taxes. Today’s population of 125,000, a large portion of which contribute little to the tax base, now has to support a city built for more people and more people who worked. Also, with the increased population of people on State and Federal Aid, the city is required to provide more services than it did just a few generations ago. This problem can begin to be addressed by people voluntarily moving back into city neighborhoods like Dixwell, Dwight and West River. Asking about which neighborhoods are safe to move into for police officers is kinda funny. New Haven’s neighborhoods would be a lot safer if police officers lived in them - one on every street. New Haven isn’t going to magically become a thriving city once again, people actually have to invest in it. Upper State Street used to be a rough area until people invested in it and it became a thriving social center with stores, restaurants and desirable apartments. Grand Avenue was a nightmare for a long time, and it is looking brighter now thanks to the investments of new families. Same could be true of Congress Ave, or Whalley if people would just investing in these areas. With a large middle class population, the tax burden is spread across more people, thereby lowering the amount each person has to pay. Also, more middle class residents would attract more businesses because stores, offices and private service providers go to where the middle class consumers are.
For example, in 1931, there was one retail business for every 8 households in the city of New Haven. In 1913, there were 608 small grocery stores operating within the city. When the middle class began leaving the city after WW2, the retail followed them to the suburbs in the form of strip malls and shopping plazas. This can be reversed if people move back into the city.
As for the schooling, me and my older brothers all attended New Haven Public Schools including Beecher, Edgewood, West Hills Elementary, West Hill Middle, Conte West Hills and Wilbur Cross. I attended from 1994-2007. The largest determining factor in a child’s education is their home life. Peer pressure is a substantial determining factor, but not the primary one. If parents are involved in the child’s education, any school in the city can deliver a college bound and prepared student. If a large number of involved parents send their children to city schools, the results will yield better performance levels and raise the median proficiency of the schools.

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on February 3, 2011  9:15am

Woops, that list of neighborhoods that are “safer” compared to mine, according to that link should read:
West Rock, northern Fair Haven, Hill north, and Newhallville. The same analysis still applies though.

posted by: christopher schaefer on February 3, 2011  10:50am

I realize this discussion is becoming somewhat tangential, but I must agree with Jonathan that the success of a child’s education is absolutely dependent upon parental/guardian involvement. My son also graduated from Wilbur Cross (last year)which is rated as a low-performing school; he now attends Boston Univ. (electrical engineering), with substantial academic-merit scholarships and is thriving. He didn’t even want to go to college, but his jr. year I “coerced” him into visiting local colleges/universities with me. He took one look at the engineering labs at Yale and was hooked.  If his parent (me) hadn’t intervened, who knows what he’d be doing now. Like me, he loves urban life and would never trade it for the bland homogeneity of suburbia.

posted by: Right On on February 3, 2011  1:03pm

Jonathan Hopkins, Do you actually shop for anything on Grand Avenue? And if you have children do or did they attend a New Haven public school? And Wal Mart has killed small business in the area. Who was responsible for allowing Wal Mart to build in New Haven? It is a bad situation all around. I am sorry if you do not agree. It is 2011 not 1935.

posted by: Tom Burns on February 5, 2011  2:36am

I just want to say that Robin and three-fifths and Hopkins and Josiah Brown always get it——in my humble opinion—I am always intrigued by your well thought out blogs—-JAK—-on the other hand should have no voice as everything he say’s has no merit—but it seems to carry anger with it—so if it makes him feel good—maybe he should keep doing what he is doing—I just want to make sure that others on this site know that whatever he say’s has absolutely no merit—we have to get rid of the emotional bloggers in order to have a real conversation—so goodbye JAK—you’re out—Tom

posted by: Tom Burns on February 5, 2011  2:55am

Hey chris—you sound like a great parent—kudos—but who was your son’s guidance counselor?—I know the counselor’s at Cross and they are exceptional—I am sure they played a role at sometime in your son’s education—send them a card—they would appreciate it—but I am sure you already did—and thanks for letting our public schools work with your son—You should be so proud and I am sure you are—All the best—Tom